Eat, Pry, Love
I have a suggestion for the woman wondering whether her boyfriend really has money or is carrying a million in debt: run a credit check. A friend's daughter almost married a wonderful guy who turned out to be a gambling addict. After that, my friend started running credit checks on every guy his daughter started getting serious with (she was over 30 at the time). Some of us aren't the greatest choosers, and talented liars pick partners who can't or won't confront them, so a little sleuthing isn't unreasonable.
--Been Bitten
There are some good liars out there, but even the craftiest can't hide everything all the time. Something will eventually slip through the cracks. Sometimes, a femur. Remember, Scott Peterson didn't have a gambling problem. And sure, a credit check would probably pick up on a man who does. Unfortunately, it's illegal to do one without permission. And since the credit check, and who ordered it, will likely show up on the person's credit report, what you're suggesting is like throwing a brick through somebody's window, but taping your business card to it first.
Your friend apparently fails to see the irony in taking the devious approach to helping his daughter avoid the devious. He probably tells himself he's just protecting his little girl -- his little girl of 30-plus, who he never managed to teach to vet men for herself. He could really mess things up for her, should some nice guy find out Daddy's been feeling up his finances. Being in a relationship isn't license to gallop through a person's privacy. "Make yourself at home" means "my fridge is your fridge," not that you should feel free to scoop up hair and nail clippings and bribe somebody at the crime lab to run them through "Trace."
If you're continually ending up in the arms of con boys, you don't hire Nancy Drew; you work to change that. Don't assume you're a poor chooser. You might be an excellent chooser -- excellent at choosing the best partner to replay whatever number Mommy Dearest did on you. But, chances are, you're desperate for love -- making you desperate to ignore pesky inconsistencies that scream "That isn't his yacht, he doesn't work for the CIA," and in worst cases, "Get out before somebody has to get you out -- by digging between the rose bushes for your remains."
Of course, most bad guys you'll meet are serial jerks, not serial killers. To avoid them, lose any romantic notions about "love at first sight," which is really idiocy at first sight: deciding somebody's "the one" because they have a cute cowlick and broad shoulders and you haven't had sex for six months. This doesn't mean looking for love should give way to looking for evidence, just that you should reserve judgment until you've had ample time to see somebody's true character, which comes out in those little moments when they think nobody's looking.
To catch particularly clever cons, Dr. Barbara Oakley, author of Evil Genes, advises talking to "the little people" -- a receptionist, the janitor, someone who knows them in passing: people they aren't trying to win over. You should also meet the medium-sized people -- their friends, family, and co-workers -- and see if you all seem to be talking about the same guy. But, most important, you have to be comfortable enough being alone to want to know who somebody really is -- before they steal your heart, then head over to the pawn shop to see what they can get for your iPod and wide-screen TV.
Amy's right. You can't legally run a credit check on someone without their approval, and you need a SSN. Even if you somehow acquire their SSN and perform a credit check without their consent, it leaves a record.
I'd be very wary of having some woman's daddy poking around in my financial matters. It doesn't bode well, for multiple reasons.
James at December 29, 2009 6:10 PM
You're going to receive a lot of negative feedback for your comments about "love at first sight." But for what it's worth, I think you're correct.
Love isn't something that happens at first sight. Lust, yes. Love, no. You might meet someone that has all the physical attributes you like. You might even spot an intangible quality or two as you observe them doing something. But you cannot possibly know everything you need to know to your faith on something.
Of course, you'll hear from some smug idiots who say that it's happened to them. (Believe it or not, I knew a guy that he knew that love at first sight exists, because it's happened to him...several times. Dead serious. That's what he said.) Not love at first sight. They simply found a mutual attraction, and they discovered they had more in common. Some "get lucky." They simply got luckier in the crap shoot of acting on impulse.
Patrick at December 29, 2009 11:38 PM
I agree on the "love at first sight" thing. Love isn't something that just happens. It requires an active component; love is something you do, and doing it takes time.
As far as the credit-checking daddy goes, is there a term for people like him? I know what "helicoper parent" means, but it seems a little too mild to describe this guy.
old rpm daddy at December 30, 2009 4:14 AM
Helicopter, not helicoper. I knew I should have spell-checked that last comment!
old rpm daddy at December 30, 2009 4:16 AM
If I found out that my father was running credit checks on guys I was dating, there would be a MASSIVE row.
I like your advice about talking to the people in your date's life - a problem is that often you can be quite a long way into a relationship before you meet family, colleagues etc. By that time you might be so attached that it's easier to nnot notice or dismiss the odd incongruency here and there.
Anne de Vries at December 30, 2009 5:29 AM
A friend of mine's sister-in-law is a private investigator. She said she could have a guy run a credit check on someone for $225.00 and it wouldn't show up on their credit info. Just FYI.
