I Get A Kick Out Of U-Haul
This year, I've been going through the process of divorcing my husband. We're on good terms and share joint custody of our children. The same night we separated, I inadvertently met someone. I was asking for directions to the restroom and ended up spending the evening with him. After staying with him for a few weeks, I just moved in instead of getting my own place. We haven't had sex yet -- I believe in waiting until I'm married -- but I believe I've found the man for me. We've discussed marriage and starting a family, he accepts my relationship with my ex, and understands my commitment to my children. But, everyone's warning me I'm moving too fast. Am I wrong for following my heart?
--Confused In Love
You aren't one of those cheap and easy girls who's all, "He had me at hello." No, with you it was, "He had me at 'Turn left and you should see the ladies' room.'"
Of course, you won't have sex with a guy just because he knows directions to the toilet; you'll only move in with him. This must be a great comfort to your children: "Hey, kiddiepoos...Mommy just shacked up with a near stranger! There, there...no need for tears! After all, Stranger Man and I aren't 'doing it' yet, and don't plan to until we get hitched...which we'll do just as soon as I finish divorcing Daddy!"
Are you wrong for "following (your) heart"? Apparently, you haven't heard, but your heart isn't the organ with the brain cells. I'm guessing you've also been doing some thinking with your left lung and other organs not well-suited to the task, as evidenced by your remark, "He accepts my relationship with my ex, and understands my commitment to my children." And you know this how? Because he said so, the second night, after he made room for your bras and underwear in his sock drawer?
I'm all for a seize-the-day style of living -- if you're a birth control aficionado like me who refers to herself as "Barren!" But, the right to put your needs, whims, and desires first ends the day you push out something that calls you "Mommy." You don't mention where your kids are sleeping, but let's hope "shared custody" doesn't mean they're rooming with you and what's-his-name. Even if they're not, your commitment to your children should include keeping your home environment as stable as possible and not acting like an utter idiot -- and teaching them to act like utter idiots by example.
While you claim "I believe I've found the man for me," you really have little idea what you've found -- except maybe a guy who's desperate and needy enough to commit to living together before the first date. The fact that you're probably equally desperate and needy doesn't make you two a perfect match -- just emotionally unhealthy in the same way. You can't really know somebody until you've spent a serious chunk of time with them. You need to get a place of your own and spend time alone until you find it nuts to say some guy's the guy for you because you have yet to explore all the ways he isn't. With that as your standard, of course this guy seems perfect for you -- as will countless others: "Be a dear, put down that bloody ax and guide me to the ladies' room, will you?"
Please move out, let him help lift the things - just be responsible and get your own place even if its harder. Are you perhaps not facing things like rent and security deposit? the route you are taking is much more expensive in dollars, time, emotions, therapy down the road, medication, child support, court battles... hey buck up and be a woman and a mother.
zapf at June 24, 2008 11:39 PM
Wow, don't mean to be harsh, but how can I avoid it? That woman is a nut. Did her kids have to move in with her and Mr Perfect? This is seriously weird, and she probably didn't suddenly turn odd overnight, she's most likely always been self centered, amoral, shallow and stupid. I would hope her ex sues for custody and wins, but he might have been selected by the same careful process she used to choose mate # 2, and have issues of his own. Poor kids.
Donna Frey at June 24, 2008 11:52 PM
Just think, those kids and countless others raised in the same bizarre manner will grow up one day to become the caretakers of US when we get old and infirmed. How's that for a scarey thought!
Jan at June 25, 2008 4:20 AM
I'd be worried about the kids. I don't know any man who would just let some married woman move in with them and start investing in a relationship with no benefits, unless maybe the children are the benefit. Am I the only one with the word pedophile screaming out at me? Hopefully she's done just a little background work before letting her kids sleep under the same roof as a strange desperate man. An online background check might be worth the thirty bucks, and at very least, pull up your states sex offender registry.
Nicole at June 25, 2008 5:19 AM
ACK. Ew. The same night we separated, I inadvertently met someone. I was asking for directions to the restroom and ended up spending the evening with him.
