It's A Bootyfull Day In The Neighborhood
My male neighbor came over to have dinner with me and my kids. After I put the kids to bed, we started watching a movie and ended up in the bedroom. I've taught my kids to always knock, but right in the middle of a naked foreplay session, my 10-year-old son walked in on us. I'm a divorced single mother and am entitled to a healthy sex life, but what do I say to my kid? Should I have the sex talk with him now? I don't think I should apologize. I've taught my son that you apologize when you've done something wrong, and I don't want him interpreting sex as wrong.
--Caught
According to Random House, "What Your Fifth Grader Needs to Know" is stuff like long division and where Spain is on the map, not the fact that your neighbor has a birthmark in the shape of Lebanon -- well below the equator. (That's in the as-of-yet unpublished "What Your Fifth Grader Doesn't Need to Know.")
Freudian analysts, sans evidence, predicted a laundry list of awful outcomes for children who witness their parents getting it on -- including mania, depression, character disorders, learning disturbances, delinquency, and even asthma. Dr. Paul Okami actually investigated -- following 200 kids for 18 years in a UCLA study -- and found that "no empirical evidence links such experiences with subsequent psychological harm." Unfortunately, nobody seems to have studied whether there's a difference in seeing Mommy and Daddy and seeing Mommy doing the neighbor. If the naked people are the kid's parents, they can at least launch into the old "When two people love each other very much..." That doesn't quite fly with "When there's a reasonably attractive semi-stranger next door, and Mommy hasn't gotten her rocks off in the longest time..."
Your kid's already had his stability rocked by divorce; the last thing he needs is to be wondering who this guy is to you and having any dreams of his parents getting back together crushed in such an upsetting and even threatening way. Sure, you're divorced, not dead, but first and foremost, you're somebody's mommy -- somebody who shouldn't be under the impression he'll soon be recording a new voicemail message: "Mommy can't come to the phone right now. I think she's making a sex tape with the UPS man." So, yes, an apology is in order -- not for having sex, but for turning your bedroom into a peep show for your 10-year-old. But, wait -- he should've knocked! Right. How unbelievable, a 10-year-old failing to follow directions.
Because kids mature at different rates, child-rearing experts suggest waiting for a kid to show he's ready to hear about sex, which he'll indicate by asking questions. Monitor your son for changes in mood or behavior and ask if there's anything on his mind about what he saw. If so, be truthful -- say that men and women sometimes do stuff to make each other feel good and that's what you two were doing. In the future, always use protection -- a latex condom and a day-planner (to schedule your romps when the kids have a sleepover at Granny's). You'll be doing your part to prevent both accidental pregnancies and updated song lyrics: "I saw Mommy kissing Santa Claus, but you'll never believe what I saw her doing to the Easter Bunny."
Locks for doors are very cheap.
Snoopy at November 30, 2010 5:20 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/its-a-bootyfull.html#comment-1791394">comment from SnoopyLocks are what parents use to keep the kids out. If you're somebody's divorced mom, you'd don't get to invite some guy over for a fuck. Bad enough for your kids that you're divorced.
Amy Alkon at November 30, 2010 5:25 PM
Was this letter postmarked from Central Casting. Talk about living up to negative stereotypes.
malromo at November 30, 2010 5:52 PM
Damn right, Amy. A locked door would have been better, but her kids would still have to hear her fucking this guy. I love it how it's not her boyfriend or even her date, just a dude down the block coming by for a screw. This is a "healthy sex life?"
KarenW at November 30, 2010 7:12 PM
Being a parent of a youngish kid is like being a teenager again: your sex is furtive, fast, and wedged into available times and places. And yeah, you will get busted on occasion by family members. Deal with it. Didn't you read the manual that came with the kids?
"I'm a divorced single mother and am entitled to a healthy sex life, but what do I say to my kid?"
Uh...you do understand that a healthy sex life for a divorced single mother in NO WAY will involve your kid's knowledge, awareness, etc. So leave off that "what do I say to my kids?" You don't. have. to. explain. your. sex. life. to. your. kids.
"After I put the kids to bed, we started watching a movie and ended up in the bedroom."
Gotta love that passive voice, folks. "We...ended up in the bedroom". Classic.
How does that happen, exactly? "Whoops! One minute I am watching Iron Man II, then reading to my kid, and the next thing I know, the guy down the street is naked with me and has his...well, never mind."
I mean, c'mon. Own it. You and he had sex. Kid heard you doing it and walked in. Not a big deal, actually.
Next time, hire a sitter and go to his place. Problem solved. And quit pretending that the sex part wasn't the point of the whole evening. There is nothing wrong with having sex, just be more discrete about it until the kids leave home.
Spartee at November 30, 2010 8:22 PM
Gotta love that passive voice, folks. "We...ended up in the bedroom". Classic.
Well she wouldn't want to admit that she actively sought out sex with the neighbor, but since he was there... Also, it wasn't sex, you see, it was a "naked foreplay session." I'm with you, Spartee. She needs to stop making excuses that allow her to take so little responsibility for the situation. And I agree that she's making it a bigger deal than it needs to be. It's like when your kid falls down: if you rush over and freak out, he's going to cry more than he would have if you'd waited until he'd decided how badly he was hurt. You don't need to be so proactive about the sex talk, because you'll only overwhelm him. Just answer any questions truthfully but tactfully and you (and he) will probably be fine.
It's kind of hilarious that passive sentence about magically ending up in the bedroom is in the same letter with her defensive squawking that she's entitled to a healthy sex life and she doesn't have to apologize for it because sex isn't wrong. Come on, LW, you know some part of this whole situation was wrong because you're writing in for advice while asserting that you're entitled to what you want, never mind that your kids are in the house. That's where you went wrong. Would it have been too hard to schedule a sleepover at a friend or relative's house while you had your date? Oh, wait, that would mean you were looking to have sex, which would be wrong, no, wait, sex isn't wrong, so you have nothing to apologize for, except you don't want to scar your kid, but... You see the kind of circular thinking that making excuses to yourself leads to? Also, doesn't this LW seem like a slightly earlier version of that one woman who wrote to Amy about how to explain to her son that she left his Little League game for a booty call?
A side note: are we sure that the kid didn't knock? Because it seems possible that he did, or called out, and she was too, um, engaged at the time to hear him.
NumberSix at November 30, 2010 9:25 PM
Unfortunately, nobody seems to have studied whether there's a difference in seeing Mommy and Daddy and seeing Mommy doing the neighbor.
I'll stick my hand up now for that study...
Also, it wasn't sex, you see, it was a "naked foreplay session."
