For Better Or Much, Much Better
I'm 39, and married four years to a woman I dated for two. She's the mother of my two stepchildren, 13 and 16. The problem is, I may be in love with a girl from high school, the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. I've always felt she was the one I was meant to be with. She was popular, and, well, I was not. Still, I can't honestly say that if I'd asked her out, she'd have said no. I wrote her love letters and sent roses on her birthday, which she called to thank me for. Over the years, I haven't stopped thinking about her, and dream about her frequently. At my high school reunion, I heard she's single. She's my Facebook friend, and I wanted to say hi, but she's never on. Yesterday, my dream about her was so emotional that I nearly woke up in tears. I love my wife, but she's more like my best friend. Should I let this affect my marriage? Could I, should I, pursue the woman of my dreams?
--Pining
You're seriously wondering whether you should let this "affect" your marriage? Right. "Hey, Honey, it's been real, but I heard from this drunk guy at my reunion that my high school crush is single and hot as ever. No, no...I haven't slept with her. Or seen her. Or spoken with her for 20 years. But, I friended her on Facebook, and I just can't keep denying she's my soul mate after learning she 'had a great workout and is headed out for some yummies and cocktails!!!'"
You aren't in love with her; you're in love with being the kind of guy who gets a girl like her. You'll do anything to pretend this could be a reality, like telling yourself you can't honestly say the hot popular girl wouldn't have gone out with you, if only you'd asked. Sure. Just as you can't honestly say your dog won't wake up tomorrow and speak Greek, or that you won't win enough in the lottery this weekend to be able to buy Cuba.
Boohoo, are you not completely fulfilled? I'm reminded of a woman -- the mother of four young children -- who read "Eat, Pray, Love" and informed her husband that she, too, needed to "find herself" (translation: travel to Italy and find herself a hot young Latin lover). Um, wrong. What Married Mommylady needs to find is a better preschool for her 3-year-old. Sorry, but once you have kids, by birth or by marriage, you can't just jump ship because you spotted something glittery in the water.
Of course Crushgirl's more appealing than your wife -- or any real woman. As a creation of your as-of-yet unmatriculated high school imagination, she never gets her period or PMS. She never wants you to turn off the game or stop bugging her for sex or take out the garbage or shut the hell up already.
And, yoohoo, remember those vows you took? I'm guessing they weren't "Do you take this placeholder until the girl you really love Facebooks you back?" This is the life you've chosen, and you can keep clocking out of it or take pride in making it the best you can. Whenever you feel like taking a toke off the high school hottie pipe, go find your wife, brush a little piece of hair from her face, and tell her she's beautiful and how much she means to you. Try that on your crush, and you're effectively confessing, "For 23 years, I've been stalking you in my head." But, hey, with any luck, you can get your divorce decree on the same day as the restraining order.
What a disgusting pig! "Dear Amy, this hot chick I was infatuated with in high school is still single. Should I just up and leave my wife and stepchildren to pursue her?"
What makes him think that his high school crush would even be interested in him? "Hi. Just kicked my wife and two stepkids of four years to the curb so I could pursue you. Let's do dinner!"
Patrick at November 25, 2009 1:34 AM
He's in love with his fantasy. LW should change the fantasy back to his wife that he apparently loved enough to marry.
Anonymiss at November 25, 2009 3:40 AM
This guy's story sounds very very similar to another LW's story I read on Dear Margo or Dear Prudence or Wayne and Tamara or Carolyn Hax. I'm an advice column junkie so I make the rounds every morning. (Love you Amy - you're great!) Could be coincidence...or not. As I remember the other LW got a similar type of reply. Any other reader remember this letter from elsewhere?
Carol at November 25, 2009 4:08 AM
...to his wife whom he apparently loved enough...
