When Plush Comes To Shove
I fear I've already turned off the new guy I'm dating because of a ritual I can't seem to give up. I sleep with a stuffed bunny. I'm in my mid-30s, but I've had it since childhood, and I just find sleeping with it comforting. For the first month of dating this guy, I didn't bring it to bed. But now that I'm feeling more relaxed with him, I grab for it after we've finished our intimate stuff. He seems rather unimpressed, to say the least. The other night, he said something like "Now, how old are you again?" Is this something I need to stop doing, or something that somebody who cares about me should just accept?
--Can't Let Go Of Floppy
Back when they couldn't show sex in movies, they'd let you know it'd happened by showing a couple having drinks and kissing, then cut to one of them in bed smoking a cigarette -- not sucking a thumb and cuddling a bunny.
The guy you're dating has an image of you in his mind -- probably as a sophisticated, sexy, sensual adult woman. Surprise, surprise, after doing unspeakable things with you in bed, he finds it unsettling to see you spooning Floppy, and maybe worries for a moment that he just committed a crime. He might feel different if you just had the bunny on the shelf as a souvenir of your childhood. For a lot of guys, that's no big deal. There are even some who'd be okay with the bunny in the bed -- like the mid-level manager who attends Comic-Con in a Klingon suit and goes to sleep afterward in Spider-Man footsie pajamas.
In psychology, a stuffed animal is a "transitional object" -- a thing that helps a child work through his or her separation from Mommy. (It seems you and Mommy are running a few decades behind -- something you and a therapist might give a look-see.) Like your current guy, a lot of guys will be turned off when, after sex, you turn away from them to make sleepies with your bunny. To give yourself the widest selection of dating partners, you'll need a new bedtime ritual. My suggestion? Put Flops on a shelf and fall asleep thinking happy thoughts about how you're making room for a very special new friend -- one who might be missing fur on his head, but not because the neighbors' dog used him as a chew-toy when you were 5.
He seems rather unimpressed, to say the least. The other night, he said something like "Now, how old are you again?"
Ok, Amy's advice is sensible from a practical standpoint. But my opinion is the guy is a prick. And if the reason really is that he's turned off by the implicit rejection in the LW cuddling a bunny after sex (presumably when you were both going to sleep anyway), he has serious self-esteem issues and falls into a category of people I like to call "people who desperately need to experience real problems and stop whining about nothing".
--Can't Let Go Of Floppy
Maybe if you used your other hand to cuddle the other floppy in the bed then the poor sad little boy might not feel so rejected...
Ltw at November 9, 2010 11:16 PM
Hmmm. I see whence you are coming, Ltw, but I actually read this letter a bit differently. To me, "I grab for it after we've finished our intimate stuff" reads as she grabs for it right after the intimate stuff. I don't know if that's actually the case, but that's how it reads to me. She does say that she likes sleeping with it, but it seems that it may be more than that, which the "can't let go" in her signature may indicate. If it's comfort and cuddling you need, LW, there's a man-size cuddle-bunny in the bed next to you. Like Amy said, turning away from a live person to a stuffed one smacks less of "can't let go" than "don't wanna let go."
I guess my worry here is that she turns immediately from the boyfriend to Floppy. With the exception of removing whatever birth control may have been used, needing to do something immediately after sex is a bit disturbing. Also, the way she says "after we've finished our intimate stuff" is off-putting. Like she was enduring until she could reach for Floppy. Maybe I'm just being too nit-picky, but "after we've finished our intimate stuff" coupled with the stuffed animal doesn't speak of an emotionally mature or secure person.
As long as I'm parsing, I have to point out that the quote is "he said something like 'How old are you again?'" So he may not have said that exactly, but that's how she interpreted. Maybe boyfriend wasn't being whiny, but was just a little clumsy in his attempt to figure out why Floppy came out to play after a month in hiding. That's kind of an odd thing to spring on a guy.
LW, it's probably in your best interests to find out why you need Floppy. If it really is for security, that's going to put a barrier between you and your guy. If you need the bunny in your bed to feel secure, you're not going to let yourself get totally emotionally invested in your relationship.
Then again, this really could be just about a bunny.
NumberSix at November 9, 2010 11:49 PM
The guy's comment was rude, no question. However, NumberSix has a good point. Right after having sex, she needs to grab an object to comfort. Apparently the thought of cuddling with the man she just had sex with is not comforting to her.
And he probably sees this.
Still, she does have a man who's into cuddling. Maybe she should ditch him and get with Andrew Dice Clay, who, with his signature crudeness, showed his disdain for cuddling after sex.
"'Why won't you hold me? Why won't you talk to me?' 'Cause I'm done.'"
Patrick at November 10, 2010 2:11 AM
Amy, excellent answer -- funny, yet wise.
I feel compelled, as a man, to respond to Ltw's very funny comment.
"Maybe if you used your other hand to cuddle the other floppy in the bed ..."
Though a very witty play on words, women should know one thing. Once Floppy is floppy, Floppy is floppy. It'll dance around again when it's darn good and ready, dag nabbit. Don't put Floppy on the spot! Arrrrrrrgh!
Yes, I know I have issues ... If you'll excuse me, I'll now take my leave and cuddle with Stretch-Arm-Strong and the Rock'em Sock'em Robots.
jonQpublic at November 10, 2010 4:32 AM
Well, it's not a live animal. THAT issue is a staple of advice columns, so at least it's not smelling up the bedroom and in need of feeding and attention.
And, she's not taking meds to sleep. I would feel more put off by seeing a partner of mine scarfing down pills to help him get a few zzzz's.
I mention the meds because with all the activity in my own life over the last two years--taking care of an elderly parent--I needed a bit of medicinal help to get to sleep and needed it for about a year. I didn't like it, but then I didn't like looking and feeling like a sack of potatoes day after day either.
So...it's a bunny. Big deal. I sleep with the blanket over my head, which I know MUST be a leftover from my childhood. Most of my boyfriends have found this endearing. Really. Maybe this guy will too, in time.
ie at November 10, 2010 4:38 AM
I'm with ie on this one. For crying out loud, Freud, it's a freaking stuffed bunny! If that's the boyfriend's biggest problem with the LW, he should probably count himself as lucky.
Now, others might argue that Mr. Floppers is emblematic of other issues, and maybe they're right. But if that's the case, I wouldn't think a toy animal would be the only symptom, and if it is, than maybe LW has found a reasonably effective, if somewhat odd, way of dealing with her issues.
Old RPM Daddy at November 10, 2010 5:02 AM
NumberSix, we've managed to disagree. Thank goodness. I don't know for sure, but I'm not reading "reach for my comforter and ignore my boyfriend" into this, just getting ready for bed and sleep after sex. Like putting your pajamas back on if you wear them. Yes I agree the wording of "after we've finished our intimate stuff" is a little funny, but not everyone is as open about these things. I still think, given the information I have, that he's being insensitive.
Glad you liked the joke jonQpublic :)
Ie, you're right that live animals are much more of an issue - but anyone who tells me my cats can't sleep on or in the bed will find out I don't pressure well, and don't care if it limits my dating options. Funny story, a friend of mine slept in my bed after a drunken night out and the cat that likes to sleep in the bed at my feet snuggled in as usual. Next day she was telling a mutual friend at breakfast "I woke up and I could feel a furry thing between my legs". The people at the next table nearly fell off their chairs....
Ltw at November 10, 2010 5:03 AM
For crying out loud, Freud, it's a freaking stuffed bunny!
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Unless you're Bill Clinton.
Ltw at November 10, 2010 5:06 AM
Of course the boyfriend would notice and make a comment on such a strange habit from an otherwise mature woman in her thirties.
I suspect, as does NumberSix, that the comment may not have been as ham-handed as the letter writer remembers. It's possible that the letter writer heard it that way because of her very reasonable insecurities about this pretty strange habit.
We may be reading too much into it, but the letter writer is surely reading a lot into it. That's why it's likely to be a bigger problem than meets the eye. If she was comfortable with it, we wouldn't have heard the story at all. Her cigar is more than just a cigar. And by the way, ladies, my Floppy is more than just a floppy.
jonQpublic at November 10, 2010 5:56 AM
falls into a category of people I like to call "people who desperately need to experience real problems and stop whining about nothing".
I'm inclined to agree, but who knows. At least she refers to the bunny as "it" and not "her" or "him"! Look on the bright side!
If he makes comments like the example, just try turning it into a joke or a flirt somehow - don't get rattled over it. Try to get over the fear of losing him....
The real problem here is that this is the trouble you bring on yourself by getting physically intimate without any real commitment before you really know each other. Now you're terrified of losing him and he's worried about your childish habit of bringing a bunny to bed. For people in their mid-30s, does this all not sound a tad ridiculous? Because it does to me.
Thag Jones at November 10, 2010 6:14 AM
She's definitely getting ready to put floppy on a shelf, or she wouldn't have written it. Reminds me of when I was two and noticed some murmuring about it from the adults. It was a difficult couple of days before I was confident that I was a big girl and threw it away.
About what he said - hope it was gentle. One of the things I value most about my boyfriend is that he calls me on stuff in a very kind way. Seems to me both parts of that are important.
AntoniaB at November 10, 2010 6:24 AM
NumberSix, don't put too much stock into the wording. Amy has said before that she takes several email/letter exchanges and boils them down into one letter, so it's hard to tell what is Amy's editing and what the Original LW may have written word for word.
((As for me, I'm still not entirely sure it's not a joke letter.))
Still, I'd suggest if the LW is worried about it, she wean herself off bunny for a while. If it's the matter of having something under your arm, just get a throw pillow and use that for a while. As someone who needs to have something under my arm, this is the technique I use. It's better than my dad, who uses a full size pillow, anyway. Just make sure it isn't a Dora the Explorer pillow. ^_~
cornerdemon at November 10, 2010 6:39 AM
I too have the habit of sleeping with a stuffed animal, a koala that was a present for my 2nd birthday. It's not that I couldn't sleep without it, but I don't see a compelling reason to stop.
No guy has ever made an issue of it, probably because I've never treated it like a big deal. They seem to take it as it is, a harmless quirk of an otherwise mature and responsible adult. Or perhaps it's reassurance that despite my type-A, practical, get-things-done nature and sarcastic humor, that I do have a sentimental side.
Allison at November 10, 2010 7:05 AM
Isn't it kind of ironic that guys are encouraged to give us stuffed animals? I have a few on my shelf that my guy gave me over the past 3 yrs of dating - usually attached to some flowers or other gift. In fact, he put my enagement ring in the arms of a teddy bear at Christmas last year.
I'm not really a stuffed animal person, but now, it seems rude and unsentimental to throw them out (how could I possibly toss engagement teddy?!) So, here I am in my mid-40s with a shelf of teddies again.
Anyway, I think she should wean herself from sleeping with the stuffed animal, but I also agree that, if he really likes her, this shouldn't be a dealbreaker, and the fact she already fears it is, tells her that he's not the one.
lovelysoul at November 10, 2010 7:28 AM
lovelysoul, I hate those gifts! I am so glad no one ever bought me one because I wouldn't want to have to keep the damn thing. Anyway, saying "he's not the one" over this seems a little over board. First, this whole idea of "the one" is silly and will make people forever wonder if so-and-so is "the one" and "what if he isn't? After all, he did hang the toilet paper in the under position when everyone knows it's supposed to be in the over position..."
This is how people end up still in this kind of a quandary in their mid-30s. Also, this confirms my suspicion that there is almost always a reason someone who wanted to be married is still single in their mid-30s. And lest you think I'm being unfair, I include myself in that statement.
Thag Jones at November 10, 2010 7:56 AM
I have a boatload of stuffed animals, as do my daughters. Sweet memories, but that's about it. Some are on the bed but by the time the morning rolls around, they're mostly on the floor. I just pick 'em up and throw back on the bed after I make it. They've never been an issue with any boyfriends, probably because even though they're there, I don't pay much attention to them. Maybe LW just likes having it around, who knows? But to make this a deal breaker doesn't make sense.