I'm still having a problem wrapping my pea-sized brain around this one. The very last thing I wanted when my ex and I separated was to get involved the very same night with someone else! This is revolting. "directions to the restroom"? Where the hell was she, a truck stop? Just starting her new job as a pole dancer and didn't know the layout of the club? And where the hell is her brain? (I bet the both of them are Borderline Personality Disordered!) But this is just...ew. This is so NOT good. I agree with Donna Frey. Never mind about being harsh. Poor kids.
Flynne at June 25, 2008 5:24 AM
Pretty damned. I was shuddering reading her letter and am glad Amy let her have it.
Please follow zapf's advise a.s.a.p. If he's half the man, you think he is, he'll understand. If he doesn't understand and does so much as pout, do it even faster and never call him again. Run for your life and get your kids the hell out.
I hate to bring it up too but also question why he's so "understanding" so quick (real men can be but they're not so weirdly eager to replace ex as Dad day to day) about the kids, especially if they are living with him. Pedophiles will date single Moms to get at the kids. Please don't trust your kids to strangers. Again, one that's not a creep will understand that it's gonna take some time before you trust him alone with your kids.
And, hello? Safe-guarding them is the obligation you made to them when you brought them into this world.
Donna at June 25, 2008 5:24 AM
Nicole, I swear we posted simultaneously. Along with Flynne. But yeah obviously I had the same creepy thought. This woman is lacking not only self-protection instincts (bad enough) but she doesn't have any instincts to protect her children. No wonder she's finding men on her way to the ladies'. (Yeah, Flynne, I thought that pretty gross too.)
Donna at June 25, 2008 5:28 AM
Confused in love can't help how she feels. But she can help how she acts. And, as Amy says, this becomes especially important when you have children.
"...the right to put your needs, whims, and desires first ends the day you push out something that calls you "Mommy.""
sofar at June 25, 2008 6:17 AM
Is there a way to hack the letter writer's e-mail, find out her server location, and then save her kids from the dungeon her "boyfriend" is building for them?
I am kidding...well, partly.
Spartee at June 25, 2008 6:45 AM
Bravo! That was a great response!
I'm particularly disturbed that while she talks about things from her perspective, she never mentions how her kids are dealing with the whole thing. And I just love the sanctimonious belief in waiting till they're married to have sex, while seeing nothing amiss with moving in with a guy within weeks of splitting up. (Though a lot of these true-love-waits folks consider sex to mean genital-genital intercourse. Anal and oral and manual don't count to them. So take her assertion of chastity with a grain of lube). Some women can't survive without having a guy--any guy--in their life, and keeping him becomes the main concern, and they'll hold onto him like grim death rather than be alone.
As a side note, I just saw the totally excellent movie The Squid and the Whale. It should be required viewing for anyone with young kids contemplating divorce. It's the best kids-eye-view of an ugly divorce and what-not-to-do that I've ever seen.
Quizzical at June 25, 2008 6:50 AM
Well, at least she's saving her virginity for the marriage bed! (yes I know she's not a virgin) Talk about a fucked up sense of morality. She's basically trying to rationalize her stupid behaviour by saying, 'at least I'm not a slut!', as if sex is the most evil thing in the world.
Dr. Chrissy's diagnosis is: Narcissist (or Sociopath).
Chrissy at June 25, 2008 7:00 AM
I agree with everyone's sentiments and maybe it shouldn't be wrapped in sweet little words, but this woman needs to get into therapy. Separation and divorce are hard on healthy people, but someone with low self-esteem is love starved and directions to the rest room seem to them like destiny setting in. Maybe she married young, maybe she married to get away from her parents. Whatever the reason, she obviously was not ready for marriage and kids, but its a little to late to state the obvious. The sooner she gets into therapy the sooner she will realize her choices are leading her down a path that will make her feel worse about herself not better. She has children to think about. More importantly, she needs to be a positive role model for them.
Kristen at June 25, 2008 7:06 AM
If I was the LW's ex, I'd be in family court filing for a petition for sole custody of these children faster than "mommy" could send out her new address forms.
Lucy at June 25, 2008 8:36 AM
We're all assuming the guy has had a say in this. She doesn't mention much about his feelings, so it's possible he took her home hoping for a one-night stand and she simply never left!