Anonymiss at November 25, 2009 4:10 AM
Doesn't sound like he loves his wife all that much. He's questioning whether he should leave her (after all, he "only dated her for 2 years" before they got married) for his high school fantasy. Sounds like another candidate for a wishbone transplant. Suck it up and deal, LW. You made a committment to this woman, not your "dream woman". This ain't "Wayne's World".
Flynne at November 25, 2009 5:00 AM
Patrick, maybe "disgusting pig" is a little strong, but basically I agree with you.
For Pete's sake, LW, you're 39 years old but you're behaving like you're 14! Act your age! Sure, you had a crush on a girl in high school. Even being a little sentimental about it twenty-odd years later isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as you keep it in perspective. You've got a good life now -- even if you say your wife is more like your best friend, that gives you bragging rights to more than a lot of guys have.
There comes a time when you have to admit to yourself that some of the things you wanted just aren't going to happen, but if you look, you might realize that you've got more in your life than you asked for anyway. The girl you pined for in high school really isn't the capstone to anything; as Ms. Alkon hinted, she's more symbolic of an unfulfilled (and unneeded) desire than anything else.
old rpm daddy at November 25, 2009 5:06 AM
"Sorry, but once you have kids, by birth or by marriage, you can't just jump ship because you spotted something glittery in the water." Amen.
Fantasy is a way of attaining perfection in our lives. Whatever your fantasy is with her- it will fade into reality and day to day living like it has with your wife.
You didn't complain about your wife so she must be a decent woman. Don't risk your kids and your marraige on a fantasy.
If you had a best friend who was contemplating doing what you are doing, would you tell him to go for it? I hope not as that's a real sign of immaturity. Remember those wedding vows?
David M. at November 25, 2009 6:24 AM
"Still, I can't honestly say that if I'd asked her out, she'd have said no."
Hard to believe a grown man would write that. Even harder not to laugh at such self-delusion if the letter is on the level.
Where to begin? Yeah, maybe she would have said "yes." What are the chances of a second date? Less. Sex? Less still. Love? Even lower odds. Love that lasts? Yet still lower odds. But hey, dump that wife for your one in a thousand shot. Dream big!
Ha.
Grow. The. Fuck. Up. You. Middle-aged. Fool. Take your kids to the park tommorrow and quit trying to sabotage your marriage for a little strange.
Spartee at November 25, 2009 6:37 AM
Ha! Spartee Your last sentence says it all.
Of Course, You are fighting against Human nature, and as any decent Western Literature course will prove,his actions are the stuff of both Novels and history.
Matter of Fact there are a pair of prominent ex-Governors,(New York & South Carolina)who had even more to lose, and yet still took a chance on the "Dream Big" theory you speak of.
But you are correct. This is just an early case of "Middle Aged Fool Syndrome" Or as we here at the Institute like to call it, MAFS.
It is a quite common affliction usually brought on by the realization that, This is indeed all there really is!
Many men deal with it. Some don't. It is the ones who don't that make the rest of us squirm.
Thomas
Thomas at November 25, 2009 6:49 AM
I loved Amy's answer, especially the part about the fantasy figure never having had PMS or asking him to take out the garbage, etc.
Reminds me of something I read from another column years ago, which pointed out that people in affairs are seeing each other only at their best, and it's a whole nuther story if they actually dump their mates for each other.
Pricklypear at November 25, 2009 7:32 AM
Well, the New York governor was more "paying big" than "dreaming big". Both utter scum, though.
Robin at November 25, 2009 7:44 AM
Amy, excellent, excellent advice, as usual. Hit the nail squarely on the head.
The more he "feeds" this fantasy in his head, the more he will find fault with his current situation, nitpicking, if you will, and imagine how much better, how perfect, etc. it would be with her. If he pours all of his energy into his marriage, how surprised he might be at how he already does "have it all."
Amy, your line: "Whenever you feel like taking a toke off the high school hottie pipe, go find your wife, brush a little piece of hair from her face, and tell her she's beautiful and how much she means to you." was perfect.
the other Beth at November 25, 2009 7:46 AM
People really ask for 'advice' in such ridiculous situations?? The writer is a pathetic child.