Flynne at November 10, 2010 8:36 AM
First from a physical perspective. Spooning with the girl on the outside doesn't work unless you are of similar height and size. So she's curled around the bunny and you curl around her. I see no impediment to intimacy. On the scale of weird partner behavior it's a non issue. Psychologists say a lot of shit some of it scientific some pulled right smack dab out the ass.
Amy: Really? This form the women who wants to go home after sex? You are questioning her post-coital behavior. "Ok thanks by" hurts most guy who are in it for the long term far more then snuggling a stuffed animal.
"There are even some who'd be okay with the bunny in the bed -- like the mid-level manager who attends Comic-Con in a Klingon suit and goes to sleep afterward in Spider-Man footsie pajamas."
Or a top level medical engineer and business owner. I have never been to comic con and don't wear Klingon costumes. If I feel the need to compete with a stuffed animal for affection I need the shrink not her.
vlad at November 10, 2010 8:43 AM
"For the first month of dating this guy, I didn't bring it to bed."
I think that might have something to do with the problem.
"But now that I'm feeling more relaxed with him, I grab for it after we've finished our intimate stuff."
What about him? He was probably feeling more relaxed, too. I think she probably knocked him a bit off balance, there.
The letter could have come from him. Dear Advice Goddess: I've been sleeping with this woman for a month and it's been great, but a few nights ago...
Don't blind-side your lover. If you have a little custom that is too important to give up, put it out there at the start! "I sleep with Binky, okay? Deal with it." And he would probably deal with it.
Pricklypear at November 10, 2010 8:44 AM
My 2 cents,
She likes a stuffed animal, who cares. She likes the stuffed animal more than she likes him, could be a deal.
Of course my question would be does she secretly want him to dress up in a furry costume.
Joe at November 10, 2010 8:55 AM
This is a problem? A stuffed bunny in the bed? Who cares?
BOTU at November 10, 2010 9:56 AM
Thag, you're probably right that saying he's not "the one" at this stage is foolish, but what I meant is that if he dumps her over a stuffed bunny, he obviously doesn't feel very strongly about her to begin with. There will be plenty of bigger relationship issues than this.
It really all depends on how he said, "Now, how old are you again?" If it was in a cute, teasing, yet still loving tone, there's no problem, but I'm gathering from her comments ("he was unimpressed, to say the least") that he said this in a critical manner.
To me, if someone gets that judgmental over a silly stuffed bunny, it indicates that they're either looking for problems in order to end the relationship, or they aren't the type of partner who can work through much tougher issues well.
lovelysoul at November 10, 2010 10:15 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1779969">comment from lovelysoulif he dumps her over a stuffed bunny, he obviously doesn't feel very strongly about her to begin with
There are just dealbreakers for some people. For me, much as I feel for guys who feel compelled to wear women's underwear, if I come home to you wearing my thong, we're done. No matter if you're Gandhi, Jesus, George Clooney, Clive Owen, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington (he was hot!) all rolled into one.
Amy Alkon at November 10, 2010 10:27 AM
Indeed lovelysoul, this is pretty small potatoes. She may be taking more offence than was intended of course, which isn't good either! And did she spend that month when she did without the bunny longing for it to be in her arms? It does seem funny that while she's comfortable enough to have sex with him, it's taken this long to bring out the deep dark secret that - dun dun duuuun! - she sleeps with a stuffed toy bunny!!!
Thag Jones at November 10, 2010 10:29 AM
"It does seem funny that while she's comfortable enough to have sex with him, it's taken this long to bring out the deep dark secret that - dun dun duuuun! - she sleeps with a stuffed toy bunny!!!"
Yeah, and that's just the thing. She's obviously very sensitive about it, as opposed to some of the women here, who treat it like no big deal. I have a sentimental bunny, so what?
Maybe she's being oversensitive and taking his comments as critical when they aren't meant to be, or he's picked up on this being a sore spot and decided to make her feel even worse.
And, with all respect, Amy, having a stuffed animal in the bed is really not the same as a crossdressing fetish.
lovelysoul at November 10, 2010 10:40 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1780016">comment from lovelysoulAnd, with all respect, Amy, having a stuffed animal in the bed is really not the same as a crossdressing fetish.
It's unappealing, as is a guy who wants to share my panties.
If a man slept with a stuffed bunny, I'd be about as sexually interested in him as I am in my lamp.
Amy Alkon at November 10, 2010 12:20 PM
Would it be the same if she slept with a pacifier or sucked her thumb? One of the great things about being an adult is you can be around other adults—not adults who want to revisit childhood on a daily basis. If she needs that in her life, either have a kid or go work at a daycare or babysit.
Razor at November 10, 2010 12:20 PM
I too have a stuffed bunny that I've had for many years, although I don't sleep with it. Usually it's on a chair in the corner of my room. Until my boyfriend gave me a stuffed bear a few years back. Now when I make the bed, Teddy and Bunny will occasionally be put up there. Many times in compromising positions. You should have seen the look on my boyfriends face and heard how hard he laughed the first time he came home and saw the bear, leaning back on the pillows, with the bunny's head between his legs! It even looked like the bear was grabbing the bunny's ears...
Jill at November 10, 2010 12:31 PM
lol, Jill. Great visual.
It would be totally different if this were a guy sleeping with a bunny. That would be emasculating, and very unappealing to most women. But we females get away with a lot of cutesy, childish things that men can't - being scared of spiders, or bawling at sad movies. Just the difference between the sexes.
For every guy out there who finds this a turnoff, there's probably one who would find it cute and endearing. It's certainly not an issue that should make someone turn and run for the door. If he really likes her, he'd stay and show her that she can cuddle up to him for security, and bunny will eventually end up beside the bed.
lovelysoul at November 10, 2010 12:42 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1780036">comment from lovelysoulThe kind of guy I'm interested in would be interested in a woman, not a girl in a woman's body who hasn't grown up emotionally.
Amy Alkon at November 10, 2010 12:45 PM
Obviously, Amy, you are a strong woman, so the guys you attract are going to want that in a partner too.
But I think there are many guys, who, deep down, are charmed by a little wide-eyed, child-like innocence - just as they respond to those physical characteristics. I mean, for decades, women were taught to be coquetish and helpless seeming as a manner of seduction...to show the big strong man she needed him.
Today, that turns some guys off, but also some guys on. It would never have been a strategy if it didn't work. In this post-feminist age, some men find a woman who is more childlike to be more feminine and appealing than those who seem tough and independent.
And, clearly, a lot of grown women have stuffed animals - and many still collect dolls. The fact she sleeps with the bunny may be a bit much, but it shouldn't really be a dealbreaker.
lovelysoul at November 10, 2010 1:10 PM
Well, she could always tell the guy that the bunny has magic powers that will prevent her from getting pregnant...!
ie at November 10, 2010 1:18 PM
a quick & yet extremely scientific poll of the gents in the office here indicates that they are disturbed by the idea that a woman they just used all their best moves on would then need to be "comforted".
the 2 of them agree that they would be wondering what they'd done wrong.
hahahathud at November 10, 2010 1:53 PM
hahahathud, I think that's why this this letter kept bothering me. I read it a bunch of times, but I couldn't shake the thought that something is amiss if she's writing to an advice columnist about it. I think you're right in that it's odd that she needs comforting after sex. And, cornerdemon, I know that Amy edits, but I understand that she trims and condenses, not rewrites. But if that is the case here, I'm assuming the tone got across if not the actual words, so my concern about the wording stands.
My biggest problem with this situation is that the LW knows it's weird, or she wouldn't have hidden it for a month. If you had a stuffed animal you liked and that was the end of it, I can't think you'd worry too much about your boyfriend seeing it. "I have a stuffed bunny" is not the same as "I have a debilitating disease" on the spectrum of things that partners need to be introduced to out of honesty, but gently. If it wasn't an issue, she wouldn't have made it an issue, if you get me.
NumberSix at November 10, 2010 2:43 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1780115">comment from NumberSixMy assistant and I (she does the initial editing on the letters) are careful to preserve the person's words and if we do have to condense things, the spirit of the words. Much of the time, you really can't get better than the way the person actually said something.
Amy Alkon at November 10, 2010 2:50 PM
I'm wondering if this came up before with prior lovers.
Pricklypear at November 10, 2010 3:31 PM
I find it disturbing and a tad manipulative to pull out the bunny after a month. "Now that we've come so far, people will accuse him of being shallow if he leaves now". There's getting relaxed enough to "let it all hang out", but the guy/girl still gets to decide if the unvarnished date is still desirable to him/her.
If he was attracted to "child-like" and that really was a positive thing, you'd think she'd sell that from the start not sneak it into bed with her.
Cam at November 10, 2010 3:52 PM
Razor, you took the words right out of my mouth. I also think you're on to something #6. The way she describes it, it is just strange. She is not just sleeping with a stuffed animal, but she has to reach for it after sex, which I think most guys would be put off by.
It's very odd. And I say this as a 27-year-old who owns a stuffed Alf. It was the last thing my father gave me before he died when I was a kid, so I keep it on a shelf. Occasionally I do cuddle with it while I sleep, but only when I am feeling really sad and am by myself. When the bf is around, he is the one I snuggle with, so I don't need Alf. It's one thing to have a stuffed animal, but this is something else.
LL at November 10, 2010 5:28 PM
1-I don't like to cuddle after sex, because I'm hot and sweaty and so is he, and I want/need to cool down. It has no deeper significance than that.
2-I sleep with a pillow between my arms. When I was a kid, it was a stuffed animal, but I "matured" and started using a pillow instead. I sleep on my side, and with my outer arm propped up on a pillow, it keeps my arm from crushing my breasts while I sleep.
If she's used to having something in her arms but she's too embarrassed to have Mr. Floppy anymore, she can switch to a pillow and not come across as stunted.
Peegy C at November 10, 2010 7:21 PM
Damn, I can't even type my own name.
Peggy C at November 10, 2010 7:23 PM
Buy a lactation pillow. They're even better than stuffed animals for cuddling.
NicoleK at November 11, 2010 5:17 AM
Amy - George Washington was hot.
I sleep with a teddy bear, and have had him since before I can remember. He's the perfect shape to prop my head up on when I'm reading. I leave him at home when I spend the night over at Dearly Beloved's, but anyone who has a problem with him can suck it, I'm not giving it up and don't see why I should.
At least I don't snore.
Choika at November 11, 2010 6:18 AM
Having a stuffed bunny in the bed isn't a deal breaker for me, in and of itself. But it would cause me to look at her other behavior for signs of trouble. The obvious concern is that you're dealing with someone who is prone to regression.
There's a thin line between cute and creepy when it comes to these sorts of juvenile behaviors.
Steve at November 11, 2010 7:48 AM
I think creepy is a boiling bunny on the stove, not a cuddly stuffed one in the bed.
I get where Amy's coming from, i.e., that this makes the LW look immature, and perhaps in a troubling way, but compared to some of the really bad habits of potential partners out there, it's pretty tame.
When I compare it to some of the genuinely bad experiences some of my other single friends have had, it really just boils down to either an endearing or annoying habit.
I've had friends who have found out their partners were married (twice with one friend and she didn't know because each man--each quite wealthy--had his own private apartment), partners who have been pressured into foolishly loaning money (and no, these are smart, educated people) and other friends who have discovered their spouses or partners on online dating sites.
Those things are dealbreakers (as are the male partner wearing a borrowed thong), but to my mind they are genuinely hazardous. The bunny is harmless by comparison.
