Love Has Come To Sty
My girlfriend's wonderful, but her house is one big clutterfest, with books, papers, old bills, and Post-its everywhere. I find myself unable to relax there, so we spend all our time at my place. She knows she's messy and jokes about it, so there's no awkwardness there, but can it work in the long run between two people with such varying standards of neatness?
--Type A-Minus
There are people who march out into the world looking completely put-together, and then you open their front door and see that the only clutter-busting tip you could possibly give them is "Strike a match and run." If you don't look down on Sloppy Susan or maintain illusions that she'll change, this could work -- providing Good Housekeeping rules remain in effect: You keep your house and she keeps hers and visits yours. One major consideration is whether you'll eventually want kids. In sharing a home, you can do your best to bridge the tidiness gap -- hire a housekeeper and give your love a room of her own that she's free to decorate feng-shovel-style. Ultimately, you may need to be prepared for that day when you can't be sure whether your children have been kidnapped or are just lost in the debris pile in the den.
I'd go the housekeeper/weekly cleaner route. I'm middle of the road tidy. I do some cleaning everyday, follow the cardinal rule about always going to bed with a clean kitchen, but I still wouldn't try eating off my floor.
I think a lot of this "a clean house = a clear mind" new-agey stuff I hear occasionally is just another reason to be paranoid, and I save my paranoia for the drive into work each day--I figure putting it towards my survival on the road is a better investment.
And being with a neatfreak can be hard on the non-neatfreak partner too. I've lived with a couple of neatniks and the smugness--a ha! I'm cleaner than you are, so I'm must be better--can be really demoralizing. I actually kicked a roommate out once because she just gave me that smug look just one too many times. One person's clean is just another's OCD.
I dunno. Give me a beautiful winter's day (we've had a lot up here lately) and me, my van and my X-country skis are headin' out to revel in it.
Dustbunnies be damned.
ie at January 25, 2011 3:58 PM
That answer is no.
It's one thing for a messy guy to get together with a tidy girl, because his messiness can typically be isolated to the man spaces. A man can be 'trained' to keep the mess out of the common spaces. But with a messy woman, there's no compromise because her mess is going to be everywhere. So unless you want to become a 24/7 housekeeper, move on.
linda at January 25, 2011 4:33 PM
Well, there's messy and then there's the inside of a garbage truck. I will admit to not being an ace housekeeper, but the one thing I've always done is insist on keeping the kitchen clean. From having lived in Florida, I can't stand the sight of a dirty kitchen because I know what happens next.
So the times in my life that I caught myself letting the kitchen go, that was my clue to myself that something was wrong. The LW's GF's situation sounds like it may be bordering on that.
Cousin Dave at January 25, 2011 5:04 PM
I grew up in a very messy house and I hated it. As an adult I do my best to keep my home neat and tidy. I do pretty well but I know there are areas that I don't even notice (due to my upbringing) that a neat freak would flip out over. It may be helpful to mention one or two things that are particularly frustrating to you. I know I have made more of an effort when something is said (kindly.) Do not, however, expect a complete turnaround. I am someone who hates a messy home and has a desire to change my habits and I still struggle. Someone who doesn't see a problem with a mess won't change much.
Katebo at January 25, 2011 7:59 PM
I live with my boyfriend, who is very messy. I love him, but well, when he was living alone, "one big clutterfest" was putting it nicely.
I, meanwhile, clean obsessively. Scrubbing the carpet is something that leaves me feeling triumphant, and a sparkling clean tub is a high like no other.
When I moved in, I spent a solid week cleaning, rearranging, building shelves, and scrubbing until I collapsed.
So, how do we manage to live together? Happily? Well, I recognize that extreme cleanliness is MY issue. He would be happy with cleanliness, happy with messiness (as long as he has room to play video games). So, if I want something cleaned, I do it.
But I do NOT clean up HIS messes. That's a mom's job, not a girlfriend's. If his messes start to affect my life, I communicate CLEARLY and KINDLY what needs to be done to make me happy. "Hey, clean up your shit," isn't acceptable. Instead, I will kiss him and say, "Hey sweetie? I need to vacuum in here, but there's a pile of your clothes on the floor. Can you put them in the laundry basket in the closet and, maybe, in the washing machine?"
He's a sweetheart, and usually does it right away -- the reason he didn't do it before is because, honestly, he doesn't think about his clothes unless he's out of clean underwear.
In return, he feeds me. I hate cooking.
sofar at January 25, 2011 8:03 PM
@katebo, I grew up in a messy house, too! Multiple dogs, nature-y mom who tended her gardens but hated cleaning, dad who just kind of left things lying around, parents refusing to throw anything away. I think that's why I clean so much now.
sofar at January 25, 2011 8:08 PM
If you can't feel comfortable with the clutter, don't ever live together. You will drive each other crazy.
My husband abhors clutter.
I clean the kitchen and bathrooms. I like things sanitary and every couple of weeks, I love to make things look beautiful and shine.
My husband and I drive each other crazy. Every time I turn around, I have left something around. If I spend my energy picked up after myself constantly, I am too worn out to ever make things look beautiful or get organized.
Whenever I try to organize, I have to make a mess first. I have become unorganized and now I am driving MYSELF crazy.
