Great Walls Of China
I think my wife of 20 years is trying to kill me. She's insisting we need her late mother's dishes. We have a perfectly good set of everyday dishes, plus plates with ugly hand-painted fruit, other expensive dishes, boxed-up Fiestaware, and fancy china that's been packed away since our wedding. So, we already possess over four dozen plates, and we're just two people, and never have people over. Her mother's dishes are only the latest addition. Our house is exploding with stuff: hundreds of books that will never be read, shelf upon shelf of glassware that's never used, a basement of children's toys that haven't seen the light of day for years, and never will. Is there something imbedded in female DNA compelling women to hoard things? As we acquire more and more stuff, I'm afraid a tipping point will be reached, and my brain will explode.
--Terrified
It must be tempting to give her an ultimatum: "Bring one more teacup into this house, and I'm renting a bull." Unfortunately, she's unlikely to respond by chucking plates at you. And, as you've surely observed, plying her with reason only makes her cling to all that crockery that much more tenaciously. That isn't because she's a woman. Hoarding seems to be a human instinct -- one we share with squirrels. To the squirrels' credit, they appear to have little interest in collecting a plate with what's either a badly painted raspberry or a decorative take on a diseased pancreas.
Hoarders tend to be "perfectionistic and indecisive," says hoarding expert Dr. Randy O. Frost. Because they're afraid of making mistakes, they have difficulty assessing whether they'll have future need for, say, those Richard Nixon-head salt and pepper shakers. Frost explains that saving allows them to avoid making a decision, and to avoid the chance that any decision will be the wrong one. For Frost and his colleagues, mere "hoarding behavior" like your wife's crosses the line into a "clinical" hoarding problem when living spaces can no longer be used as intended, and when there's "significant distress or impairment in functioning." One hoarder's home was so jam-packed that her children had to eat with their plates on their laps on the few uncluttered chairs, and both entrances to the house were blocked. Frost's study didn't say how the woman recognized she had a problem, but I'm guessing it was hard to deny once her kids had to climb out the window to catch the school bus.
Because you and your wife aren't likely to end up like a 43-year-old Bronx man -- trapped for two days under an avalanche of a decade's worth of newspapers, magazines, and junk mail -- she isn't likely to go for the cognitive behavioral therapy that's helped some clinical hoarders. Probably your best appeal comes out of the work of 18th century economist Adam Smith, who noted that sympathy compels people to put others' interests first. Tell her you understand these things are meaningful to her, but you're unhappy and feeling smothered, and ask how can you work together to change that. Don't expect miracles -- like a sudden desire to hold a garage sale. Suggest storage. Cost? Well, as Frost told me, if she sees a tangible price for collecting -- maybe even $200 a month -- she may give that 22nd cutting board a harder look. And, even if storage costs $2,400 a year, maybe that's a bargain price for sanity, marital harmony, and avoiding the need to pay somebody to rob you of pallets of gravy boats and boxes of amputated Barbies while you're at the Olive Garden.
Excellent suggestion. The trick to making it work will be in presenting it positively: she gets to keep collecting, has plenty of space and gets the use of the house as well!
The trick may be the latter - agreeing that all unused articles truly leave the house. Otherwise one might wind up with the worst of both worlds, rather than the best.
bradley13 at April 1, 2009 2:22 AM
I have friends who are hoarders. House is full of USELESS CRAP! Stuffed animals, cutesy knick knacks that are nothing but dust collectors. My rule of thumb: If I don't USE it, I donate it. Also, for every ONE thing that comes into my house, TWO things must GO! I make regular trips to Goodwill. It's very freeing not to be bogged down with junk. But the media keeps pushing us to BUY! BUY! BUY! So people become "Stuff Junkies".
Jan at April 1, 2009 2:28 AM
I kind of sympathise with the LW because I come from a family of collectors (I wouldn't say hoarders because it's not a problem, we just have a tendency to hang on to stuff).