I get that perhaps seeing this furry creature might be a turn off for some men, but then a man who has his livingroom decorated with wheel rims as part of the decor might have the same effect on me. It's all about tastes and limits and what each individual can handle.
ie at November 11, 2010 8:52 AM
I sleep with three cats, 4 teddy bears, and 1 husband and have for twenty years. It has never been an issue. I like sleeping with my bears and have ever since I met him. He never says one word about it, just occasionally brings a new bear home when a previous one needs to be retired.
boogenhagen at November 11, 2010 9:59 AM
When, I was in college, o so many years ago, I joined a sorority. It was a learning experience, and one of the things that I learned is that I like men as a group much more than I like other women. One of the cutsie sorority things they liked to do, was that the pledges were encouraged to have little nickle and dime fund raisers to support various projects. When I was a senior they came up with the bright idea to "kidnap" stuffed animals that belonged to the sorority members and hold them for ransom. During that fund raiser, I found out by accident that I was the only member of the entire sorority who had no stuffed animals. I did have a gun though. They didn't take that. They took a can of deodorant instead. :-)
Isabel1130 at November 11, 2010 2:30 PM
I too have a favorite stuffed animal..erm, toy. It's a blue and green plaid stuffed Cthulhu. Yep, I have a cute and cuddly Great Old One, and if my hubby was to say anything about it, I would give him The Look. We all have our security blankets and adult pacifiers. If LW'r were smoking a cig there wouldn't be an issue (other than the usual nannyish stuff). So what if she has a bunny-toy sleeping aid? She's better off worrying about what this says about her BF that he's made an issue out of such a stupid thing. If he's that judgmental now, just wait til he REALLY gets going.
Kat at November 11, 2010 7:47 PM
To those posters who have said that they sleep with a stuffed animal and would give the Look to a partner who had a problem with it: you wouldn't have hidden it for a month and then said "either accept it or get out," would you? Because that's my problem with this. If BF had known from the beginning and was saying things about it, I would be on the side of LW telling him to accept it. But she knew it was at least sort of a problem, hence the month of bunnylessness.
Maybe the boyfriend is just a judgmental prick, but nevertheless, the LW made this into an issue when she took bunny out of commission for a month and then reintroduced him into her bed after she got comfortable around the BF. A mild bait-and-switch, but a bait-and-switch regardless. Like I said earlier, if it wasn't an issue for her, she wouldn't have made it one. Or written to Amy about it.
I would be saying this about any number of behaviors the LW could have exhibited that would be inconsequential but for her hiding them for a month until she got comfortable.
NumberSix at November 11, 2010 8:20 PM
Isn't "bait and switch" what most people pull during dating anyways? Hell, I've never been one to play stupid games, but I wish I had a nickle for every guy who "failed to mention" something during the begining of our relationship. I have done the "Cards on the table, this is me" every time, and it usually did me about as much good getting the other person to do the same as the Surgeon Generals warning on a pack of cigs does to stop people from smoking, which is to say, None.
So please, she "hid" Mr Flops for a month while she got to know the guy and try to figure out if she's comfortable/happy/gonna stay with him. You make it sound like she hid an STD, for crissakes. THAT would be an issue, this is not. If she is uncomfortable with the fact that she still has this childish habit, let her choose to change it because she wants to, not because some asshat tells her to.
Kat at November 11, 2010 8:35 PM
Hail Cthulhu. The darkness of the mythos is finally here. Oh man, these are really good lemon bars.
lujlp at November 11, 2010 9:28 PM
You make it sound like she hid an STD, for crissakes. THAT would be an issue, this is not.
Please see above re: I would say this about many issues. Yes, on the scale of things, this is very far on the side of "who gives a crap?" But she has made it an issue nonetheless, and it's having an impact on her relationship with her boyfriend. That's worth examining, no? She's writing to an advice columnist about it, so that tells me she is concerned. If she didn't care that BF didn't like the bunny or she didn't feel awkward about it, Amy wouldn't have gotten the letter and none of us would be having this discussion.
Also, if the boyfriend was the one writing in, I might also be more on the side of it not being an issue. But the LW is writing in about her own behavior, even though she's using the boyfriend's discomfort to frame it. She asks outright if this is something she needs to stop doing. She may just be looking for validation, but she asked the question.
If she is uncomfortable with the fact that she still has this childish habit, let her choose to change it because she wants to, not because some asshat tells her to.
Well, yeah. But the trouble is that people don't just spontaneously change their habits. Like Amy said in her response, needing a stuffed animal is something kids do to transition into being more mature, and then they grow out of it because they don't need that type of security anymore. Adults don't typically grow out of behavior that's persisted this long unless something or someone butts up against it. Either whatever she's needing the security from goes away or someone, asshat or no, takes issue with the behavior. I firmly agree that it's completely up to her to change if she wishes, but she's not going to wake up tomorrow and decide she doesn't need bunny anymore unless something else is the impetus for her realizing she needs to make the decision. I still say she should examine why she needs Floppy in her bed. If she doesn't want to change, it's up to her, but I think it's always wise to know one's motivations, especially if they're affecting her relationship and even if the behavior is something as minor as sleeping with a stuffed animal.
NumberSix at November 11, 2010 10:19 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1780842">comment from NumberSixRight on, NumberSix. I sometimes need to sleep with ear plugs and/or an eye mask, but these things are needed because I sometimes need to block out light or sound, not the fact that I'm no longer in sucking distance of Mommy's titty. If you NEED a stuffed animal to sleep securely, and you are not 6, chances are, you are in need of a few rounds in a therapist's office, to say the least.
Amy Alkon at November 11, 2010 10:40 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1780843">comment from KatIsn't "bait and switch" what most people pull during dating anyways? Hell, I've never been one to play stupid games, but I wish I had a nickle for every guy who "failed to mention" something during the begining of our relationship.
I was always the opposite. I'm friendly with this guy (Joe R.) now, but we were on a first date, and I got it right out there that I don't want children and don't believe in marriage or living together, and, well...he wanted to be married and have kids and a traditional life, and he asked me, "Well, should we still have dinner?" We did eat, but we knew to move on fast after that night.
Amy Alkon at November 11, 2010 10:42 PM
While I do believe there is such a thing as being too honest and having dates come off like job interviews, I firmly believe that you should balance presenting yourself in the best way and being upfront about things. Because it's going to be worse later than earlier if you don't tell your partner something that you then have to "introduce." The timing will only get worse.
And I'm not even saying that LW needs to go to therapy because she has some dire psychological problem. She may not. But she needs to know why she needs the bunny. Even just figuring that out may help her put it away. At the risk of being a psych major cliche, she should look at when exactly she started sleeping with the bunny, or at least why she kept him after she was aware she was getting older. Because dollars to doughnuts there was a point in, say, middle school or so, that she was embarrassed to have Floppy in her bed and kept it from any friends she had sleep over. And it's likely she didn't take it on overnight school trips if she had them. Now that I think of it, does she take Floppy anywhere else, like the boyfriend's place? Because that would be a clue to how attached she is. If she can leave him at home, it may be more habit than anything else at this point.
NumberSix at November 11, 2010 11:03 PM
If she was looking for validation, I'd suspect she found it here. I'm rather amazed by how many women have admitted to having and sleeping with stuffed animals. So, she's definitely not alone.
I liked the suggestion someone made about a lactation pilow. This is probably just a habit of having something in her arms. I can't sleep without being covered by a blanket, even in summer. We all have certain sleeping rituals.
We also all have certain things that we're embarrassed or sensitive about, rationally or not. I dye my hair, for instance. I haven't gone out of my way to tell or show that to my future husband because I'm a little sensitive about it (he's never asked). If he walked in while I had dye on my roots, I'd blush and run to the bathroom.
He probably already knows, or assumes, given my age, and eventually, that will probably happen. And, when it does, I trust that he won't make me feel bad about it. He's not going to say, "How gray are you again?"
That, to me, is the difference. Whether or not she wants to quit her bunny habit, the answer to her question "is this something somebody who cares about me should accept?" is yes.
If she feels bad about this bunny habit, she should stop it for herself, not because a guy is making her feel bad about it.
lovelysoul at November 12, 2010 7:16 AM
[quote]If she can leave him at home, it may be more habit than anything else at this point.[/quote]
How about, if she can leave it on a shelf for a month, it probably *is* a habit at this point, and the embarresment she feels has come from being put down because of it?
I have been accused of being too honest, and supposedly that "scares people", so I learned to scale things back. That is an example of your outside pressure causing a change.
I have also changed manymany things, just because I wanted to, and no one had to say a word.
But back to the LW, You want to dance around it, but you are implying in your own way that she 'needs' her bunny because of some traumatic deep-seated problem, or maybe she was abused/neglected/molested as a child, etc.
Sometimes, a small thing like this can be a 'signal', and sometimes it is just a habit.
I'll tell you why I don't believe that this is a big deal. She doesn't mention anywhere of having put Mr Flops in time out for any other guy. So why this one? What did she pick up from him, either on a concious or unconcious level that made her think that maybe it would be a good idea to mask her quirkiness? What is it about his behavior/treatment of her that made her think "Hmmmm, maybe I can't be myself around him."
As for grabbing for the rabbit after sex, that says more about her partner than you are all saying.
Here's my honest, gut reaction based on many years of having dealt with similar issues. She may be [quote]'in need of a few rounds in a therapist's office, to say the least.
Posted by: Amy Alkon Author Profile Page at November 11, 2010 10:4[/quote]
but she has a bigger problem, and that is the desperate tone in her "should I make a change to please this guy" question. She knows he's a judgmental asshat, she knew from the start because she hid the rabbit. Which says to me he's like that about everything. My gut is telling me that she needs to boot him before he gives her something to really be crazy enough to need therapy for.
This isn't like the guy saying "You know, hun, for your sake maybe we should get you someone to talk about your bunny fetish.", it was a full out *snort* "what are you, 5?!" Over a stuffed toy, not smoking, or drinking or drugs, or wearing spandex when she doesn't have the right. he put her down because of something stupid and trivial.
So, anyways, you want to go into the deep dark secrets she's hiding from, have at, but you should deal with the big bad problem she's facing now. And that's the gods honest truth.
Kat at November 12, 2010 10:26 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1781055">comment from KatShe knows he's a judgmental asshat,
There's nothing wrong with being "judgmental" -- in fact, we all are. But, a certain swath of people denigrates it -- while doing it without admitting it.
As my late friend Cathy Seipp used to say when accused of making "a value judgment," "I have values, therefore I make judgments."
It is, for many men, decidedly unsexy for an adult woman to need to go to bed with a stuffed animal. Some will put up with it, some pretend they have no problem with it because they don't have a wide choice of partners and need to take what they can get.
Amy Alkon at November 12, 2010 10:31 AM
And some will genuinely find it adorable. You leave that option out, Amy.
Yes, we all make judgments. But the people who voice every little judgment are awfully hard to live with. They usually don't make good partners.
If this guy leaves, I guarantee it's NOT because of the bunny. He may have a whole other list of dislikes and judgments, and this will just be the easiest one to use.
lovelysoul at November 12, 2010 10:46 AM
With all due respect, I judge peolpe all the time, but I don't make asshatted remarks because of it. You can have good judgement, or bad, and be judgemental. But what I said was "judgemental asshat", all together, not just "judgmental". There's a difference, I assure you. Anyone who has ever had their every move criticized by a judgmentalasshat (there, let's make that one word, so it makes more sense) knows that there comes a time when you either 1) break yourself trying to please the un-please-able, 2) become a passive-agressive jerk yourself, 3) get a clue and get the hell out of Dodge.
I vote for option 3. If he's like this over the rabbit, he'll be worse about the things that really matter.
Kat at November 12, 2010 11:07 AM
@Kat, Lovelysoul: I had a BF once who somehow managed to make me feel really uncomfortable around sleeping together. At the time I couldn't put a finger on what was making me respond to him like this, but I somehow felt like I was in his space "incorrectly" at times. Like I was there under sufferance. The sex part was great, which is what made the problematic sleeping together part so hard to understand.
For example, I've had boyfriends sometimes suggest, when either of us had a cold, that we not sleep together in the same bed. It's a practical suggestion and not one that I've often felt offended by. But when this BF did it, I somehow felt a bit hurt. It bothered me because it felt like rejection.