Yes, that sounded a little strange. I think I read it as "it wasn't sex, I just happened to trip over and his dick fell into my mouth"
LW, if you don't make it a big deal he'll get over it. If you look stressed about it he will pick up on that and get weird on you. And next time...organise a babysitter!
On the other hand, I can hardly talk - my first gf and I used to babysit my younger siblings when my parents went out for dinner. We were 16 so you can imagine how that went - and we once got walked in on by my youngest brother, 4 years old at the time, because he had had a nightmare. Thank god we were both a bit hung up at that age and had the lights off...
Ltw at December 1, 2010 2:12 AM
I just happened to trip over and his dick fell into my mouth.
Don't make fun, Ltw. It happens.
NumberSix at December 1, 2010 2:15 AM
Wish it would happen to me NumberSix - I've been single too long :)
Ltw at December 1, 2010 4:27 AM
1) WHy HASN"T she had the sex talk with him yet? He's 10 for christ sake.
2) ALWAYS LOCK THE DAMN DOOR!
3) Once you've had a kid, you DON"T have a right to a healthy sex life. Your kid has a right to a mom that puts his needs (needs, not wants) first. STrange men screwing mommy down the hall is not what's best.
momof4 at December 1, 2010 5:31 AM
You left "lock for the bedroom door" under protection.
And no, Amy, he's not entitled to an apology. He's ten, therefore old enough to know that you knock before entering. She didn't turn her bedroom into a peepshow. She has a reasonable expectation of privacy in her own bedroom, and that includes from a child that's old enough to know that you knock before you enter someone's room.
Patrick at December 1, 2010 5:43 AM
I'm a divorced single mother and am entitled to a healthy sex life
You're not entitled to anything. Your son is entitled to not be raised by a slut who "ended up in the bedroom" with her neighbour. How do you suppose he will view women if this is how his mother behaves? Is banging your neighbour because of convenient proximity really a healthy sex life? Sounds more like "you'll do" and mutual masturbation. Of course, if you consider the gratification of your flesh more important than the emotional well being of your children....
Thag Jones at December 1, 2010 5:57 AM
You gave up being "entitled" to a sex life when you divorced. Sorry, them's the breaks. You won't die without it, really. Find something else to do with your time or start saving for the psychiatrist's bills.
Thag Jones at December 1, 2010 5:59 AM
Having kids means you lose some of the privileges you had when you were single. Some things are just mutually exclusive that way.
I have dogs, not kids, and even I would have locked the bedroom door.
But then again, I wouldn't have had casual sex with a neighbour I barely know.
I let my dogs have that kind of fun.
ie at December 1, 2010 6:00 AM
Once you've had a kid, you DON"T have a right to a healthy sex life.
Ah, yes I DO. I don't have a right to shove my kid's face in it, but I DO have a right to a healthy sex life.
Your kid has a right to a mom that puts his needs (needs, not wants) first.
Right, but my kid does NOT NEED to be barging into my bedroom without knocking.
STrange men screwing mommy down the hall is not what's best.
Agreed. She should have made other arrangements before tripping and ending up with his dick in her mouth. That's what babysitters are for. And for the record, the neighbor is not totally blameless here. He knows she has kids, and he still couldn't keep it in his pants until they could arrange a more appropriate time?
Flynne at December 1, 2010 6:02 AM
Flynne, be careful not to confuse rights with privileges.
Oh, and yes, get a bloody lock for the door!
Thag Jones at December 1, 2010 6:09 AM
Your kid's already had his stability rocked by divorce; the last thing he needs is to be wondering who this guy is to you and having any dreams of his parents getting back together crushed in such an upsetting and even threatening way. Sure, you're divorced, not dead, but first and foremost, you're somebody's mommy
Yes, this. I feel sorry for this kid, honestly. I hope she apologizes and gets her act together. If this is normal behaviour for her, the kid is in for a world of hurt.
Thag Jones at December 1, 2010 6:24 AM
I agree with momof4 - you should have had the 'sex talk' with your son a LONG time ago. If his only knowledge of sex is what he hears at school coupled with what he saw at home, he very well may come out of this experience with some skewed ideas about sex and love. I am of the mind that the sex talk should be had early on, to normalize the idea of sex and also to give a child confidence and the knowledge about being safe and responsible.
I don't agree with the idea that mom loses her rights to have sex because she has kids...but she does have the responsibility to speak with her kids openly and frankly about what sex means and the importance of safety, etc.
The kid is 10. In a year or two he'll be beginning his own experiments on himself. It's already late, but this experience can possibly be used as a segue for 'the talk.'
lori m at December 1, 2010 7:02 AM
Whoa, guys, ease up. The woman can have a romantic and sexual life, and her kids won't be harmed by that. IMHO, she just needs to keep her adult romantic relationships very separate from the kids (and I mean *separate*--as in, the guys don't meet the kids until things are at least 1 year into a serious relationship).
The biggest mistake I saw in divorced parents was introducing every guy or gal they (ahem) "dated" for more than 4 weeks to their kids.
Trust me, your kids do not want that experience any more than your parents do. Wait until the person is clearly (1) sticking around for years to come and (2) worthy of being introduced to the most important people in your life.
Spartee at December 1, 2010 7:28 AM
She does have the right to sex, but with that comes the responsibility to have a little fucking discretion. They don't have babysitters and motels where you come from?
These divorced parents that are parading lovers through the house absolutely make me sick. They're selfish, stupid, and irresponsible.
This letter writer doesn't give a shit about her child.
And now she wants to impart her wisdom on the boy with a sex talk?
Do the boy a huge favor and let his father handle that. While you're at it, send him to live with his father. He may just love his son more than he loves his fleeting sexual desires and might just keep his son's welfare in mind.
Oh yeah, keeping the boy's welfare in mind? You have to do that 100% of the time. No exceptions. Even if your panties are damp.
jonQpublic at December 1, 2010 7:44 AM
Could someone please tell me where this idea that people have a right to sexual intercourse comes from? Isn't this attitude of entitlement at the root of the problem here? If I felt I was entitled to a sex life, I'd be doing the same thing as this woman, but like every mother I have obligations to my children, not my tingling vagina that no longer has a husband to fulfil that particular want.
Thag Jones at December 1, 2010 7:50 AM
"Freudian analysts, sans evidence, predicted a laundry list of awful outcomes for children who witness their parents getting it on" Those occur but other factors have to be involved. When sex is painted as a hell worth trespass (as it was in Freud's time)then you catch mom getting her nasty on. The brain will try to process this information and in fragile people can cause lasting mental damage.
