When Hairy Palms Met Sally
I checked my boyfriend's online history (okay, invaded his privacy) and saw he'd been looking up porn all day yesterday and the day before while home with the flu. I freaked! We'd talked about porn before. He said he watched it in his younger days, but didn't anymore, so I was surprised. I confronted him, and he said he'd been bored and curious, but doesn't watch porn regularly. I don't know whether I believe him. I've heard people get addicted to porn. Beyond that, there are the unrealistic images of women. The fact that he initially lied makes me worry he has a problem.
--Smut Patrol
You thought you'd come home, ask what your poor sick bunny did all day, and learn that he was weak and feverish, but not too weak and feverish to spend eight hours straight picking out a ring and poring over all the great wedding gifts on Tiffany's website. Whoops...it seems he was actually on the other Tiffany's site -- watching and rewatching "Tiffany Gives Heidi Her Sponge Bath."
Yeah, right...he only watched porn in his "younger days" -- like last week, when he was approximately five days younger. And then, wouldn't you know it, he got "bored and curious," as in, "Yawn...I wonder what really enormous fake breasts look like." Bored? Sure. Curious? Right. What is he, an 8-year-old who has yet to hack through the parental controls on Mommy's laptop?
Actually, he's a man, with male sexuality, which evolved to be highly visual and variety-driven, probably because the more indiscriminate sex a guy had, the more likely he was to pass on his genes. Because women get pregnant and saddled with the kids, they evolved to be choosy and seek men who show a willingness to commit. Erotica targeted to each sex plays out along these lines, notes evolutionary psychologist Catherine Salmon. While men have nudie porn, women have commitment porn -- the romance novel -- with equally "unrealistic images" of male behavior. Yet, you don't see men picketing the Harlequin rack at the grocery store, complaining that women will expect a dark, imposing prince to ride up on a white horse, pledge his everlasting love (while revealing some seriously ripped abs), and carry them back to his castle.
If you want the truth about porn, ask your boyfriend whether he prefers naughty nurses to other naked professionals. Because male and female sexual psychologies are largely at odds, men hide their porn consumption while women hide their more female-centric pastimes -- like loading their photo and their boyfriend's into morphthing.com to see what the children would look like. Porn, like anything that rings bells in the brain's pleasure center, can be addictive, but suspecting the guy's addicted merely because he watches it is like suspecting he's addicted to food because he ate a double cheeseburger.
Okay, so he watched porn for two days straight while home with the flu. If he's always out with "the flu," yet his only symptoms are a really bad case of carpal tunnel and being too weak to have sex with you, that's when you start worrying. Regardless, you don't get to paw through his Internet history. Figure out whether you're getting your needs met, and if you aren't, tell him, and see whether he'll do something to change that. Remember, there are men who never look at porn. You'll find them where all the rapists are rich and handsome and where nobody ever gets knocked up by the bus driver; in other words, wherever books like Harlequin's "Billionaire Prince, Pregnant Mistress" and "Pregnant with the Billionaire's Baby" are sold.
Amy--ingenious puns as usual. You have a knack for coming up with topics for debate. However, the "but teh womenz can haz romance novels!" argument is really tired. I can think of no reading material more mind-numbing than a romance novel, and given the choice between reading IKEA instructions for 6 hours and reading a romance novel for one, I would definitely pick the former. Many more male friends with whom I am acquainted look at porn, as compared to the 1 woman friend whom I know reads romance novels (I've helped both pack and/or seen their apartments, so if the women do read these, they must be very careful-- they must burn the copies after reading or something). No Fabio or Pitt for me and my friends--instead of them, give us a kind man who can support himself at a basic level, likes us, and isn't addicted to anything any day. But some of the men around here make statements that they consider themselves entitled to supermodels...
A reader at July 22, 2009 2:12 AM
i agree with the above poster that there seem to be a lot of men who (without any apparent justification) make statements indicating they consider themselves entitled to supermodels but i don't think that's so much a result of porn and the bodies presented there (which, in fact, in many ways often seem to go against beauty standards presented in mainstream media) as it is a general symptom of living in a patriarchal society as well as an individualistic, consumer-oriented society in we're socialized to never be satisfied with what we can get--the "i deserve more/better" phenomenon comes into play in many spheres: career, material goods, income, and relationships.
jane at July 22, 2009 2:51 AM
Point of order, we do not live in a patriarichal society.
If we did I'd have gotten a job at as a manager at the local chilis just so I could sleep with all the waitresses
lujlp at July 22, 2009 3:18 AM
Also Amy, every paper I've seen your colum in runs two letters, I'm curious as to why you only post one of them at a time in this section
lujlp at July 22, 2009 3:20 AM
Porn, like anything that rings bells in the brain's pleasure center, can be addictive...
True. And like other addictions, there are no clear lines you can see when it crosses over from harmless to troublesome to harmful. Without knowing the guy, I might rate a two-day porn binge as somewhat more than troubling.