There are some people who just seem to have that effect on others. I often find it's very quiet people, who are quiet in a vaguely disconcerting way. Their quietness seems to feel critical. (I'm a quiet person myself, but I don't think it makes other people uncomfortable because I'm comfortable with it.)
The "How old are you?" question made me recall how I felt around my old BF. He was a bit cold in a way. If the LW is so insecure about this little habit of hers, it could be that her BF is having the same effect on her. I think you're right Kat. I don't think the bunny is the problem, but instead a symptom of how the LW may not be a good fit for her.
ie at November 12, 2010 11:41 AM
...may not be a good fit for her boyfriend.
ie at November 12, 2010 11:44 AM
I sleep with three cats, 4 teddy bears, and 1 husband and have for twenty years.
As a fellow cat person boogenhagen, let me congratulate you on finding a husband who can deal with it. I had three cats till a fortnight ago when I had to bury my cute but feisty and tough little bitch. One of the reasons I sympathise with the LW here is that if anyone told me the cats couldn't sleep on and in the bed I wouldn't even understand. I don't have teddy bears but I understand the attachment and wouldn't care if a gf wanted them.
Slightly funny story - a good friend slept in my bed a couple of weeks ago and the usual cat wormed her way down to our feet to snuggle up. Next morning we went for breakfast with some other friends and she announced "I woke up this morning and felt something furry between my legs!" Being fairly loud, she had the people at the next table laughing for a while...
Now that I think of it, does she take Floppy anywhere else, like the boyfriend's place? Because that would be a clue to how attached she is. If she can leave him at home, it may be more habit than anything else at this point.
I think you're overanalysing this time #6. Once upon a time when I traveled I took my own pillow because I hated hotel pillows. Now I've done it enough to get used to it. But I just liked to do it before. Didn't mean I was unreasonably attached, though I still like my pillow when I get home. If she feels comfortable with a stuffed toy, who cares? I stand by my original comment - I would find it cute, and I think the guy is a prick. Unless she's spooning the toy and not letting him touch her post-sex, which it doesn't sound like, I don't see a problem. And I seriously don't see a bait and switch problem here as several people have suggested. What is it about bed and sex that makes these things so serious? If I had a favourite coffee mug would that be a problem?
Ltw at November 12, 2010 11:48 AM
Thanks, ie, for putting what I couldn't into words. That's exactly the vibe I am getting, this reminds me so much of the guy I dated before I met my husband. After the initial 'honeymoon' period, he started criticizing everything I did, said, whatever. It was usually subtle, but sometimes it was downright abusive. Until I was able to realize the effect he was having on me really was a reaction to what *he* was saying/doing, I honestly thought it was my fault, and began trying harder to *please* him. Luckily I am a stubborn, down-to-earth kind of gal, and was able to look myself in the mirror one day and ask myself "whatinthehell are you doing, girl? You aren't the problem!"
You should have seen the dramatics when I booted him to the curb, the weeping, wailing and "You'll never find anyone who loves you like I do"'s echoed throughout the city, I'm sure.
Then I met my husband. He tells me things he does and doesn't like, and I do the same for him. But we don't criticize, we discuss. And tho we can both be a bit on the sarcastic side, we save that for joking around. Serious discussions are not a joking matter, imho.
Oh, and a word about what is and isn't sexy. My hubby snores, not loud, and I think it's kinda cute. But for someone else (with better hearing, probably) that might be an annoyance verging on dealbreaker.
My hubby wears a kilt and plays bagpipes. I like it, some people would say he's wearing a skirt and and strangling a cat.
To each his own, and learn to pick your battles when dealing with a new BF/GF. If her bunny is a dealbreaker for him, he ain't worth the effort to keep him. After that, if she chooses to deal with the underlying issues (if there are any, I'm still not convinced of that) then let her do so.
Kat at November 12, 2010 12:06 PM
I watched this show the other nt, Mike and Molly. They are a newly in love, pudgy couple, trying to get used to each other, and he had a sleep apnea machine. Talk about unsexy! But, she really liked him, so she was committed to working it out.
That's what you do when you really like someone. This guy can't possibly know her well enough (nor can we) to make any judgments about her state of mind purely from this bunny habit. If he's teasing her lightheartedly, it's ok, but if he's really targeting her sensitivity about the bunny, he's a jerk she's better off without.
If he was really just turned off sexually, he'd have left the first time he saw the bunny. The fact he's sticking around, while making her feel obsolete, is a troubling sign.
lovelysoul at November 12, 2010 12:23 PM
[quote]If he was really just turned off sexually, he'd have left the first time he saw the bunny. The fact he's sticking around, while making her feel obsolete, is a troubling sign.[/quote]
Exactly, lovelysoul. You have it pegged.
Kat at November 12, 2010 12:46 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1781130">comment from KatNot "exactly." He probably got a bit attached to her and was dismayed to see the bunny, and is hoping it'll go away.
Amy Alkon at November 12, 2010 12:51 PM
Yeah, but we always feel that way. There are so many habits of our partners we'd wish would go away. If this is really the most unsexy, annoying thing she does, he's got it made. As bad habits go, this is pretty tame.
Think of "How to Lose a Guy in Ten Days". This could be right out of that. If it's not a stuffed bunny, it'll be her hair spray and body lotion crowding his bathroom space...or the pet name she makes up for his wee wee. All the girly stuff we do annoys most guys, but, when they really like us, they don't mind it that much. Same as we put up with the childish behavior they exhibit sometimes.
lovelysoul at November 12, 2010 1:08 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1781139">comment from lovelysoulIf it's not a stuffed bunny, it'll be her hair spray and body lotion crowding his bathroom space
Please. One is a sign that you exist, the other suggests your maturity level is stuck at 6.
Amy Alkon at November 12, 2010 1:27 PM
Well then, maybe she needs a guy that is "stuck at 6" along with her, and not a prick who gives her grief over something that is so obvious (to you) a sign of arrested development, but is really just silly. I guess I should also pack it in, since I like anime, video games, collect dolls (BJD's, not cheap barbies)... Oh wait, no, it's the Hubby that watches anime and plays video games, I just watch and goof around with him while he does. Perhaps it would be better if I were to walk in and say "How old are you again?". Not like he doesn't bust his ass in the AirForce, pay the bills, treat me with respect....
Yep, Stuffed Animals are definitely a sign of immaturity, so that gives her BF the right to talk down to her........
Kat at November 12, 2010 1:51 PM
You want to dance around it, but you are implying in your own way that she 'needs' her bunny because of some traumatic deep-seated problem, or maybe she was abused/neglected/molested as a child, etc.
I would like you to point out exactly where I even implied anything of the sort. I'm not dancing around it because I don't think it is due to something traumatic. I did talk about her needing it, but that could be due to any number of reasons. Maybe it's just habit now and she uses that habit when she's been having a hard time at work or something. I have not implied anything about why she needs the bunny, just that there is a reason. Or was a reason in the past that built up the habit. I'm not sure why you're being so hostile here, Kat.
And I'd like to reiterate that I am fully aware that this is rather inconsequential behavior in the scheme of things. I'm not disputing that at all. But, like I've said previously and no one has said anything about, she made it an issue. She wrote to an advice columnist about it.
Yes, lovelysoul, I know that many women keep and sleep with stuffed animals, and I have not called anyone else out about that. More power to you if you like it. But I still say that the impression I got from the LW is that she needs it, for the simple fact that she made the conscious choice to not have the bunny for a month before introducing him into the bed she's sharing with her boyfriend. That would give anyone pause, right? If Floppy showed up after a month? That tells me that, for whatever reason, she is slightly uncomfortable with the fact that she likes the bunny in her bed. If she wasn't, she wouldn't have made an issue of it. She would have told the guy not to let the doorknob hit him in the ass on his way out.
And, yes, we put up with annoying behaviors from the people we love. But don't we think about that behavior and decide it's not worth it to make it an issue? LW's boyfriend has decided it's an issue. That should be enough to get her to at least look at her motivations for having the bunny in the bed. If she doesn't think it's a problem, then she should tell him so.
Maybe he is just a prick, but I think it's odd for a woman in her mid-thirties to make an issue out of sleeping with a stuffed animal. I'll say it again: if it wasn't a big deal, she wouldn't have made it one.
NumberSix at November 12, 2010 1:58 PM
Please. One is a sign that you exist, the other suggests your maturity level is stuck at 6.
It may "suggest" it, but I simply don't accept that it's a de facto problem or indicative of a need for therapy, whatever. Everyone has their quirks, and keeping a favourite doll or stuffed toy to sleep with ranks pretty low on the annoying scale. It doesn't mean she's immature. She obviously was aware enough to give it some time before introducing bunny to the bed. Ok, I understand your point about widening the dating pool by avoiding behaviour that puts off partners - but that can't go for everything, sooner or later you have to decide how much you're willing to compromise. And I think this is a particularly pathetic thing for a guy to get worked up about, and that he needs to grow some balls and/or self-esteem. I'd probably find it hot, especially if she was willing to wear a schoolgirl dress and...well, I digress.
or the pet name she makes up for his wee wee
I just have to ask lovelysoul, though I shouldn't - what name do you have for your Dearly Beloved's beloved?
Ltw at November 12, 2010 2:06 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1781162">comment from KatYep, Stuffed Animals are definitely a sign of immaturity, so that gives her BF the right to talk down to her........
It seems to creep him out and he's hinting at that, probably because he likes her. He isn't a "prick" for feeling this or expressing this -- he's, I'd guess, trying to give her a hint that this isn't working for him so he doesn't have to dump her.
Amy Alkon at November 12, 2010 2:12 PM
But, like I've said previously and no one has said anything about, she made it an issue. She wrote to an advice columnist about it.
I disagree, NumberSix. He made it an issue by criticising her behaviour, and she wrote to an advice columnist asking whether that was reasonable or whether she should expect a decent partner to accept it. Repeat - he made it an issue. She was happy to have him and Floppy. If she hid it for a bit, well we all do that with new partners - and judging by some of the comments in this thread regarding her maturity and mommy issues (not yours mostly) she had fair reason for that. But isn't that always part of getting to know someone - they slowly let their guard down, admit embarrassing secrets, etc.
Ltw at November 12, 2010 2:12 PM
ha,ha, Ltw. I don't have a pet name for it, nor do I like stuffed animals, but I'm sure there are plenty of other girly things I do that annoys him, but he loves me anyway.
I do agree with ie. This is a problem for LW. She is ashamed of it, or else she would've just been upfront and wouldn't have written to Amy. But my point is that, whatever she does about the bunny habit isn't as important as evaluating this guy as a potential partner, and if he's been critical over something as trivial as this, rather than gently suggesting (or teasing) that it's time to give up Floppy, then he's not good partner material. Anyone who truly cares for her wouldn't give her the impression that he'd leave over this.
lovelysoul at November 12, 2010 2:25 PM
It seems to creep him out and he's hinting at that, probably because he likes her. He isn't a "prick" for feeling this or expressing this
Ah well, we disagree. In my book, if something that small creeps him out, he's not worth having. How is he going to deal with real problems?
Ltw at November 12, 2010 2:35 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1781185">comment from LtwFinding somebody's behavior sexually unappealing isn't a small thing.
Amy Alkon at November 12, 2010 2:44 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1781190">comment from Amy AlkonNor is it a character flaw.
Amy Alkon at November 12, 2010 2:50 PM
"Finding somebody's behavior sexually unappealing isn't a small thing."
Well, then he should leave. God forbid she should have to wear a retainer, or a nursing bra, or have an episiotomy or a C-section scar, or stretchmarks.
These are the real unappealing things to come, and if Floppy makes him unable to find her attractive now, they won't make it through the rest.
lovelysoul at November 12, 2010 3:01 PM
I'd probably find it hot, especially if she was willing to wear a schoolgirl dress and...well, I digress.