There isn't much she need to apologize for. So mom was getting her needs met and this makes her a slut? Well that's just plain fucking stupid. If she had a parade of random men walking through yeah that might be bad for the kid. However she ain't gone find him a new daddy without a few false starts. First she's a bitch for being a single mom through divorce then she's a slut for try to remedy the situation, WTF?
The idea that mom doesn't want/like sex leads to the madonna/whore complex. Now that will fuck the kid up.
As far as crushing the kids dream of mom and dad getting back together. Good nothing positive comes from hoping for shit that will never happen. That shit need to be resolved early in the divorce.
vlad at December 1, 2010 7:51 AM
FWIW...
Husband's parents divorced when he was around 10, and he described his mother once as being "very promiscuous." (I think she dated a lot, that he knew of.) I don't think that he ever walked in on her or anything, and I don't even think she brought men home unless they were official boyfriends, but for whatever reason he decided that she was loose, and still thinks so almost 30 years later... So explain or don't, but keep in mind that knowing Mommy is out there getting laid can very much change the way your child views you.
ahw at December 1, 2010 7:53 AM
she's a slut for try to remedy the situation, WTF?
She's not trying to remedy the situation, she's following the tingle. Fucking the neighbour is not a remedy for divorce, certainly not one that will do the kid much good.
Thag Jones at December 1, 2010 7:59 AM
"Could someone please tell me where this idea that people have a right to sexual intercourse comes from?" You don't have a right to anything other than life, liberty and property unless due process is followed. You have a responsibility to maintain a stable home for your children. Being an over stressed snapping bitch does not make for a stable home. Maintaining it as a one parent home, according to most here is also detrimental. So should we come down on her for having sex with her kids in the house or do we flame those single mothers who eschew all male company while raising kids alone?
vlad at December 1, 2010 7:59 AM
"So explain or don't, but keep in mind that knowing Mommy is out there getting laid can very much change the way your child views you." Same goes for forsaking men's company all together after the divorce. If what she's doing goes counter to what she herself has spewed as correct behavior then yeah the effect is generally negative.
"She's not trying to remedy the situation, she's following the tingle." As opposed to what single parent date night, Match.com? How is this supposed to happen to not offend your sensibilities.
vlad at December 1, 2010 8:06 AM
Hey letter writer, so after you kicked your son out of the room, did you go ahead and finish the guy off?
I'm betting yes. After all, you're entitled.
jonQpublic at December 1, 2010 8:12 AM
To me the problem with saying "I have a right to xxx" means the person is trying to justify going about xxx in a way that hurts others.
There's nothing wrong with her having a sex life, it's the way she's going about it that's thoughtless an selfish.
I personally like to avoid saying 'I have a right to'. It seems so 'I'm going to put myself before others'. To me, it's the phrasing that's telling.
AntoniaB at December 1, 2010 8:25 AM
Being an over stressed snapping bitch does not make for a stable home.
And the only remedy for that is.... you guessed it, fucking the neighbour!
Thag Jones at December 1, 2010 8:25 AM
There is no right to sex folks. We don't need that right, just like we don't need the right to do push-ups in the morning, or to drive the long way to work. You don't even want there to be a right, or entitlement, to sex, because then it can be legally constrained and even revoked.
I don't think that it's fair to label the LW a slut. What does throw a red flag is her passive aggressive entitlement talk. The relevant question here is 'should I', not 'can I'.
It always worries me when parents start to refer to their kids as though they are some foreign entity that's trying to exert authority over them.
At least she doesn't have a girl. I don't know how many young women I've met who are screwed up because their mother behaved this way.
milo at December 1, 2010 9:39 AM
One fun thing about coming in late is reading everybody's take on the situation.
And it's all shoulda, woulda, coulda, anyway.
She mentioned kids, plural. I'm curious about how old the other ones are, and what her son has told them. Cuz I'm pretty damned sure this was discussed, if the siblings are old enough to talk about it.
Frankly I have no idea what Mom should do now. Maybe just wait til someone asks her a question, and learn from her mistakes in the meantime.
Pricklypear at December 1, 2010 10:14 AM
why do we keep treating sex as somehow something inherently damaging & psyche-scarring?
THAT is the fuel the rabid anti-man (and deep-down anti-woman) factions of feminism use to fuel the the argument that all men are rapists-in-waiting & all women are victims or whores.
that thought aside, i was raised by a single father who did not stop living his life when my mother abandoned the family & i am profoundly grateful for that. he had casual "friends", he had capital-R relationship & everything in between.
what we learned was that there are all sorts of relationships that all have their own merits & pitfalls and that it is not evil to live in the moment.
i never thought less of him for & i sure as hell NEVER thought less of the women in his life because that is not how we were raised. and these women were not part of my life, they were part of his life.
if LW's kid starts thinking she's a slut because she's having a casual fling with some guy, it's because that is how SHE feels & how she has taught him to feel. kids don't make this stuff up out of whole cloth. seeing sex for the first time is traumatic but it's because you don't know what the hell is going on. for that matter so is acupuncture. what you have when your kid walks in on you is a teachable moment, kind of like when they ask why the pregnant lady is so fat.
if she has anything to apologize for, it's for imposing one set of values on her son & blatantly refusing to live by them herself.
hahahathud at December 1, 2010 10:28 AM
I’ve always heard that life will be more interesting if you don’t knock, but not sure that applies in this instance. Kids are smart. If you’re doin’ the neighbor they’re going to know with or without visual conformation. This lady needs to find some class, buy some locks, and stop doin’ the neighbor when the kids are in the house.
Roger at December 1, 2010 10:30 AM
She should probably avoid doing the neighbor, period, unless she's confident that it's going to lead to something. Because now she's got a dude next store, who the kids going to see all the time, who any men she's seeing are likely to encounter. It's just sloppy and ripe for trouble.
Jake at December 1, 2010 10:57 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/its-a-bootyfull.html#comment-1791874">comment from hahahathudif LW's kid starts thinking she's a slut because she's having a casual fling with some guy, it's because that is how SHE feels & how she has taught him to feel.
Sorry, but there's a bit of difference between Daddy getting it on and Mommy, whether or not all the feminists and anybody else want to admit it. That's first of all. Second, divorce rocks a kid's stability, and many children of divorce want their parents to get back together. You just don't throw the neighbor a fuck in your bed.
Oh, and via epidemiology, the plural of anecdote is not data. I've read the data, and people who get divorced (unless somebody is chasing somebody else around the house with an ax) are selfish assholes. I am also a selfish asshole, and that's why I don't have children, just a very cute three-pound dog who is at Camp Debbie and Glenn this week while I'm in Paris, sleeping between them on a tiny pillow.