However, asking someone to dump their late mother's dishes is something else - presumably this lady finds them valuable because there are memories connected to them. That's quite something else then "I found these dishes on the flea market and must hang onto them from now on"
Arwen at April 1, 2009 3:23 AM
I wonder if any of that stuff would move on eBay? That way, maybe she could move from being a hoarder of stuff to a purveyor of knick-knackery to junkophiles nationwide!
Of course, we're assuming they have sellable stuff, and she likes having the money better than having the stuff.
old rpm daddy at April 1, 2009 4:21 AM
"Hoarders tend to be "perfectionistic and indecisive,"
That was just what I needed. That *click* when something kicks in. Both my mother and mother-in(out?)-law are hoarders. My mother has dishes, candlesticks and knick-knacks in every corner, my mother-in-law has a house stuffed full of clothes she's never worn, papers bags, string and twist ties. Both are extremely picky individuals and nag everyone to adhere to their standards of what is 'right' or 'tidy' or 'clean' but then they have stuff stogged all over the house, I could never understand it! The 'indecisive' part didn't dawn on me, it was just a big AHA, because they are both huge wafflers, even about what they want for dinner, I just never connected the two.
I feel a little better now :-)
crella at April 1, 2009 5:15 AM
See...this is why I will never live with anyone again! How can you take some one who does this type of shit seriously?
kg at April 1, 2009 5:21 AM
People often have unresolved feelings about the stuff they refuse to get rid of, so they've got to address those, too. Also, they have to "get over themselves." I think they're often afraid to do something that will make them uncomfortable. But tough, sometimes, you have to do things that make you feel that way.
Quizzical at April 1, 2009 6:40 AM
It's easier to let go of hoarded items if you give them away to your friends, or at least to someone who has an immediate need for it. I had a whole pile of dance costumes that I never wore, and instead of trying to sell it and bringing half of it back home, I packed a giant tub and brought it to dance class, saying essentially "Free to good home".
Not only did people end up with things they liked, but I came home with an empty tub, feeling like Santa Claus.
I feel a lot better seeing my hoarded items in use. Plus, those people will all owe me a favor one day... thus I have traded hoarding of items for stockpiling of "goodwill" - which is somewhat perishable but takes up a lot less space around the house.
vi at April 1, 2009 7:27 AM
My grandparents are hoarders. It's to the point where there are trails through their house through the "stuff"... books, "collectables", fabrics and craft items, old records, electronics, various knick-knacks from garage sales, square dancing outfits, dishes... I could go on. They have at least two TVs that don't work (and 2 or 3 that do). They also have several out-buildings that are full of old equipment of various types. It's awful. Mom is over there constantly, trying to get rid of things, and Grandma freaks out about it. One of my uncles and his wife snuck in and cleaned one of the rooms once when the grandparents were on a cruise... and the grandparents were FURIOUS.
The excuses include "We're saving all of this for you all," and "Well, we grew up during the depression." However, Grandpa was born in 1933, so I suspect he hardly remembers the depression, and Grandma's 5 years younger. (Also, it's my understanding that there families were just fine financially during that time period.) We've also told them that we don't want all of their crap.
So, they live on a property that's probably worth over a million dollars (8 acres on a lake), and they've filled it with garbage. (Oh, the garage is full, too.)
When they pass, or become incapacitated, this is going to be an absolute nightmare.
ahw at April 1, 2009 7:57 AM
Make sure the house is insured and burn it down. Start over.
David at April 1, 2009 8:12 AM
Make sure the house is insured and burn it down. Start over
David H at April 1, 2009 8:13 AM
Correction: "it's my understanding that THEIR families..." Improper use of "there/their/they're" irritates me almost as much as improper apostrophe use. Sorry.
ahw at April 1, 2009 9:24 AM
The problem is definitely not limited to women. I've seen male hoarders, and the problem there is that while women might hoard magazines and knick-knacks, men will hoard broken-down cars and un-seaworthy boats, which becomes a bigger problem faster. ;)
Cousin Dave at April 1, 2009 10:10 AM
It's just a blog, ahw..not a formal document...so you won't be fined or anything. Besides, half of us are at work and fucking off so we gotta be quick...wink!
kg at April 1, 2009 10:12 AM
I am a recovering hoarder from a family of compulsive hoarders. My mother and grandmother were VERY perfectionist people, very needing-to-control, but rather than being indecisive, they chose to hoard all the stuff, wanting to "keep it in the family," to the point where my brother and I, as children, always had closets full of dead relatives' clothing.
