Getting To No Him
This man I "met" on a dating website had issues with my refusing to give him my number. Initially, we had nice rapport via e-mail, despite his failing to pay attention (asking if I'd been married when I'd already mentioned my divorce lawyer). He apologized and gave me his number, hoping to talk and meet. I told him I'd call, but kept getting busy. Several days later, I called but missed him. He again requested my number so he could call me back (he'd already asked several times), and I told him it takes me time to get comfortable enough to share it. He was "disappointed," and said if we were going to talk, it should be "right away," maybe even that day, so he wouldn't be waiting around. I wrote that he hadn't been listening again, as I'd said I work days and can't chat then. I told him to look up Internet dating guidelines, which always advise against dispensing personal contact information until meeting, and said we weren't a good match. He wrote that my actions indicate I'm not open to a relationship. I asked him to stop e-mailing me. He then e-mailed me twice more, speculating about my psychology.
--Tell Me This Isn't Creepy
Some of the logic I hear from Internet daters is seriously puzzling: "I won't give you my number, but I'd be happy to meet you in a darkened canyon, late at night, next to a shallow grave." And, sure enough, at the appointed time and place, they see old HillsideStrangler27 waiting for them, and wonder aloud, "Do you always accessorize with a shovel?"
If you're like many people, you see a serial killer behind every Internet dating profile, but you'll trust a guy you sometimes see at the coffee shop or around the neighborhood. Well, John Wayne Gacy and Jeffrey Dahmer were people's neighbors, too. (Everybody has to live somewhere.) On the Internet or off, you protect yourself by paying attention to any troubling things a guy says or does instead of focusing on who you want him to be. As for what Internet dating guidelines actually say, it's generally that you shouldn't put identifying information in your profile (real name, address, and the best time to rob you). Other precautionary tactics include creating a special e-mail address, vetting people by phone before meeting, and calling from Skype.com or a blocked number -- ideally, when you say you will, so a guy isn't sitting by the phone like the only 16-year-old girl who has yet to be asked to prom.
So, this man had to have the last word, the last word, and the last word. If he keeps e-mailing, yeah, that's a problem. But, what did you expect? You strung him along just long enough to dump him. He actually should've been wary of you from the start, considering how you came on like a mean schoolmarm, reprimanding him for failing to commit to memory every detail you ever e-mailed him. My guess is, he's right -- that the last thing you want is to get close to anybody. If that's the truth, work on changing it -- don't seek a relationship then sabotage any chance of it by making your interactions about as fun as a staged reading of a wireless phone contract. If you continue Internet dating, you should recognize that a guy you meet for drinks actually doesn't need your phone number; he'll just break in through your back window, tie you up, and talk to you for as long as he pleases after he follows you home from the bar.
He is/was creepy.
It's not too much to ask for someone to pay attention.
His insulting follow-ups point to his own psychosis.
You are better off with someone else.
Cayce at September 29, 2009 10:49 PM
I don't know if he's creepy, it just sounds like he's really pushy and doesn't take rejection well (hence the attacking emails he's sending.)
It is my experience, however, that when a guy doesn't listen when communicating through email, he is not going to be any better in real life. This comes from trying to give the benefit of the doubt.
I think what this woman really needs to learn here is to listen to her gut - if she feels he isn't paying attention or is pushing her too hard before he's even met you, well he is going to be 10 times worse in real life.
Men don't always realize just how important it is for a woman to feel comfortable; we can't open up to a relationship unless we are.
So LW needs to let guy have the last word (really, by responding even to deny or to tell him to stop contacting is to allow contact to continue - you've told him to stop, so stop already) and move on.
kjm at September 30, 2009 12:30 AM
Probably the guy couldn't remember details of what she told him previously because he's emailing several other women and can't keep up with who told him what.
Jan at September 30, 2009 1:17 AM
Don't think either one of these people is ready for a relationship attempt.
David M. at September 30, 2009 4:25 AM
I am with David M. and I think they are both creepy. It is fortunate they did not make it to the breeding stage.
Suki at September 30, 2009 4:43 AM
Add me to the "I think they're both creepy" camp.
He missed her call-she got busy-he wants her number-she works days -- It sounds like they're arguing over office staff work. Wasn't dating, internet or otherwise, supposed to be fun? Why should you be doing it if it's a pain in the neck?
Letters like these make me glad I'm already married. If I were her, I'd have nothing to do with him, and if I were him, I wouldn't spend any more time on her.
old rpm daddy at September 30, 2009 4:58 AM
I'm with you guys. These two need to do some serious work on themselves before they even attempt to connect with anyone else.