Amy Alkon at December 1, 2010 11:38 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/its-a-bootyfull.html#comment-1791884">comment from RogerI’ve always heard that life will be more interesting if you don’t knock
Your kid doesn't need an interesting life, just a stable, happy one. Any of you talked to those people who had slutty moms? In adulthood, they don't look back fondly on mom and her tricks. You really do not care whether Mommy's getting her rocks off -- nor should you have to.
Amy Alkon at December 1, 2010 11:53 AM
Agree with Amy above. It's not social conditioning or whatever that would cause a kid to view his mom in a particular way after seeing her fucking the neighbour. Sorry; there's just no excuse for this. Divorce is bad enough, no need to make it worse. Having casual sex in the house where your kids are makes you a slut. If you don't like it, do be it.
what you have when your kid walks in on you is a teachable moment
Right. So you're going to stop and teach the kid about the birds and the bees while you and the neighbour guy are stark naked in the middle of a "foreplay session."
Like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDoQFcQEpOQ
Thag Jones at December 1, 2010 11:58 AM
At least she doesn't have a girl.
So you really think this is somehow not as bad for a boy? What a stupid thing to say.
Thag Jones at December 1, 2010 12:02 PM
"Having casual sex in the house where your kids are makes you a slut." So by your brilliant fucking definition some can only be a slut if she (apperntly only she) has kids. Fucking really?
As long as the kid was not brought up in a sex negative environment there is really no harm in watching either parent get busy. Read "Sex at Dawn" they have data not anecdotes. We in the US are a forced monogamy there are plenty of thriving cultures that raise functional children who are not.
vlad at December 1, 2010 12:30 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/its-a-bootyfull.html#comment-1791913">comment from vladAs long as the kid was not brought up in a sex negative environment there is really no harm in watching either parent get busy.
Wrong.
And furthermore, the statement below -- "We in the US are a forced monogamy there are plenty of thriving cultures that raise functional children who are not" -- conflicts directly with that above.
Furthermore, I skimmed that book and found flaws. The guy seems pissed off to me that he's not part of respect ev psych academia, and that's where the book seems to be coming from. No, I haven't read it in full -- I'm waiting for somebody I respect to review it. I have work to do.
Amy Alkon at December 1, 2010 12:43 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/its-a-bootyfull.html#comment-1791916">comment from Amy AlkonOh, and of course people are not naturally monogamous. Evolutionary psychologists from David Buss to David Barash and beyond have said so for years. It's also not "natural" to poop into a porcelain, water-filled device in a little room. Is your neighbor just not poop-negative if he squats and shits on your lawn?
PS The S-A-D guy seems to largely appeal to people who are looking to disparage all of ev. psych. I like to disparage just the parts that seem to deserve disparaging, like the flaw in Hatfield and Clark's famous college campus/will you have sex with me? study. You don't walk up to a strange woman and say that because she's going to have concerns for her safety that a man wouldn't. Amazingly, some nitwits just repeated that flaw in an update on the study published in EHB (Evolution & Human Behavior).
Amy Alkon at December 1, 2010 12:48 PM
"Having casual sex in the house where your kids are makes you a slut." So by your brilliant fucking definition some can only be a slut if she (apperntly only she) has kids. Fucking really?
How feeble. Pretty lousy effort at deductive reasoning there, chump. There's obviously more than one way to be a slut, and this is one of them. And yes, the word slut really only applies to females. That should get your blood boiling.
Sorry, I have enough reading to do without adding idiotic nonsense to the list. There is no need for kids to watch adults going at it; that's just sick. As for the tired assertion that humans are not monogamous, there is plenty of evidence that says we are a pair bonding species, and it makes sense from a child rearing perspective to at least be serially monogamous. Just because we would act like apes (and do) if left to our own devices doesn't make that a superior way to live.
Thag Jones at December 1, 2010 1:04 PM
"Is your neighbor just not poop-negative if he squats and shits on your lawn?" Actually if he shits in HIS yard then have at it. Actually Rome used communal toilets for socializing. Nasty by current standards as it maybe. So shitting behind closed doors is a fairly modern concept. They also used a communal ass brush which has many public health ramifications.
"We in the US are a forced monogamy" Bad turn of phrase on my part. Meant monogamy is expected and those who do not conform are judged as horrid people. As you have been by posters on more than one occasion here, IE: you pissing fire over the C word. No, not the first one that springs to mind.
"Wrong." Your evidence being?
"The S-A-D guy seems to largely appeal to people who are looking to disparage all of ev. psych." A conclusion you have reached without having read it.
vlad at December 1, 2010 1:11 PM
You don't have to read everything to get the jist of it; I haven't read The Satanic Bible but I know it's a load of horse shit.
Thag Jones at December 1, 2010 1:18 PM
"That should get your blood boiling." Really? You have an over inflated sense of self then. Crid can effectively piss me off, Jeff was really good at it. In that realm you my dear are a rank amateur.
"there is plenty of evidence that says we are a pair bonding species" Not on the biological level.
"and it makes sense from a child rearing perspective" No it does not. It makes sense to you but not in the grand scheme of things. Multiple fathers in a hunter gatherer society has a higher survival rate.
vlad at December 1, 2010 1:21 PM
"I haven't read The Satanic Bible but I know it's a load of horse shit." No you were told that it was a load of shit and you took it on faith to be true. BTW are you admitting to skimming the Satanic Bible? Pretty sure that a no no for you.
vlad at December 1, 2010 1:24 PM
You sure did get your back up over my previous comment, so it's too late to pretend you're unaffected now. Your attempts at belittlement are a pretty thin screen as well.
lol @ "You have an over inflated sense of self."
Thag Jones at December 1, 2010 1:29 PM
I just quickly reviewed a couple of studies on the effects of divorce on children and discovered that the difference between a family that stays together and a family that separates is really not a heck of a lot. So we have 10% of children of parents that did not divorce are messed up and 25% of children of divorce are messed up. But of the messed up kids who's parents did not divorce, the home life was such that the parents should have divorced. So it seems that the messed up kids of divorce are messed up because their home life was shitty when the parents were together. It was also found that the home life of children greatly improved once the parents had separated. Of the children of divorce who are messed up it has been found that those are the families where the parents remained bitter and angry. So basically, if the parents are happy the kids are happy and if the parents are miserable the kids are messed up.
All in all, it looks like it is actually better for the children if the parents divorce than stay together, if the parents relationship is acrimonious.
Sources: Dr. Robert Hughes and Dr. Heller.
