Moment Of "Poof!"
This guy I met online seemed so perfect when we talked on the phone. We then had the perfect date -- talking into the wee hours and ending up in bed. Then, poof! He was gone. Not even a return phone call. I'd understand if we'd had a so-so time. But, we had great fun -- the most I've had in ages. So...was he on a different date than I was...or what?
--Slammed
Here's a man you could've been with forever -- if only you'd taken the liberty of cuffing him to the chair in your front room.
But, it seemed like the perfect date! Well, maybe his idea of perfection is romancing the hell out of a woman, getting her into bed, and getting outta Dodge. Or maybe, he decided to never see you again, but figured he'd see you naked first. You want to believe "This is love!" not "This is yet another guy who wants to get some while his girlfriend's on business in Boston." But, because of a common human cognitive error called "confirmation bias," you're prone to pay attention to stuff that suggests "We're meant for each other!" and ignore stuff that suggests he's thinking "For about five-and-a-half hours."
The human brain is a shifty little critter. Some evolutionary psychologists believe early humans would've been paralyzed by a clear picture of harsh (sometimes saber-toothed) reality, so we evolved the ability to shut down information-processing accuracy in the face of scary or ugly. So, you take in information -- wow, funny guy...nice Mercedes!...hmmm, 11 a.m. and he smells like gin. Your brain arranges the positive stuff in lit glass showcases in the front of your consciousness and dumps what you don't want to know behind boxes in some dusty storeroom...leaving you shocked when you finally hear "those three little words," and they're "That's All, Folks!"
Beyond your brain's tendency to say "Gee, that's depressing. I think I'll believe this instead!" if you're like many women, finding love isn't enough; you need a great story behind it: "We were childhood sweethearts, then we never saw each other again -- until that day in the Peace Corps when we literally bumped into each other in the jungle." When your story's something like "He 'winked' at me on AmishMatch.com," and especially if you're on the lonely/desperate side, it's tempting to fab it up with "Love at first sight! We just knew!" As opposed to "We found lots to like but thought we'd get to know each other before calling it more than a consistently good time."
When things get really intense really fast, it can feel like you burned through the entire relationship in a single date. The faster things move, the more likely a guy is to feel you're just dates away from fitting him with his electronic dog collar. Plus, it's a downer to a guy if it's no work to win you -- if he immediately has you eating out of his hand like a deer. Now, if you don't care if you ever see a guy again, and think it's unlikely he buried his last date behind his garage, go ahead and have sex on the first date. Otherwise, cross your legs for at least a few dates, and swap use of the P word, as in Mr. Perfect, for the other P word, Mr. Perhaps. Look only to have a good time, and you're less likely to find yourself "On a date with destiny!" while the guy across the table from you is on a date with...wait, is it LuvNLife777 or gurl4u29?
Amy, once again, you're spot-on with your analysis of the situation. I've always thought the first "date" should be more like a business meeting than anything else. Meet the guy, have coffee in public - STAY IN PUBLIC - especially with guys off the internet. You just never know if there IS a g/f buried behind his garage. But seriously, getting to know someone IN PERSON is totally different than over a dating site, even if you're sure because you've seen him on webcam. Even webcams can be deceiving.
Amy's for instance of smelling gin on his breath at 11am is a great example. This is something you'd NEVER know by conversing on a chat site. Peculiar little foibles about a person can sometimes turn your crank, but conversely, they can sometimes turn you off. The entire package has to be viewed, observed from different angles, spoken with face-to-face, and more than once, to know for sure if he's having you on, or just having a good day. How can you possibly know what he's really like on the first date? Didn't your Mamma tell you that men can be baseless, superficial hound dogs??? Okay, some women can be that way too, but the subject here is the disappearing man.
Call me old fashioned, but i think that holding off on sex is still the proper thing to do, not because of society's "norms" but so we can retain our sanity.
Sure, you had a good time, but how do you really know that he had a good time when you really don't even know him?
Yes, he disappeared! So smarten up and don't jump into bed with any more men you really don't know, even when you think you do know them. Savour the enjoyment of spending time, instead of spending money on motel rooms.