I mean, what kind of guy lets a woman move in with him without having sex and "waiting for marriage"? What a wuss! Either he is more interested in the kids or just doesn't know how to get out of this mess. But something about her letter says to me that she pushed herself into this situation - probably out of fear of being alone - and she's trying to justify it to herself and others by claiming she's in love with him. Yet, she doesn't go on and on about his good qualities or how much he loves and cares for her. She doesn't sound like a woman in love but rather a woman who needs a place to live.
She should find her own place, and if Mr. Passive is still interested, then they can go out on dates and see what happens.
lovlysoul at June 25, 2008 9:56 AM
Can you say "Rebound?"
How about "Serious independence issues?"
The LW probably went straight from living with Mom and Dad to soon-to-be-ex-hubby. And now, forward ho - on to Directions Man. The collective voice here is right; the best way for her to grow up is to do right by her kids. It's amazing how quickly and efficiently responsible parenting will mature a person and strip away insecurities.
Carol at June 25, 2008 11:11 AM
"But, everyone's warning me I'm moving too fast. Am I wrong for following my heart?"
OMG, honey. Listen to everyone - they're right. Nothing wrong with following your heart if its just your heart you're risking, but as others have pointed out here you have other little people to consider. Caution and common-sense have to prevail. Seriously, I initially had a vision of this guy hanging around near the women's john looking for women with "complete twit" tattooed on their foreheads and kiddies in tow.
But lovlysoul has a point: what's in it for this guy??
And honestly, given that you're writing for advice while admitting you've been warned by others, don't you already know deep down that this is not a smart idea?
catspajamas at June 25, 2008 1:10 PM
Maybe he's down with it because he can finally convince his father that he's not gay.
And LW is not right in the head.
brian at June 25, 2008 2:42 PM
People do really nutty things when they are first divorcing. Really nutty. Like this letter-writer. I feel that at least one year must pass before the divorce(e) comes to their senses (male or female), figures out what they really want and who they actually are. It's almost like people released from a dead marriage go out and join a crazy cult for a while. I get that - I was a new divorcee once too and sometimes I still cannot believe the dumb stuff I did.
The problem with that crazy time is when children are involved. You don't have a year to do your wild-oat-sowing and what-the-f* stuff when you have children depending on you. Having children does not preclude having a life of your own. But you still have a responsibility not to expose them to danger, and to be emotionally available to them at least a couple of times a day. Yes, yet again, the fact that you have children means that you cannot completely indulge yourself in distractions. It is seriously annoying and very much in the way of this exciting exploration, I know, but you had kids so that's the way it is until they are 18.
Get your own place, make a few new home traditions with your kids, and have a few home movie nights while they are still confused and not hating you. Because the kids will feel completely abandoned by you soon if they don't already. Come back to the ones who love you - your own babies. They need you. Your new lover will either understand that and give you some space to find yourself, or he won't and you'll find out that he wasn't the right guy.
Whether or not you're having sex with this guy doesn't matter. What matters is how much time you are spending ignoring the pain of your old marriage dissolving and ignoring the boring, drag-you-down responsibilities that you already committed to (the children). Come back to earth, just a little bit, and it'll make all the difference to some people who already love you just the way you are. Fun time with the new guy is exciting, but keep it for Friday and Saturday nights when you have a sitter.
JenniferS at June 25, 2008 3:20 PM
The day you extrude children is the day you stop having license to be nutty.
Amy Alkon at June 25, 2008 3:22 PM
JenniferS, you are very kind and understanding, and right on point.
Pirate Jo at June 25, 2008 4:12 PM
JenniferS: what a perfect reply.
Amy: "extrude children" will now officially replace "give birth" in my vocabulary. Thank you!
catspajamas at June 25, 2008 4:45 PM
"Apparently, you haven't heard, but your heart isn't the organ with the brain cells. I'm guessing you've also been doing some thinking with your left lung and other organs not well-suited to the task..."
This is why I keep coming back every week. You can really write, Amy!
The Other Lily at June 26, 2008 10:34 AM
I've heard of "serial monogamists" before but this is ridiculous!
Incidentally, I'm curious if her definition of "we haven't had sex yet" is similar to Bill Clinton's?
Robert W. at June 26, 2008 10:54 AM
Unfortunately, extruding children can make you nutty...just sayin', having teens myself.
