Want Lies With That?
My boyfriend of six months revealed that he's never been faithful to anyone, not even his wife of 10 years, whom he cheated on constantly because he married too young and made himself stay for the kids. Once he divorced, about a year ago, he decided never to lie or cheat again. He said he wants a future with me, wants to be honest about everything, and if there's anything I want to know, I should just ask. I believe in loving someone unconditionally and without judgment, and I have a lot of respect for him for telling me the truth. I'm just not sure if the chance is worth taking: whether he'd be unfaithful and break my heart into a thousand pieces.
--Loving Cautiously
In a new relationship, any guy can put his best foot forward, but maybe it takes a guy who really loves you to put his worst foot forward: warning you that you could be waiting for the other shoe to drop -- off the side of some other girl's bed.
Of course, he could also be warning you so that if he does cheat, well, you were warned. Commendable as it is that he's resolved never to lie or cheat again, he's been divorced a year and seeing you for half that time. That's a seriously short stretch of never -- especially for a guy who's never been faithful to anyone (presumably, even running around on some pigtailed 14-year-old with the junior high school hussy). And while he talks a remorseful game, he still explains his marital infidelity with the howler "I did it for the children." Paternal sacrifice is admirable, but more so when working three jobs to keep a roof over the kiddies' heads is what a father's been doing -- and not a string of bar floozies.
While many are quick to blame their cheating on a bum relationship, there seems to be a cheater personality. As I wrote in my column "Charlotte's (Tangled) Web," researchers Todd Shackelford and David Buss found three personality traits common to people prone to getting some on the side. There's narcissism -- being self-absorbed, self-important, lacking in empathy, and predisposed to exploiting others. The other two are low conscientiousness and high "psychoticism," clinical terms for a personality marked by impulsivity, unreliability, and an inability to delay gratification. So...any of this seem familiar?
Clearly, the last thing you should be engaging in is "unconditional love." Sounds beautiful, but that's love minus discernment, which isn't love at all, but projectile sentimentality. Seeing whether he's turned over a new leaf takes ongoing discernment -- even beyond the two-year point. On average, that's how long the happiness high people get from marrying seems to last, according to social psychologist Sonja Lyubomirsky. For you two, the hot new thing phase might end sooner or later, but this at least gives you some sort of marker to go by. You know, seasons change, leaves fall...panties drop?
It's a good thing and a bad thing, having your relationship front-loaded with news of his zipper management issues. For day-to-day peace of mind, you want "I wonder if he'll ever cheat" to maybe be a footnote on page 33 of your relationship story, not in bold type at the top of page one. On a positive note, you should be less likely to let monogamy slip into monotony. And, while most couples take for granted that both partners will be on their faithful best behavior, having this out in the open might help him focus on what really matters to him, and how he'll deal, should temptation slide its hotel room key down the bar.
What brought about his epiphany?
Remember trust should be earned not given. Especially in this case.
"Loving someone unconditionally" or unconditional love is a joke and I'm sick of hearing about it.
I had to explain this to a female friend the other day. If you have a partner and/or child and they turn out to be Otis Toole, Charles Manson or Adolf hitler are you going to love them "unconditionally."
If a person hits you in the head with a hammer everytime you come home are you going to love them "unconditionally?"
Everything has conditions and if this guy ever cheats on you I doubt that you will love him "unconditionally."
"Unconditionally" is a fantasy word that too many people have bought into.
David M. at January 13, 2010 6:02 AM
"Unconditionally" is a fantasy word that too many people have bought into.
Amen, David M.! Besides, he already gave her a "condition" - he's cheated before, so it's likely he'll cheat again. He's just pretty much covering his ass for when (not if) it happens again. That way, he's got an out. "I told ya so." Leopards don't change their spots, ya know. If she wants to give a chance, hey, that's all well and good. But he's given her fair warning, and she should really take that to heart. Asking herself if she can deal with it if he does cheat is one thing. To actually be cheated on is gonna open a whole new can o' worms. She needs to decide if she's strong enough to handle that. Or even if she wants to have to deal with it. She won't really know, though, until it happens.
Flynne at January 13, 2010 6:20 AM
I spent way too much time in a relationship where I realize in hindsight I was thinking, "I know leopards don't change their spots, but maybe my zebra can change his stripes!"