*chuckle* LTW, my husband had the same reaction, we are gonna go shopping later tonight ;)
Kat at November 12, 2010 3:12 PM
but that can't go for everything, sooner or later you have to decide how much you're willing to compromise.
You make a good point.
And I take your point about the impetus for LW writing in being boyfriend's comment. The way I'm seeing it, though, is that the others here who sleep with stuffed animals wouldn't have had to write for outside help. They would have either agreed to put the bunny away or told the boyfriend where to stick it. So the reason I'm defining this as a problem is that she thinks it's a problem, where others with the same stuffed animal wouldn't think it was a problem for them. If that makes sense. From my admittedly constructionist perspective, the defining characteristic of a problem between partners is that one or both of them thinks it's a problem. The same issue wouldn't be problematic for you and your cats, Ltw, am I right? You wouldn't need to write to Amy to determine what you should do, you'd resolve the issue one way or the other. This LW is insecure about having her bunny, or else she wouldn't need an outsider to tell her what she should do.
I think this is a particularly pathetic thing for a guy to get worked up about
Again, I'd likely agree if he were the one writing and the girlfriend didn't see anything wrong with her having the bunny. You're right that it's not a de facto problem, but she has made it one.
I'd probably find it hot, especially if she was willing to wear a schoolgirl dress and...
Naughty boy. I knew I liked you.
lovelysoul, I get where you're coming from, but I don't think you can heap all sexually unappealing things into the same pile. Nursing bras and stuffed animals are different for the simple reason that one suggests the user is more childlike. She may not be, but it's more likely than with a nursing bra, or even a retainer, because those are both functional items with specific purposes. You need a retainer to help fix your teeth, you don't need a stuffed bunny for security. That is more childlike, and mature adults tend to sublimate their desire for security into more mature behaviors, even if they stem from the same issue. And scars are permanent (or painful to remove) while sleeping with a stuffed animal need not be.
NumberSix at November 12, 2010 3:16 PM
Well, then he should leave. God forbid she should have to wear a retainer, or a nursing bra, or have an episiotomy or a C-section scar, or stretchmarks.
These are the real unappealing things to come, and if Floppy makes him unable to find her attractive now, they won't make it through the rest.
QFT. This has been my point all along, that He's the one with the issue, she's just asking if it's a valid one or not.
I say not.
Kat at November 12, 2010 3:16 PM
I'm not saying he's a bad person, or has a character flaw. We all rule people out that we're dating because various things about them turn us off. It doesn't have to be justifiable or even make sense. That same thing may be appealing, or at least no big deal, to someone else.
I just don't think LW necessarily needs to change her habit to suit this guy because it seems to me that he's just not that into her anyway.
I mean, I've rejected guys for trivial things that I probably wouldn't have if they really rocked my boat. When you're really into somebody, even their flaws seem kind of cute, especially in the first few months.
I just had dental surgery, and I look anything but appealing right now. My jaw is swollen; I have sutures in my mouth, and I can't brush my teeth on one side. But my fiance stopped by tonight and kissed me on my puffy, chapped lips.
That's the kind of guy LW should find. Not somebody that's going to be turned off by her childhood bunny. He's just not that into her.
lovelysoul at November 12, 2010 4:00 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1781266">comment from lovelysoulAgain, the need to go to sleep with Floppy, as an adult, suggests something psychologically immature about her. It's one thing to play school girl; it's another entirely to have sex with a guy, and then need to roll over and pay attention to bunny.
Amy Alkon at November 12, 2010 4:09 PM
The same issue wouldn't be problematic for you and your cats, Ltw, am I right? ... you'd resolve the issue one way or the other.This LW is insecure about having her bunny, or else she wouldn't need an outsider to tell her what she should do.
Fair enough NumberSix, that's reasonable, and yes it's partially her issue. I just find the idea of a guy who would pick at something that is obviously a problem for her reprehensible. So I assign the majority of the blame to him. It may just be because I'm generally tolerant of others' behaviour as long as they are tolerant of mine. And, yes, tolerant of cats trying to climb into the bed during sex, let alone after. But you are right, it wouldn't take a month to find out whether that was a problem.
it's another entirely to have sex with a guy, and then need to roll over and pay attention to bunny.
You have more information than us Amy, so we're at a disadvantage - but is she rolling over and ignoring him, or just grabbing the bunny with one arm preparatory to cuddling up to bf to sleep? There's a very big difference...if the second creeps him out he's got big problems. The first is problematic I guess. Although it's how a lot of guys react - minus the stuffed toy.
*chuckle* LTW, my husband had the same reaction, we are gonna go shopping later tonight ;)
Good for you - on behalf of your husband Kat, look for one about 2 sizes smaller than you would normally wear - short and tight as you can fit into. And don't forget you've been a very naughty girl :)
Ltw at November 12, 2010 4:39 PM
When I was painting my mom's house this summer, I did so with one of the tenants, the wife, and I noticed that an entire corner room in the basement was taken over by a really big table (think pool table size) and it was covered with all sorts of toy soldiers, small models of war machinery and weapons, etc. It was really noticeable because it took up so much space in the room. There was virtually nothing else in there.
The wife, a 30 year old with two young kids, saw me looking, shook her head slowly and said "I don't get it." Meaning she didn't get why her husband was so into playing with this stuff. But, she was smiling when she said it and also said that when he went to Chicago later that summer to a convention (with other enthusiasts), she was going with him.
You know, a 30 year old guy who plays with toy soldiers could easily be assessed as one immature baby who needs therapy to get over his childish ways. But the reality is the husband is one really neat guy. Loves his wife, loves his kids, takes care of his aging granddad and is someone I really like. More mature than some of my much older friends.
So he plays with toy soldiers, big deal. This woman has a bunny. Ditto.
ie at November 12, 2010 4:55 PM
Good for you - on behalf of your husband Kat, look for one about 2 sizes smaller than you would normally wear - short and tight as you can fit into. And don't forget you've been a very naughty girl :) Hahaha, Ltw, you have no idea! As for the smaller size, hell, I almost have to shop the childrens section already :P
You know, a 30 year old guy who plays with toy soldiers could easily be assessed as one immature baby who needs therapy to get over his childish ways. But the reality is the husband is one really neat guy. Loves his wife, loves his kids, takes care of his aging granddad and is someone I really like. More mature than some of my much older friends.
Ah, a wargamer! I love those guys! I had a spot at the War College a few years ago at Origins (One of those conventions you mention) and got to talk to some of the "generals" afterwards, what a hoot! (being a fairly decent looking red-head didn't hurt, never had to pay for a drink the entire time :)
So, back to the original LW. To Sum Up. She may have "issues" but her BF is the one with the "Problem". Yes?
Does anyone else have that Til Tuesday song "Voices Carry" running thru their head right now?
Kat at November 12, 2010 5:17 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1781309">comment from ieSo he plays with toy soldiers, big deal. This woman has a bunny. Ditto.
The guy has a pastime. The woman NEEDS the bunny. Different.
Amy Alkon at November 12, 2010 5:23 PM
So, back to the original LW. To Sum Up. She may have "issues" but her BF is the one with the "Problem". Yes?
Pretty much sums up my attitude.
The woman NEEDS the bunny.
I still don't see a problem with that if she isn't shutting BF out. If she NEEDS bunny but it's inclusive of BF, that's a quirk and I think he's insensitive to handle it the way he is. If she gives him the cold shoulder straight after sex, well, that's different. Need more information. As I said above.
I've had to deal with a similar issue with girlfriends before - I sleep very badly and have some respiratory issues, I have serious trouble sleeping with my face towards someone and also can't sleep on my back (which would allow the head on the shoulder, arm round the neck option). I still cuddle of course, but when it's sleep time I have to turn my back and lie on my side facing away - admittedly still in contact as much as possible. It's not a health issue per se, it's more psychological than anything else (it triggers nightmares from feelings of suffocation and I don't ever get deep sleep) but basically I can only sleep back to back. And I really need it. And everyone I've spent any time with has understood that without getting turned off or creeped out. If she needs bunny in bed with her that's a lot less significant. If she needs it - who cares? If he's bothered by it - explain it isn't directed at him and ask him to get over it.
Ltw at November 12, 2010 6:27 PM
You make a distinction that we haven't discussed, Ltw. I think you hit on the key part of this: is the bunny-cuddling at the expense of the boyfriend? I still think it needs attention because of the problem he has with it, but the degree probably is determined by whether she's using the bunny instead of the boyfriend. I do think this is a more childlike behavior than your needing to sleep in a certain position, which makes it a bit more troubling. But I wholeheartedly agree that she should explain herself to the boyfriend, which would entail some introspection on her part. If the reason for the bunny is something innocuous (or it's not but she doesn't think it's a problem), it's up to her to at least tell him about it rather than saying "accept me or get out." If she's in a relationship, she owes it to both of them to explain any behavior that he may take issue with, and vice versa. Give him a chance to think on it and make a decision. It's selfish to take that away from someone you're looking to stay with.
You know, after reading Ltw's last post and thinking on it a bit, that's my problem with this whole thing: she's taking the "you must accept me as I am with no explanation or effort on my part" tactic. I think that's a bad idea no matter what the behavior in question is. Maybe he'll still have a problem with the bunny and she should kick him out, but a relationship requires give from both parties rather than decreeing blind acceptance.
NumberSix at November 12, 2010 8:20 PM
I think that some people are projecting here. All we know is that she's having a hard time giving up her bunny and that her boyfriend made that comment.
She's not you, he's not your boyfriend, it's not about you!
I can see where grabbing a stuffed animal after sex might raise some questions. She's a grown woman and the rabbit is nearly as old as she is. It's something you'd notice.
She's the only one who knows whether this is indicative of other issues. Her letter is a little strange because she seems to be asking for help, but then puts off the responsibility on her boyfriend.
Is this something I need to stop doing, or something that somebody who cares about me should just accept?
lola at November 12, 2010 9:43 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1781408">comment from LtwI sleep very badly and have some respiratory issues, I have serious trouble sleeping with my face towards someone and also can't sleep on my back (which would allow the head on the shoulder, arm round the neck option). I still cuddle of course, but when it's sleep time I have to turn my back and lie on my side facing away - admittedly still in contact as much as possible.
Back problems and apparent psychological problems -- two very different things.
Amy Alkon at November 12, 2010 10:15 PM
"I sleep very badly and have some respiratory issues, I have serious trouble sleeping with my face towards someone and also can't sleep on my back (which would allow the head on the shoulder, arm round the neck option). I still cuddle of course, but when it's sleep time I have to turn my back and lie on my side facing away - admittedly still in contact as much as possible."
Holy smokes, I thought there was something wrong with me. I can't sleep with something near my face, someone's breath on me, without a clear area of cool air. And definitely not on my back. The feeling of suffocation can be overwhelming. I have never heard that from anyone else before.
I've been this way for almost fifty years and have managed quite well. Early on with multiple, serial partners and for many years with one. Still, it's nice to know I'm not alone in my oddness.
Perhaps the ability to live with one's own quirks and foibles allows others to accept them. It seems the letter writer doesn't want to live with hers. Her discomfort is the issue to me, not his.
If she deems it an issue, it is an issue. I don't cuddle in my sleep, I touch but don't cuddle. To me it's a non-issue and I imagine I project that feeling. If the letter writer is guiltily grabbing the bunny to sleep, she is projecting that it is an issue to her and therefore, the boyfriend comments on it.
It seems she is not comfortable with her own self. That to me would be the relationship breaker, not a boyfriend's insensitive comment.
Annie at November 13, 2010 4:42 AM
You know, if this was a special pillow she liked to cuddle up to in order to sleep, nobody would think it's a problem. So, she should take bunny, put him in a pillow case with some feathers (he won't smother, promise) and sew it up. That way, she can still snuggle with him without fear of ridicule.
lovelysoul at November 13, 2010 5:09 AM
When we sleep, we're at our most vulnerable. I sleep with the blankets over my head (and it can't be a thin blanket because that just makes me crazy) and I make a little hole for my face so I can breathe. I sleep with a down comforter all year round; a heavy one in the winter and a lighter one in the summer. I keep the AC on to make this habit more bearable in the summer.