Ingrid at December 1, 2010 1:30 PM
>> So you really think this is somehow not as bad for a boy? What a stupid thing to say.
I don't know. The reason that I know it has an effect on girls is that I've known them intimately enough that I can tell. Being that I'm not gay, I don't get that perspective on men.
Jake at December 1, 2010 1:32 PM
I wasn't told, I deduced - I was told the opposite, in fact, so I gave it a fair shot. It makes some points about the natural selfishness of humans, but anything else in there is pretty much rubbish and cribbed from objectivism anyway, with a few silly rituals for spice.
How is having skimmed it when I was 17 a no-no for me? How is looking at it at all a no-no for me? Is there some law that says I can't read things with the word "Satan" in it? Satan is real, don'tcha know, and I have this thing known as free will.
OK, vlad, this is just too silly for words. Your lack of ability to form a real argument is boring me and my over-inflated sense of self. You are not worthy to continue conversing with me.
Thag Jones at December 1, 2010 1:38 PM
BTW, the old "you call yourself a Christian so that means you have to be completely sinless (lol) in order to be able to say anything or else you're a hypocrite" accusation is the dumbest load of crap ever, so spare me your judgement and stick to the topic. I'm not going to fall for ad hominem attacks and the like. Having read some of the Satanic Bible when I was an atheist and simply just to see what it said, not because I was a practising Satanist, is irrelevant. I used it as an example of not needing to read a whole book to get the jist of it, that's all. You argue like a woman, sheesh.
Beer me!
Thag Jones at December 1, 2010 1:44 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/its-a-bootyfull.html#comment-1791958">comment from IngridI just quickly reviewed a couple of studies on the effects of divorce on children and discovered that the difference between a family that stays together and a family that separates is really not a heck of a lot.
I've read buttloads of studies and found that not to be true -- in terms of the difference on children (not families themselves). Children of divorce have THE worst outcomes across the board (from their emotional well-being to school performance to their later relating in their own relationships).
Amy Alkon at December 1, 2010 1:45 PM
@Ingrid a 150% relative increase is quite significant. Also it's very difficult to determine the influence, and outcomes, of those other factors with any reliability.
e.g. "But of the messed up kids who's parents did not divorce, the home life was such that the parents should have divorced. "
How could a scientific study ever establish this?
Studies that purport to tell such a convenient story, that provide such a comforting narrative, tend to be contrived.
Many sociologists want divorce to be a wonderful therapeutic process for all involved, and have resisted all evidence to the contrary. It's only recently that they've been willing to admit that there are any lasting consequences to children.
milo at December 1, 2010 1:48 PM
"Children of divorce have THE worst outcomes across the board" That's what Heller pointed out. 25% vs 10%. Divorce is horrible on everyone involved. Partly because the parents use the kids as pawns in an "I Hate you" chess match. One common tactic is making sure that junior sees mom or dads new fuck buddy. Seen it happen more than once. Still does not imply that mom having a healthy sex life after adds to the damage. That's the crux of the argument. I still see no evidence back that up.
vlad at December 1, 2010 2:07 PM
"you call yourself a Christian so that means you have to be completely sinless (lol) in order to be able to say anything or else you're a hypocrite" I'm pretty sure that "He who is without sin cast the first stone" means exactly that. Though 7 years of catholic school may result in my misinterpretation.
vlad at December 1, 2010 2:19 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/its-a-bootyfull.html#comment-1792025">comment from vladMeant monogamy is expected and those who do not conform are judged as horrid people. As you have been by posters on more than one occasion here, IE: you pissing fire over the C word. No, not the first one that springs to mind. "Wrong." Your evidence being? "The S-A-D guy seems to largely appeal to people who are looking to disparage all of ev. psych." A conclusion you have reached without having read it.
I've read enough, and know enough of the numerous people who right about man's non-monogamous urges including myself.
Don't get what "you pissing fire over the C word" means. "Cunt"? It's just a word, not really a big deal, though it about makes the head fall off of any woman over a certain age in the USA, while in Britain they seem to let fly, "Oh, you old cunt" with abandon.
Amy Alkon at December 1, 2010 5:21 PM
"He who is without sin cast the first stone"
Meaning what, we can't judge murderers?
momof4 at December 1, 2010 5:27 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/its-a-bootyfull.html#comment-1792032">comment from momof4I judge everybody -- as does anybody who doesn't have the brain and ethics of a potato. As my late friend Cathy Seipp wrote, when accused, "Why, that's a value judgment!": "I have values, therefore I make judgments."
If you have kids, you owe them an idyllic childhood. Example: My friend who is a police officer does not allow discussions of how dangerous a police officer's job is around her young children. And as a mother, you're always Mommy first to your kids, and the fact that you have sexual needs is and should be of no interest to them, especially when you're dragging up "some guy" to fuck. Parents who are divorced who live responsibly only introduce their sex partners to their children when they feel sure those people will be life partners from then on. No kid needs to see a revolving door of occasional "uncles" doing Mommy. A course for stability (already rocked by divorce) it is not.
Amy Alkon at December 1, 2010 5:36 PM
Well, the dude did limit his indignation to stones. He did not say "let he who is without sin cast the first judgment".
There is a difference between braining someone with a rock until they die versus clucking your tongue in reproach for bad choices. Jesus did lots of tongue-clucking, FWIR.
Spartee at December 1, 2010 8:08 PM
Not commenting on what mom should be doing, but that last time one of my kids came through my closed bedroom door was when my eldest was 6-7 and was sick to her stomach (I woke up when she climbed on my back and started throwing up). It never occurred to my from my earliest memories to open my parents bedroom door. A 10 year old kid IS old enough to know better, unless they are mentally impaired.
William (wbhicks@hotmail.com) at December 1, 2010 9:07 PM
I think our ideas regarding sex and violence in this country are sort of off in the first place
ex. given:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPlS3q-yFfM&feature=related
and you know, mothers are just people. I think it's really sad when people blame their parents for everything and refuse to grow up and say "oh yeah my mom is just a person like me with faults, prone to human error, etc." I mean it's not like this chick went all Mommy Dearest on her kid. If people waited until they were perfect to have kiddos, they never would.
Gspotted at December 1, 2010 10:18 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/its-a-bootyfull.html#comment-1792127">comment from William (wbhicks@hotmail.com)A 10 year old kid IS old enough to know better, unless they are mentally impaired.
That notion worked really well here, huh?