The poster did not make any complaints about cleanliness. If she is indeed cleaner than you are, you may have a mate that is perfect for you -if you can appreciate her contributions and she can appreciate yours. If it will bother you that she does not think the same way or have the same priorities, then run!
Jen at January 25, 2011 8:58 PM
And, this is exactly why my boyfriend of ten years and I live in separate houses (well, there's a couple other reasons, but this is a biggie).
I'm neat, he's not. He's not a total pig, but he can leave dishes around for days, whereas that drives me right up the wall, especially since they are sitting on the counter RIGHT OVER THE DAMN DISHWASHER.
I know exactly how this could go, because I did this when I was married: I cleaned up, then started to resent it, and then blew up at my then-husband. Now, basically this was my fault, because I'd been cleaning and had essentially trained him to think it was my job, then got pissed when he assumed it was my job. So, with this guy, I just refused to do it. His house, his mess. It was hard at first, but I can go home to my clean house and he can clean up his dishes when he damn well pleases. I will say, when he DOES decide to clean something he does a spectacular job, but his tolerance for clutter is way beyond mine. Separate houses is definitely the way to go.
Daghain at January 25, 2011 9:00 PM
At least she sounds clutter-y messy and not disgusting-messy. Dirty clothes and trash and half eaten food would be a huge red flag (at least for me) but this just sounds like she lacks some basic organization skills. Maybe her mom always cleaned up after her and she never learned. Have you offered to help her get organized? She might be thrilled for the help if she just doesn't know where to begin on her own.
Shannon at January 25, 2011 10:21 PM
If the neat versus sloppy disparity is too much, resentment will definitely build in both parties. Don't put yourselves through that in the long term.
If you are both wonderful, kind, caring people who love one another deeply, it's still very possible that you just aren't a good match. This sort of thing might be an indication of that.
P.S. -- I'm not advising that you stop banging her. :)
whistleDick at January 26, 2011 4:07 AM
I think there is hope!
There was an actual study that stated that single women do LESS housekeeping than ANY OTHER demographic group, including single men, etc. But, this changes as they 'couple up', and those same ladies wind up doing more cleaning once they cohabit. The study showed that single men clean house quite a bit, then slag off once they are married.
I myself am an example of a reformed messy gal. I lived in a 3 room apt. as if it was a studio: the other rooms were not even unpacked, and became a cluttered mess. Once my man moved in, we worked together and made it nice. Now that we are married and have a baby, I am constantly neatening up...just saying, there is hope for some of us!
lori m at January 26, 2011 10:39 AM
You absolutely need to go the housekeeper route. I was married for 20 years to a guy that turned out to be a neat freak (we married young & didn't live together - no, I didn't know this fact before marraige) & I turned out to be the not so neat one. It was a living he** for me. Constant criticism from him. I felt I was constantly under a microscope. It was horrible. Please do not knowingly put someone through this. It got to the point that nothing I ever did was good enough - not just the cleaning or housekeeping.
janelle at January 26, 2011 2:51 PM
LW, if it doesn't work out with your girlfriend, can you send me her number? She sounds perfect for me - as long as we keep our stacks of books and bills separate :)
Strangely enough, it's not always just about neat vs not-so-neat. Different people have different ideas about what matters or not. My ex that I lived with for 8 years is just as bad with clutter as I am, but we still managed to infuriate each other. My piles of books and papers drove her nuts when she wanted the table clear to wrap presents. Her insistence on getting a new cutting board and knife out to cut another piece of fruit (you only used that one half an hour ago - just scrub it if you're worried! And what's with that fresh plate, remember who does the dishes round here!) tended to make me a bit snarky.
Some people have no problem with a heap of washing in the corner but can't stand dust on the window frames. And some people are the other way round.
Ltw at January 26, 2011 10:03 PM
I suspect relationships would last longer if couples just bought duplexes. Best of both worlds.
Daghain at January 26, 2011 10:26 PM
I leave little piles of paper everywhere! I don't mean to, but I never seem to follow thru-if I pay the bill, the statement sits there. If I get something I need to read, there it sits whether I have read it or not.
My husband takes care of every piece of correspondence immediately!
On the other hand, I do way more cleaning decorating etc. than he does plus all the cooking. He has never mopped a floor in the almost 5 years we're together.
He has to put up with my papers until I get around to them once a month or so, but there is a great dinner made every evening, clean sheets, towels, clothes(he does do some laundry as well, but less than I do.)
Neither of us is perfect but we'll deal with it.
Linny at January 27, 2011 9:20 AM
@sofar - where were you before I was married (well, who knows how old you are - you might have been in diapers)? I would make that arrangement you have with your boyfriend in a heartbeat. As it is, we are two people with completely lackluster cleaning tendencies, so we never invite anyone to visit.
WayneB at January 27, 2011 12:38 PM
lol Wayne B, funny thing was, the mess never stopped him from inviting people over. It just created more messes -- beer cans on top of the clutter. Now that we live together, if his friends make the mess, he cleans it up. But I'm the one who steam cleans the futon and sprays it down with Febreeze (because that's a little overboard and totally my issue).
sofar at January 28, 2011 8:38 AM
3 cheers for sofar! :)
Robert at January 28, 2011 10:02 AM
Try FLYlady.net - she's great not just about how to clean so it's not a burden but about the psychology of peace in the home.
AntoniaB at January 31, 2011 7:18 PM
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