It took me a long time to figure out that my family is a little odd. ;)
Melissa G at April 1, 2009 11:22 AM
My mother-in-law was such a huge hoarder, she rented a storage unit even though she lived alone. After she died, my husband and I found out that 90% of the stuff she saved was literally garbage. Boxes of losing lottery tickets, every bill she ever paid, every magazine she ever read. And all of her items of actual value, like family photos, was mixed right in to the mess. She was a very nice lady and certainly didn't appear to be crazy.
Karen at April 1, 2009 11:24 AM
Oh! I was going to suggest this to the LW--
A mother's dishes can hold a special significance in the heart of a daughter. Use this to your advantage! :) Tell her you recognize that this set of dishes is special to her, and that it deserves to have an honored place in your home-- which will only be possible if you donate all that Fiestaware to charity. In fact, perhaps by doing the same with some of the unused glassware, you might be able to put Mother's dishes on display in a china cabinet? This might be a great impetus that gets the hoarder to unclench on some of the less-valued things in her life, and help her to recognize that more space equals more honor for the things that really matter to her. You, for instance. ;)
Melissa G at April 1, 2009 11:28 AM
My dad hoarded newspapers in the basement and my mom hoards (to this day) the same kind of knick knack crap, dishes, cutlery, etc. that is never used. They're both perfectionistic wafflers, only now, because they're both 80, they're CURMUDGEONS in a house packed full of crap.
Chrissy at April 1, 2009 11:38 AM
Recently I moved to a new address. I found that I didn't have time to get rid of all the junk that accumulated during nearly 12 years in my former apartment. Now I have things like blue jean legs from jeans that I turned into cutoffs, a plastic mug from the Ouray (CO) Oktoberfest in 2002, boxes with 20+ years worth of letters (some with just newspaper clippings), and so on.
I mean to sort through it someday...
Thomas Fullery at April 1, 2009 11:47 AM
A good friend of mine's mom is a hoarder. She needed to rent the house next door to live in, because her house was too full of newspapers she "collected." In high school, all my friends sports team-mates hid their pr0n in my friend's garage, under the piles of "collected" magazines. For all I know, it's still there.
Personally, if it were my mom, I'd probably tell the fire dept. and force something to be done. My friend and his sibs are nicer than me.
Janet C at April 1, 2009 12:00 PM
Hey Thomas, do I understand that you have all this stuff still neatly packed in moving boxes? And can't quite bear the thought of tossing it? Then I have a suggestion for you - works for me, anyhow:
First, pull out anything genuinely valuable, like jewelry, birth certificates, etc.
Then: put the boxes somewhere out of the way. Label them with a date that seems comfortably far in the future - say, five years from now - and write it on the boxes. Make a pact with yourself: anything still in those boxes when the date rolls around gets tossed, without (important) even looking in the box.
The point is: anything you haven't needed or missed for years won't be missed if it is simply gone. I've gone through whole series of boxes like this. I periodically spot new stacks of stuff I'm "saving" and pack up a few more...
I'll never be neat, but this saves me from drowning in gumpf...
bradley13 at April 1, 2009 12:06 PM
A mother's china probably has enough sentimental value to warrant some kind of exception to thinking "it's just more crap". But that doesn't mean that the wife can just move in another dozen place settings! If Mom's china is that important, something else needs to go (e.g. the Fiestaware or the ugly hand-painted fruit dishes).
People get carried away "collecting". If you don't draw the line somewhere, your home becomes a museum of clutter. One thing in, one thing out, is my rule.
My mother-in-law is a hoarder to the point of having additional refrigerators and freezers in her garage. They are have to be duct-taped shut because they are so full. She lives alone at 78 and believe me, she'll never eat all that food. We will need haz-mat suits to clean out her house when she dies.
