Keeping A Lady Hating
My girlfriend of four years is a wonderful person I still love. And, yes, I messed up and feel terrible about it. She wanted to get married and have children, and I realized I didn't. She not only dumped me, she's calling me horrible (and untrue) things, like a liar and a fake -- weeks after telling me what a great person I am and how deeply she loves me.
--Mud
There's a good chance your girlfriend spent a substantial part of your four years together waiting for you to pop the question, and not the one that goes "So, did you get all of your stuff out of my place?" Not every woman wants The Royal Wedding and a bunch of babies, but a whole lot do, especially when they're bumping up against 30, and that shouldn't be exotic cultural knowledge for any guy. It would've been nice if you'd been speedier in figuring out that you weren't up for the husband thing. But, assuming you didn't promise you'd marry her while crossing your fingers behind your back, it isn't like you committed some sort of relationship fraud. Ultimately, it was up to your girlfriend to let you know that the stakes were marriage or bust. You can regret hurting her, but maybe take solace in no longer being with a woman who loves you so deeply and thinks so highly of you that she wants nothing less than to spend the rest of her life with you, you lying fake.
I'm confused, did he tell her that he wanted to marry her and then back out? How did he mess up, and what does he feel terrible about?
If not, she's really got no cause to slander him.
Pedro at May 10, 2011 6:58 PM
LW, it sucks to hear your former girlfriend badmouthing you, but it's not entirely unexpected and there's nothing you can do about it. Assuming you were expedient in telling her when you figured out you didn't want marriage and kids, you didn't do anything wrong. And you're not going to logic her out of being hurt and expressing that hurt all over town. I'd say that if someone in your mutual circle of friends brings it up, you just say that you figured out you didn't want the same things as she did. Stay calm and don't get defensive and people will probably start telling her to cool it with the trash talk.
NumberSix at May 10, 2011 9:13 PM
Pedro, $20 bucks says he was aganist(or at best netrual) on the whole marrige/kids thing when they got together, how well he comunicated this fact is anyones guess - but given how guilty he says he feels I'm guessing not well
The girlfriend probably thought she could change him, and when he didnt change he was the asshole for not giving her what she wanted.
I'm always amazaed at how often people expect others to change everything about themselves
http://www.theonion.com/articles/girlfriend-changes-man-into-someone-shes-not-inter,1507/
lujlp at May 11, 2011 12:20 AM
I suspect the girlfriend might have known all along he wasn't that interested in marrying her, but hoped against hope that he'd change, and when he wouldn't, decided he was horrible. It's a lot easier to do that than it is to blame herself for failing to see what she should have seen.
That said, it took four years to get to that point? At what point did LW strongly suspect his girlfriend wanted to get married? If he knew pretty early on, but didn't make his position clear at the time, then I'd say he is at least a little guilty of stringing her along.
Old RPM Daddy at May 11, 2011 3:50 AM
Guys, most women want the husband and kids, and if they are dating you they are hoping it will grow into that. You will avoid being confused and into situations like this if you assume this from the get-go. If it takes you four years to tell her you don't want kids, you will have been stringing her along.
Women like Amy are exceptional.
NicoleK at May 11, 2011 4:24 AM
Put it this way... if you took a woman out to dinner, and she spent the whole evening suggestively sucking her spoon, running her foot up to your crotch under the table, and licking her lips, while saying, "I'm a celibate virgin" in a breathy voice, what would you think? And if she didn't bang you later, (after all she told you she was celibate even when she did that pole dance on the signpost in front of your apartment, and even though she kissed you on your bed) wouldn't you think she was a bitch?
Dating a woman for several years is similar in that the mere fact of dating her for a long time is a signal, to most women, that you want to marry her eventually and that it is just a matter of time. And even if you say, "I'm not looking for a life partner", the act of dating her is such a pro-marriage signal that most women will be confused at the conflicting messages, and choose the one they prefer.
Don't go through relationship motions if you're not serious.
NicoleK at May 11, 2011 4:28 AM
I disagree NicoleK.
Dating a woman for a long time means you want to keep dating her.
If a man hasn't proposed after 2 years, what reason is there to believe he'll do so in another 2? Dating for 4 years...that's almost half a decade.
I find it very hard to believe that the subject of conversation betwixt these two was never more than politics, your place or mine, and what movie to see next.
Somewhere along the line the question of kids comes up when people date extensively. Want em, don't want em, got em, want more of em? And when they may or may not be ready for them.
Now men are as a group, fairly direct and uncomplex.
Women as a group, have a tendency to fail to recognize this, and a much more profoundly obvious tendency to desire to see a man change.
As the saying goes, "Men marry women hoping they won't change, women marry men hoping that they will."
Its possible he was stringing her along, but I don't get that vibe. Like most men who are unexpectedly ripped into by a woman, he's in the dazed and confused stage.
I'd wager good odds that the subject came up in passing, she brought it up to probe his thoughts on the subject, and he thought it was purely hypothetical and said maybe he might possibly want kids and the whole white picket fence thing, and the subject dropped. I'd put good money on her latching onto that passing remark as a commitment. And finally 4 years in she wanted to revisit the conversation and found his hypothetical maybe possibility had become an undesirable end. Now in her mind he's at fault for not clarifying what he didn't know was a big issue to her.
But I would say...if it was such a big damn deal...why wasn't it raised 6 months into the relationship? Why wait 4 years with someone who makes no indication that they're intending to marry?
Answer: "All women are nuts." ~Rat (Pearls Before Swine)
I jest, but the power of self delusion and futile hope springs most fervently in the hearts and minds of the more complex people.