Aunt Judie at July 22, 2009 3:21 AM
"I might rate a two-day porn binge as somewhat more than troubling."
You must never fantasize about sex? Masterbate? Imagine in your mind sexual situations?
Aunt Prudie, get a life. And after you do that, learn to fuck so that when your man does look at porn, you won't care in the least because, like me, you will be certain your lovin' BEATS a two day binge on Brokeback Betty any day.
Where are these people coming from I wonder? Some wymyn's movement site? I love how they act so intellectually superior, until it deals with sex....then they are instantly turned into mealy-mouthed victims with anger management issues.
kg at July 22, 2009 5:38 AM
Amy thanks for pointing out to this woman that men are visual creatures. It seems grown women are shocked by this and shouldn't be.
Women somehow think their men, are well more like women. Women need to stop buying the feminist crap about men and women being the same.
The next time you are home sick and start looking at fashion magazines or people magazine can he throw a fit?
Also, If you are being kind and taking care of your man there is less likely hood he will look elsewhere.
David M. at July 22, 2009 6:18 AM
Ms. Alkon's advice is cool water to a parched world. Drink deep draughts, readers.
Anyway, "The fact that he initially lied makes me worry he has a problem."
Amy did not make it clear enough, letterwriter. His problem is you, a woman who does not understand or accept boyfriend's sexuality. Deal with YOUR issues, lady, rather than focusing on him as a dodge.
My advice: quit being his goddam prison guard. He already likely feels hounded and under attack after your first overreaction. (Yes, overreaction.) If you want to keep this guy around, don't make it worse with more interrogation and guilting.
Whatever YOUR anxieties and hang ups are regarding porn, accept the fact that YOUR anxieties and hang ups are YOUR problem, not his. Leave him out of it. If you simply cannot accept that your guy likes looking at naked women in porn, take Amy's suggestion and go find yourself some guy who will not look at pictures of naked women. But she is wrong in one regard: you will find them in gay bars all across America. (A few such porn-free guys may congregate in church basements too, for men's bible groups, but those guys are often closeted versions of the gay bar variety.)
Women like the LW and a few posters, who have no familiarity with being male, want to define norms for male sexuality. Almost cruelly, however, such gals typically identify behavior that is universally common among heterosexual men--looking at fertile naked women--as an "addiction" or deviant or wrong.
Nope. Means a man is straight and has a sex drive. Whether they are 13 or 83, men like looking at fertile naked women. Get. Used. To. It. Ladies.
To "a reader" who thinks men are more into porn than women are into romance novels, such things are hard to compare. But I would take note of chick flicks when thinking about the matter. If not for women, no such movies would be made.
Porn probably helps make overweight, pimply, broke guys think they can have sex with super-horny supermodels. Much like chick flicks make overweight, pimply, sexless women think a financially secure man desiring nearly-sexless monogamy will fall madly in love with them forever and ever, amen. To my mind, Women who can recite lines from "Sleepless in Seattle" are the same as guys who can tell you their favorite porn flick scenes.
Spartee at July 22, 2009 6:58 AM
The only time I get mad when BF looks at porn online is if he leaves an incomplete download on the computer and I have to delete it! lol! Doesn't happen often, but it is a pain in the ass.
Also, If you are being kind and taking care of your man there is less likely hood he will look elsewhere.
I dunno. I know some women who are seriously good about it, and their men are still out tom-catting. It depends on the guy, I guess. Or the women are lying about it. Or it's a combination. Who knows? All I know is that I don't make an issue of his porn-watching, because he doesn't do it all that often, and when he does, sometimes I'll join him, and then that turns into our own porn session! But we do that often enough without watching it, too. o.O
Flynne at July 22, 2009 7:00 AM
I'm glad to say that the younger-than-myself (age 40) women that I meet don't seem to be interested in the whole feminist demonization of porn hogwash, and enjoy it just like us dirty, filthy men.
Or maybe I just hang around a better class of women...
COOP at July 22, 2009 7:01 AM
Did you see the article on Salon a week or so ago? Apparently some research came out about speed dating... when the men approach the women, the women are choosier, but when the women approach the men, the men are choosier.
It was kind of neat.
I think a good chunk of women in my age group have partaken in porn.
NicoleK at July 22, 2009 7:07 AM
With an estimated viewership of over 25 million women per day, I put soap operas well up there as women porn.
There is also the rapidly growing segment of tv and print media affectionately known as vampire porn.
Joe at July 22, 2009 7:08 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2009/07/when-hairy-palm.html#comment-1659421">comment from lujlpAlso Amy, every paper I've seen your colum in runs two letters, I'm curious as to why you only post one of them at a time in this section
Just really habit, luj...I should start posting my question two. Thanks - appreciate that.
Amy Alkon at July 22, 2009 7:23 AM
I definitely had a problem with porn with my ex-husband. He was spending so much time whacking off to porn -- at least once a day -- that we didn't have sex at all in the last two years of our marriage. He couldn't get it up for me, but pics of college girls were A-OK.