When making your decision, LW, I advise putting self-respect before "unconditional love."
Melissa G at January 13, 2010 6:38 AM
Sadly, David M, although I agree with you there are people who do continue to unconditionally love their partners after all the examples you mentioned.
As far as the LW's question goes - well, I know that there's a really good chance he'll cheat again, but if it were me and I felt like that about someone I'd probably take the chance. So I'm not going to say she shouldn't do it. And it probably won't work out but broken hearts heal you know. She should keep her eyes open about it though - not distrust, but decide upfront what she's willing to deal with, make it clear to him where the line is, and follow through if she catches him at it.
Ltw at January 13, 2010 6:40 AM
Well, I'll say she shouldn't do it. She may love him now, but once she's been betrayed, her love won't feel so "unconditional" anymore. Hopefully, if she's smart, she'll get out before she's married and has children with this guy.
I wish I'd known about the cheater personality before I made a commitment to one. I think it should be mandatory study for every high school student or young adult.
People who cheat ONCE may be able to change. If they did it, completely out of character, or in a "weak moment" and deeply regret their actions, then it might be worth sticking around and seeing if there's a permanent change. But serial cheaters DO NOT CHANGE.
He's warning her, and even feeling self-important because he's so "honest" about it. This brilliant, manipulative move gives him both the "in" and the "out". LW should take this as a cue to exit.
lovelysoul at January 13, 2010 7:28 AM
I am a firm believer in the notion that people do not search long enough or hard enough for their true match, and commonly settle for less, which accounts for so many cheating spouses and divorces. People rush to marriage when they probably already know that the person they are with is most likely not their match. We get fooled into thinking that time spent with that person (even though they are not our match) has been wasted, when in fact, it should be counted as "experience" and if they are not your match, then move on.
The LW needs to discern whether the guy is her match, regardless of his past. We all have a past. Some of us would be better off keeping it to ourselves ;)
Bluejean Baby at January 13, 2010 7:32 AM
I'm guessing LW is young and has not had an emotional stomping before. Listen to "Jagged Little Pill" and go for it, kid!
Unconditional love is a pretty concept, but that's about it.
Pricklypear at January 13, 2010 7:36 AM
Unconditional love doesn't mean you put up with being hit over the head with a hammer or aid and abet your little Charles Manson in covering up his crimes. You can still love the person while packing your things to leave or showing the police the fresh graves in the basement.
I'm sure the Unabomber's brother still loves him. Yet he turned him into the authorities to pay for his crimes.
Too many people approach love and marriage as if Cinderella was a documentary.
Conan the Grammarian at January 13, 2010 8:54 AM
I suspect that she's young as well, and agree that it's unlikely that he's going to remain faithful.
Something that I've noticed about serial cheaters is that they like to anchor themselves in a stable ,ostensibly monogamous, relationship. So they'll pursue people like the LW who'll provide that, but once they've settled in, they start cheating again.
The fact that this guy wants to commit to another relationship so soon after a 10yr marriage strikes me as an example of this phenomenon.
He's probably completely sincere, right now, but that doesn't change the fact that he has a long established pattern of behavior with multiple women spanning over a decade.
Momo at January 13, 2010 9:20 AM
When I met my ex, he told me he had "never cheated," but he was a very "social, flirtatious" person, and that I should try to understand and accept that's who he was.
He said his first wife "didn't like going out" so he would often leave her and go party at clubs, like Studio 54 - surrounded by beautiful models - but, you know, he "never cheated" because he just believed that was wrong. Dancing, drinking, flirting, and even sometimes giving them a ride home was ok, since he "never cheated."
I gave him BIG points for honesty, thinking this meant he was so trustworthy because he was honest enough to tell me stuff like this, and I failed to realize what he was REALLY telling me: that he didn't give a shit about his first wife's feelings, and that I, like her, would often find myself home alone, wondering where he was and who he was with, and that our marriage would include many suspicious-seeming relationships with other women...and, most importantly, that he needed my acceptance of this because he would always put himself first.
There's more to cheating than physical infidelity. Betrayal can take many forms. But I do think people like this often tell you what you need to know. The key is to really listen.