There are reasonable exceptions for the settlement of estates, but even that has to have a "clean and tidy" deadline.
The real key here is to get the wife to have some empathy and understanding for how upsetting the mess is to her husband. If she can see how it's upsetting him, maybe she can sacrifice a few things in the name of love. A little marriage counseling might go a long way if she keeps hoarding.
JenniferS at April 1, 2009 2:26 PM
'They also have several out-buildings that are full of old equipment of various types.'
'My mother-in-law is a hoarder to the point of having additional refrigerators and freezers in her garage. They are have to be duct-taped shut because they are so full. She lives alone at 78 and believe me, she'll never eat all that food. We will need haz-mat suits to clean out her house when she dies.'
Ditto here. MIL moved near us, but before that she lived in the country in a typical Japanese house with a kura(storage building) attached. She moved into a medium-sized house near us so all that stuff couldn't come here. So, she has the kura and three garages (that she was renting to people for income) stuffed to the rafters in the country that we'll have to go through. They are filled with wondrous things like electric blankets from the 60s that don't work, rice cookers from the era they didn't have a 'keep warm' function, 13 sets of funeral cloths ( I told her that seemed distinctly unlucky, why not get rid of some? No go), extra roof tiles (just in case)and all sorts of indescribable JUNK.
When she moved she needed two ten-ton trucks because partway through I gave up the fight. I just couldn't stand the constant wails of 'I n-e-e-e-e-e-e-d th-a-a-a-a-at!!!' It was full tantrum mode. She has brought miniskirts with her she wore in the 60s. She has two huge refrigerators full. I went through them (ack) last year when she was hospitalized (diabetes, not food poisoning) and some of the stuff was 10 years out of code. She doesn't eat any of it, it makes her feel safe to see it there.
We have a helluva job ahead of us when she goes, I shudder to think about it.
Quick fix if you see something spoiled that you think they're still considering eating-- 'Hey, can I take that home? I'll use it up for you' works like a charm, whisk it out her door and into your trash can! Handy hint from the daughter of another hoarder.
crella at April 1, 2009 4:03 PM
It took me a long time to figure out that my family is a little odd.
At my wedding, a friend of mine told me, "your in-laws will make your family look normal."
And, yes, he was right.
Conan the Grammarian at April 1, 2009 4:46 PM
When all of these hoarders finally 'depart,' get a Dumpster. Oh and don't think everything just gets the heave ho. Carefully thumb through old magazines, books and other trash for bookmarks pretending to be cold hard cash...
I told my parents that the best inheritance I could ever hope for is for them to spend all of their money and downsize to two rooms.
The Hag at April 1, 2009 8:18 PM
Yes, check everything, that's a great tip...hoarders put valuables away in the strangest places. I found a portrait of MIL when she was 15 by a Japanese artist, Miki Suizan in a frame in back of a picture of the local dam. Ruby rings in her glucose meter case, just strange. You have to go through with a fine-toothed comb, which makes it even more fun ;-)
crella at April 1, 2009 11:05 PM
I'm not sure if I agree with the assessment that hoarding is about perfectionism and indecision. For some people it probably is. But I also know that for the generation of my grandparents (young European adults in the second world war) it had/has a lot to do with a sense of safety. They experienced scarcidy for a lot of things including food, and that feeling of unsafety about if they could provide for themselves and their families has stayed with them. So now they hoard, because it gives them a sense of reassurance to have all those things in reserve, because they might not be available from outside sources later. Hence not just saving stuff, but often also food.
That is also something that can be passed along the generations - my mother and aunt ('46 and '48) were born in the lean years, and most importantly, raised by people who had basically been (to a degree) traumatised by the war and still carried that same sense of 'waste nothing, finish your plate, there might not be anything tomorrow'. Both my mother and aunt have large houses full of stuff, and freezers full too. Not pathologically so, but.. it'd be a hell of a task to move them to a smaller living space.
Even I catch myself stuffing my freezer full of food despite practically living on top of a supermarket. I've grown better about it, but I still catch myself occasionally..