I feel bad for the wife and her kids.
Loser.
No, worse than a loser - he's gonna drag his family down with him.
railmeat at November 25, 2009 8:51 AM
Wow, he was not popular in high school, and he has idealized a perfect stranger because of this. People are normally not like they were in High School, and for heavens sake buddy high school is over! Get over yourself and love the person you married!
This reminds me of people who cheat on their significant others and leave to be with the new person because they are "fun" or "uncomplicated". Of course someone you just met is going to be less complicated or more fun than the person you have lived with over the years, the person you pay bills with, and fight over who did the dishes last. When you are with someone for real it is always going to be more complicated, and in the beginning it is always going to be more fun. If people want uncomplicated and fun they should stick to 3 month relationships and then break it off after that. That way you still have lots of sex but the other person is not yet comfortable to nit pick or nag you, or even argue over going to dinner. After doing this for a while you may discover what is really more fulfilling.
nadine at November 25, 2009 9:02 AM
One part of the letter no one's mentioned: " I wrote her love letters and sent roses on her birthday, which she called to thank me for." Did that happen in high school, or just recently? If the latter, it suggests that she's not an unattainable fantasy, that he might actually have a chance if he went after her. (Not that I'm saying he should; far from it. My advice to him is an old saying that starts with "Be careful what you wish for. . .".)
Rex Little at November 25, 2009 10:38 AM
"Of Course, You are fighting against Human nature, and as any decent Western Literature course will prove,his actions are the stuff of both Novels and history."
I cannot think of better example than the "Dr. Zhivago."
The man, torn between the faithful wife and the passionate lover in the middle of Bolshevik Revolution.
His willingness to cheat on his wife eventually led to his downfall but that experience inspired him to write a collection of poem called "Lara". He wrote that poem in the middle of dark winter during the Communist Revolution. And this cheating poet inspired many people about individual love (?) in the socialist Soviet Union.
Although it was unfortunate to his wife and children, I am somewhat glad he cheated.
Chang at November 25, 2009 11:15 AM
"She's my Facebook friend, and i wanted to say hi but she's never on"..... This speaks volumes. She's probably on, but doesn't show herself as visible to you, buddy, cuz she heard from that mutual friend that you were still lusting after her after all these years (yuk!).
Also, look at LW's chronology of events: he says he wrote love letters & sent flowers, which she called & thanked him for. THEN he says "over the years"... therefore, many years have passed since the letter writing & flower sending, & this woman surely knows what's what, which means she will never show herself on Facebook as 'visible' (or available) to him. He should thank his lucky stars that she is adept at avoidance, as he would most certainly make a fool of himself, lose his wife and family, & end up with nothing.
Bluejean Baby at November 25, 2009 5:03 PM
It sounds like a bit of a mid-life crisis, those times you wake up in the middle of the night and wonder 'Is this it?'. It's not rational at all, but in the midst of that confusion wacky things can seem possible. Lots of men and women dump a spouse to chase after some perfect person who doesn't exist. I hope he wakes up and sees it for what it is.
crella at November 25, 2009 5:39 PM
Do these people read Amy's columns before they write such asinine questions? What answer do they expect? Perhaps he did and what he subconsciously wants is a wake up call (mission accomplished if that's true, good answer Amy). Ok, I'm chasing after a girl 15 years my junior at the moment but a) I'm single, and b) it's pretty much a game and I'm under no illusions as to anything coming of it, neither is she - but the flirting is fun. This guy is seriously considering ditching his family for a fantasy? It sounds like he has no idea whether she would even be interested. If you really want to leave, just go - but don't rationalise it by claiming it's to pursue your one true love.
Ltw at November 25, 2009 7:37 PM
I wondering if all this outrageous talk doesn't stem from a different issue altogether. I mean, how does leaving a wife at 39 for a crush back in high school make sense?