I have an agreement with my fiance. As long as he's discreet and not blowing me off for sex with fantasy people, I'm fine with it.
MonicaP at July 22, 2009 7:27 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2009/07/when-hairy-palm.html#comment-1659425">comment from janei agree with the above poster that there seem to be a lot of men who (without any apparent justification) make statements indicating they consider themselves entitled to supermodels
There's a thing called "assortative mating," meaning like with like. Do average guys really consider themselves "entitled" to models? If so, aren't they quickly disabused of the notion they can get them? And what's wrong with not being satisfied with what you get? I call that having ambition and setting goals. And this idea that we're "socialized" to be miserable...here's an example to clear up some of your thinking: People participate in hookups in their early 20s. At some point, for some or many, this stops being satisfying for them, or working for them, and they want more. So they seek a relationship. Life is self-correcting. I suspect, Jane, you have taken one too many classes in the sociology/women's studies department. Don't just swallow it all whole -- chew it up in your brain first!
Amy Alkon at July 22, 2009 7:29 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2009/07/when-hairy-palm.html#comment-1659428">comment from A readerAmy--ingenious puns as usual. You have a knack for coming up with topics for debate. However, the "but teh womenz can haz romance novels!" argument is really tired.
Actually, it's not. Women watch movies like "Pretty Woman," where a street hooker ends up with a rich industrialist. You may differ from the pack -- meaningful stats measure people in general -- but all you have to know that pornotopia/romance-o-topia is correct is follow the money.
Amy Alkon at July 22, 2009 7:37 AM
If I may quote Chris Rock:
"Women never want us to have a good time. Never ever ever ever ever ever. Fellas, if your woman comes home from work and you got a smile on you face that she didn't put there, she gets suspicious."
Tyler at July 22, 2009 7:41 AM
A two day "binge" doesn't sound that odd to me. On the rare occasions that I go surfing for porn its usually a little "phase" where I'm into it for a few days and then move on to something else. I appreciate it might be more often for a guy. Consider: this guy was bored, sitting at home, feeling like crap and found a way to make himself feel better. It worked, so why would he change it? He'll head back to work and presuming they have a satisfying sex life, he'll go back to the odd surf. And Amy's surely right -- its not like he hasn't looked at porn since he stole his dad's playboy when he was 13! He'll just be more careful about cleaning up his history since he can't trust his girlfriend.
moreta at July 22, 2009 7:50 AM
I can't begin to describe the sheer revulsion and disgust I have for any person that would so willingly invade another person's privacy.
Do I have to fear their stalking? Do I have to worry about constant arguments over nothing? That every step I take and trip I make will be spied on or become fodder for some bogus argument?
Am I not allowed to look at other people and am I forced to keep my eyes on the ground or at a
wall?
I have written a short essay, I hope it's not too long.
jerry at July 22, 2009 7:53 AM
Why privacy invasion is bad
1) privacy invasion feeds lust of the eyes and lust of the flesh, which are never satisfied. It leaves the viewer craving more and more in order to achieve the same high." It easily enslaves people to their own cravings and opens the door to other forms of evil, like anger, abuse, violence, hatred, lying, envy, compulsiveness and selfishness. The power behind porn is revealed when the porn addict tries to stop their habit - it is virtually impossible without help.
2) privacy invasion sexualizes the viewer's mindset. It warps and perverts their perspective such that sex is unnaturally elevated in their thoughts. Even if a person decides to stop looking at browser histories, the past images can remain for years or even a lifetime.
3) privacy invasion promotes destructive practices and can lead to progressive addiction. For example, a browser history may not be enough and soon web cache directories and temp directories are sought after. Phones, laptops, desk folders, mattresses will all be examined.
4) privacy invasion intensifies an individual's drive to serve oneself, rather than serve others. For example, arguments, which typically accompanies looking at privacy invasion reinforces a self-centered sexual orientation which can detract from a person's ability to give and receive love.
7) privacy invasion can damage the viewer's family relationships, not to mention increasing the chance of his or her spouse and children finding the material. Privacy invasion may also inspire the viewer to explore the habits of their children and not just their spouse which is a common privacy invasion theme. Other things privacy invasion may inspire in the viewer (which could in turn affect the family) include sexual frustration, lying, abuse, affairs, debt, violent behavior and irrational thinking.
8) privacy invasion at work could damage the viewer's reputation, decrease his or her productivity and lead to job loss. It could also inspire unhealthy and/or inappropriate relationships with co-workers.
9) privacy invasion can damage the viewer's current or future marriage sex life. Privacy invaders may find that it's difficult to enjoy true intimacy with their spouse when they're wondering about what their spouse fantasizes about! Additionally, privacy invasion builds an unrealistic perception of sexual relations. Porn sex is a portrayal or an act made for the viewer's enjoyment. It takes what Darwin intended as a private expression of thought and prostitutes it for entertainment. When a person has been looking at browser histories of other people for entertainment, he or she will have a downgraded value of privacy. This in turn will detract from their appreciation and value of privacy and respect with their spouse.