I partially blame our culture for the LW's dilemma. How many romantic movies have we all watched where the couple "meets cute" (although not sure "Where is the ladies room?" applies)? Then, they have some mindboggling deep conversation (scripted by witty writers) during which they feel an overwhelming connection, get drunk, sleep together the first night, get married in Vegas, win the jackpot, etc.
I don't know how old the LW is, but perhaps she's not mature enough to realize that this sort of serendipity doesn't normally occur in real life, only John Cusack movies.
I suppose it could happen that she did indeed meet "the one" going to the ladies room. Some part of me feels unromantic advising her otherwise. But I think it's the whole setting that doesn't make sense right now. She hasn't had enough time alone to know herself, much less what sort of partner she needs. And if she was single, without kids, it might be a cute, romantic story - maybe even a true one -but it seems like she hasn't considered what impact this has on them.
lovlysoul at June 26, 2008 11:06 AM
Yep, that says it all.
I agree that we can't positively say that he isn't "the one" and that she shouldn't give him a chance, but when kids are in the picture risks are out of the question.
Pussnboots at June 26, 2008 11:15 AM
needy enough to commit to living together before the first date.
LOL--that's a great way to phrase it. My ex husband scared off the first two women he dated in this way, but the third married him!
Now, *I* just need to find someone "emotionally unhealthy in the same way" as me! ;-)
Monica at June 26, 2008 1:23 PM
Hmmm...looks like there are two Monicas here. Unfortunately, there can be only one. Swords!
MonicaP at June 26, 2008 1:55 PM
JenniferS - Agreed, kids come first. And those poor kids, I hope the ex gets custody. Assuming that he is at all in his right mind.
Lily at June 26, 2008 1:56 PM
Sadly, this "it's all about me" mentality happens to a lot of people after a divorce. My sister-in-law is one example. Of course, in her mind she deserves to be a self-absorbed ninny, spending herself into debt and sleeping around, because, doesn't anyone understand how she's suffered?
The only reason I rather my nephew be with her is because at least she's not a violent, self-absorbed ninny.
MonicaP at June 26, 2008 2:10 PM
Wait a minute. Something's wrong with this picture. She moved out of her ex's place with no plans whatsoever as to where she was going? She didn't have a lease signed or a deposit put on an apartment? There wasn't someone who was expecting her to become a roommate? And then, she, totally by accident, met a guy that same evening and moved in with him a few hours later? My momma didn't raise no fool. Someone's not being honest about the sequence of events here.
Cousin Dave at June 26, 2008 2:46 PM
Cousin Dave ~~ They could have agreed to live separate lives while sharing the same house, until one or both of them had made new living arrangements. That way, they could take turns watching the kids when the other one wasn't home. It's not unheard of, and could explain the cordial relationship between the LW and her ex. Just one possibility ...
But I do agree that your momma didn't raise no fool!
Pussnboots at June 26, 2008 5:08 PM
"Apparently, you haven't heard, but your heart isn't the organ with the brain cells."
Nice.
If only We didn't all realise and act (or not) on this fact accordingly...
Kimberly at June 26, 2008 6:04 PM
My first response was definatly pedophile, no guy I know would ever go for this one without some seriously bad ulterior motives. There is of course the possibility that he's either to gentle to throw her (I wouldn't go so far as to call him a wuss) out or he's looking for a fag hag. There one selfish but not evil reason he keeps her around without sex, she cooks, cleans, and swallows(sp). Hell if I was single I'd love a cook, maid, and bishop polisher that I don't have to pay for. It wouldn't last but I'd enjoy it until I have to move and get a new identity cause she's nuts.
It is possible that she just happened on the guy when he had decided to settle down. This does happen to some of us, I suspect more than are willing to admit it. However her going for this is the equivalent of selling everything (house and all), then putting your kids in hock with Michael Jackson, going to Las Vegas and putting it all (including the kids) down on double green at the no limit roulette table. Yes there is the slightest possibility you might make millions on that one spin, and the MJ might be traveling that whole time.