Amy Alkon at December 1, 2010 10:39 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/its-a-bootyfull.html#comment-1792131">comment from GspottedI think our ideas regarding sex and violence in this country are sort of off in the first place
Look, personally, my ideas about sex are not exactly Puritannical. I'll emphasize it again: this is NOT about sex. It's about exposing your kid -- the kid you've surely fucked up and destabilized plenty already with your divorce -- to some trick you're fucking for the evening. No.
Amy Alkon at December 1, 2010 10:45 PM
@Gspotted: There is nothing puritanical or "sort of off", at any age -- child or grown, about being disturbed by seeing your own mother getting some cock.
Is that so difficult to understand?
Also, it would be disturbing enough, though probably not scarring, to witness Mom with Dad. A perfect stranger? Really?
"If people waited until they were perfect ... " That's completely true. However, having such total disregard for your child's feelings of security within his own family is so far away from perfect that, in my mind, it nearly warrants a negligence charge.
jonQpublic at December 1, 2010 11:38 PM
By the way, I saw a comedian on T.V. once (I forget who) that had a routine about how he loved to date single mothers. They always packed him off in the morning with Fruit Rollups and a juice box. It was hysterical.
jonQpublic at December 1, 2010 11:41 PM
There is nothing puritanical or "sort of off", at any age -- child or grown, about being disturbed by seeing your own mother getting some cock.
Well, jonQpublic, I don't want to watch, but I'd like to see (in the figurative sense) my divorced mother get some. I never thought I'd be having *that talk* in reverse...trying to tell her it's alright if she finds a man she likes and we (her 4 grown up children, youngest 26) will be happy for her.
Ltw at December 2, 2010 2:48 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/its-a-bootyfull.html#comment-1792278">comment from LtwI don't want to watch, but I'd like to see (in the figurative sense) my divorced mother get some.
Of course, you're an adult. I'd feel the same way if I had parents who weren't married or a parent who was widowed.
Amy Alkon at December 2, 2010 3:53 AM
" I think it's really sad when people blame their parents for everything and refuse to grow up and say "oh yeah my mom is just a person like me with faults, prone to human error, etc."
Yep, that 10 year old should surely do that. How dare he expect a childhod where his mom actually takes care of him. Selfish ass, that one!
momof4 at December 2, 2010 5:18 AM
I don't think that anyone's saying that a single mother can't have a sex life, or that her kids can't know that she's seeing someone. But they shouldn't be sleeping with random guys from the neighborhood, and they shouldn't be bringing these hook ups into the house. It's not about prudishness, it's about the risks they're exposing their children to.
Maybe this is a perspective that women don't have, because they don't understand how single mothers are seen by men. Most men aren't looking to raise someone else's children, so they're not typically interested in getting serious with a single woman with kid(s). That's not to say that they wouldn't sleep with one if presented the opportunity. But a potentially bigger problem comes from men who do want to settle in with single women. They're often the ones that childless women don't want. The cliche of the single mother w/ a loser boyfriend came about for a reason.
Maurice at December 2, 2010 7:42 AM
I'll just chime in with agreement that this isn't about prudish attitudes toward sex, it's about doing what's best for one's child. If a single mom just can't live without sex, she should at least keep it away from her kids and have the tact to find someone who doesn't live right next door, although she shouldn't fool herself that kids aren't perceptive enough to figure things out at some point.
It depends on how principled you want to be, in the end. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but as for casting metaphorical stones, it's nothing I haven't cast upon myself already. I'm pretty sure chastising people, making moral judgements and so on are perfectly normal and acceptable; how else would we talk about anything apart from the weather?
I know how hard it can be, but just because something is hard it doesn't mean it's impossible and that it should be dismissed as "too unrealistic." One should at least aim for a little dignity.
Thag Jones at December 2, 2010 8:10 AM
"But a potentially bigger problem comes from men who do want to settle in with single women. They're often the ones that childless women don't want. The cliche of the single mother w/ a loser boyfriend came about for a reason."
Two other worries:
1) It's not at all uncommon for pedophiles to put the moves on a single mom to get at the kids.
2) The most likely person to kill the kids is mom's boyfriend/stepdad. I don't know if this is related to the thing where male cats who take over a pride kill all the cubs, or just that kids can be trying, and he doesn't have her emotional stake and therefore patience, but it's tragically common.
Dana at December 2, 2010 9:15 AM
It's not at all uncommon for pedophiles to put the moves on a single mom to get at the kids.
It's not just pedo's. Having a teenage girl in the house is going to be too much temptation for certain men. Situations where a live in boy friend engages in a sexual relationship w/ a teenage girl in the home are common enough that it's obviously something to take into consideration.
Maurice at December 2, 2010 11:00 AM
Jon q public wrote:
"However, having such total disregard for your child's feelings of security within his own family is so far away from perfect that, in my mind, it nearly warrants a negligence charge."
Look, I just think this point of view is based in fear of female sexuality, and the naive view that all children are totally unaware of sex on the whole. At least she was home with her kids and protecting them. Mothers too often leave their kids with sitters who molest them, they usually do it to get some time away from the kids thinking it's better to go out with their completely natural sexuality than bring it into the home because they are afraid of looking like bad mothers.
Amy says this is NOT about sex but providing a child with an ideal childhood. Fair enough, what's ideal? The absence of sexuality? That's just more fuel for the whore-madonna complex! How regressive. On balance, I love this: "be truthful -- say that men and women sometimes do stuff to make each other feel good" .
Total disregard? Let's take a closer look JQP...
Here's a mom who screwed up, and is now looking for a way to make amends with her child through communication, in addition-- she is looking for a way to go about it without being negative when the topic of human sexuality comes up. she's also seeking the opinions of others and not just trying to guess how to proceed with this issue. She obviously is giving a fair amount of thought to what happened and what to do now. How far from ideal is that?
Gspotted at December 2, 2010 3:47 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/its-a-bootyfull.html#comment-1792682">comment from GspottedAmy says this is NOT about sex but providing a child with an ideal childhood. Fair enough, what's ideal? The absence of sexuality?
Um, no, the absence of your mother fucking some guy.
It's a little hard to paint me as some prude. I'm certainly not.
This mother wasn't even sure about her son's developmental level and/or readiness to hear about sex. But, you are? Right.
Children wonder about a lot of things, but one of them shouldn't be "I wonder which cock Mommy will be riding this week."
If you want to fuck around, be me: no children, just a little dog. Or, if you want to be this woman and fuck around, get a fucking babysitter.
Amy Alkon at December 2, 2010 4:21 PM
I'd say this was no BFD, and the child is fine.
Mommy sounds like a live wire, and she'll probably pass those rough-and-tumble genes through.