10) privacy invasion will increase the viewer's tendency to lie, because he or she will have a natural desire to keep it secret to avoid criticism, embarrassment, shame and/or having to surrender their habit.
12) privacy invasion brings serious spiritual consequences (see consequences page). For example, it opens the doorway to spiritual oppression and confusion in the viewer's life. The power behind privacy invasion is inherently evil. It seeks to control and dominate the viewer's life, while allowing other forms of evil to gain influence in that person. Once a person starts looking at the browser histories, their eyes become the gateway for the evil power to enter them. As it gains influence, the evil can numb the viewer's ability discern right and wrong. As traditional moral values are blurred, confusion sets in.
jerry at July 22, 2009 7:54 AM
Lol, Jerry. That is funny. Seriously. Satire like that really takes the piss out of that crowd.
Spartee at July 22, 2009 7:59 AM
Thanks, I missed a few in my global search and replace, but well I think the point comes across.
Just say no thank you to privacy invasion!
jerry at July 22, 2009 8:06 AM
I wouldn't be concerned about a porn "addiction" unless a guy was watching it for hours, daily. My theory is that Boyfriend told LW that he doesn't watch porn any more because, obviously, that's what she wanted to hear... Plus, who wants to be interrogated about their porn viewing/masturbation habits?
"The fact that he initially lied makes me worry he has a problem."
Yeah, but the fact that you went through his internet history probably makes him think YOU have a problem.
ahw at July 22, 2009 8:06 AM
jane: "there seem to be a lot of men who (without any apparent justification) make statements indicating they consider themselves entitled to supermodels"
Since you are talking about your friends in your post, how many of your female friends would date/marry a poor man? Or a homeless man? Or a man that lives at home with his parents because he doesn't have a job and is just looking for a woman to take care of his financial needs so he can run the home and take care of the kids?
You talk about your perception of how men feel entitled to supermodels, but let's not forget that a lot of women feel entitled to men-with-well-paying-jobs.
It's funny...When a man feels supposedly feels entitled, it is wrong. But when a woman feels entitled, it is just natural.
Lance at July 22, 2009 8:21 AM
"as compared to the 1 woman friend whom I know reads romance novels (I've helped both pack and/or seen their apartments, so if the women do read these, they must be very careful-- they must burn the copies after reading or something). No Fabio or Pitt for me and my friends--instead of them, give us a kind man who can support himself at a basic level, likes us, and isn't addicted to anything any day."
1. Thats nice. I know guys who aren't into sports/video games/working with their hands/cars/hunting/fishing etc.. You didn't know anyone who voted for Nixon either right?
2. As mentioned above, vampire porn. Ann Rice before and now the "Twilight" series. Which section of the local book store do you think brings in the most cash (sells the most books) to the publishing houses? The newest Twilight book sold 1.3 million copies in the first day of release. Hell my conservative leaning 60 year old mother bought the movie for her ipod.
As for the addiction deal, thats highly subjective. I've noticed a trend in all those "my hubby/bf was/is addicted to porn!" infomercials and oprah type shows, namely that the horn dog porn addicted guy usually is a new father. Wow, wonder of wonders.. he was spankin it to porn while the wife was pregnant/after the kid was born. I can't imagine why that might be... no siree bub.
Sio at July 22, 2009 9:25 AM
Have we forgotten about the ubiquity of the internet? I know of a couple of guys who if I invaded their houses I wouldn't come across a playboy either. People do write and post erotic stories online too.
Amax at July 22, 2009 9:25 AM
Sio: Not always. My husband was actually a newlywed. We had minimal responsibilities. Admittedly, I was tired after working three jobs because he wouldn't work one, but I was still ready for it. Some guys would just rather spank it than have real sex with a real person who expects something in return.
MonicaP at July 22, 2009 9:28 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2009/07/when-hairy-palm.html#comment-1659463">comment from SioHow many guys do you think read, have ever read, or will ever read the Vows section of the NYT Style section (the stories about couples who've found each other and are getting married). Somebody once called it "football for girls." Actually, maybe that was me. Can't recall for sure.
Amy Alkon at July 22, 2009 9:38 AM
"Wow, wonder of wonders.. he was spankin it to porn while the wife was pregnant/after the kid was born. I can't imagine why that might be... no siree bub."
Classic.
"Sio: Not always."
See Amy's point above about populations having variance within them, but outliers making poor reference points when seeking to understand populations.
Spartee at July 22, 2009 10:22 AM
See Amy's point above about populations having variance within them, but outliers making poor reference points when seeking to understand populations.
True. But when dealing with individual people, we have to look at the possibility of those outliers. There are so many other things the LW needs to look at: Is he having sex with her often enough for her? Does he bail out on spending time with her and friends to look at porn? The fact that she only found out by looking in his history suggests that the dude doesn't have a problem, but she, apparently, does.