All of this stuff is very fantasy, dream driven type stuff. "Yesterday, my dream about her was so emotional that I nearly woke up in tears. I love my wife, but she's more like my best friend."
It's that piece right there that makes me think, "You don't have a real connection with this high school hot thing, what you really have is a sexual attraction problem with your wife". I mean, as a man, who says, "my wife is MORE like my best friend?" when a dude classifies a girl as just a friend, he's making a clear point that sleeping with her was never an option for him, and because of her looks. Not trying to sound like a pig or anything, but if I liked and a girl's personality to the point she was my "best friend", and she wasn't a knockout beauty, I would end up in bed with her if I had the chance. Sorry for the slight tirade, but the point here, I think, is that mr. crazy facebook stalker really needs to sit down with his wife and talk about sex, and how they could make it better. You don't have ridiculously emotional dreams of other women if you are being satisfied by the one in your life. I mean, you might dream cause you were wired to find Jessica Alba interesting, but it wouldn't interfere with the sleep schedule. This guy is ignoring the fact that he doesn't have enough desire for his wife by supplanting it with the fantasy desires of this other woman, among all the other stuff amy pointed out already.
if everything he says is true and she is his best friend, there's no reason not to take a shot at making the sex life better. Maybe the wife needs to lose some pounds or be more flirtatious with him to get his libido going, I dunno. Sounds like a far sounder plan than pursuing this other girl, where he connects with her by bringing up subjects listed under the "My Interests" banner of her facebook page.
Scott at November 26, 2009 5:27 AM
@Scott: "It's that piece right there that makes me think, 'You don't have a real connection with this high school hot thing, what you really have is a sexual attraction problem with your wife.'"
Maybe so, Scott, but I wonder if Crella's mid-life crisis comment above might be a little closer. I wonder if a lot of people don't have a kind of romatic perception of their younger years. Maybe pining away over a high school crush is another form of pining over one's lost youth.
old rpm daddy at November 27, 2009 5:16 AM
Gosh, you're supposed to have outgrown your high school crushes long before you hit 39.
"Maybe pining away over a high school crush is another form of pining over one's lost youth."
This might be it indeed; harbored regrets over a long unfulfilled fantasy, and hoping that he can somehow fulfill them now still. What didn't happen in high school, didn't happen. Hardly anyone gets to bone a popular chick in school, so LW has to 'get over it'. Or find some other way to (re)live his childhood without destroying his marriage.
Lobster at November 27, 2009 3:41 PM
Guys, he's only been married for four years, and these are his stepkids. Whether or not he has a chance with his high school crush, it seems to me like he settled for a life he really didn't want and is now regretting it.
I, too, married my best friend--a guy I wasn't in love with, and spent 12 miserable years in a loveless marriage. It's hell, and it makes you prone to wacky crushes and such. And marriage counseling cannot create love where it didn't exist in the first place.
Are you all really saying that marriage is never a mistake? That people are not allowed to turn around and go back after they discover they are on the wrong path? And doesn't this woman deserve someone that can give her his whole heart? Is he really supposed to stay with this woman for the sake of his nearly grown stepkids?
deathbysnoosnoo at November 28, 2009 7:46 AM
@Deathbysnoosnoo: "Guys, he's only been married for four years, and these are his stepkids. Whether or not he has a chance with his high school crush, it seems to me like he settled for a life he really didn't want and is now regretting it."
That may be, DBSS, but I suspect many people look back at the paths they didn't take with a mixture of melancholy and regret. And that's okay, as long as you can leave that past where it belongs. Does the LW's wife deserve someone who can give her his whole heart? Of course she does, and he should fulfill his promise to her to do that. After all, he did compare her to a best friend, and that's probably worth more than all the high school crushes of all the commenters on this site!
old rpm daddy at November 28, 2009 8:04 AM
The question dbss is why did you spend 12 whole years in a loveless marriage?
rich cook at November 28, 2009 3:15 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2009/11/for-better-or-m.html#comment-1679508">comment from rich cookSorry, you don't get to become part of a stable family and then hop along. If it's just you and some other adult, fine.