I don't remember being afraid of the dark, ever. But I'm guessing that that's where this little quirk of mine is coming from.
I've gone through therapy a couple of times in my life. I've jokingly referred to this habit and it's been summarily dismissed both times. It's a habit, a silly one, but it's not a symptom of a deep underlying psychological disturbance.
I've had boyfriend's watch me do this and, apart from the odd blanket fight, they don't mind. As a matter of fact, they've found it endearing, as I've already mentioned. It seems I'm a driven career oriented woman during the day and a bit of a kid at night. It's fair to say that almost every man I've been with has found this an amusing quirk of mine.
(Except the BF I described a few posts ago. The cold guy who seemed to make me feel I was wrong about things. The one who would have probably made the same kind of comment the LW's BF made.)
I've resolved the problem by owning four duvets--two heavy ones for the winter, two light ones for the summer. I give one to my BF and I have one myself. That's a lot of blanket for one bed, but it makes sleeping together possible. And I have a big bed so the blanket surplus isn't too much of an issue.
No one has ever suggested to me that I seek pyschological help for this and if they did, I wouldn't take them seriously. I would think that they were putting too much weight on this issue or, put another way, that they were magnifying it beyond a reasonable point.
Back to my original point: we are vulnerable when we sleep. The LW is still feeling vulnerable for some reason. The fact that she gave it up for a month and then re-introduced it tells me two things: a) that is perfectly capable of giving it up when she wants to and b) for some reason, with this guy, she needs it again.
She's in her mid-thirties. And I think it's safe to say that she's been doing this all her life. And, what? This is the first guy who's ever noticed? More like he's the first guy it actually bothered and if that's the case, there is probably something a bit anal about the guy. Just like my ex-BF who WAS anal about stuff like this.
The fact that she wrote in says that there is a problem with the bunny and WITH THIS PARTICULAR GUY! It's like my blanket issue. If a man made comments like 'How old are you?', I'd have to wonder if he really cared about me or just cared about having a fuckable body next to him at night. I'd like to think a man would want me for both things and not reject me for a silly vulnerability of mine. But if I did get these kind of comments, I'm not sure I would go into therapy just to make some insensitive jerk happy. Sorry, but that would be a deal-breaker for ME.
ie at November 13, 2010 5:24 AM
I'm just going to rewrite this so that it conforms to what people want her to be saying..
I fear I've already turned off the asshole I'm dating because of a perfectly normal sleeping ritual. Like a lot of other adult women, I sleep with an orthopedic support pillow. I'm in my mid-30s, but I've had it since childhood, and I just find sleeping with it comforting. It's nothing that concerns me, or should cause other women to question their use of support pillows. I don't even know why I'm writing to you.
For the first month of dating this jerk face, I didn't bring it to bed, because I feared the toll his incessant scolding and degradation would have on my self esteem. But now that I'm numb to the pain, I grab for it after we've finished definitely not having sex. He seems rather unimpressed, like my father. The other night, he said something like "Now, how old are you again?" Is this something I need to stop doing, or something that somebody who cares about me should just accept?
.. there we go.
Stompy at November 13, 2010 6:52 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1781563">comment from StompyAgain, orthopedic support pillow suggests you have back problems, not that you never quite got over your separation from Mommy.
Amy Alkon at November 13, 2010 7:06 AM
yes I know, but everyone here is deliberately pretending that it's just a support pillow in order to claim that there's nothing odd about her behavior. I never knew that so many adult women slept with their childhood toys.
Rosa at November 13, 2010 10:57 AM
I never knew that so many adult women slept with their childhood toys.
I never said I slept with Cthulhu, I just said that if my Hubby were to give me grief over it *if* I did, he would be wrong.
Seems to me that people are still missing the the obvious "She may have "issues", but her BF is the one with the "PROBLEM"" point.
Amy says she has Mommy issues. Amy has more info than we do, so maybe LW does. And maybe she has dealt with those issues in the most comforting, non-destructive way possible by hanging on to Fluffy. And MAYBE she could have turned to much darker and more destructive ways to deal, but didn't.
Why fix what ain't really broken? She's happy with her bunny, he ain't, either he can deal with it gracefully or he can be a prick about it. He chose prick, and now people are making it her fault.(by "deal with it", I mean accept, make a comment in a non-prickish manner, or otherwise deal in a good way)
Kat at November 13, 2010 12:39 PM
I remember being in my 30s and feeling very vulnerable around men. It seemed to me that a lot of them made the assumption that I was looking to get married--I suppose because a lot of women in their 30s are--and I went through a whole slew of guys and had to depend on my mad money quite steadily. For some reason, the scale felt tipped in favour of men (for me anyway), during that decade of my life. I've heard other women say the same.
I agree it's the LW's problem, but I think it's equally fair to say that if her BF hadn't said anything, she wouldn't have written in, right? So really, his comment is what got her here.
She just sounds like she's insecure with this guy and she's trying to find out where to draw the line. And, unfortunately, like a lot of women out there, she's wondering whether "she" should be the one to change her behaviour, not her boyfriend. There's something sad about this. It's like hearing a thin-enough woman talking about lsoing weight. Voluntary enslavement.
iea at November 13, 2010 3:28 PM
Back problems and apparent psychological problems -- two very different things.
*Sigh*, I did say it was psychological not physical. I don't have a back problem. I did have problems with hay fever leading to asthma which is one of the reasons I wouldn't sleep on my back (mucus drains into your lungs while you're asleep leading to breathing problems), but with treatment that's mostly gone now. So it's purely psychological. Annie said it best
I can't sleep with something near my face, someone's breath on me, without a clear area of cool air. And definitely not on my back. The feeling of suffocation can be overwhelming. I have never heard that from anyone else before.
The point being it can be very off-putting for a partner if you refuse to snuggle while sleeping, insist on facing away, not want them to put their arm around you, etc, unless you explain you aren't rejecting them and that you need a specific routine to sleep. My partners have been very understanding about it fortunately. I don't see the difference in this situation, and I still say the guy is being incredibly insensitive. I just don't see needing a stuffed toy as that serious an issue unless it's accompanied by other signs. Fine, it's an issue, but pretty minor. I think reading mommy separation anxiety into it is a big call without some more evidence.
Kat and ie - agree with both of you completely.
Why fix what ain't really broken?
100% with you on that Kat. Sure, maybe there's an issue there. But if all it takes to hold it bay is a bunny, why go through the hell of therapy to fix it? LW should just get on with her life and not worry. And next time introduce bunny on the first night in bed :)
Ltw at November 13, 2010 5:00 PM
And, unfortunately, like a lot of women out there, she's wondering whether "she" should be the one to change her behaviour, not her boyfriend.
That's not precisely true. Her question is should she change her behavior, or should her boyfriend accept this behavior? If I were to hazard a guess about which way she'd like it to turn out, I'd point firmly in the direction of boyfriend accepting the bunny as is or getting his ass kicked out. If she was just about wanting to change her behavior to please a man, she wouldn't have added the "is this...something that somebody who cares about me should just accept?" part.
I'm not saying she's not insecure about this behavior, because I think that's why she wrote in instead of just telling the BF to fuck off, but I do think in her mind the ideal resolution would be for Amy to tell her that he has to accept that she comes with Floppy in the bed. And I'm also not saying that she's thinking this in any kind of sinister way, or even that she's conscious of it, but I don't think she's the change-anything-he-asks-you-to-so-he'll-stick-around type. She'd like him to just leave it alone.
NumberSix at November 13, 2010 8:16 PM
#6, if she just wants him to accept it, then why write in and ask for advice? She's insecure and in my experience, most insecure women will change to keep a man.
I think Thag said it early in this thread, it's perhaps a case of the two of them not knowing each other well enough to be sleeping together, although, surprisingly, the LW thought they did. That's why she brought the bunny out--she thought they were comfortable with one another. Like sex = acceptance, which is a common mistake that women make.
That's a mistake I also made in my 30s a few times. I thought I was intimate with someone, could let down my guard, and then was unpleasantly surprised when something showed me that things were otherwise.
And that's why her BF's comment about "how old are you?" probably hurt her. If they were genuinely more comfortable with each other it probably would have sounded like a joke. As it is, it didn't, and now she's writing in asking if he should accept it or she should change.
I'm not a betting woman, but given Amy's advice, and the fact that the LW has already slept with the guy, my money is on this woman changing to suit him. I find that women, particularly in their 30s, seem to lose power in a relationship once they've slept with a guy.
Don't ask me why, but I know that in my 40s and now 50s, I stopped feeling that way. But then again, I became more choosy about who I jumped into bed with. I wait and see what kind of character a man has and that waiting, I know for certain, has spared me some grief.
The fact that LW's probably quite willing to change is sad, like I said. It's not a drinking or drug or spending or gambling or sexual addiction habit. It's a stuffed toy.
I just think that between two mature adults a certain amount of accommodation is what can make the difference between a happy and miserable relationship. I know from experience that when I'm the one doing most of the accommodating, I'm miserable (although now I know to do something about it).
And of course, a lot of women hearing their biological clock ticking will hang on to a miserable relationship regardless because they are afraid of being alone or being childless, etc. I think the LW is headed in the same direction.
ie at November 14, 2010 4:17 AM
This thread is becoming quite humorous. Can't believe how exhaustively we've analyzed this girl's bunny. I bet LW didn't bargain for this. Can we get a photo of Floppy? That might inspire 100 more comments.
No offense, ie, but I think you're taking it a bit far. We can't conclude she's in an abusive or controlling relationship, though she does seem insecure.
I don't think she's in a relationship at all. This is a new guy, and he seems "unimpressed". Is it only about the bunny? Probably not. If he's seeming unimpressed this early, he's just generally not that crazy about her....which is fine. That's what people do. They date, sleep together, then decide, "ah, she/he's not so great" and leave.
She senses he's leaving, and, like all us girls do, she's analyzing why. There must be something MORE than the obvious - he's just not into you.
She's trying to lay it all on Floppy, let him take the blame. It's easier to believe Floppy ran him off than accept that he was never really there to begin with.
lovelysoul at November 14, 2010 6:32 AM
@lovelysoul, I think everyone's taking it too far. I don't think concluding that she has mommy issues is fair either, so I'm positing an alternative to that.
Besides as some other people have pointed out, he sounds rude and insensitive.
Your assumption that he's on his way out and she's trying to hang on to him by(writing to find out what is wrong), is projection too. You're just as guilty as the rest of us, I'm afraid.
She sounds like she's in a relationship with him--albeit at the beginning stages--or did I miss something?
ie at November 14, 2010 8:35 AM
You're probably right. But I don't know if he's being rude and insensitive either. She just says he "seems unimpressed, to say the least." I don't think this is that big a deal, but I also don't see it as something anyone would be impressed by...not like a degree from Yale. He's not going to go tell his buddies, "hey, my girl sleeps with a rabbit!" (unless it's the vibrating kind).
I don't know. My sense is that he's not a bad guy, but he's just not crazy about her either. When you don't really feel it for someone, you're a lot less tactful in the way you say things, and you tend to pick at trivial issues that you likely wouldn't if you were madly in love. She's picking up on this and worrying he's going to leave, which is really why she's writing.
lovelysoul at November 14, 2010 8:58 AM
Well, if she's hanging on to this relationship, it's not a stretch to imagine her doing that with other men. And I think you're right about the guy not being that into her because, like I said, there's a lack of accommodation on his part.