Bluejean Baby at April 13, 2010 8:09 PM
You had a perfect date, great fun, and sex. It couldn't, and wouldn't, get any better. Why ruin a great night by actually getting to know this guy?
catspajamas at April 13, 2010 8:23 PM
Yes, he was on a different date... In his mind, you were nothing more than a notch on his bedpost.
He is already scamming on his next victim - the newest chickie to join the online personals... on 50 other sites.
Don't be surprised when he completely ignores you online, and refuses to respond if you try chat with him.
Get tested for STDs asap!
If you want to 'play' 'the player', set up a fictitious profile with a gorgeous photo of another woman, and see how fast he sends you an invitation. Lure him in, get him all excited about meeting you, set up a hot date, stand him up, then never reply to any of his messages. It won't cure him, but it may make you feel better and give you a good laugh.
Ravenna3 at April 13, 2010 8:34 PM
Confirmation bias usually applies to scientific studies, particularly in the field of psychology. But it certainly applies to human relationships as well. It's how to make Mr. Right out of Mr. Right Now.
Terrific column, Amy. Last sentence, second paragraph, was posted to Facebook, linked to your column here.
Patrick at April 13, 2010 8:34 PM
Ever see the sitcom "Two and a Half Men"? The LW could be any of Charlie's women, except I don't think he ever meets them online.
Rex Little at April 13, 2010 9:26 PM
It's how to make Mr. Right out of Mr. Right Now.
Men seem to be pretty good at noticing when a woman's doing that, too. How many times have you heard a story from a guy about a first date that was mentioning that she'd always dreamed of honeymooning in Italy/settling down by the water/having two girls and two boys? As far as first date horror stories go, women's tend to be of the "he ogled every woman in the place and asked me how I felt about threesomes" type, while men's tend to be more along the lines of "this chick was so desperate she was trying to flag down a minister across the restaurant." Men can tell when a woman's desperate for the fairytale romance and split-level in the suburbs she feels she's due.
On the whole, men tend not to date women who throw themselves at men they have just met. They'll be fine with sex, but not with a relationship. And I don't think it's just because they're mindless, horny beasts. I think it's more because women who do that and expect a relationship afterward are shouting "Love me and I'll give you this in exchange!" It's a way to force intimacy.
If you want to 'play' 'the player', set up a fictitious profile with a gorgeous photo of another woman, and see how fast he sends you an invitation. Lure him in, get him all excited about meeting you, set up a hot date, stand him up, then never reply to any of his messages.
Seriously? How exactly will this help either of them? This so-called revenge is only going to set her back further.
It won't cure him, but it may make you feel better and give you a good laugh.
Why does she need to cure him? I'm not convinced from the letter that he was preying on women all over the internet like you suggest. From the info LW gave us, I think it's more likely that he sensed her desperation for a relationship, saw that she was willing to sleep with him, and had himself a good time. Like I said above, men don't usually want relationships with women who are desperate, but if she was offering sex, I can't really blame him for taking her up on it. I don't know that I'd want to date him, either, but that doesn't make him a bad guy. The only thing your advice will do is make her giddy over dumping the responsibility onto him, while she really needs to start being more introspective. He didn't force her into bed with him. They both had a good time, but they both had different expectations of the outcome.
I do think he should have answered on of her phone calls so he could explain that he doesn't want to date her. It would be good for him not to hide, and it would be good for her to hear about the effects her actions had. She might learn something about herself if he was honest and straightforward with her. It seems she needs someone, perhaps one of those "cut the bullshit" friends, to tell her what's what.
NumberSix at April 13, 2010 9:42 PM
If you want to 'play' 'the player', set up a fictitious profile with a gorgeous photo of another woman, and see how fast he sends you an invitation. Lure him in, get him all excited about meeting you, set up a hot date, stand him up, then never reply to any of his messages.
Don't date players and then you won't have to play them.
Amy Alkon at April 14, 2010 12:31 AM
Amy said "Otherwise, cross your legs for at least a few dates".
I must have always gone for the wrong type of woman, because I've only dated 1 woman who didn't sleep with me on the first date, and she slept with me on the second.
If I'm ever single again, I think I'll try it myself, to see if it helps me judge her better.
William (wbhicks@hotmail.com) at April 14, 2010 5:46 AM
So obviously you didn't really know this guy and if you never see him again you slept with someone who was basically a complete stranger.