You need to decide what kind of person you are before you get into a serious relationship. Some people need to settle for some comfortable old shoe thing till death do them part. If you want excitement, you'll have to decide to take the risks that come with.
Amy Alkon at November 28, 2009 4:25 PM
'Guys, he's only been married for four years, and these are his stepkids.'
In my opinion he owes the stepkids at least as much as he would his own kids. In fact, you could argue he owes them more as they've already lost one dad to divorce.
These are the sorts of things he should think through before committing to becoming their dad. Just because they're not his flesh and blood doesn't make his commitment to them any less.
AntoniaB at November 28, 2009 7:08 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2009/11/for-better-or-m.html#comment-1679537">comment from AntoniaBAntoniaB is exactly right.
Amy Alkon at November 28, 2009 9:15 PM
You all are being dismissive of the power of our evolutionary drive to reproduce. He obviously comes from a very successful line. Like it or not the way that his brain is encoded is more successful evolutionarily speaking. There are more people like him, there will be even more people like him in the future. Marriage is an ancient trap that is not supportable by the fundamentals of science. In the future there might be an entire habitable planet named "pining" but there will definitly never be a habitable planet named "nag" because nagging is being selected against and nagging will always develop in the unnatural institution that is marriage.
Lord Stimulus at November 29, 2009 5:51 AM
Look, the LW is never going to know what he has missed until he gets that high-school hottie into bed, and rams it hard into every orifice for a real long time.
He should do it. Maybe that will get this deep and bona-fide need out of his system.
Ah, the one that got away. All men have these dark dreams, the girl who snubbed you when-oh-when. I have reached an age when I know some defeats are permanent, never to be re-done (besides, the girls I wanted are bagged out by now). This guy is young yet. He has a chance. He should go for it.
It's a guy thing. Women need not make comment.
Mr. Big Sphincter Mouth at November 29, 2009 1:00 PM
I recently reconnected - via MySpace, anyway - with my own high-school crush, after forty years. Fortunately, I had no current relationship to piss away by so doing, and she wasn't about to screw up hers.
The deep and bona fide needs are the ones we need to question most severely, I think.
CGHill at November 29, 2009 1:14 PM
Perhaps what he needs to do is to imagine him sitting his stepchildren down, explaining to them what he wants to do, and imagine what their response would be. How they would feel about seeing their mother's life torn apart, and what they would think about the man who did it to her.
If that doesn't cure him, then perhaps he should go. With luck, his fantasy woman won't go near him, and he'll get what he deserves.
Lou Shumaker at November 29, 2009 1:59 PM
What we don't need is another Jon Gosselin for Goodness sakes! I didn't get to be popular in school so now I'm leaving my wife and kids. Grow up! I absolutely loved your answer Amy, you rock!!
Marie at November 29, 2009 4:21 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2009/11/for-better-or-m.html#comment-1679646">comment from MarieThanks so much, Marie!
Amy Alkon at November 29, 2009 4:22 PM
Sigh, I know I shouldn't feed the troll but...
MBSM at Nov 29 1:00pm - you forgot the bit where he leaves his wife first if that's what he really wants then takes the consequences, like high school hottie turning him down in disgust - she's avoiding him dickhead, his chances of getting her into bed are somewhere between slim and fat. Yes we all have that dark side but some of us learn to control it. What he has to decide is whether he blows away his marriage for a fantasy, not whether to "get it out of his system" - it's unlikely he'll even get that option.
Can I resign from your part of the male race? I don't want to be one of the guys anymore.
Ltw at November 29, 2009 7:50 PM
Don't know what I would have done with this one. What a piece of work!!