Jeez, people seem to think that seeing 18,000 murders on TV is fine and dandy, but a single sex act will hard their kids.
Oh, well.
BOTU at December 2, 2010 5:39 PM
"I just think this point of view is based in fear of female sexuality, "
Nobody here is afraid of female sexuality. We think bring strangers home to screw is a bad fucking idea when you have little kids. You choose to have them, you have to raise them, and that means some sacrifices. The naked playtime is going to be severely curtailed, deal with it or don't breed.
"Multiple fathers in a hunter gatherer society has a higher survival rate."
Do we live in a hunter-gatherer society? Are we likely to ever again? This has what to do with anything now?
momof4 at December 2, 2010 5:53 PM
Amy - "That notion worked really well here, huh?"
Amy, just because the parents haven't set the boundaries, doesn't mean that I'm wrong. A 10 year old is old enough to know not to do a lot of things.
10 years old is old enough that you shouldn't have to hold their hand crossing the street, they should know better than to cheat, and they should know to respect people's privacy. You think 10 years old is too young to know they shouldn't walk into the bathroom when the door is closed and someone is in it? No different from walking into mom's bedroom.
William (wbhicks@hotmail.com) at December 2, 2010 7:46 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/its-a-bootyfull.html#comment-1792773">comment from William (wbhicks@hotmail.com)There's how life "should" work out and how life is likely to. I know a 10-year-old very well -- a pretty mature, pretty great kid. He's still 10, and there's a measure of impulsivity and pushing limits to that. Also, again, no 10-year-old should have to hear Mommy fucking some trick.
Momof4 said it exactly right just above.
Amy Alkon at December 2, 2010 8:14 PM
@ Gspotted --
Amy and momof4 already said exactly what I would have regarding your post.
As for your last paragraph, you have a good point. This woman knows she screwed up and is putting a lot of thought into damage control. She's not a monster.
She screwed up really, really, big.
My comments were deliberately harsh out of frustration that a few posters were actually excusing this behavior. As though seeing your mother have sex is somehow the same as being exposed to female sexuality in the greater society.
A naked woman selling soap on a T.V. ad, for example. My children were raised in Europe for a while and were exposed to this kind of thing a lot. I certainly never tried to hide their eyes or shield them from feminine sexuality. It was part of a healthy backdrop.
Seeing their mother getting jackhammered like a jailhouse pillow? That they were never allowed to see and I'm sure they would thank us for that today.
There is a huge difference.
jonQpublic at December 2, 2010 11:45 PM
Just thought I'd throw something out here, since William reminded me with this comment in regards to whether or not the kid knew better than to open the door:
"A 10 year old is old enough to know not to do a lot of things."
When this article was first posted on Creators a couple weeks ago, several of the commenters there thought the little boy might have opened the door despite the edict because of the weird noises. Or, countering that, if he was sexually aware, it was to stop his mommy from doing that. Just food for thought.
As for Gspotted's views on this being more about fear of female sexuality, I'm going to refute that a little. If the father was the primary caregiver and he had been caught out doing this, we'd surely be flaming him the same way. When kids are first beginning to learn about sex, a lot of the time the concept is introduced (when not being introduced as playground gossip, anyways) by adults as being something two people who love each other do. There's an implication of commitment, of permanent feelings, and, well, it's something you do only with someone very special. Not something that happens between Mom & Mr. Phil From Across the Street Who Comes Over On Movie Night Sometimes. It circles back to the argument that you just don't get it on while the kids are home. Because the sex discussion isn't just about what the penis and vagina do, it's the why's of it, too. There are layers.
cornerdemon at December 3, 2010 6:51 AM
My parents divorced when I was 12. I was aware of my mother's boyfriends, which she had even before the divorce. I especially remember one who was abusive to her, but she never had them spend the night in our home. However, her behavior affected my opinion of women for most of my life. My first two wives were very difficult and somewhat slutty--they screwed around. I thought I couldn't do any better because I thought all women were that way. I now know better; I have now been happily married for 25 years.
ken at December 3, 2010 10:51 AM
When this article was first posted on Creators a couple weeks ago, several of the commenters there thought the little boy might have opened the door despite the edict because of the weird noises. Or, countering that, if he was sexually aware, it was to stop his mommy from doing that. Just food for thought.
AHA! - that would explain why she's directing 'entitled' and 'apologize' towards the son. I didn't understand why she'd taken such a defensive tone in her letter. The little bastard may have cock blocked the neighbor!
Realistically there's nothing she can say that's going to make this sort of behavior OK for the kid. If the trailer's a rockin' don't come a knockin' ?!? I mean how to you prepare a child for spontaneous naked foreplay with random men?
lilo at December 3, 2010 1:05 PM
While I agree 100% with Amy's advice here, I was struck by the contrast between the general reaction here and the reaction to the blog post about an 11 year old boy who found his parent's marijuana and took it to school.
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/10/24/pot_ruins_lives.html#comments
The general consensus seemed to be "parents totally have the right to smoke weed and that kid was a smarmy little brat for turning them in." That's a far cry from the (correct) attitude over here that parents owe their kids an idyllic childhood, and that your right to do whatever you want ends if you have kids. I know that I as an 11 year old would have been traumatized and upset to discover my parents smoking weed, and it would sure have given me a fucked up attitude towards drug and alcohol use. An elementary schooler isn't old enough to understand the nuances of pot being not that bad for you and much, much different from most other illegal drugs, just as he isn't going to understand that mommy has sexual needs. It just still blows my mind that there were dozens of commenters ready to defend to the death this couple's right to imbibe in illegal substances in front of their kids.
Shannon at December 3, 2010 1:08 PM
A few things
1. I doubt the female, athiest, non married, currenly having naked fun time in another country with a guy not her husband, advice columnist is afraid of femal sexuality.
2.Dana, the person most likey to kill the kids is mom
3. Shannon most of the people of the parents weed thread were opining that the kid went serching for the weed, and were wonering whether the freindly school narc cop had bothered to mention to little Timmy that turning in his folks would mean jail time and foster care.
lujlp at December 3, 2010 3:34 PM
several of the commenters there thought the little boy might have opened the door despite the edict because of the weird noises
I can't think mom can really say for certain whether the kid knocked, being indisposed as she was at the time.
NumberSix at December 3, 2010 10:53 PM
cornerdemon - "it was to stop his mommy from doing that"
I hadn't thought of that, and that's likely why it happened.
My ex spent 7 years in prison. My girls were 3 and 5 when she was locked up. I didn't have sex while she was locked up, but I doubt I would make the same decision if I had to do it over again. It messes with your head.