The odds are that he won't stop doing it: He'll just be sneakier about if he knows she'll flip out about it. She can make peace with this as part of his sexuality or find someone who doesn't look at porn.
MonicaP at July 22, 2009 10:38 AM
LW is missing something here. When she questioned him about porn, did she question him in a way that he knew that he would not be able to be honest with her? Did he know the tears would be following any honest answer? Can she honestly say that she would have accepted a truthful answer of "yes, I like to look at porn on occasion." It seems to me that she shouldn't be snooping. That is a bigger violation than a lie that he was most likely bullied into by the thought of her withholding sex until he complied with her no-porn rule. And I never understood a man who would lie about that. Why not be honest and if she doesn't like it, show her the door?
Kristen at July 22, 2009 10:44 AM
Oh please. "Two Day Binge"? The guy was home sick and passed the time with porn. That's like saying I went on a FRIENDS binge because I watch the DVDs back to back if I'm home sick.
As a woman, I don't understand why other women get so bent out of shape about porn. Hell, I've grilled my boyfriend before because I have yet to see one porn DVD or tape...or even magazine in our house (but I don't rifle through his things or check his browser history either). We've been together almost two years and have yet to see him with any pornography. To be honest: it bums me out. I'm all for watching a porno to get in the mood for a roll in the hay.
And Booooo Hooooo with the "objectifying women" garbage. If your man is committed to you and the two of you are in love, would it kill you to throw on some crotchless panties and let him treat you like a VERY bad girl once in a while? In my opinion a healthy physical relationship requires different kinds of sex....everything from "love making" to "treat me like a filthy whore you'll never see again". Maybe I'm weird, but I feel like variety is the spice of life. I may not want to have sex with a bunch of guys, but I want to have sex with my guy a bunch of ways. If we get some ideas from a porno or two, great.
Swede at July 22, 2009 11:10 AM
Also Amy, every paper I've seen your colum in runs two letters, I'm curious as to why you only post one of them at a time in this section
-lujlp
Just really habit, luj...I should start posting my question two. Thanks - appreciate that.
-amy
I was wondering the same thing! Please post your second questions!
Cam at July 22, 2009 11:54 AM
"When she questioned him about porn, did she question him in a way that he knew that he would not be able to be honest with her? "
That's the thing; it's a does-this-make-me-look-fat question. It was probably very clear that there was a right answer and a wrong answer, and the guy was no dummy: he gave the right answer.
Cousin Dave at July 22, 2009 12:59 PM
I don't assume I have any privacy anymore. My husband will read anything I leave open, and look over my shoulder when I'm on the computer to see what I'm writing, what I've written, etc. It's just the way it is. He also gets upset if I masturbate during the day. He doesn't get that I am MORE horny if I masturbate during the day... it's not like with a guy where if a guy masturbates too much he can't get it up, if anything I'm more flexible and wet, etc.
But yeah, privacy, I don't have it anymore. It really isn't the end of the world.
NicoleK at July 22, 2009 1:22 PM
Come on people. He spent 2 entire days looking at porn. That's not normal. Was he even actually sick? Cause who in the hell wants to whack off when down with the flu? If you're well enough for that, you're well enough for work, I'd say.
And yes, asshats, I know how to fuck, I've yet to see a sex book or video that had anything new in it for me, I do own crotchless panties (and nipple chains, and..) and I get men like to look. I also get that men aren't actually slaves to their sex drive, much as some of you want to say men can't help themselves when it comes to anything sex-related.
momof4 at July 22, 2009 1:47 PM
Momof4-I doubt he watched 48 continuous hours of porn. More like he had 48 continuous hours without her breathing down his neck and he was able to look as he wished. I look at porn when alone and with a partner. Since I'm without a partner now, it wouldn't be unusual for me to look at it on a daily basis. I just wish Jenna would come out of retirement. God I loved her!
Kristen at July 22, 2009 1:53 PM
Wow, the world's biggest non-issue. Men watch porn. It doesn't mean anything. He lied because you're the self-professed "Smut Patrol" and he probably didn't feel like being given a lecture like a small child over nothing. Which also tends to put you into "boring, over-controlling woman" categories.
Interestingly, if a man jerks off regularly (e.g. to porn) he also tends to last longer in bed, all the better to please you ... so if you hadn't noticed any outward symptoms of a problem before discovering this, there probably isn't a problem.
DavidJ at July 22, 2009 2:23 PM
"Come on people. He spent 2 entire days looking at porn. That's not normal. Was he even actually sick? Cause who in the hell wants to whack off when down with the flu? If you're well enough for that, you're well enough for work, I'd say."
And you are of course a guy and you would be completely be able to relate, right? How about you take us "guys" at our word about what is normal and not about a male's sexuality and not try to tell us what that may be?