I just feel badly for his wife. I wonder how'd she feel if she found out he actually wrote you a letter.
Ahh, another happy Facebook tale!
ONE of THE GUYS at November 30, 2009 4:49 AM
--And one more thing, LW, if you're reading, PLEASE do not share this with your wife in the spirit of *honesty*. This thing you've been harboring needs to die a quiet death of suffocation; bringing it into the light and sharing this with your wife will only hurt her, quite cruelly, I might add.
De-friend her on FB, and start pouring your energy into your marriage....
the other Beth at November 30, 2009 5:24 AM
Sorry to come back to this one so late, but LTW's an idiot. I have thought about girls that I had crushes on in high skrewel and college, but to actually look one up to try and kindle something would be INSANE! (AND I'M NOT EVEN MARRIED!)
Thanks for whacking this idiot with your clue-by-four, Amy.
mpetrie98 at November 30, 2009 6:20 AM
Oops, I meant LW, not LTW (Sorry, Ltw).
mpetrie98 at November 30, 2009 6:21 AM
"Still, I can't honestly say that if I'd asked her out, she'd have said no."
LW, yes you can, and frankly she did.
" I wrote her love letters and sent roses on her birthday, which she called to thank me for."
Yes, she called to thank you, but if she would have wanted to say yes to a date with you she would have done so after receiving your Love letters. You were already rejected several times in high school. You are being rejected now with her unavailability on facebook. Get past her, you have a woman that loves you right at your door step. Amy is spot on with her advice, you should take it. Love it Amy!
MizB at November 30, 2009 11:03 AM
What I find so deeply disturbing about this letter is how out of touch with reality the letter writer is. The whole fantasy is about this girl from high school, and he's 39, 21 years past high school. Fantasy girl may still be hot, in one classmate's opinion, but did he get a photo of her at the reunion? Letter Writer's actions have a lot of the hallmarks of the classic stalker.
Letter Writer, you must ask yourself, "I've built up such a fantasy about this girl, but what would my reaction be if she turns me down or turns out to be something other than what I've pictured in my fantasy?" If you can't even imagine that scenario or if the scenario makes you angry, you need help!
A good counselor would help you see the reality, and help you figure out why you feel the need to escape into this fantasy.
Jenny A at November 30, 2009 1:55 PM
It's ok mpetrie98, you were right the first time! One of the reasons I feel qualified to comment on the LW's idiocy is that I've done pretty much the same thing - somewhat different circumstances (no kids for one, and a bit closer to home, not someone I hadn't seen for 20 years) and I was a lot more aware of what I was doing than he seems to be. I acted a bit more honourably too I hope - still, I took a big risk, failed miserably, and hurt someone badly into the bargain. So you were accidentally correct.
Ltw at November 30, 2009 2:59 PM
I'm not condoning this person's behavior but I do understand what he's going through, and I think we all need to be careful not to be so judgemental. We are all flawed human beings whether we beleive that or not, no one is perfect. Amy's response makes a lot of sense, he is in love with and idea or image of himself or a feeling that he gets in relation to this other female.
Dale V. at December 4, 2009 4:00 PM
My eldest brother graduated from high school in 1955 when we lived for 4 years in Arkansas. The next year my dad moved us back to the Midwest, and being under age, he had to go with us.
He had fallen in love with a girl. They said they would wait until he became a legal adult, and he would come back to get her.
The mothers conspired and shortly after the move to the Midwest, they each told their child the other had married someone else. A G.D. lie that only sick witches would understand.
Time passed. They both married others. She lived in MS. He worked in several states, and in retirement ended up a few miles away from our Fifties home in Arkansas.
In 2005, he went to their 50th HS reunion. She was there and was a widow.
They got to talking, and soon found out what had been done to them. He left his very unpleasant wife, and at 68 years old ran off with his high school sweetheart, and they are allegedly legally married and living happily in MS.
Strange but true.
irlandes at December 12, 2009 9:22 PM
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