I never said that mom should have been doing this with her kids around, but I can understand doing it. Maybe she thought they were asleep and wouldn't know, but I'm not going to condemn her for wanting to do it.
William (wbhicks@hotmail.com) at December 4, 2010 10:06 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/its-a-bootyfull.html#comment-1793452">comment from William (wbhicks@hotmail.com)I'm not going to condemn her for wanting to do it.
Civilization and adulthood are about curbing your urges. Being a mother, especially, is about it. I'm far too selfish to be anyone's mommy, and sure wouldn't want to have a bunch of kiddies around to cramp my slutstyle (back in my pre-boyfriend days), but at least I realized that and didn't reproduce.
Amy Alkon at December 4, 2010 11:05 AM
my parents had sex w/me and my brother in the room until i was 12 or 13 years old. i can tell you this kind of thing does indeed fuck a kid up. it was horrific for us. not until later in life did i clue in to how utterly selfish they were. even on "wholesome" family hikes i was always very aware of being in the way of my dad finding some rock or tree on/against which to fuck my mom. i'm not sure why he/they chose to refrain in that context when they were A-ok w/our being right next to them in the bedroom. EW!!!
trina at December 4, 2010 4:54 PM
My my....this happens way to often. For some reason, women with children after divorce turns into a total slutfest, and a total lack of common sense and responsibility for children that she probably doesn't want except for the money anyway. Sad to see this happen. I see this all the time at my office...the women bragging about so and so coming over and spending the night and how the kids were asleep and never woke up.
Result of no-fault and easy divorce where the courts award the wrong person the children.
I have had many girlfriends since my divorce. The only difference between me and the slutty and irresponsible LW is that I go out on dates and have people over when my ex has her visitation time every other weekend.
stupid, stupid, stupid.
mike at December 5, 2010 9:18 PM
Man oh man, I'm glad my mom felt it was okay for her to still be a woman, not JUST a mother, after my step dad left. She would have been so unhappy.
Then, sex in my house was never a taboo, undiscussed subject. And I grew up just fine with a totally healthy attitude toward sex (as in, I dated my first for six months before I decided I was in love at 17, and we're still together 6 1/2 years later). My siblings are all the same way. I whole-heartedly believe that the parents who base their ENTIRE identity around being parents are (usually) the ones who raise the entitled, spoiled brats.
I don't recall the LW saying how long she'd been divorced, so who's to say her kid was traumatized? My mom and dad divorced when I was young, and I can't imagine them together. It just seems wrong. Maybe she's known the neighbor for years, or maybe they've been flirting for months, hence the dinner. I certainly don't get the impression that she was like, "Whelp, it's been about a week... what single male haven't I boned yet?"
Nikky at December 6, 2010 10:16 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/its-a-bootyfull.html#comment-1794479">comment from NikkyMaybe she's known the neighbor for years,
He's some guy she knew but had no relationship with.
And sorry, as a mother, you can fuck whomever you want, their barnyard animals, and their soccer team, and all at once if you want, but do it in a motel so your kids don't have to hear it.
A question: How would you like it if you were a guest staying in some friends' house and heard the headboard bumping and grunts and moans? Now imagine you're 10, the child of divorce (not a stabilizing element in kids' lives, to say the least), and it's your Mommy getting fucked by some near-stranger. Nice.
Amy Alkon at December 6, 2010 10:23 AM
don't recall the LW saying how long she'd been divorced, so who's to say her kid was traumatized?
Doesnt matter if she left her husband because he spent the weekend raping barnyard animals - kids are always traumatized by divorce, even in the instances where divorce is acctually the "right" thing to do.
Hell, my parents divorced over 25yrs ago; I still cry every time I hear 'Wonderful' by Everclear.
lujlp at December 6, 2010 6:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e03ZLq-KRpU
lujlp at December 6, 2010 7:10 PM
For some reason, women with children after divorce turns into a total slutfest, and a total lack of common sense and responsibility for children
Some women kind of regress after a divorce. They can get very selfish and irresponsible. I know a few women who've ended up having to raise their grandchildren because their daughters couldn't handle it on their own. Also it's harder for single women with kids. They can get taken advantage of by men.
Rosa at December 6, 2010 8:35 PM
Thank god I never had kids - you are damned six ways till Sunday.
(I do agree, no sexytimes after divorce; vibrator only to take care of your "needs" and make sure the kids are off the perimeter).
Just my opinion here: American culture is very, very harsh on it's mommies. They are criticized for not breastfeeding, for working outside the home, staying at home, gaining weight during pregnancy, not home schooling, not keeping daddy sexually fulfilled forcing him to go out tomcattin', not keeping her looks up, hovering over child too much, not hovering enough. And should there be a divorce, it's usually mommy that takes the brunt of the shame n' blame. Everybody hates mommy, it would seem.
Sheesh, who needs any of it?
I too, am selfish and freely admit it!
Julia at December 7, 2010 5:33 PM
Yes Julia, it takes a special kind of person to be a good parent. Unfortunately, it doesn't take much effort at all to be a bad parent.
Most women who get the shame and blame after divorce deserve it. I think this country should start realizing that we need to put a stop to the divorce rate, and if not, we need to start awarding children to the parent who can best provide and care for them, regardless of gender.
mike at December 8, 2010 5:05 AM
Well Mike, we could also stop pushing marriage and parenthood on everyone, because, quite simply, it is NOT for everyone. Want to lower the divorce rate? Don't get married just to follow along with the social agenda.
I'm married, no kids by mutual choice; a childless-by-choice married woman seems to be a personal affront to society. Many were the times I wished I could simply remove my uterus and hand it over in a nice gift-wrapped package to the deeply concerned inquirer.
Julia at December 8, 2010 10:01 AM
Yes, Julia, I agree with you. We need to eliminate any and all finacial incentives to being married. What does it matter these days?
mike at December 9, 2010 9:37 AM
Oh my goodness. Have any of you even MET a 10-year-old? I've got two (plus I work in schools). Believe me they would survive such an unfortunate incident with their psyches intact. I'll bet the same people who think this is a big deal are the type who take kids to horror movies. Spend a few minutes in an upper elementary or middle-school lunchroom and you will come away with a whole new idea about these innocent, impressionable kids. And don't worry about the sex talk, Mom. The other kids have covered it.
Supermom at December 31, 2010 6:20 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/its-a-bootyfull.html#comment-1812504">comment from SupermomEncountering mom and dad having sex is probably not a big deal. Walking in on mom and some dude from next door probably is. Why are people so incapable of understanding the difference?
Amy Alkon at December 31, 2010 6:46 AM
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