By having sex so soon in a relationship the guy is always thinking sex if you get together.
He really will not get to know you from the neck up, because his thoughts are now going to be from the neck down.
If someone slept with me on the first date I wouldn't think of them as long-term relationship material.
David M. at April 14, 2010 6:28 AM
I wouldn't sleep with my fiance until we'd both been tested for STDs. That took about three months. Yes, I'm a whack job, but we're getting married in five days, so I guess he was OK with it.
MonicaP at April 14, 2010 6:47 AM
Ravenna3,
Please stay away from men until you resolve those anger and resentment issues.
Thanks.
-- a man
Spartee at April 14, 2010 6:52 AM
You all gave very, very good answers. I'm not a psychologist or behavioral expert. I'm just a regular gal speaking from experience.
Am I cynical? Am I suspicious in assuming the guy's a player? You bet. My father was a player who involved his children (myself included) in suckering women into thinking they were "special", and had us helping him hide the fact that he was playing numerous women all at the same time. I watched a pro. And he didn't even have the internet as a tool back then.
The clue for me that the LW's date considered her a notch on his bedpost was that he disappeared after the date. Plain and simple. A gentleman doesn't hide like a coward... he tells a woman that he doesn't feel the chemistry, and he moves on.
The first red flag for me was how he mirrored her when they talked on the phone, making it appear as if he was "perfect" for her. Players are ultra charming and seductive. Regular/real guys... not so much. Take off the rose-colored glasses. It's okay to have differences in likes and dislikes.
A player is a gonna be a player no matter how many dates it takes to sleep with you. If they're having fun with you, they are willing to wait while they play their cat-and-mouse game. They do love a challenge - it stimulates their ego. In the meantime, they're getting sex from other women.
All the more reason to keep your legs crossed, and listen closely to everything they say. Google them to see if they are who they say they are. Meet their friends. If you never do, if they hide you and don't tell anyone about you, watch out.
Tell them you don't sleep with a man until the two of you agree to be monogamous. That'll make a player run... unless he's a sociopath. They especially love a challenge.
"Silence isn't golden... it's the coward's way out." ~Ravenna3
I wrote that one for the last player who suckered me.
He was not a computer-user, and did no internet dating, but I was still wary. And no, I didn't sleep with him right away. I waited over a month, watched him closely and listened carefully, heard his whole life story, googled him to verify it, knew where he worked, who his parents were and where they worked, met one of his friends...
And I played it cool - no clinging, called him only sparingly, let him chase me, but was gentle, open and sweet to him.
I was on my guard as early as the second date, when his friend said to me in a drunken stupor, " I hope he doesn't hurt you, because you are an angel." But I saw no red flags to back it up.
We dated and slept together for the whole second month.
When he disappeared on me, after a wonderful date and spending the night together, he left clothing at my house! WTF?! He did try to call me twice after I had quoted my "silence isn't golden line" and he had received his clothing in the mail, but he left no message.
Aahh well, another lesson learned. Next time I will try the "I don't sleep with a man unless we agree to be monogamous" rule.
Ravenna3 at April 14, 2010 7:07 AM
I've never had a relationship work out that started with fast sex. Of course, that might be the odds, as I've rarely done that, but I think there's something to waiting. As Amy says, it triggers more desire in the man if he has to work harder for it.
Also, both men and women have to realize that, in addition to the first date hurdle, sex is another hurdle to pass. Just because you have excellent personality chemistry, and you decide to take it to that next level, doesn't mean you'll have real physical chemistry.
I think this is probably more important to men than women, but I dumped my share of men after sex because I just knew we didn't click that way. The LW may be correct in her assessment of the date. She just didn't do it for him in bed.
Women, especially, don't like to believe it's that simple, and they'll look for other reasons, but it sounds to me that either her jumping into bed so quickly scared him off, or he didn't like what happened in bed or didn't find her as attractive naked. And that's his right.
lovelysoul at April 14, 2010 7:08 AM
Yep, I learned this the hard way, too, and had my share of one-nighters. Never again.
Flynne at April 14, 2010 7:17 AM
Ravenna3, you sound kind of burned out on dating, and especially cynical, given your dad's behavior.