I'm just commenting on a trend I saw while I was in my 30s: Women trying to figure how to pretzel themselves so they could hang on to a man. And I remember the struggle I had with that issue too.
ie at November 14, 2010 9:06 AM
I hear you, ie. Me too. She's in her mid-30s, so it's time for her to decide what SHE finds acceptable, and not try to be so pleasing. If he leaves her solely over this, she's better off. In fact, maybe all women should do something "unappealing" like this during the courtship phase as a test. We tend to try to be what the guy wants rather than ourselves.
lovelysoul at November 14, 2010 9:31 AM
I understand Amy's point--if it's a major turn-off for this guy to find out a month into the relationship that this girl has an attachment to the stuffed animal, then there's nothing wrong with him for feeling that way.
But nothing gives him the right to make a cutting remark about it. If he wants to clue her in that it is going to be a deal breaker and/or turn off for him, then be honest rather than make a disparaging remark, which is belittling to her.
Too many times people hide their truth in "joking" comments because they are not skilled enough communicators to speak honestly about what is important to them.
Peggy C at November 14, 2010 10:06 AM
I think that you ladies have been played. It seems like the LW has set up this scenario specifically to distract attention from the relevant question of whether she should investigate the motive for her need to sleep with a childhood toy. One that she identifies as carrying that significance. The boyfriend, whom she's only been seeing for a little over a month, is just a proxy for all of you to fixate on. She's constructed this whole thing to cast herself as a victim, knowing that other women will look on her more sympathetically if there's an abusive man in the picture. And that's just what happened. Amy saw through this, but most of the women here didn't. So now she can comfort herself that her infantilism isn't a concern, and any man who says otherwise is abusive and controlling.
Have any of you considered what's going to happen when she meets a man who likes seeing her as a little girl? Does that seem healthy? Would you want to date that guy if you had an adolescent daughter?
This goes to IE's question of why some women in their 30's have trouble with men, and feel at such a disadvantage. I'd submit that if you feel like you're 'losing power' in relationships, it's because you're trying to play a game that you're no longer good at. Behavior that's tolerable, or even cute, in a 20 something, can be really off putting in a woman over thirty. And to be honest, the primary reason that guys put up with bad behavior in the first place is for sex, and that we're too immature ourselves to see it for what it is.
Old Fartski at November 14, 2010 10:09 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1782136">comment from Old FartskiThanks, and right on, Old Fartski, and love the name!
Amy Alkon at November 14, 2010 10:54 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1782137">comment from Peggy CBut nothing gives him the right to make a cutting remark about it.
Oh, please. A "cutting remark" is "Is there something psychologically wrong with you, because you don't seem to have made the normal psychological transitions you were supposed to at 6."
And she hasn't, and if that were me, and a guy rolled over after sex and picked up Flopsy, Mopsy or whatever, I would have been out of there like the house was on fire. How's that for cutting (and running)?
Amy Alkon at November 14, 2010 10:57 AM
"Is there something psychologically wrong with you, because you don't seem to have made the normal psychological transitions you were supposed to at 6."
And she hasn't
See, you keep saying this Amy, and I keep asking whether her bunny attachment is total emotional disconnection from the boyfriend or just settling herself in to sleep. And I haven't got an answer. Does it manifest in other areas of her life? Does she have other problems that are related to this? In the absence of any further information I stand by my first comment, right at the top of this very long thread. Ok, most people give up stuffed toys in their childhood. She hasn't. How is this a big deal? Unless she's curled up in the foetal position rocking from side to side hugging the bunny and whimpering to herself, who gives a damn?
This thread is becoming quite humorous. Can't believe how exhaustively we've analyzed this girl's bunny.
You beat me to it lovelysoul :) I was thinking yesterday how hilarious the discussion was getting.
Ltw at November 14, 2010 11:28 AM
So now she can comfort herself that her infantilism isn't a concern, and any man who says otherwise is abusive and controlling.
Have any of you considered what's going to happen when she meets a man who likes seeing her as a little girl? Does that seem healthy? Would you want to date that guy if you had an adolescent daughter?
Old Fartski, I shouldn't even bother. But talk about over-analysing. You got all that from a toy? Maybe Amy has more info she can't share with us, but you certainly don't. I'm on record earlier in this thread as having a schoolgirl uniform fetish (it's my only one, and only gets indulged rarely). Does that make me a potential child abuser? I hope you can work out that the answer is no, that the attraction is seeing a woman dressed up as a girl - it's the shock value I suppose that makes it hot. But according to you, of course, any guy who is tolerant of her attachment to a stuffed toy is a danger to her hypothetical adolescent daughter. I think that's going way too far.
Ltw at November 14, 2010 11:44 AM
@oldfartski: How many people write into an advice column who DON'T see themselves as some sort of victim? Even if they're a victim of their own bad behaviours?
That's what advice columns are for. People don't write in and say things like "Hey, I want to become an axe murderer, how do I start?"
ie at November 14, 2010 1:27 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1782173">comment from ieActually, you'd be surprised.
Amy Alkon at November 14, 2010 1:35 PM
No nothing would surprise me. But my question is, are those letters the ones you publish?
ie at November 14, 2010 1:54 PM
Old Fartski, I shouldn't even bother. But talk about over-analysing. You got all that from a toy?
Hey sometimes a cigar really is a smoking penis!
Old Fartski at November 14, 2010 2:09 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1782188">comment from Old FartskiHey sometimes a cigar really is a smoking penis!
If you pet the latter just right, sometimes you can see plumes of smoke rising.
Amy Alkon at November 14, 2010 2:13 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1782193">comment from ieare those letters the ones you publish?
I publish the ones I can give interesting answers to -- generally ones many people will find personally relevant or at least interesting. Also, if you were sexually abused as a child, I'll answer you personally, but I probably won't put your letter in the paper. A little hard to make jokes about that.
I do have a different take on childhood trauma than many (vis a vis the notion that it dooms you to a certain adulthood). It's influenced by the thinking of both the late Albert Ellis and Martin Seligman, who writes about his own experience with sexual abuse (a newsstand guy fondled him) and the fact that he thinks it didn't have longterm serious impact on him because his parents didn't make a big deal about it, and never spoke of it, really. He details it in this book: What You Can Change and What You Can't -- recommended read on a lot of issues, actually.
Amy Alkon at November 14, 2010 2:39 PM
Amy and Old Fartski - thanks for tacitly conceding my point by completely failing to address the substance of my comments. Much appreciated :)
Ltw at November 14, 2010 4:05 PM
IE I don't know whether the scale is ever tipped in our favor. But it does level out. Because the dating scales dramatically favor young women. Women in their thirties just face less favorable conditions.
I date women that age, but have never had the sense that I have more 'power' or some advantage over them. Perhaps this was coming from the guys you were dating?
What I've seen some women have to confront is that they don't get the sort of universal attention from men that they used to, and this makes them feel unattractive. My sister ran into this once she got into her early thirties. She was freaked out by the fact that she was getting approached by men that she considered much older, but not as many guys her age. The older guys were actually a better option, because the ones her age were typically losers. This was the period that she dated a string of assholes, one of which tried to steal my motorcycle.
Jack at November 14, 2010 5:04 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1782248">comment from LtwLtw, I've said it here in various ways, over and over and over, and you're still not getting it, so it didn't seem worth repeating. I'll say it again in a slightly different way: DRESSING UP IN SCHOOLGIRL CLOTHES BECAUSE YOU FIND IT A TURN ON IS DIFFERENT FROM NEEDING TO SLEEP WITH A STUFFED ANIMAL, WHICH LIKELY STEMS FROM NOT PROPERLY SEPARATING FROM YOUR MOMMY.
One is a preference; the other is likely a sign of a psychological problem.
It's the difference between drug use and drug abuse. There are people who can use heroin recreationally -- take it one weekend and not take it again for six months -- and then there are people who must get high on heroin, even if it causes them to lose their job, their teeth, their home, and everything they care about.
Amy Alkon at November 14, 2010 5:13 PM
Yes Amy, I understood what you were saying. But it's always just a statement with no evidence to back it up, and you haven't answered most of my questions to try to understand the situation better. I don't like received wisdom. You have limits as to what you can pass on, I get that. I just wondered are there other issues, is it affecting her life in some other way, is it causing problems? That's what I was asking. I don't disagree it's unusual - but *if* there are no other effects, it seems harmless and not worth fixing. Happy to drop it.
Ltw at November 14, 2010 5:41 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1782264">comment from LtwNo evidence to back it up? When you need to sleep with a bunny...so badly that you have to bring it out after sex, and never mind chancing that you'll lose a guy you like...that's evidence of a problem.
Again, using drugs is only a problem if you can't stop, if it makes you lose things you care about -- people in your life, your job, etc.
This woman has a compulsion, not just a preference. I'm sorry that you, for some reason, seem utterly incapable of understanding the difference, but I've explained this simply over and over and over again.
You can make a conscious choice to do something or be a certain way: For example, I don't want children and don't believe in living together. I also had certain requirements for men, like that they be highly ethical, rational, curious, have a job where they think for a living, and over 6'2." This meant I had a much smaller pool of men available to me, but I articulated the consequences to myself and understood and accepted them.
Amy Alkon at November 14, 2010 6:06 PM
Bunny needs to be retired to a shelf so she can snuggle with the man in her bed.
LauraGr at November 14, 2010 7:31 PM
This has to go down as one of the all-time memorable columns ever. Much ado about Bunny!
Rozita Tee at November 15, 2010 5:17 AM
I hate to add to this enormous thread when it seems to be winding down, but...
I agree completely with Amy. That the LW says she "can't seem to give up" this ritual, "grabs for" the bunny after "intimate stuff," and finds it "comforting" rather than just "comfortABLE" are all red flags to me. I was surprised by how many people disagree and how vehemently they do so. Frankly, I'm stunned by the number of women that sleep with stuffed animals and how... passionate some of them are about it. They seem to feel that if the LW has a problem, then they automatically do too, and since they don't think they have problems, then the LW must not either. However, as has already been said: the LW isn't you. Maybe you don't have a problem, but she seems to. Don't take it out on the LW's boyfriend, who in my opinion had every right to feel hoodwinked. If I had been in a relationship with a guy for a month, and then one night after sex he broke out a "My Buddy" doll or a G.I. Joe to snuggle with, I'd feel like someone pulled a rug out from under me. (And it's not okay just because she's a she. Can we all say "infantilization of women?")
(For the record, I'm a woman slightly under 30.)
mizireni at November 15, 2010 7:41 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1782560">comment from mizireniEXACTLY!
Amy Alkon at November 15, 2010 7:43 AM
@Jack. I said I felt vulnerable in my 30s. Men who I dated seemed to automatically assume I was in it for the long haul. I like the idea of long term committment, but I don't believe in marriage and didn't want kids. It didn't matter to these men. They saw a woman in their 30s, made assumptions and acted on them.
I can't tell you how many men did this because I lost count. One phrase that I remember using a lot is: these men aren't even seeing ME, they're seeing some symbolic representation of who they "think" I am.
It got frustrating and there were times I simply walked out in the middle of dates because of it. Why? What better way to get a message across to a man who either isn't hearing or believing you?
I had a way easier time in my 40s and now 50s. I get more attention and meet more men who are on the same page. A lot more men are available now because they're on the 1st or 2nd divorce.
"Can we all say the infantilization of women?"
Sure. As soon as the scolding stops, mom.
ie at November 15, 2010 9:27 AM
I do feel that we need to know more about bunny before jumping to conclusions..If bunny is about 5' high and weights in at 4 stone I could see it being a real problem.
I would be worried if my partner needed a comforter after sex as it shows a feeling of vulnerability in my presence. I thought sexual partners were supposed to feel re-assured by sex and protected by by presence - not vulnerable afterward.
Mind you all this talk of smoking penises suggests that you chaps really aren't using enough lubricant...........