Flynne at September 30, 2009 5:56 AM
Cayce, how do you know the LW isn't one of these women who feels compelled to tell her entire life story at the first contact, and then she expects him to commit the entire thing to memory? She's treating the guy like he's on a quiz show: "What did I tell you I had for breakfast on July 7, 1994? What? You don't remember? BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!" Yes, his reaction was inappropriate, but understandable given that the LW did just about everything she could do to piss him off. It appears that for the LW, dating is all about getting her needs met, and what the guy wants doesn't matter. And the scary thing is, she doesn't appear to see anything wrong with that.
Cousin Dave at September 30, 2009 7:11 AM
Why would you bother past the second creepy thing? Amy's off-base on this. You owed him nothing, and just because you are on an internet dating site doesn't mean you have to be "open" to everyone that responds to you. Block his emails and move on.
And no, it's not unreasonable to expect someone to remember something like a divorce. It's an email, he could've reread it before responding to you!
momof4 at September 30, 2009 7:12 AM
On the remembering stuff from email topic, I sometimes get annoyed with this in a similar manner as the LW.
When I post ads I try to make sure that I am a smoker. If I forget, I make sure it is mentioned in an early response. It seems to be something important to a lot of women around here and I would rather not waste time with women who hate smoking or smokers.
That theory frequently fails contact with reality, from numerous dates I have been on, or days long exchanges of email with women who "hate" smoking, but were informed of that detail in the ad or quickly after.
If marital status was that important to this guy then he should have noted that she was either acceptable or unacceptable the first time she informed him of her status.
Otherwise, I am with my blogger buddy and the others who think "both are creepy."
John Tagliaferro at September 30, 2009 7:24 AM
I met my husband on-line. While it sounds like the fellow needs to chill a bit, I know my husband was getting frustrated with the serial chatters. If you're really looking for a relationship, e-mailing doesn't get you very far and quickly getting to that first phone call and first meeting (safely, of course) is what will tell you whether you're wasting your time or if there's some connection.
Oddly, my husband's frustration led to him writing a couple amusing, but clearly honest, e-mails about himself that really caught my interest. As in, hey, this guy sounds like a real person!
Is the LW looking for a guy who will save and analyze every correspondence, cross-checking it against all future interaction so that he always says exactly the right thing? Oh, the romance! And, maybe, just maybe, that's the kinda guy that turns into a real stalker.
If you're just looking to chat, join a chat room. (Do such things still exist?) If you want to go on a few dates, well, you may actually have to talk to someone!
moreta at September 30, 2009 7:29 AM
Both sound like they have issues. But, here's the thing--online "dating" is really a misnomer. What dating sites are designed for is to "introduce" people to each other. First step is emailing/chatting, and phone conversation is usually the next logical progression. Sometimes the "chemistry" of a good IM session falls flat when it rises to an actual voice conversation. And then, some people despise talking on the phone and would rather meet face to face to see if the physical and emotional "spark" is there. I think alot of guys, especially, would rather cut through the initial "steps" and just arrange a meeting--to cut to the chase, so to speak. Amy's right in that LW is just as likely to be stalked by someone who doesn't know her phone number or is on the dating site. The guy sounds way too pushy though and a little strange for having to have the last word for his own satisfaction. Geez, it's online dating. Next, please?
Not a huge loss for either of them, I'd say...BTW I'm personally happy with my online dating experience, my sweetie of 4 years (hubby of 3) and I met on Match....
Beth at September 30, 2009 7:49 AM
Mof4, I think Beth hit on what really happened. I presume that the LW made the first contact, since that's the way most online dating sites are set up -- the woman has to initiate contact. So she made contact, got him interested... and then she rejected all means by which the relationship might progress further. She wouldn't give him her number, and when he gave her his, she declined to call. At that point the guy should have sent her the "have a nice life" email; the only thing he really did wrong, up to the end, was in continuing to give the LW the benefit of the doubt.
Cousin Dave at September 30, 2009 8:44 AM
I presume that the LW made the first contact, since that's the way most online dating sites are set up -- the woman has to initiate contact.
Not any of the online dating sites (Match.com and eHarmony) I've tried. They were set up so men and women could contact each other.
MonicaP at September 30, 2009 9:03 AM
Not any of the online dating sites (Match.com and eHarmony) I've tried. They were set up so men and women could contact each other.