Amax at July 22, 2009 2:52 PM
"I just wish Jenna would come out of retirement"
Ewww. I've seen her in person sans make-up. Not pretty. She has the worst skin I've ever seen.
momof4 at July 22, 2009 3:21 PM
Amy--Actually, interest in porn is much greater than interest in romance novels, as shown by the figures:
"Romance novels generate $1.52 Billion In sales every year"
(Source: www.freelance-writing.net/romance-writing.htm)
vs. estimates for porn range from 10 to 14 billion per year--that is, about 5 to 8 times the revenue for romance novels:
www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/21/.../main585049.shtml (10 billion)
www.forbes.com/2001/05/25/0524porn.html (14 billion)
Your "assortative dating" argument is interesting, but the problem is that porn addiction (that is, inordinate usage) causes some men to neglect their real sex lives. I have yet to see any indications that romance novel reading binges are causing women to deny sex with their partners. "Not tonight, I'm reading Twilight!" Yeah right. I know that women do withhold sex for other reasons, but doubt that this specific cause holds sway.
Finally, romance novels empower female authors in that they make money, without exploiting anyone real (though I find them mind-numbing). Porn, on the other hand, often takes employs women abused as children--I know many are willling, but some have been raised in such a way that they only feel valuable for their sex appeal.
Some women's studies classes are bunk, but the subject itself is worthy of study, and should be supplemented by men's studies. I don't think that all math courses are worthless because one of my math classes was a dud.
a reader at July 22, 2009 3:27 PM
This is part of why I have taught anyone who I'd share a computer with (boyfriend, roommate, husband) the fine art of erasing your browser history and cookies.
Then again, it is also my computer in question. When I'm typing in my "www." the last thing I need is for my computer to helpfully volunteer other people's sites (porn or otherwise). I have my own tastes, and don't want anybody else's shoved up my nose.
I call red herring. It's not about who feels what about porn. It's about the fact that browser history needs deleted on any computer accessible to more than one person.
Now, if he did spend 48 hours watching porn, I'd worry about that. I'd worry if he spent 48 hours reading about wheat crackers or watching Youtube videos on sushi preparation, too. Anything you'd ignore sleep and food for is worrisome. If it was just there because he was tired, bored, and couldn't go out, though, not so troublesome.
Steph at July 22, 2009 3:45 PM
On a recent 12+-hour flight (ugh) I watched 'He's just not that into you' when I ran out of things to watch and had read the book I'd brought along. One couple in the movie was married and the wife was always keeping an eye on her husband to make sure he didn't smoke, and she'd sniff him and grill him...she found cigarette butts and hounded him and he told her they were from construction workers remodeling their house. When she found a pack in his pants pocket all hell broke loose, you'd think he killed someone. I guess I was supposed to share in the righteous indignation, Hubby as Big Bad Lying Man but all I thought was that she pushed him into lying.
As Kristen and Cousin Dave said, she created the atmosphere of there being One Right Answer with the other option being Living Hell, guess what the guy chose. You can't make the consequences of being honest the equivalent of hitting a nest of killer bees with a stick.
crella at July 22, 2009 3:55 PM
Also, to David M--lots of women read fashion and beauty magazines so that they can be sexually appealing to men--see the headlines about "How to Please Your Man" on the racks every month. It's just not the same thing.
a reader at July 22, 2009 4:14 PM
A Reader: you're going by the account of a woman who, by her own admission, freaked! after snooping around and finding some porn URL's in her boyfriend's browsing history.
And I don't buy her claim that she knows that he was doing this all day for two days straight. I've never seen a browsing history that's organized that way, or presents that much information. But maybe she installed some sort of browsing logger.
It's more likely that she found a few URLs and is being melodramatic.
So I think that it's a little early to jump to the conclusion that he's a porn addict.
--------
BTW why doesn't it matter what type of porn this was?
I'd be a lot more worried about some guy who spent 20 minutes watching some of the really ugly hardcore stuff than someone who'd spent more time looking at pictures from Playboy.
Maurice at July 22, 2009 5:06 PM
Men would watch less porn if women. . . ?
No, I don't know; that's why I'm asking.
But dayum if I can hardly wait to start applying the generic form behind that to all sorts of other topics where behavioral agency and responsibility is being similarly misassigned. Hoo boy yes.
Thank you very, very much, Amy.
Acksiom at July 22, 2009 7:28 PM
Swede says >>>>Maybe I'm weird, but I feel like variety is the spice of life. I may not want to have sex with a bunch of guys, but I want to have sex with my guy a bunch of ways. If we get some ideas from a porno or two, great. "
Weird? I think not. The relationships I have been in that were with girls who have your outlook on sex, they were the most fulfilling relationships. IMHO, you are just open enough to speak those private thoughts that some women (and some men too) are afraid to speak. How unfortunate for them.....
Kristen says >>>>And I never understood a man who would lie about that. Why not be honest and if she doesn't like it, show her the door?
Absolutely correct but without necessarily needing the, "show her the door". I guess I have always been attracted to the bad girl, lol. However, in my experience women appreciate that up front attitude about sex. They haven't always appreciated it at first but eventually they came around. I believe it has to do with setting the tone right up front that liking "bad" stuff is totally ok. Just about every girl eventually showed her "bad girl" side. I think if you are a guy and you are mealy mouthed about what you like sexually, if you worry about what she might think, you are doing both you and her a disservice.