I spent 3-4 years dating online, and what I learned is that you can't take much of it personally. Sure, you get rejected, but you also reject people. I stopped assumming every guy that rejected me was a "player" or giving him any other negative labels...because I was rejecting guys too, and sometimes, it didn't go over well, and they probably thought I was a player too, or at least a jerk.
I always tried to write a kind note of rejection, but rejection never goes down easy. And, obviously, I'm a good communicator, whereas most men aren't really good at verbal communication, so I think they honestly don't know what to say or how to say it, and they figure it's easier just to disappear.
I started looking at it that way. Everyone has the right to find their perfect partner. I did. They did. We're all on a search, and you can't take it too personally or paint the other person out as a jerk or user when you're rejected.
When I did find the right person, it felt different - more stable from the start. He stuck around and I stuck around. I didn't have to "work" to make him stay or spend time with me, or vice versa. After about a month, we had sex, and it was incredible. Two years later, we got engaged.
You'll find the right person if you just stay open and try not become bitter.
lovelysoul at April 14, 2010 7:31 AM
Men are always available for sex. If the letter writer wants to pursue a relationship, date for three months without sex.
If he is still calling and wanting to go on dates after 3 months, he is interested in you and not just sex.
David M. at April 14, 2010 7:45 AM
Here's a man you could've been with forever -- if only you'd taken the liberty of cuffing him to the chair in your front room.
That made me blow coffee Amy! LOL
Suki at April 14, 2010 8:10 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/04/moment-of-poof.html#comment-1708342">comment from SukiThanks! We aim to please!
Amy Alkon at April 14, 2010 8:16 AM
"We then had the perfect date -- talking into the wee hours and ending up in bed."
See, that wasn't the perfect date. It might have been the perfect date for him. (Some guys might say yeah, except for all the talking, but guys like to run off at the mouth as much as girls do.)
Just learn from the responses here, chalk it up to experience, get checked for disease, and move on.
Pricklypear at April 14, 2010 8:51 AM
You'd think this gal never heard of a one-night stand before.
Pirate Jo at April 14, 2010 9:06 AM
Too soon too fast, too hot its not going to last. That's my little saying that every woman must know. I've seen women twice my age, divorced, cheated on dozens of times...and yet totally gullible for the next whirlwind romance. Its safer to be a little too bitter or cynical than too naive and open-minded.
LW should maybe ask someone to set her up with a stable person---and take an oath of celibacy for perhaps a month then maybe she'll find someone.
Em Laz at April 14, 2010 9:17 AM
Yes, Numbersix, yes:
> How many times have you heard a
> story from a guy about a first
> date that was mentioning that
> she'd always dreamed of
> honeymooning in Italy/settling
> down by the water/having two
> girls and two boys?
There's conservative columnist named Frum who's been making noise in recent weeks for describing HCR more as a failure of conservatism than a success of liberalism. The resulting anger from the right is getting him a lot of lefty talk show appearances and tweet traffic, etc.
But the real conservative miracle in his life is his wife, who put it like this in a book ten years ago:
> I suspect that few things are more
> off-putting to a man eating dinner
> than to notice that the woman
> across the table is looking at him
> more hungrily than at the food on
> her plate – and she is not hungry
> for his body but for his whole life.
That summed up my late-30's early-40's dating experience perfectly.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at April 14, 2010 9:56 AM
I see two options: she ran into a player as many here have mentioned, or the ego crushing, she is bad in bed/ they were not compatible in bed.
I can just picture his letter in.
Went on a horrible date last night. All she did was talk talk talk, but could tell she was horny and she wasn't bad looking, so I figured why not give her a chance. Being great in the sack can make up for a lot. Then between the sheets she was.....?
Joe at April 14, 2010 10:20 AM
If she was any good in bed he would be back for seconds. Nuff said.
donna at April 14, 2010 11:01 AM
Yes, I too have been used, and tossed out on the street. Waa-waa. I mean, he used all three holes with abandon, and then left me with nothing but a really good orgasm and a sore anus.
Well, he did pay for dinner. I guess it was a fair trade, when you add in the cash value of that.
Ms. Chastened at April 14, 2010 11:18 AM
If you want to 'play' 'the player', set up a fictitious profile with a gorgeous photo of another woman, and see how fast he sends you an invitation. Lure him in, get him all excited about meeting you, set up a hot date, stand him up, then never reply to any of his messages.