LW: Lady what you want is sex not marriage. Get your head wrapped around that fact and your life will become easier. Oh, and drop the dim witted not till marriage crap, your not a virgin and divorce is fround upon morally. So your not pure any way let it go and try living your life.
vlad at June 27, 2008 6:05 AM
Bishop polisher??? lol I think I must've missed a lot of dirty slang when I wasn't single. I learn new words all the time now...it's like I'm 3 again! :)
But I totally disagree that she should have sex with him because she "isn't pure anyway". It's so archaic to view women as pure or impure based on what's been in their vagina.
If she chooses to wait until marriage, I think that's fine. A lot of people now view it as a way to get to know each other better first, which isn't a bad idea. I can't master it - physical chemistry is too important to me, so I could never marry someone I'd hadn't at least taken a test run with - but for those who prefer to wait, I see nothing wrong with it.
But she's definitely defeating the whole "take it slow" idea by moving in with him. That's what's so bizarre...and unfair to him. Unless, as many have pointed out, that by sex she means intercourse and she's giving him other perks.
However, if he's getting NO sexual activity with her, yet he's thrilled to have a woman he barely knows with kids move in with him, then the pedophile possibility does just scream out here. She must consider that.
Don't think he doesn't "look" like a pedophile either. Check his computer history, his sock drawer, every nook and cranny. All pedophiles have child porn. In fact, you can learn more from a guy's porn stash in 10 minutes than you might living with him for 10 years. If he's gay, you'll find that out too.
lovlysoul at June 27, 2008 7:23 AM
"It's so archaic to view women as pure or impure based on what's been in their vagina." I'm not saying that she's pure or not pure based on her not being a virgin. I'm just get the feeling that this is how she views it. Thus I directed the comment to her specifically. To put it in a more neutral tone, "Your world view just got flattened by an artillery barrage, reevaluate everything and proceed with caution."
vlad at June 27, 2008 7:56 AM
Where does it say the kids are with her? Her letter says "I moved in with him," not "We moved in with him." Could it be that the ex still has them? They do have joint custody, after all.
Possibly they're with their dad for now, while she sees how it goes with new BF, and she brings the kids over for visits until everything has been sorted out.
Of course, that would mean she has awesome powers of persuasion over both of these guys, but who's to say she doesn't? Some gals can wangle amazing things out of some guys!
Amy, can you shed any light on where the kids are living at the moment?
Pussnboots at June 27, 2008 9:32 AM
Oh, and I agree with lovlysoul that a little judicious snooping is definitely called for in this situation.
It's not a very nice thing to do, but under the circumstances, where kids are involved, I think it is necessary.
Pussnboots at June 27, 2008 9:37 AM
Bishop polisher -- that's a good one!
Pussnboots at June 27, 2008 9:40 AM
Hmm, about the paedophile thing: I honestly had not considered that. But you could be right. That's another part of this story that doesn't add up. I wonder if she's paying rent? Maybe he views her as just a roommate. But probably not.
Oh, and lovlysoul: You can tell if I'm a paedophile from looking at my socks? (Humor!)
Cousin Dave at June 27, 2008 1:47 PM
Cousin Dave: "You can tell if I'm a paedophile from looking at my socks?"
Maybe, if they've been made into sock puppets. Umm, what does this guy do for a living? Cub Scout leader, grade school teacher, priest ... ?
catspajamas at June 27, 2008 3:12 PM
Hmm, all this pedophilia paranoia strikes me as rather excessive.
Ally at June 28, 2008 9:42 AM
Let's hope it IS just paranoia. There's just so much not right about this whole scenario ... or at least what the LW is revealing about it.
catspajamas at June 28, 2008 12:55 PM
She should be declared legally stupid and her husband should get the kids.
Smarty at June 29, 2008 8:50 PM
Pedophiles strike when nobody is looking. Where kids are concerned, a little paranoia is necessary. It sucks, but it's the world we live in.
Nicole at July 2, 2008 4:39 AM
I hope she's reading all the comments above. And if so, PLEASE, LW, put your children first. Think of your children before you make ANY decisions. Stop and think! You aren't just a woman, you are a mother. You have a big responsibility; it outweighs your need for companionship or a relationship. Oh, this whole thing hurts my Grandma-self.
TerriGram at July 8, 2008 6:35 AM
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