The LW's boyfriend is not actually taking responsibility for his cheating, blaming it on "marrying young", which is bogus. Plenty of people marry young and don't cheat.
What he is saying is that he felt he didn't get enough sexual exploration and excitement before marrying, so he decided he deserved not to let the committment of marriage stand in the way of his fun. He is saying that he did not even consider the needs of his wife or his children, figuring that "staying" with them, even while lying and cheating was enough. In short, he is saying that he was (and probably still is) an extremely selfish, self-absorbed person.
If you're going to consider staying with this guy, you better look for more than his just not cheating at the moment. That can be like going on a diet, but the underlying reason for his cheating, his self-absorption, is still there.
Unless he starts volunteering at soup kitchens or joins the Peace Corps - or shows amazing empathy and selflessness in other ways - you can't say he's substantially changed. It's not all about sex. It's about fundamentally who he is.
lovelysoul at January 13, 2010 9:40 AM
Repeated past behavior is the best, surest indicator of future behavior.
Joe at January 13, 2010 10:26 AM
Consider that six months to be a learning experience and possibly a good time, and get out now. Otherwise, you'll be writing this next year:
"I am six months pregnant with my first child and I just found out that my fiance is cheating on me with my best friend! I am heartbroken! He cheated before, but promised things would be different when we got engaged. He said he loved me and he wanted to change! I don't want to be a single mother. We've been together for almost two years, and I really love him. He says he'll never do it again. Is this a chance worth taking?"
Seriously, GET. OUT.
There are plenty of other guys out there who are just as nifty as Cheaty McSleazypants, but who aren't fixer uppers.
I know it's tempting to think that you will be THE ONE, the special woman who reforms this asshole and is so super awesomely perfect that he will never cheat on YOU, but it doesn't matter how great you are, he will cheat, because that's who he is.
What's the expression? When people tell you who they are, you should believe them.
afurrica at January 13, 2010 11:20 AM
>>"Of course, he could also be warning you so that if he does cheat, well, you were warned."
You know, I hate that crap. Like you should be able to forgive someone for something abominable they've done because "I warned you it could be like this."
My best friend's last boyfriend did something like this. He warned her a couple of times that he'd had "anger problems" in the past and "gotten physical" with his ex-girlfriends. But he'd changed now. She told him upfront that she would not tolerate being touched or being afraid of him, and that was a dealbreaker. "Oh, it's different with you."
But the first (and only) time he shoved her into a corner, he later said "I warned you I had anger problems!". Like it was supposed to make up for the fact that he'd pushed her around! Like she should've been prepared for that and been okay with it! ARGH!
>>"What's the expression? When people tell you who they are, you should believe them."
Afurrica, I love that. I'd never heard it before.
cornerdemon at January 13, 2010 11:56 AM
I also agree with the point that Momo made that many cheaters like to have stable relationships as anchors. A certain percentage of cheaters get a high from the risk of being caught and without a relationship, who can they cheat on?
In fact, it's telling that he's only decided not to cheat since he's become single and doesn't have a wife to cheat on. It would be more promising if he'd come to this epiphany at some point during his marriage.
Cheaters are usually very insecure, deep down, and need to know they have a relationship as a base of love, support, and validation in case their other conquests fail.
It's a high probability that someone who "cheated constantly" for 10 years would be that type.
You'd think he'd want to be single and play the field, especially since he married so young and has only been divorced a year, but my guess is that he needs that relationship anchor. As soon as he gets it, he'll start cheating again.
lovelysoul at January 13, 2010 12:38 PM
If the LW has been dating this guy in bf/gf exclusivity for 6 months, and this comes as a surprise, then her reality glasses need a new prescription.
Seriously...the biggest problem here is NOT her bf's romantic opportunism, but her own poor judgement and probably concurrent narrow relationship skillset.
With some personal growth, she could have the skills and confidence to manage him and the relationship to her own satisfaction, or leave him without heartbreak.
IMO her bf's words are probably a mixture of truth and self justifying fiction, but it doesn't MATTER. People say all sorts of crap ALL THE TIME.
One needs to develop the ability to discern reality regardless of the random noises coming out of peoples mouths.