David M. at December 30, 2009 5:53 AM
Wait, wait. If she had doubts (which, obvioiusly, she did) why didn't she run her own credit check? Daddy had to do it? That's wrong on so many levels. And yeah, Amy, you're right about the love at first sight thing, that's a myth. I honestly think it's something we sometimes tell ourselves to appease us about our bad choices. Seriously. Desperation is not a pretty thing, but the guys that pick up on it and use it to their advantage seem to be more than abundant, don't they?
Flynne at December 30, 2009 6:20 AM
A friend of mine used to ask guys to show her their licenses when they hit on her, no lie. It blew them away, but it weeded out liars, wimps, and men with no sense of humor immediately.
Pricklypear at December 30, 2009 7:37 AM
Licenses? What did that do for her, other thank confirm name and address?
Bill McNutt at December 30, 2009 7:42 AM
Seeing if they lied about their name and address is a good start. I've certainly heard variations of the "Bonjour, my name is Francois Dubois, helicopter pilot, Italian penthouse"...for some its standard pick up MO. OK, so it would take a complete idiot not to recognize THIS one, but there are certainly subtler approaches with the same intent.
moreta at December 30, 2009 7:57 AM
well, Suze Orman always suggests that before two people agree to marry they should see each others credit scores. I think it's good advice.
Gopala dasi at December 30, 2009 8:04 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2009/12/eat-pry-love.html#comment-1685514">comment from Bill McNuttA driver's license is the most easily forged piece of ID. I can get one made in your name with my picture on it in half an hour down at MacArthur Park.
Amy Alkon at December 30, 2009 8:06 AM
In addition to credit scores, let's order medical blood tests and criminal background checks. Try to fake those.
techie at December 30, 2009 9:09 AM
'A driver's license is the most easily forged piece of ID.'
True, but if the phony name he gives her doesn't even match the phony name on the phony license, it has the same affect. Insta-loser, buhbye.
Pricklypear at December 30, 2009 9:18 AM
I once had quite a few dates with a guy over two or three months - things were getting kind of serious - and we were out to lunch, and I happened to read his driver's license, as he was paying the check. Even upside down, I saw that it had a slightly different name than what he'd given me. So, I casually asked him what his full name was (thinking I need to do a background check!). It took him a few seconds to catch on, and he immediately slammed his wallet shut. He gave me a completely different middle name than what his license said. His first and last name were common, but I was still able to look him up by age (and the correct middle name). Nothing really awful. I found his marriage record, but no divorce record. I suspect that's probably what he was hiding, but his reaction and the fact that he lied about such a minor thing told me all I needed to know.
lovelysoul at December 30, 2009 10:14 AM
I'm pretty sure that LW's "friend" is in fact the LW...since the sign off is "Been Bitten." Perhaps obvious to everyone, though?
Anyone who does this, illegal or not, has major boundary issues. I agree with Amy--raise a child who can fend for himself/herself, and this scenario becomes a non-issue.
no one in particular at December 30, 2009 12:35 PM
This may be of interest.
A friend of mine was assaulted and stalked, had her stalker arrested, and subsequently received counseling for PTSD as part of the court ordered restitution.
In counseling, they *recommended* doing background checks on future dating prospects. Hell, they helped her procure and pay for the background checks.
It would certainly behoove the stalker's next girlfriend to do a background check and get a glimpse of his prison record. He's handsome, clean cut, charming, educated, financially secure, and has great curb appeal. What a catch!
You'd never know he's done time in San Quentin for domestic violence just by looking at him, and he's sure as hell not going to volunteer that information, now is he?
afurrica at December 30, 2009 12:46 PM
I have to agree with Amy completely, but I think she's being way too nice ( I hope you're not feeling under the weather, Amy =)) to the young woman and her father who "never managed to teach (her) to vet men for herself". At this point, I'm more concerned for her potential date/mate and what he'd be getting himself into than I am for her.
Adults, if they have good self-esteem and take their time getting to know someone, have all the tools they need to make good relationship decisions - if they get involved, what is/isn't acceptable, talking frankly and appropriately about finances and when to get out if necessary. If they need meddling parents at 30, then the problem isn't with the possible losers they attract, it's with them.
Happy New Year, everyone!
Elise at December 30, 2009 2:53 PM
..and take their time getting to know someone
That's the part that I think many women are trying to avoid. They don't want to waste their time. There's nothing wrong with that, but some cross the line between being pragmatic and being mercenary, which is when running credit checks on boyfriends and having them investigated seem acceptable. Because realistically it's not the potential that he's carrying a million dollars in debt that's the concern - you'd have to be very wealthy to be able to borrow a million dollars - it's that they want to determine how much he's really worth.
Manny at December 30, 2009 6:33 PM
You read my mind, Manny!
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