TW at July 22, 2009 8:56 PM
Amy, friggin hysterical title, "When Hairy Palms Met Sally". LMAO.......
TW at July 22, 2009 8:58 PM
@ A-Reader
Still no mention of Romantic movies though, what do you think your totals would come up to if you added them in with Romantic Novels? Amy did give you an example of one turned to life. In Amy’s past Blog; “Why Don’t They Get Knocked Up By The Bus Driver”, a link to a study about the possible negative effects of these romantic comedies was provided which you may want to look at. I wasn’t able to backtrack far enough to get it but someone with more computer knowledge just may be able to. It isn’t just romance novels, my good reader, is the point Amy and others are trying to make. Where a bunch of guys can’t talk about Debbie Does Dallas in front of a bunch of kids, women can talk all about Pretty Woman, and read Romance Novels on the subway. If both can have a negative affect, it may make you think about how widespread the latter could be over the former.
Amax at July 23, 2009 1:17 AM
Right. Women's porn is found in the form of romance novels, women's magazines, chick flix... The technical term is gynoporn.
A woman's response to men's interest in pictures of women is a gauge of both her lack of understanding of men and her desire to dominate.
dcm at July 23, 2009 3:33 AM
crella - 'He's just not that into you'
I just watched that recently too! Hysterical!
The girls were insane. Yet everyone meets someone in the end & they all live happy ever after. Definitely girl-porn, wishful thinking.
At one point, one of them was obsessing & BF turns to me & asks, It's not like that is it?!?
~~~~
and from other comments section - I-Hole said something that bothers me as well.
The strangeness of violence & sex allowed on tv. Violence is fine, shoot people, blow them up, splatter them across the wall, all fine.
But sex is never delighted in, it's always the couple that's sneaking around, or running from the law. The danger makes it ok I guess.
~~~~
Anyway, I like porn.
MeganNJ at July 23, 2009 6:34 AM
TW>> Weird? I think not. The relationships I have been in that were with girls who have your outlook on sex, they were the most fulfilling relationships. IMHO, you are just open enough to speak those private thoughts that some women (and some men too) are afraid to speak. How unfortunate for them.....
Agreed....and I was being a little sarcastic about the "weird" thing. I just can't believe how many people are so uptight about bumpin' uglies. LOL! I've been in all kind of relationships, and I've discovered that an uptight attitude about sex is something I can't deal with. I'm no whore, but I am a sexual being. We all are really. Some people prefer to repress that....I am not one of them. There's nothing better than being in a relationship with enough commitment and trust that you feel comfortable saying: "Honey, I don't want you to make love to me tonight....I want you to treat me like a hot piece of ass." or "Remember that position we saw in that movie the other night...." or "Okay, you play the cop and I'll be a VERY naughty girl."
Sad that LW's boyfriend didn't even feel comfortable enough to say: "Yes, sometimes I like to look at porn." I think SHE is the one in the wrong for even looking at his browser history. If you feel like you need to lie to your partner, you're in the wrong relationship. If you feel like you need to spy on your partner, you're in the wrong relationship. Period.
Swede at July 23, 2009 7:25 AM
Out of curiousity I took a look at my own Internet History. A casual search will only show you the sites you've hit -- not how many times and for how long and at what particular time. To actually determine if he'd been looking for "48 hours straight" (are you serious momof4?) she'd have had to right click and check the properties on each individual one, catalogue the number of times he hit it and the time he connected. From there she could determine if he spent two full days going from site to site to site. And wouldn't that make her a nut job worth ditching?
I haven't checked internet porn in a while and can't test here from work -- but last time I did the popups were neverending. Close out one site and 10 more pop up. Pretty easy to have a lengthy list of sites added to ones history.
moreta at July 23, 2009 9:08 AM
I have a couple more comments after re-reading the letter:
1.) How often does she check his history? Did she just happen to check it the day after he was browsing porn sites? If so, how does she even know when the sites in the history are from? Methinks she has been trying to catch him in something and checking his history all along.
2.) How did he lie? He said he no longer watched it, not that he never would. I quit smoking recently. If someone asked me tomorrow if I smoke, I'd say: "I used to, but not anymore." Would I then be a liar if I broke down and had a cig one day next week? Don't think so.
3.) Unrealistic images of women? And your Cosmopolitan and Vogue don't?! Please. How about unrealistic images of men? I have to agree with everyone about the romantic movies. You don't want your man asking you to swallow his load because he saw a pron slut do it? Then maybe you shouldn't expect him to be your night in shining armor, right? You're not a porn star and he's not the dude from The Notebook. Your real people. Sometimes real women swallow cum...and real men are so appreciative that they try to show their lady a little romance. Just sayin'
Swede at July 23, 2009 9:26 AM
Okay- As a woman I know that I watch porn. Both with my man and without him. I also know he watches it, mostly bacause guys like naked women!!! My major problem with this girl is that she INVADED HIS PRIVACY!!!! I wouldn't blame the bf if he dumped her and found a girl that was alot less uptight. I think Amy was right on. Whether or not he wathed porn she was in the wrong long before he supposedly lied to her about his "habit".