Arwen at April 2, 2009 3:59 AM
My husband hoards his electronics equipment. He learned this behavior from his mom. She hoarded out of depression though after his dad died. When she died and we had to clean out her house, it was a nightmare. It was a solid year of weekend cleaning before we could put the house on the market. She had three storage sheds full of stuff. She never got rid of any of her refrigerators. She had all kinds of stuff crammed into them. I'm trying my best not to let my husband get that bad. Fortunately, we have moved a lot due to his career and I have gotten rid of a lot of stuff each time we moved.
PJ at April 2, 2009 5:14 AM
@ Arwen,
I agree that living through a major war has a lot to do with that mindset in some people. My grandmother lived through the Depression and WWII, and I never gave her history a second thought re the hoarding, until a friend's mom married a Vietnam vet who was perfectly normal... except for a habit of hiding canned food around the house.
Melissa G at April 2, 2009 6:52 AM
as far as attaching sentimental value to objects, you can do that with anything, not just a late relative's dishes. as a child, i used to do it with pens. in the end, everything is something that will at some point be thrown out, burned, put into landfills. a needless use of energy and resources.
i think i mostly got over it when i moved to another country and had to pack everything into what i could take with me on the plane. that was five years ago, and the longer i'm here the less the things i had over there have any meaning to me.
i moved, as a matter of fact, to china, and being here has opened my eyes to just how much americans tend to hoard. it never ceases to amaze me when i watch people "move in" here: unless they're part of the nouveau riche, they usually have one small suitcase with them. maybe some other belongings in plastic bags. not giant u-hauls of stuff. is it third-world poverty, or not having been exposed to a culture of marketing that equates consumption with personal worth?
one other possibly relevant point: i live in sichuan, not far from where an 8.0 magnitude earthquake struck last may. in addition to the 80,000 people who lost their lives, over 5 million people lost their homes and other belongings. for a few months afterward, there was a mass drive to collect clothes, tents, blankets, etc. it was a countrywide movement, but being so close to the epicenter, i saw much of the activity. this kind of giving can also get you to separate what you need from what you want and what's just around cluttering your space. i don't expect (and i certainly would hope there isn't) a tragedy of such scale any time in the u.s. or anywhere else for that matter, but involvement in organizations that donate to people who could use unneeded stuff might be a step in the right direction.
jane at April 2, 2009 8:08 AM
One of my favorite shoes is "Clean House" on the Style Network. The clean house crew goes into a cluttered home and drags all the junk out for a yard sale. They use the proceeds to redesign 3 rooms. The results are amazing. If LW can get his wife interested in this show, she might be inspired.
gretchen at April 2, 2009 9:46 AM
AHW said "When they pass, or become incapacitated, this is going to be an absolute nightmare."
It can be fun, too. My mom did this to us. She had little stickers on everything to indicate the lucky recipient of her junk. When she died, my siblings and a big pile of nieces/nephews got together and looked over the debris, took the few things that we wanted and set them aside, then spent a week cleaning, sorting, drinking big pitchers of sangria and eating mountains of fruit and cheese, ordering in chinese and pizza, dancing, singing, and getting re-aquainted. There were no fights over the stuff, just a lot of laughs and shared memories. At the end of the week we had a three day "estate sale" and sold everything cheap - whatever someone offered we took. Of all that detritus, we ended up hauling one small pickup truck load to the dump and a large box of possibly useful stuff to a donation site. We made $5000 that weekend, not a fortune but enough to split and have a bit of fun with, but more important was the wealth of memories and laughs we put in the bank. It was an absolute blast and we still talk about it three years later. The best story is about a bucket of dirt from an old plant pot that sold for $0.25. We actually sold some of her dirt! See, there are other pack rats out there who will be very willing to take some of that junk off your hands.
Sometimes you just have to take the eccentricities of your relatives and do the best you can with them. Love them, try to help them if you can, and clean out the mess when they leave. Most of all though, love them. They leave all too soon. As much of a pack rat as my mom was, I wish the mess was still there.
It's all in how you decide to handle it.