Mr H at November 15, 2010 3:51 PM
You know what I find so funny? That it's somehow 'adult' to drink, smoke, party, sleep around, etc., and all the people who do it are completely normal, but someone who likes a stuffed animal has a problem. How screwed up is that. Yeah, I'd take a guy who likes a stuffed animal over a partier any day. As an added bonus, a guy who is fine with liking a stuffed animal is not so insecure and conformist as to not feel he is a man because he likes one. Oh, and by the way, just because someone doesn't want to give up a stuffed animal doesn't mean they need it. Maybe they just like it and are not willing to give it up, especially when the reason for it is to conform to some ridiculous standard of being an 'adult'. I run a household, make my own money, and support others. That's what makes me an adult. I found the people who base it on stuffed animals or anything else like that pretty funny and insecure.
JP at November 15, 2010 9:56 PM
JP, maybe you want to scroll up and actually read the comments to see what this argument is really about.
NumberSix at November 15, 2010 11:11 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1782893">comment from JPbut someone who likes a stuffed animal has a problem.
Someone who has such a compulsion to sleep with a stuffed animal that she will risk losing a guy she likes over it has a problem.
I just had a glass of wine and then another half glass a little later. I enjoyed the wine, but I could have had no wine and been just fine. A person who has a drinking problem can't go without the wine -- and drinks it to their detriment...even if it means they'll feel sick in the morning and maybe lose their job and eventually have their partner ditch them.
Get the difference?
"Yeah, I'd take a guy who likes a stuffed animal over a partier any day."
Um, it's not an either/or situation.
And yes, there are standards for being an adult -- having successfully separated from Mommy would be one of them. If your comment reflects what I think it does -- that you, too, feel so compelled to sleep with Floppy that you will do it even if it means turning off a man you want -- I suggest you seek out a good therapist.
Amy Alkon at November 15, 2010 11:57 PM
In all fairness Amy, the idea of her having "addiction" doesn't come across very clearly--either in her letter or your response-- which is probably why this thread has become as long as it has. I mean, she did put the bear away for a month, no?
Comparing her need for her stuffed toy to a drinking problem would have been a great way of clarifying the gravity of the problem. In other words, it would have made clear to her and to us that this WAS a serious problem.
(Even though I still have uber-serious doubts about comparing those two things...is her stuffed bear ruining her life or has it just pissed off one guy? Is her job in jeopardy because she's busy thinking about her next bear fix? Is she driving with the bear in her car? Are the police stopping her and having her bear-alcohol level tested?)
I've re-read your response; other than suggesting a "look-see" by a therapist, you don't respond to her as if this is a serious addiction.
Be fair to the respondents on this thread and get that kind of information out right from the start. You answered in a lighthearted way and the rest is history, right?
ie at November 16, 2010 3:58 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1782982">comment from ieIn all fairness Amy, the idea of her having "addiction" doesn't come across very clearly--either in her letter or your response-- which is probably why this thread has become as long as it has. I mean, she did put the bear away for a month, no?
She put the bear away because she understands that it will likely be a turn-off to a man, and then finds a man she likes, and then is so compelled to sleep with Floppy that she risks the relationship.
People don't understand, for example, the difference between drug use and drug abuse, and between a mere preference and a compulsion. I've explained it a number of times above.
The example you give above and others do comparing this with drunk driving or men who party all the time are ridiculous.
Again, the woman has a compulsion, not a mere preference, and it's one that gets in the way of her getting what she wants. Some addicts have drinking or drug problems; this one happens to have a stuffed animal addiction.
Amy Alkon at November 16, 2010 6:25 AM
Be fair to the respondents on this thread and get that kind of information out right from the start.
come on IE, it's pretty obvious that certain people were offended by the insinuation that there's anything strange about her behavior and deliberately attempted to obfuscate the issue. They tried to make it about everything BUT what it's about. This whole thread was like a group exercise in DENIAL.
I'm almost 110% sure that if Amy had switched the gender, these same people would have been jumping all over the LW.
rosa at November 16, 2010 6:35 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1782989">comment from rosaThis whole thread was like a group exercise in DENIAL. I'm almost 110% sure that if Amy had switched the gender, these same people would have been jumping all over the LW.
Thanks, rosa -- absolutely.
Amy Alkon at November 16, 2010 6:38 AM
What I feel many people don't understand is it's not an either or. I am not sure about the poster (even though it definitely didn't come across as a compulsion), but I don't have a compulsion. I can and do fall asleep without anything in my bed for months, years at a time. And sometimes, if I feel like cuddling a stuffed animal I will, or if I get a cute one and I want to sleep with it, I will too. If my dog slept with me and chewed on the stuffed animal and tried to eat it (or would be uncomfortable in some other way), I would have no problem putting it away. If a friend needed to stay over, and we had to share a bed, I would have no problem moving it. HOWEVER, I would never, ever put it away for a guy, not because it's a compulsion, but because any guy that has a problem with something like this (something that doesn't hurt anyone and just doesn't fit into some stereotype) is not worth my time. If the poster has a problem, she should fix it for herself. As for the guy, he is not worth her time either way, and she should definitely not be encouraged to change for him.
P.S. Generally, people with a compulsion are not able to just break it for a month. I think that's the difference between a compulsion and just really liking something.
JP at November 16, 2010 6:56 AM
I looked up stuffed animal addiction, and couldn't find much, beyond people who obsessively collect them.
I think it's important to distinguish between addiction and habit. An addiction is something one really can't stop, even knowing how it makes them look or negatively impacts their lives. A habit is something one can stop but may prefer not to.
This is kind of borderline, but I suspect it's a habit. After all, she put bunny on a shelf for a month, so she can sleep without him.
I also don't think that this is necessarily a sign of an unhealthy attachment to her parents. It's a sleeping ritual, something she's used to. If it were a pillow she liked to cling to, nobody would suggest therapy. It's just the fact that this particular item is associated with childhood that makes it less acceptable to some.
It would be nice to hear more from LW. Has she really been dumped by other guys because of this? How much has it really negatively affected her life?
My take is that it's a habit she CAN give up, but she's hoping she won't need to because she doesn't see that much harm in it. She's hoping to find a guy who will accept this about her rather than changing it to suit him...and that IS a possibility, though it makes things harder.
But, just as you, Amy, decided you wanted a guy who would accept no children, no living together, have an intellectual job, and be over 6'2" (a pretty tall order), she could hold out for a guy who finds Floppy adorable.
As long as she accepts the limitations of that, there's no problem, but, to give herself the broadest choice of partners, it's probably best to retire Floppy.
lovelysoul at November 16, 2010 7:02 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1783028">comment from lovelysoulBut, just as you, Amy, decided you wanted a guy who would accept no children, no living together, have an intellectual job, and be over 6'2" (a pretty tall order), she could hold out for a guy who finds Floppy adorable.
If you are going to cut down on your options -- and maybe even turn off a guy you really like -- you need to be clear that you're prioritizing sleeping with your bunny over having a boyfriend, and accept the consequences.
Amy Alkon at November 16, 2010 7:18 AM
@Rosa, Oh come on! You're overstating the case, especially for those of us who posted early in this thread. We merely disagreed. I even made a joke about the bunny perhaps having magic powers that could keep the LW from getting pregnant. Or have you even been following the posts? Nice of you to come in at the 11th hour pass judgement on all of us losers. Thanks!
I think most of us who voted against the bunny being a symbol of an underlying pathology are also people who have given male LWs breaks as well. So throwing out that "oh change the gender and see what happens" red herring makes about as much sense as giving good old teddy bear a breathalizer in the event the LW gets "caught" with him in her car!
(Sorry, I've got to take a belly-laugh break here!)
Follow MY posts as a group and just see how anti-male I am. For example, I agreed with the LW who did't like Amy's references to "getting a few drinks" into a girl and I was only one of a handful of people who did.
It's the same with Ltw and Lovelysoul. We've all just disagreed and I think amicably. (Hope that's okay Ltw and Lovelysoul.)
Now I'm wondering, though. Does the LW take teddy to work and hide him in her desk drawer? Maybe takes him to the bathroom on her breaks and sneaks a secret cuddle?
Perhaps we should be encouraging her to start a 12 step group called Teddy's Anonymous?
ie at November 16, 2010 7:24 AM
Fact is, it would be different if the LW was male...because men and women are different, and their partners expect different things. Women expect men to be strong, brave, and protective. Sleeping with bunny just wouldn't portray that. But, like it or not, men expect women to be softer and more vulnerable, so I honestly think some men (not all) wouldn't have a problem with Floppy.
"If you are going to cut down on your options -- and maybe even turn off a guy you really like -- you need to be clear that you're prioritizing sleeping with your bunny over having a boyfriend, and accept the consequences."
I admit that sounds pretty pathetic, but I've known people who dumped really nice partners because he/she didn't share some critical hobby of theirs, like golf, or had some (what I considered) trivial habit.
LW needs to ask herself how important Floppy really is and go from there. But also, she should ask herself if she really likes this guy, or is she more concerned with him liking her.
Maybe her problem isn't so much about Floppy but the fact that she tries to please whoever she's with, rather than being herself. Maybe guys aren't leaving because of Floppy but because she doesn't seem to have her own identity.
lovelysoul at November 16, 2010 8:05 AM
Something to consider is that the LW may have gotten this reaction from several men, and the BF is just a composite, or the example she'd chosen to use. Because that's the way her letter to Amy reads. The language is detached and non-specific. You'll notice that she doesn't acknowledge any history with this issue, regarding other men. But it's not likely that this is the first man who's commented on her sleeping with a children's toy.
Like the gender reversal, I think that it would be helpful to consider her situation without the boyfriend involved. It seems like his presence in this scenario is confusing the question. I don't think that it's about him.
The Obvious at November 16, 2010 8:42 AM
It's the same with Ltw and Lovelysoul. We've all just disagreed and I think amicably. (Hope that's okay Ltw and Lovelysoul.)
Thanks ie. Yes.
Ltw at November 16, 2010 11:42 AM
and be over 6'2" (a pretty tall order)
Was that an intended pun lovelysoul? I hope so
Ltw at November 16, 2010 11:45 AM
Thread was too long for me to read all of it right now, but after about the first 30 responses, I started to wonder - has anyone else thought to suggest that she try to convert from hugging Floppy to hugging his arm to her instead?
WayneB at November 18, 2010 9:15 AM
chuckles.... i'm an athletic 50 year old man and i cuddle a stuffed moose at night... except when I'm with my girlfriend, and then the moose takes a dive off the edge of the bed and I cuddle my girl.
my girl thinks the stuffed animal thing is adorable
nothing wrong with stuffed animals, but one must have one's priorities
cat at November 23, 2010 1:25 PM
Floppy bunnies don't sweat, snore, jerk around the bed, or fart. I can appreciate this because for some reason I really dislike cuddling with a live person in bed. My husband, bless his heart, would literally chase me out of bed trying to hug and cuddle with me in his sleep. I would be so close to the edge and he would still be trying to glom on to me and it prevents me from sleeping. I never got a good nights sleep until he started feeling shoulder pain (water bed is too soft) and needed a mattress that is much firmer. I can't sleep on a hard mattress so it's actually seperate beds now. I can finally sleep!
I have a pillow and some nights I hug it and sleep all wrapped around it. In fact they actually sell "huggable" pillows. The fact hers is shaped like a bunny is neither here nor there. If she feels uncomfortable cuddling her bunny with him meybe she should try a small pillow instead and see if that works for her.
Leave off, if she likes cuddling something plushy and inanimate that doesn't snore, fart or sweat, let her have at it!
Tori at November 24, 2010 1:29 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/when-plush-come.html#comment-1788333">comment from ToriLeave off, if she likes cuddling something plushy and inanimate that doesn't snore, fart or sweat, let her have at it!
We're not talking about storm troopers yanking her out of bed, but whether she's going to lose a guy she seems to like.
Amy Alkon at November 24, 2010 1:41 PM
Bra artikel. Detta är mitt första besök på din blogg. Tack för utstationering en mycket bra artikel"
wolsey strumpor at June 2, 2011 2:19 AM
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