That's right. But CD's point still stands. The LW's behavior was ridiculous. It may be that this guy just snapped after having been put through the ringer by her.
This type of behavior by women isn't uncommon on dating sites. They love to play Queen of Hearts. They'll deliberately set guys up to reject them. It's an ego thing.
Marko at September 30, 2009 9:23 AM
It's too bad the LW believes everything she's told about internet dating, that it's just SOOO dangerous, etc. If a woman doesn't have street smarts by the time she's a teenager, she can get into dangerous situations at any time. Going with your gut instincts is always the best idea (like 'The Gift of Fear' book says).
I did an extensive amount of internet dating, and I never had a bad experience. If they sounded nice, I'd get the guy's number, *67 and call him, and if he sounded OK, I'd meet during the day at a Starbucks in a nice neighbourhood. If there was no chemistry, it was nice to meet a new person, and just move on to the next one. I didn't assume every guy was a mass murderer!
I did find that a lot of people use e-mailing & texting to actually avoid meeting in person because they were afraid, and it sounds like the LW is one of those time wasters.
Chrissy at September 30, 2009 9:33 AM
Single Snakeman was never any good at internet dating. Apparently, there are a lot of rules and preconditions involved. Was much better at picking-women-up-in-real-life dating. Especially when not at a bar or club or other obvious place. Its amazing how much lower a woman's barriers are when you approach them at a gas station, book store, groceries, etc. You can actually see how they are in real life (and how they really look).
Met Mrs. Snake at the local Starbucks. Sat down and chatted her up and walked her home. Got her real-life phone number and address in the same night! I guess Starbucks Dating Guidelines are different.
snakeman99 at September 30, 2009 10:27 AM
Met Mrs. Snake at the local Starbucks. Sat down and chatted her up and walked her home. Got her real-life phone number and address in the same night! I guess Starbucks Dating Guidelines are different.
My Starbucks sucks for meeting women. I need to find a new one. Even when I brought my own a few months ago she did not survive contact with our second weekend out.
Guess I am walking a couple more blocks to the new one with the nice glass fireplace and see how the hunting is there.
John Tagliaferro at September 30, 2009 11:45 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2009/09/getting-to-no-h.html#comment-1670328">comment from snakeman99Met Mrs. Snake at the local Starbucks. Sat down and chatted her up and walked her home. Got her real-life phone number and address in the same night! I guess Starbucks Dating Guidelines are different.
No - you act like a real man, as did Gregg, when he met me at the Apple computer store. How refreshing.
Amy Alkon at September 30, 2009 12:01 PM
"I did find that a lot of people use e-mailing & texting to actually avoid meeting in person because they were afraid, and it sounds like the LW is one of those time wasters."
Chrissy, it does make you wonder what kind of love life those people expect to have, doesn't it? I'm a ballroom dancer, and every once in a while we get a new student who wants to learn partner dancing, but doesn't want to have to touch or be touched by their partner... erm, it doesn't work that way.
Cousin Dave at September 30, 2009 12:58 PM
Every single online 'introduction' 'date' whatever, that I've experienced has led to email hell. Lots of email, *maybe* one or two calls, **never** any face to face.
Every
single
one.
On the other hand, and with far less work, and in a small town no less, I've never had a problem getting numbers, dates, partners, and even a couple long term relationships.
I think we have some frightened women out there who like the idea of dating, but not the actual practice. Scared? Maybe. Conflicted? Probably. A waste of everyone's time? Definitely.
railmeat at September 30, 2009 3:17 PM
I suspect there's more spontaneity in live dating. You see someone, he asks you out, if you like him even a little, you probably say yes.
Online dating is a lot like shopping. I like him in that picture, but not in that picture; he says he wants kids -- what if I change my mind and don't want them? Oooh, look at that guy over there.
More time to ponder buyer's remorse.
MonicaP at September 30, 2009 4:18 PM
The funny thing is that either of these people might have behaved entirely differently if they'd first met in person; in a social setting or through friends. Online dating seems to bring out negative traits in many people. I suspect that it's the combination of risk and anonymity.
Mike at September 30, 2009 7:42 PM
The woman is a time waster. Before I got married I tried a couple of those dating sites. There were “women” that only wanted to chat for weeks online or via email. They got upset if I requested a phone call. I really don’t like “chatting” on a computer as I don’t type very fast.
I explained a voice call will give us more information much more quickly. I wasn’t asking for there address or social security number. I stopped all contact when they said they felt I was pushy. I explained that I had no more time to waste with them.