Hint: You do this by looking at their actions, not words, and the evidence at hand.
Peter at January 13, 2010 12:43 PM
I find the definition of narcissism interesting: There's narcissism -- being self-absorbed, self-important, lacking in empathy, and predisposed to exploiting others.
They seem to be logically connected. I would say two sides of the same coin, but there's four of them. So, perhaps they're four facets of the same gem. If one is self-important, then it would naturally follow that one is self-absorbed. And with all this rampant me-ism going on, it would only make sense that this subject would have a lack of empathy. And if a lack of empathy is in place, why not exploit others? If you don't see them as significant, then they are useful tools to forward the greater good: oneself.
impulsivity...that, in and of itself is probably sufficient to remove me from the "cheater's profile." I'm the least impulsive person I know. And I detest it in other people.
Patrick at January 13, 2010 12:54 PM
All of the above. LW, please don't think that "unconditional love" is going to make him see the error of his ways. You can't fix him because he isn't fixable. Go put your time and effort into a guy who doesn't need fixing.
Cousin Dave at January 13, 2010 1:20 PM
WHen someone tells you how bad they are in relationships, believe them. Then leave. Nothing else to say.
momof4 at January 14, 2010 6:58 AM
I wonder if it's a particular American trait to believe in this sort of redemptive change. Are people in other countries this blindly hopeful? We Americans seem to embrace the idea that people can change so radically. We make movies about it, forgive our celebrities their "sex addictions" and criminal behavior if only they go to "rehab" or counseling. Yet, how many of us have actually seen a real, long-lasting reversal of character?
I can't think of a single instance right now. It seems to me that people are pretty much who they are in character, usually by their 20s, but certainly by their 30s.
There are some people I know who, after major religious conversions, appear to have changed character, but for most part, this just doesn't happen often.
lovelysoul at January 14, 2010 7:19 AM
"It seems to me that people are pretty much who they are in character, usually by their 20s, but certainly by their 30s."
I have noticed that many people who start dating in their early 20s are usually over by the time they are 30 (regardless of marriage and/or kids). My theory is that there is 1 more wave of character development that happens in your mid to late 20s. If the 2 people do not develop in the same general direction then the couple does not last into their 30s.
I am not sure if it has to do with character development or simply that "life" begins happening and the individuals respond in different ways. It's easy to be a happy couple when you are young and just finishing school and the whole world is a party. Then comes work, kids, homes, finances, job loss etc... Then it's not so easy to cope...and the major differences in coping mechanisms come out.
Just an observation...
Karen at January 14, 2010 8:18 AM
Leave the unconditional love to dogs, they're better at it.
brian at January 14, 2010 10:53 AM
This time it'll be different.
The check is in the mail.
I believe we all know the other one.
MarkD at January 14, 2010 12:48 PM
This is a nice appeal to her ego. "I couldn't be faithful to the mother of my children, but you, you're different."
MonicaP at January 15, 2010 9:13 AM
Consider this your giant, do not pass go or collect $500, RED FLAG.
Consider your own value, worth, and needs. So he made a NYE-like resolution not to cheat or lie again?! Whatever. The man has oodles of porn, women he chats w/ online and via text, and he's flirty with everyone. Now, if you can handle that, consider your response when he approaches you with "I'm really sorry, but this just...kinda...happened."
He's thrown you a lifesaver. This is his 'fall back' for when he Fs up the relationship later. Try not making it a mutual F-up by leaving now. Wear red high heels when you do.
Good luck, lady. There are others out there who don't engage in extramarital behavior and with whom you won't have to worry about conditional love and STDs.
Consider what kind of role model this father figure is to his children, let alone what he represents to the community.
Nice.
Grade A Jerk-Face, I think. :)
Word Wench at January 15, 2010 9:38 AM
This is a nice appeal to her ego. "I couldn't be faithful to the mother of my children, but you, you're different."
Or perhaps he's trying to say "I'll be faithful till you get pregnant".
Ltw at January 15, 2010 3:28 PM
@Conan the Grammarian - mentioning the Unabomber's brother is a great example. A number of years ago I heard him talk about the difficulty of making the decision to turn in his brother Ted, but ultimately realizing that if Ted was responsible he could not in good conscience let him continue to kill innocent people. I was a thoughtful and moving discussion about how to try and do your best for someone you love, but at the same time protecting those who are being hurt. He said that the hardest part for him was bringing all this to his mother's attention.
