Leave Will Keep Us Together
Thanks to your column, I'm a recovering wimp, now asking women out. So, any pointers for first dates? Dinner or drinks? Things to avoid doing or saying?
--Girlfriend-Seeking
For best results, sell yourself like soap. When Procter & Gamble wants you to try a new laundry detergent, they mail you a little packet of the stuff; they don't throw a two-gallon jug over your fence and kill your dog. Likewise, the point of the first date is seeing if it makes sense to go on a second date, not letting a girl know how ashamed you were when you wet the bed at sleepaway camp. Too much emotional intimacy right away can feel creepy in retrospect. Or, you run the risk of getting attached first, then finding out how wrong a girl is for you later. To avoid going into overtime, overspend, and overshare, make the first date cheap, local, and short. Meet for a drink, for maybe an hour and a half. Have something you have to rush off to afterward. Even if it's just a conference call at your place. With your hamster listening in on the extension.
Comments
Sounds like sensible advice, Amy. Why spend everything in the way of money, time, and energy on a first or second date? I think guys do this to impress the girl, never once considering that the girl also has to impress him.
Posted by: Patrick at February 17, 2010 1:28 AM
Yeah, that sounds about right. Don't overdo it, and try to have a little fun.
Posted by: old rpm daddy at February 17, 2010 4:36 AM
In line with what Patrick had to say . . . . remember - *you* are interviewing *her* for the possible job of girlfriend . . . or if that seems too over the top, you are interviewing her for the temp position of next Wednesday.
Posted by: railmeat at February 17, 2010 8:31 AM
Two additions...
Invest some time locating venues that suit the 1.5 hour purpose: wine bars, coffee shops, and nice pubs (restaurants beg the question 'why not a big meal?'). Most have URLs and snapshots, you can research from home. Pick ones that are clean, well appointed, and unique. Jot down one of each in various parts of town so you'll always know one that's convenient for you both.
Then, involve her before you ask her. Does she like wine? Some women prefer a jack and coke, frankly. Some folks are non-drinkers.
Now you're the guy who knows the good spot with the drinks she prefers and you're happy to steal an hour or so from your schedule just for her.
Posted by: TL at February 17, 2010 9:27 AM
TL - It sounds like a great idea. Someone who is happy to steal time out of their schedule just for me would certainly impress me.
Posted by: Emmy at February 17, 2010 10:24 AM
Thinking of a date as an interview for potential girlfriend probably isn't the best way to go about it-too much pressure all around.
And spending too much time, money, and energy on a girl ISN'T going to impress her-it's more likely going to make her uncomfortable because you end up looking over-the-top and desperate. (Think turtle earrings). Sure you'll attract girls, but they'll be either the gold-diggers or the equally desperate.
Having a list of date venues on hand is a GREAT idea. It makes you look knowledgeable, confident, and fun. There's nothing worse than a guy asking you out without a plan for what he actually wants to do/go.
Posted by: Shannon at February 17, 2010 11:19 AM
Amen on the no TMI. I went on a Lunchdates date with a guy once, who proceeded to tell me all about how he and his father had a terrible relationship growing up and how he is still affected by it, blah blah blah... NOT good first date material.
Posted by: NicoleK at February 17, 2010 1:09 PM
Shannon, you evidently missed my point - lemme try again . . .
I'm not out to impress anyone - least of all a person I barely know. The mind set of the 'interview' is that my date had better impress *me*. Another way of looking at this is that I'm not selling, I'm buying. And I'm picky.
You are correct - spending lots of money, time, and energy early on - *especially* a first date, does reek of neediness. And that must be avoided at all cost.
The desperate "I hope she likes me" vibe is reduced, IMO, if you think in terms of an interview. Not more pressure, but less.
'least on me.
Posted by: railmeat at February 17, 2010 2:05 PM
Railmeat, why would you even ask a woman on a date if you aren't interested in her enough to want to impress her? Are you the only one "buying" on the date? I always thought the date was like a two-way interview, if you like that analogy.
I never went on dates unless I liked something about the guy, and liking something about them meant I hope they liked me too. It's not desperate to hope that, I was fine if they didn't call back. But why go out if you aren't excited about it?
Posted by: Sam at February 17, 2010 2:27 PM
I agree that, early in, it pays to keep expectations low key. You want to avoid the "scorekeeping" trap, where one party feels like they owe, or are owed, something: "He asked me out to the most expensive place in town; does he expect me to jump in the sack with him?" or "She's dressed really revealing for this; I hope she doesn't think that two dates makes us an item".
I only had one hard-and-fast rule when I was dating: if a woman stood me up for a first or second date, that was it. Saved me a lot of grief.
Posted by: Cousin Dave at February 17, 2010 3:06 PM
Who says I'm not excited? If I've risked rejection and asked for a woman's number, called her up, planned some sort of event, taken time out of my day, and then spent money to make it happen, it's fair to say that I'm interested in finding out more about her.
People are impressed by me, or they are not. Either way, the outcome is not in my hands. So I don't worry about impressing people - especially those that I hardly know - like the woman I'm with on a first date.
Posted by: railmeat at February 17, 2010 4:31 PM
Dating is such sweet sorrow.
Posted by: Crash at February 17, 2010 8:00 PM
More advice for LW: be specific. Don't do like some douchebag a while back in Amy's column and leave her a voicemail telling her he and some people would be at Happy Hour. Ask her on a real date; women are more impressed with guys who take the risk.
Posted by: NumberSix at February 17, 2010 8:52 PM
I've always thought that a short first date was good and that it should leave you wanting to see more of the other person. However I've now run into a number of guys who have this idea that if we hit it off, we'll 'forget time' and spend the rest of the day together. And that my wanting to keep it short(ish) because I wanted to get home on public transport at a reasonable time, must mean that I wasn't into them and we weren't clicking and shouldn't see eachother again...
Posted by: Anne de Vries at February 18, 2010 2:07 AM
Railmeat is right about not worrying about trying to impress a date. You can't control what others think of you. Why bother worrying about it?
However, it helps to mind your manners on the first several dates. Just because you can "belch the alphabet" like a bullfrog on steroids, 'you know, it's a guy thing,' doesn't mean you should.
The first several dates with my BF were like job interviews. I enjoyed them, but both of us were looking for deal breakers. Didn't happen to find any and we're still together.
Posted by: ju2144 at February 18, 2010 3:49 AM