My reaction to this was so strong, I can't read past without commenting first. She made a bad decision, so HE should pay? Where exactly is her responsibility in allowing herself to get so attached to this guy on their first date? Is she entitled to a LT relationship just because she put out? And are women so delicate they need to be protected by players (if that's what he is) or are they grown adults responsible for their own decisions and consequences? Making a suggestion like this as if it were a healthy idea is the kind of thing that makes men think women are batshit crazy!
moreta at April 14, 2010 12:05 PM
That is pretty mean. Besides, you know the moment you do, he'll call and say he was treating orphans in Haiti and wants to see you again.
But, guys, it's really bad form to sleep with a woman and not call...or at least write or text...the next day. "Thanks for a wonderful date. You're really a nice person, but I don't think we're a match". That's all you need to say, and then, you go from looking like a total heartless user to something of a gentleman.
If you won't do it purely for ethics, at least do it avoid recriminations like the one above.
lovelysoul at April 14, 2010 12:24 PM
If you want to 'play' 'the player', set up a fictitious profile with a gorgeous photo of another woman, and see how fast he sends you an invitation. Lure him in, get him all excited about meeting you, set up a hot date, stand him up, then never reply to any of his messages.
This seems more like a revenge fantasy than a legitimate course of action.
MonicaP at April 14, 2010 1:12 PM
"If she was any good in bed he would be back for seconds. Nuff said."
Eh, I doubt this. I think that for men, there is a scale. The 5% at the bottom who just lay there like a sack of potatoes and don't participate, the 5% at the top who ride it like a Harley on a bad stretch of road, and the 90% in the middle that is everyone else.
I think this gal just made it too easy for him.
A male friend of mine back in college was telling me about some girl he had slept with the night before. According to him, she was very pretty and quite enjoyable in the sack. He clearly viewed the experience in a positive light, but said he wouldn't call her again. Why? Because she put out on the first date. I was like, 'But maybe she will want to put out again. You liked it the first time, right?' He said that thought hadn't even occurred to him, and he still had no intention of calling her.
I was surprised by this, at the time. If I go to a restaurant and have a good meal, I'll probably go there again. I sort of thought he would view the situation the same way. And it did seem unfair. He's judging her harshly for doing something that - hello - he WANTED her to do. Why would you think less of someone who made you feel good? I can see dissing on them a little if they threw up all over your car, but good sex?
I still don't really understand it, but have learned that it is nevertheless the way men think, so I accept it. Truth doesn't care how you respond to it.
Pirate Jo at April 14, 2010 1:20 PM
"He's judging her harshly for doing something that - hello - he WANTED her to do. Why would you think less of someone who made you feel good?"
My guess it that the reason many guys think this way arises from the question: "If she's making it that easy for me, how many other guys has she done this with?" This is especially true when it's someone you met through online dating-he knows that you're going on a ton of first dates, and immediately going to wonder if every other first date ended the same way. Ironically, I'm sure that LW's intentions were completely opposite-she was using sex to show her date that he was special and different from every other guy, but that's not the way a guy is going to interpret it.
Shannon at April 14, 2010 2:24 PM
No matter how good the woman is in bed, if a guy goes back for seconds, he's sending the message that's he's interested in a relationship with her, and if she put out that fast, most guys don't consider her relationship material.
LW, learn from this and never go to bed with someone on the first date, even if you're getting along amazingly.
lovelysoul at April 14, 2010 2:37 PM
> I think this gal just made it too easy for him.
Why do women do this? Sitcom and rom-com plots bubble and froth around themes of meet-cute and meet-ugly, as if it mattered. Amy's like this with alcohol for teenagers, too: If only the introduction had been handled correctly, with a gentle ramp-up to the climax –fucking, or inebriation– then maybe everything afterwards would have gone better....
No.
As regards dating, this woman would have been disappointed later instead of being disappointed now. That's not to argue that every woman should sleep with every man she meets ASAP, only that she should think clearly about the kind of romance she's looking for as she socializes.
It's possible that he just didn't like her that much, but wasn't in the mood to break a stranger's heart that day... to her face.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at April 14, 2010 2:40 PM
" ... she was using sex to show her date that he was special and different from every other guy"
This is why, Crid.