Laurie at April 2, 2009 10:35 AM
I am a recovering hoarder. After much practice, it feels incredibly good to throw things out, or better yet, Freecycle them. (If you haven't heard of Freecycling, look it up.)
Suggest to the hoarder that they index the collection, because it would be terrible if their next of kin were unable to find that May 1947 National Geographic or wasn't sure which dishes came from which ancestor. The indexing process itself can bring hours (or years) of pleasure to a hoarder, and takes time that might otherwise be spent accumulating additional stuff. The hoarder might want to use a computer + barcode scanner to track everything, or use a card catalog to avoid data format obsolescence.
Hoarding to the point of blocking stairs and doors is dangerous, and it's much easier to clean a room that is less cluttered. Suggest building a climate controlled outbuilding full of shelves, or converting a garage (their side first) or basement into a storage room. There are some spiffy storage cabinets on wheels these days that can be shoved together when not in use, and cabinets that are numbered lend themselves well to indexing.
Pseudonym at April 2, 2009 11:02 AM
I recently came across this really good article on the AARP website that deals with a lot of the issues of why people can't let go of things. The author is going through a similar situation with her older parents.
http://www.aarpmagazine.org/lifestyle/conquer_clutter.html
Among the insightful things it had to say:
"What I didn’t understand until it was much too late was that the objects going out the door were not objects at all. Often the items that had been used the least were the hardest to throw out, symbolizing as they did not fond memory but never-tapped potential. They were, as my father said while I hauled off a nearly new portable gas grill, “artifacts of unused life.”
According to professional organizer Jeanne Smith, her older clients often have a connection with their possessions that other family members can’t fathom. “They’re going through a life-review process and a grieving process,” she says. “They’re reliving 20 years of their lives through that coffee cup.”"
I had no idea but there is a National Association of Senior Move Managers
who are professionals who help older people go through things in preparation for a move to a smaller living space (although I doubt they'd turn down a job just because it didn't involved an imminent move). The article was saying that often it is easier for a stranger to help with this rather than an adult child of the person.
One of the suggestions was to take photos of hard to part with objects so the memory can be preserved and that makes it easier to let go.
Kathleen at April 2, 2009 1:58 PM
My dad's side of the family (on his mother's side) was a bunch of compulsive hoarders. They have all passed on now, but were rural Iowa farm people.
Grandma's sister passed away first, when I was about ten, and we went out to her little place not far from Chariton, Iowa and cleaned out her house. The place had no electricity or running water, and the house was peeling tarpaper. It was so crammed with crap there were only three rooms you could reach by a narrow walking path and three more that were completely unaccessible. But I remember her as a really cool, sweet old lady with a nice dog. (I hope I'm one too someday.) She was extremely independent and took care of a whole bunch of livestock (chickens, cows, and sheep) by herself. Technology never touched that place. She did everything using manual tools from the 1800s. I'd cry like a girl without a hot shower, but I also think she was lucky to die out there in her own place on her own terms, and not in a nursing home.
When we went through the place, it was so filthy we blew brown snot for days. Most of it was simply garbage, and went on a burn pile. But there were treasures, like 80 years worth of postage stamps. This spurred a stamp collecting hobby between my brother and I, getting my mom involved, for several months. My brother and I found a hand-crank corn husker out in the barn, along with a bunch of bright yellow ears of corn, and that thing really cranked. She must have kept it sharp. To a couple of kids the place was as much fun as a pirate ship.
That said, I'm a pirate who likes a little closet space.
Pirate Jo at April 2, 2009 4:16 PM
I'm a real anti-"stuff" person, myself.