Someone later told me that some of those “women” who refuse to talk on the phone were men playing games.
David at October 1, 2009 8:29 AM
Someone later told me that some of those “women” who refuse to talk on the phone were men playing games.
Or married - I've run into that twice.
Mike at October 1, 2009 1:25 PM
Or married
Or both.
John Tagliaferro at October 2, 2009 7:36 AM
Wow- all sorts of different ideas out there on dating and internet dating.
My experience: I did lots of in person dating, didn't meet a "keeper", although I did have lots of fun. When I realized I was ready for a ltr, I tried eHarmony. I liked that: #1 the psych profile and personality matching. #2 the price might keep the not serious and married men away #3 someone else was going to do the matching for me(I had been doing it myself and was 45 and single so obviously not very good at it!)Met my sweetheart(soon to be husband) about 2 months into my 1 year membership. Yay!
Once we got to "open communication", we emailed a few times, talked on the phone once(at which time I realized he was English which I had forgotten b/c yes, I was reading quite a few different profiles and had trouble keeping them straight!)then we met halfway at a public place. That went so well, I gave him my actual address(where I actually live)and we went out to dinner near me a couple days later and w/in a few months we ended up falling in love. Again-yay! He is far from perfect(apparently me too!) but he is pretty wonderful and we are a good match. And imperfect we may be, we are way happier than we were alone!
Linny at October 2, 2009 2:31 PM
I guess e-harmony is doing web/blog searches for online dating mentions.
David at October 4, 2009 2:31 PM
My experience in online dating was that everyone is writing to several people all at once, and end up focusing on the one that gave him/her the best opportunity to go out with them. That is a number that is factored from: looks, how often they write, what they write, how receptive they are, how many or how few "admirers" they have, and whatever other things each person looks for in potential mates/bed partners.
Sounds to me like the guy was not that interested anyway, and was trying his darndest to give her a shot at him before he pulled the plug to go with his next choice.
Internet dating is a joke. When I gave it up after being stalked by two women, and having another announce she wanted to have my baby, I went back to the old fashioned way: I was lonely awhile until I found someone by chance. And you will always find someone by chance.
mike at October 4, 2009 9:23 PM
I met my husband on-line and we celebrated our 11th anniversary recently. So, it's not always a joke.
Karen at October 5, 2009 10:29 AM
I met my husband on-line and we celebrated our 11th anniversary recently. So, it's not always a joke.
My fiance and I met online, and we're getting married in April, so I've also had a good experience with online dating. I met quite a few men who were not good matches, but the same could be said for dating people out in meat space.
Internet dating shouldn't be a substitute for live interaction. Your entire relationship shouldn't happen in a chat room. It's merely a solid way of meeting people you might not otherwise meet.
MonicaP at October 5, 2009 10:46 AM
No. No you won't.
brian at October 5, 2009 6:43 PM
No. No you won't.
Brian's right. What seems more typical is that people 'find' someone by settling for whoever they can find.
Maurice at October 6, 2009 6:18 AM
I agree with Amy. The LW has issues, not the guy so much. She sounds like one of those who thinks every guy who contacts her is supposed to be committed solely to her from that moment, paying close attention to every little thing she writes.
That's not how online dating works. You throw out a net, reel in a few good prospects, e-mail a couple of times, narrow the catch down a bit more, then decide who you want to talk to on the phone and hopefully meet. These are progressive steps.
I never gave out my personal address, and always met a first date in a public place, but not giving out a phone number?! That's paranoid. All you need is a cellphone. He can't find you.
Besides, she got HIS number. What's to say she isn't a stalker? He showed her that level of trust, but she was unwilling. If you're not able to trust even a little bit, you shouldn't be dating.
As an aside, she sounds like a recent tenant of mine. I had two older (mid 50s) ladies living here, and they both seemed to attract the same men online. In the evening, they'd end up comparing notes and discover the were talking to the same guys. One lady was cool about this, but the other would contact any guy that was also talking to her friend and ream him out...for just EMAILING someone else besides her!
Naturally, the guys concluded (correctly) that the second lady was a nutcase, so the first lady got all the dates. lol And, she is now in a great relationship with one of the guys she met online. The other lady is still unattached.
lovelysoul at October 6, 2009 8:59 AM
Dave- I don't work for eHarmony but will shout from the rooftops to try it if you are thinking about trying any sort of online dating.
It was the best thing I ever did for myself! My friends tease me that I am their best advertisement but I don't care! I am 48 and in love again after 20 years alone! again-YAY!!!!!!
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