" ... but that's not the way a guy is going to interpret it."
And this is why it never works. Well, too bad, but so be it. Of course, once you get IN the relationship, they want you to be a sex kitten. Apparently, you're supposed to be a sex kitten *with a lot of self-discipline* during the dating stage.
Heh! I guess I must have got lucky! Now that I think about it, my sweety and I went on a few bike rides (as part of a bigger group) together, really really liked each other a lot, then went out as a couple alone, but didn't have sex, and then came Ragbrai. 75 miles a day riding a bike for a week? No one expects you to have sex, no one even wants to. But fell in love we did, and finally had sex a week later, after all the parts had healed. That brought things right about to the two-month mark. Hee hee hee ... as much as the chemistry was charging, he must have thought I was very self-disciplined, but it was just that my bike seat had killed me.
Pirate Jo at April 14, 2010 4:43 PM
I think guys are just deathly afraid of being in a relationship. When I was dating off the internet, I was very selective, but still would have sex with a guy that I met that I thought was hot, and where we had awesome chemistry. What women have to remember is, that it is usually a one-off experience, so enjoy it for what it is. There are plenty of men out there, so what's with the desperation if he doesn't call you again? It's going to be him sitting by himself on a bar stool when he's 50, not you, so who cares?
My sweetie and I met off an internet dating site, and the chemistry was hot from the beginning. We were just FBs for years, but since the sex was so great, we just kept hooking up. I think women have to make sure that they keep their distance and let the guy chase them, and the best way to do that is keep a lot of guys in play, until you've made an agreement of monogamy with one.
It's been 5 years and we're still hot for each other. He wanted to move in together about a year ago, but I nixed that idea because I didn't want us to get sick of each other.
Chrissy at April 14, 2010 5:23 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/04/moment-of-poof.html#comment-1708437">comment from Pirate Johe must have thought I was very self-disciplined, but it was just that my bike seat had killed me.
Hah - love that.
If you're going to have sex on the first date, fine -- you'd just better know the likely consequences and accept them.
Amy Alkon at April 14, 2010 5:31 PM
> This is why
Well, golly, I'm sure he was flattered, but it turns out the flattery was not the kind he felt he needed to collect again. What else to say about this? I mean, like, not trying to give anyone a hard time, but do you see how the desperation for a particular kind of connection seems to be warped on both sides?
> I think guys are just deathly afraid of
> being in a relationship.
Why call it fear? Why not just say they don't want one?
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at April 14, 2010 7:59 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/04/moment-of-poof.html#comment-1708460">comment from Crid [CridComment at gmail]I think guys are just deathly afraid of > being in a relationship. Why call it fear? Why not just say they don't want one?
Exactly, and exactly how I'm answering a question I got recently, from a woman who said she wanted to scream at a guy for being afraid. And all that ultimately matters is that he doesn't want you. Endlessly parsing the why perhaps helps women avoid the essential bit.
Amy Alkon at April 14, 2010 10:21 PM
Ravenna,
I am seriously concerned for you. You have been molded to be such a victim that you can't fathom sexual liberation. Have you ever wanted to fuck so bad your body ached? When that happened, what you should have done was find someone to fuck the hell out of. Instead you choose to put victim badges on sexual desire.
If someone is over 30 and still believes in chick flick relationships, she deserves for this shit to happen.
Ravenna, I recommend fucking the shit out of the next person you see. Before you do that grind his head into your cunt. It might make you feel beter. Next, recognize your unhealthy limitations on sexual desire have produced generations of pedophiles.
Coincidentally, I fucked the Jesus out of my boyfriend on the first date. We have been together ten months, which is really saying something for me. I wasn't trying for something permanent. I like him, though. He's got brains to match his balls and a damn good sense of humor.
Jesus! To quote a great movie: "Why So Serious?"
My solution: Fuck more joyfully. You can't do it in the after life, if that's what you believe in; and, I don't believe in ghosts getting it on.
Cumming is good. Quote me on facebook.
kg at April 14, 2010 11:00 PM
@ kg april 14 11:00 p.m.
"Coincidentally, I fucked the Jesus out of my boyfriend on the first date. We have been together ten months, which is really saying something for me. I wasn't trying for something permanent. I like him, though. He's got brains to match his balls and a damn good sense of humor."