"i moved, as a matter of fact, to china, and being here has opened my eyes to just how much americans tend to hoard"
Yeah, which also leads to people buying houses much bigger than they need. We need a bigger place", they decry, when in fact they're just clinging to loads of unnecessary junk as if their lives depended on it. Or conversely they buy big, empty houses, and then feel like they need to "fill all that space" with loads of unnecessary stuff. I saw this first hand when I rented out a spare room last year; every time I started feeling the place was cluttered, I would chuck out stuff and make some space. No sooner would I make some space, than some item of crap would magically appear to fill it. I'd feel 'cluttered in' and make more space. He'd fill it (never mind that he was in serious debt :/). Within 6 months my place was getting highly cluttered, he was filling spaces I never knew I had. I realised that no matter how much space this guy has, it will never ever be enough - I'm sure that in 15 years time, he'll have a huge house, cluttered to the brim, and be complaining that it's too small. It's some kind of compulsive space-filling, perhaps to fill some other void in one's life, I don't know. Like the fact that people hardly have kids anymore, maybe.
DavidJ at April 2, 2009 4:40 PM
"It's some kind of compulsive space-filling, perhaps to fill some other void in one's life, I don't know. Like the fact that people hardly have kids anymore, maybe."
You think people have stuff because they don't have kids?
Pirate Jo at April 2, 2009 5:24 PM
"It's some kind of compulsive space-filling, perhaps to fill some other void in one's life, I don't know. Like the fact that people hardly have kids anymore, maybe."
Interesting assumption -- in the way that when my dad tells me that the guy down the block probably died because he hasn't see him in awhile is interesting but probably wrong.
MonicaP at April 2, 2009 7:01 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2009/04/great-walls-of.html#comment-1641407">comment from Pirate JoIn the literature, people who hoard have children and grandchildren. This hoarder has a number of children, all grown.
Amy Alkon at April 2, 2009 9:08 PM
My great grandmother was a hoarder, durring the first day of cleanong out her house they found some checks, by the time they were done cleaning the place they had found nearly $20,000 in cash and uncashed checks
I try not to hoard, but I must confess to having half a storage shed full of boxes of books I have read in years
lujlp at April 3, 2009 5:02 AM
And don't forget this classic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac
Ronnie at April 3, 2009 6:52 AM
I had to clear out a garage/workshop of 20 years of accumulated tools and stuff. I had always understood that when the time came it would all go. I did a "help yourself and donate to charity" day. A small amount of stuff went to a few people, but 3 trailers full went to a couple of compulsive hoarders. I had second thoughts about this, but hey, they're grown up and can decide for themselves. Raised £125.
I also ran a "free stuff" stall for a while. It was a neat idea, but again, the problem was that hoarders came and couldn't resist the free stuff. It was obvious who they were - eventually a carer came and said not to let them have any more.
Stuff is addictive to some people. We need Stuff Anonymous.
Norman at April 3, 2009 8:22 AM
I doubt that lack of family or kids has anything to do with it. My grandparents (mentioned above) have six kids, eight grandchildren, and two great-grandchildren.
I've heard somewhere that hoarding behavior is a type of mental illness, but I wouldn't really know. I do know that my great-grandparents were NOT hoarders, and neither is Mom or any of her siblings.
I find that the easiest way to keep crap from accumulating is to pretend like you're moving every few years. There's nothing like a move to inspire you to throw out all of the stuff you're not using, rather than having to pack it. Of course, that only works if you're not a hoarder.
ahw at April 3, 2009 9:07 AM
"You think people have stuff because they don't have kids?"
Keep in mind today's definition of "having kids" is different to what it used to be. Nowadays if you have four kids people think it's a lot. My grandmother was one of 13 kids, and in her time this was normal and common ... now when you have 13 kids, you don't get round to hoarding much stuff and have to be frugal, because you're focusing on the needs of all those kids ... when you only have two or three kids, and plenty of excess money lying around, what else do you do but spend it on loads of junk. People also have kids far later - instead of starting at 20, they start at 30 now - giving them a decade of earning money, with nothing and nobody to spend it on but themselves.
On the other hand, you also get a lot of people who think that a fancy house full of stuff *is* what kids need to be happy.
DavidJ at April 3, 2009 5:03 PM
"What I didn’t understand until it was much too late was that the objects going out the door were not objects at all. Often the items that had been used the least were the hardest to throw out, symbolizing as they did not fond memory but never-tapped potential."