My mans princess at July 23, 2009 9:58 AM
The LW doesn't want to date a man, she wants a neutered housepet that she can control. It's pretty obvious she doesn't trust him and has no respect for him.
I enjoy watching porn alone, but mostly with my guy, because it spices things up. We trust each other enough that we can open up about our fantasies which makes things fantastic!
I thought the Jennifer Connolly character was horrible in '...not into you', and Jennifer Aniston's character was selfish and didn't see how miserable she made her boyfriend by forcing him to propose. He looked like he was going to throw up. I was hoping she'd say no and just appreciate the gesture, but then again, it was a chick flick. I was pretty loud in my disgust in the theatre when she accepted.
Chrissy at July 23, 2009 12:53 PM
I freaked!
This is the issue. She doesn't like porn because of X. Until she's willing to say why, we really can't do much.
I have a friend who hates it because she had sex with a guy and then he went off and watched some porn. That's understandable. It made her feel like she wasn't enough, hurt and angry.
So, what *personal* reason doesn't "Smut Patrol" like porn?
ErikZ at July 23, 2009 1:30 PM
Whether smut patrol doesn't like porn or does is really almost irrelevant here. Not totally, but not far off.
The fact is that she doesn't trust him, doesn't like his recreation, and feels that it is OK to snoop on him at will as if she's his mother or his prison guard, not his girl friend.
If she doesn't like porn, that is well and good, no reason she HAS to like it, but there is equally no reason that she should have the right to IMPOSE HER HANGUP on him.
Its not for her to decide what he reads, watches, or does on his own damned time, his viewing pleasure, is not hers to censor or censure.
Ditto in the reverse. That he lied, ooooh wow, people never lie...big shocker there. Especially about something he didn't feel comfortable discussing with her...wow that has never happened to anyone before.
People aren't perfect, they tell little white lies to make other people feel better, more comfortable, or just plain happier, and most of us buy those little white lies knowing that they are little white lies, because who the hell really wants to know some things? Truth is she knew he liked porn the day they met, just via the fact that he was a straight male with a functional penis.
She didn't like to think of it, soooo she probably asked him one day, with that expression every man knows on her face that says, "Tell me the truth...that I want to hear, or I'll badger you till you agree."
Robert at July 23, 2009 4:12 PM
"I thought the Jennifer Connolly character was horrible in '...not into you', and Jennifer Aniston's character was selfish and didn't see how miserable she made her boyfriend by forcing him to propose. He looked like he was going to throw up. I was hoping she'd say no and just appreciate the gesture, but then again, it was a chick flick. I was pretty loud in my disgust in the theatre when she accepted."
Agreed. The tone of the movie though, was that he was the big bad bastard, and she the victim. I haven't lived in the US for 29 years, sometimes these things are really jarring. I see it the way you did, but sooooo many women who watch these films do not. It's like the Lifetime channel, where men are always the bastards.
crella at July 23, 2009 5:13 PM
Amy, let me also say I'd like to see your back up letter, too, since Creative Loafing no longer runs your column but now runs "Savage Love," which I hate with a passion.
My only question is, shouldn't he be dumping her in favor a woman who doesn't snoop?
Patrick at July 23, 2009 5:54 PM
Or, as Dan Savage would say, DTMFA!
Chrissy at July 24, 2009 6:05 AM
I'd rather have my eyes pulled from my head and soaked in lye than read a romantic novel or watch some mind-numbing romantic comedy. I think that if anything, those movies reinforce negative stereotypes and skew expectations much more than porn has.
I love porn. My boyfriend is 13 years younger (I'm 40), and loves it, too. Try watching it together. Takes all the sneakiness out and becomes a very, very fun pastime.
Law Lady at July 26, 2009 2:20 PM
Hey you guys, stop trashing romance novels! They don't write themselves you know.
I get lots of my sex scene ideas from my favorite porn. Especially the lesbian sex scenes, because I have never gotten to see one of those in reality.
John Tagliaferro at July 27, 2009 6:14 AM
I haven't lived in the US for 29 years, sometimes these things are really jarring.
I don't think that this genre of films portray young women fairly. What's funny is that if women were portrayed as badly in a guys film, there'd be a national controversy.
But I do think that they feed the negative stereotypes of American women abroad. They play right into the image of American women as being neurotic self-absorbed graceless harpies. I'm a little surprised that US feminists haven't caught onto this fact.
Jack at July 27, 2009 7:55 AM
>>hey play right into the image of American women as being neurotic self-absorbed graceless harpies.
Well, while not all AW are that way, enough are that I am happily living in Mexico.
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