AntoniaB at January 16, 2010 1:22 PM
"Yet, how many of us have actually seen a real, long-lasting reversal of character?
I can't think of a single instance right now. It seems to me that people are pretty much who they are in character, usually by their 20s, but certainly by their 30s."
I can think of many instances ... I've seen many people change, often quite dramatically, and at any age, including 50+ and even 70+. Sometimes it has been for the better, sometimes for the worse - odds seem about even either way. I've seen it in relatives, friends, in relationships, and in myself.
Lobster at January 16, 2010 4:01 PM
"WHen someone tells you how bad they are in relationships, believe them. Then leave. Nothing else to say."
My experiences bear this out too :(
"What's the expression? When people tell you who they are, you should believe them."
Likewise for this.
Odds are very good this guy will cheat, so you just have to decide if you're willing to accept that.
Lobster at January 16, 2010 4:04 PM
Well, define "cheating."
I do not think having extra-marital sex is cheating. No guy really does.
Mr. Short Dick at January 18, 2010 11:54 AM
"You can't fix him because he isn't fixable. Go put your time and effort into a guy who doesn't need fixing."
Definitely, David. No one can "fix" anyone but themselves and if LW put the effort into fixing herself - concentrating on building her self esteem and realizing what makes her happy is important - then she probably wouldn't be writing this letter asking if she should "wait" until he cheats to bail.
dena at January 19, 2010 4:36 AM
Okay, so I think we might need a Devil's Advocate here......
I totally disagree! I believe with all my heart that people CAN see the errors of their ways, and decide to make a major change in their lives. Think of all the former drug users and smokers. Think of all the reformed alcoholics. Think (like was mentioned already) of the people who "get God". I belive that we are all capable of making major changes, and honestly, why do cheaters have to ALWAYS be the exception? Yes, i'll give it to all of you that cheating is a tough one, but I have known of people who have succesfully made that, um, adjustment in their lives. Long term. I say keep your eyes open, be aware, and if you really care for this person, give it a shot. As long as you know his past, and are willing to deal with the repercussions if he CAN'T make that major of a shift, then why not? The world would be a bleak place indeed if we were truly all doomed to repeat past mistakes....
jenney at January 19, 2010 11:47 AM
"Once he divorced, about a year ago, he decided never to lie or cheat again."
Key phrase - about a year ago. What IF the LW has known him longer than she is letting on? Hmmm. This sounds like a classic case of rationalizing by minimizing.
techie at January 19, 2010 2:16 PM
"zipper-management issues." excellent.
jane at January 25, 2010 6:00 AM
Hey hey hey! Cheaters can change! (I haven't read all the way through and I'm weeks late on this, but I wanna say it!) I was a bona fide cheater. The other "woman" in a marriage, (I was 18-19, he was in his 30s.) only ever had one "boyfriend" b/c I prefered dating... though I never actually told the guys I was dating that. I was dating two guys when I met my husband. We met on Tuesday... I dropped the other two by Friday. I have been with my husband for 9 years now (married almost 7), we have two amazing kiddos (4 and 7mos) and I would NEVER cheat again. I told him when I realized that I was serious about him (and hadn't been with anyone else during that time!) that I had never been faithful to anyone before but that I felt differently about him than I had the others and that I would never be unfaithful, I respected him enough to end what we had before going elsewhere if I felt the urge. He took a HUGE leap of faith trusting me in that his mother was a cheater and he DESPISES cheaters.
So, was I maybe just an impulsive college girl who preferred to play the field? Probably. But I know that it's possible for people to change that about themselves!
Kel at February 16, 2010 4:32 PM
This isn't intended to be an attack on any of the commenters, just an observation.
What I get from listening to the comments here is that coming out and being honest about his past was a bad decision, if he wants to continue the relationship. Instead he should have just kept his secret to himself. Would that have been a better course? For whom?
If cheaters never can actually change, and this fellow wants to be a nice guy, he should never have another relationship again?
Anonymous at May 1, 2010 11:44 PM
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