Now I understand another aspect of this. This has been a great thread for me. I appreciate everyone's posts, they've given me food for thought and more understanding of this behavior, thanks everyone.
crella at April 3, 2009 11:57 PM
As Cousin Dave said, it's not a woman thing. I hang onto everything I might conceivably want someday (like clothes that I could wear if I get so sick that I lose 50 pounds). My wife, on the other hand, will toss anything she can't see a use for in the next week.
Rex Little at April 4, 2009 10:36 PM
My mom and her side of the family were all compulsive hoarders. She never got rid of anything, and it drove my dad (who wasn't a hoarder, thank goodness) up the freakin' wall!
When they both passed away a decade ago, my brother and I had the horrid task of dealing with this nightmare. We had to painstakingly sort thru all of it to separate the keepsakes (photos,documents,etc.) from all the junk mixed in with it. It took us 3 years (I'm not exaggerating) to finally finish sorting, selling, and tossing all their belongings...an ordeal I wouldn't inflict on my worst enemy.
Some final advice: If you truly love your non-hoarding spouse and/or children, prove it by dealing with your hoards NOW! I promise you won't miss any of it.
PTR at April 5, 2009 4:04 PM
"I've heard somewhere that hoarding behavior is a type of mental illness, but I wouldn't really know."
Hoarding disorder is a class of obsessive-compulsive disorder. It is frequently passed from generation to generation, though it's difficult to tell whether that's physiological or psychological. It could be a brain hard-wiring thing. But, if you grow up in a household where you're constantly exposed to people who assign "value" to useless things, you may start to do so yourself. Hence the confusion over nature/nurture as the cause.
I am the child and grandchild of clinical hoarders who refuse to accept help. Though I try my darndest to keep the clutter away (with mostly good results), I still feel a little pang of guilt every time I drop something in the Goodwill bin or toss something that is far beyond additional use. Because of my personal experience, I tend to think hoarding is psychologically transmitted, in my case through an emphasis on "getting the value out of things." Recognizing the disposition to the behavior and taking steps to avoid it are crucial for people close to hoarders.
Just please be aware, if you are close with hoarders, that in many cases they can't help it on their own. CBT and medication have both shown success in dealing with hoarding, but simply throwing their stuff away or yelling at them will cause great anxiety that may worsen the problem. Depression, loneliness, and a sense of helplessness can also exacerbate hoarding tendencies. Don't be afraid to involve a professional, and have some compassion!
dachare at April 6, 2009 10:54 AM
There was a time in mylifewen Iwas really really depresed and acquired and hoarded a huge amount of stuff. It got hard to move around in my place. Then I realized I was becoming a prisoner of stuff. Fortunately, I realized, ebay and flea markets work both ways. I got a lot of stuff because I enjoyed some of the interactions invlved in getting it. It is just as much if not more fun, though a slower process, of selling it. If you have a lot of stuff, cull out some interesting stuff you can part with, and set up a table at a flea mart. If it does not sell, after a few wekends, make the choice if it is ebay or goodwill material or something that can be regifted.
I have much more space, have recycled stuff into cash or traded it in for stuff that is smaller volume and really needsome, or picked up a lot of tax deductions (with good records and documentation you can get a lot ofstuff past the IRS), and I have kept myself busy and entertained.
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Philadelphia SEO at February 5, 2010 2:26 AM
I am a hoarder. My tiny place is often so cluttered I am in danger of injuring myself. The comment about unrealized potential was a huge eye-opener for me. Most of the stuff I have because I intend to "do something with it" someday (eleven computers, for instance). When my parents died (and they were only mild hoarders and their house was plenty big enough to hold it all - mostly in the basement), my brother bought the house from the estate - and after a couple of years, he moved all the "stuff" to a warehouse. For the next several years, I was the only kid who "visited" the stuff and finally I just shipped it to my place intending to "do something with it" - make DVDs of the photo albums, scan letters and articles, etc. Now my clutter is worse than ever. But occasionally I come across a gem that my whole extended family is excited about when I share it with them. I fear for my sister if something happens to me - she won't be able to throw away any of my STUFF and that is my motivating factor to change - to protect HER.
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