I enjoyed reading your post. You are such a lucky gal :) :) :)
Bluejean Baby at April 15, 2010 5:44 AM
"I think guys are just deathly afraid of > being in a relationship. Why call it fear?"
Basic shaming technique to try and control someone. Men don't like it when women call them cowardly, so women call men cowardly in order to prod them toward some action the woman desires.
Pretty sick stuff, really. It is akin to when guys try and guilt women into sex by calling them teases or such.
Spartee at April 15, 2010 7:24 AM
I revise my post. "Guys don't perceive an upside to being in a relationship, so they wisely avoid them." No fear baby, no fear.
Chrissy at April 15, 2010 9:39 AM
LovelySoul said: "No matter how good the woman is in bed, if a guy goes back for seconds, he's sending the message that's he's interested in a relationship with her, and if she put out that fast, most guys don't consider her relationship material."
LS, for once i totally agree with you. Men have not changed much over hundereds of years, and have adapted nicely to the new rules brought to us by feminism. In the past there were women you wanted to have sex with, and there were women you wanted to have relationships with...and the two rarely met. If your girlfrind was a raging psycho on the bed that was just a bonus. You were with her because she was nice and sweet and funny and cute.
During those times without said girlfrind you screwed anything that moved, not caring if you ever saw them again or not. The thinking was, any woman who slept with you on the first date was not girlfriend material. Of course there are exceptions: I married one of my one-nighters!
Now, of course, everything has changed. The sex is so easy to get now with the hookup generation of women. Feminism told them thaty could have as much sex as they wanted, and forget about relationships! The unintended result was that men do not have to work to get sex any more, and all of the sweet, nice, funny and cute girls are having sex with everyone. So there is fewer women to be girlfriends, and too many girls ready for nameless sex.
mike at April 15, 2010 11:01 AM
"My guess it that the reason many guys think this way arises from the question: "If she's making it that easy for me, how many other guys has she done this with?""
Shannon, I think you're right ... this would be my primary rational concern with someone who seemed 'too easy'.
kg: "You have been molded to be such a victim that you can't fathom sexual liberation."
I like your attitude. Ravenna seems to have the idea that sex is something only done for the man's pleasure. Seemingly 'in exchange' or as a reward only for 'wanting a serious relationship', or something. And that if the man 'gets' the sex, he has 'won' (some vaguely conceived metaphorical battle/game).
Lobster at April 17, 2010 5:58 AM
From a female perspective, I don't really see a relationship as the big reward it's cracked up to be. I'd rather have the mind blowing sex, thank you very much.
I've been the 'sweet, nice funny cute girl' that a guy wanted to be in a relationship with, but who he didn't think of in sexual terms. Then of course he fucked around with those 'easy' girls, while Miss Cutie sat at home all naive and innocent for him to come home to. (and I'm not bitter, I'm just making an observation).
The day to day tedium of domesticity is nothing that I personally strive for (grocery shopping anyone?) and sitting around watching your committed boyfriend play God of War for 6 hours straight isn't much fun for the Insignificant Other.
Chrissy at April 17, 2010 8:23 AM
He got what he wanted because you "gave it up" early on. There was nothing left for him to work towards. I have never understood girls who put out on the first date. Seriously. Do they ever stop to think how many other girls these fellows have done that with...and how they might be crawling with STD's after being with so many partners. (Some of which can either make life very unpleasant or even kill you.) Stupid girl. Seriously...just stupid. Crawling into bed with someone you don't know is NEVER a good idea, regardless of what Alkon thinks.
Matt at April 19, 2010 11:21 AM
The things that you would think make a relationship last, but don't:
(1) Sex on the first date.
(2) Having a kid.
(3) Buying a house.
(4) Huge sacrifices, including moving incredible distances and giving up your career.
Teach it in sex ed, America. Teach it NOW.
kevin_m at April 20, 2010 5:30 AM
The things that you would think make a relationship last, but don't:
(1) Sex on the first date.
(2) Having a kid.
(3) Buying a house.
(4) Huge sacrifices, including moving incredible distances and giving up your career
UHM....NOT ALWAYS,KEVIN. NOT ALWAYS.
kg at April 23, 2010 11:02 PM
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