A brief example out of my own life:
There was a woman I let live with me for a few weeks when she lost her place, I told her repeatedly, "I am not your boyfriend or anyone elses." "I am not boyfriend material and have no interest in becoming such." I made it plain as could be, but within 24 hours of some sexual contact, she was telling people I was her significant other, that I was her boyfriend, etc."
Now in my case it was an exceptionally stupid woman. I say that not because she was a woman...but because she was just plain stupid.
She resorted to some of the LW's ex's tactics immediately after I gave her the boot from my life.
That similarity leaves me with the admittedly biased perception that he may have found himself in a similar situation.
Robert at May 11, 2011 4:48 AM
You've made a great point, Nicole, and thank you for a very valuable woman's perspective. I have what will seem to be an opposing view, but it's not to say that I don't think you are one hundred percent right.
There is a man's perspective on this as well that is just as correct. Many men aren't looking for the marriage, family, and all that. I don't know what the letter writer's age group is, but age group has a lot to do with it. Middle-aged me, for example.
I've already done the marriage and family thing as have most single men my age. I couldn't disagree more that dating implies designs on marriage. It's nice to have a stimulating companion to do things with, hang out from time to time, share a loving friendship with and, to be frank, bang. Where I am in my life means that this is my definition of "dating".
The "banging" vulgarity is not even mandatory in my book. I have one on the roster that is my go to girl for operas and symphonies. It's hard to find a woman that likes that kind of shit now-a-day and we both have a great time. She's hands down the best looking woman I date, but either is very conservative or just doesn't like to have sex (I've heard legends that those women exist, but never before believed it) and so she doesn't put out. It's a crying shame, but it makes me really wary that she is after more of a marriage type of situation. Again, a crying shame.
My point is that there exists my attitude of dating as well. That is, that I don't want to tether myself to another person at this point, but I still enjoy an outing from time to time and the company of women. I could be convinced on the marriage thing for the unlikely right woman, I suppose, but I'm not desperately seeking it. Some people are comfortable being alone without wanting to sacrifice meaningful friendships and romances with the opposite sex.
whistleDick at May 11, 2011 5:13 AM
Yes, Robert, statistically the longer people date the less likely they are to get married. This is true.
The thing is, women see these things as part of a progression... frequent dates, sex, calling each other boyfriend and girlfriend, moving in together... these are seen as a progression towards marriage. If you are doing any one of those things, odds are the woman you are with is seeing it as a progressive step. Should the woman see it that way? Obviously not. But odds are she will. You can wish it wasn't so. But since this seems to occur a LOT...
Thing is, all those things are the accepted courtship steps in our culture. Except when they aren't. Which is why it is so confusing.
Having a sex with a woman while she is living with you sends a signal that you are interested, regardless of what your words say. Even if you're not. The signal is there.
And yes, the woman is a chump and an idiot, and yes she "should" have listened to you. But what does it say when so many women DON'T listen to the words?
It's like if a woman keeps taking expensive gifts, dinners, vacations, etc. from a man. She tells him she doesn't want to have sex but continues dressing provocatively around him and accepting his gifts. Yea... he's a chump. Doesn't make her signals less mixed, and doesn't make her less of a bitch.
You don't want a girl to think you're interested? If you are truly doing her a favor and letting her just crash, don't have sex with her... ESPECIALLY while she is living with you. It's just too domestic.
I'm sure you didn't mean to be mean and cruel. I'm sure the intention was not there. But the fact is, the signals were mixed.
EVEN IF THEY SHOULDN'T BE MIXED.
I agree that women "should" listen to the words not the actions. But we don't live in a dream fantasy world where all the women are dying to have tons of sex with no commitment. As it stands, most (not all) women do want commitment most (not all) of the time, even when they're pretending they don't care because they don't want to scare you off.
Yeah, I hate it when my single friends say "But I don't want to put pressure on him or scare him off." Yeah, I agree it would be to their benefit to scare off the ones who don't want what they want. But this is the world as it is.
Here's how to not be "dazed and confused". This is GENERAL, and there are exceptions, like Amy and some others. Remember everyone is different and this is a very general rule.
If you don't want to be in a relationship that eventually leads to marriage:
- Don't move in with a woman or let her move in with you. Exceptions can be made for roommate situations but there can be no sex.
- Don't take her out on regular dates. Dating to women is like heavy petting without ejaculation to men. Foreplay.
- Don't have regular sex with the same woman
- Don't tell her you love her
- Don't talk about the future with her
- Do tell her, often, you're not interested in a relationship with her
- Don't spend the night at her place or have her spend the night at yours.
- DO tell her BEFORE you have sex that you don't want a relationship, even if she's a one-night stand. There's some whacky chemical hormonal shit that happens with a lot of women during sex that makes them bond. If you tell her AFTER the fact it may be too late. Tell her before you even end up alone in some secluded place together.
You can wish women were less messed up about this stuff but they (as a group, again, there are exceptions) aren't.
NicoleK at May 11, 2011 5:14 AM
Whistledick... yes, this is the problem. The men who want to date casually and have it not lead anywhere outnumber the women who do. Fundamentally that's the problem, isn't it?
NicoleK at May 11, 2011 5:16 AM
"Now men are as a group, fairly direct and uncomplex."
Spot on, Robert. Why the heck don't women understand this? I'd amend this to say that we're complex, just not at all complex when it comes to communication.
Women, please, repeat after me, "What my man says, he means it and he means it exactly as he said it and not any other way."
whistleDick at May 11, 2011 5:21 AM
I suppose that's true, Nicole. If you're a woman. For a man, it's not so bad :)
The real trouble is that women my age (40) are grasping for security and all that crap after they've squandered their first shot at it. It's a shame, but ces't la vie. It's not so bad for a man.
whistleDick at May 11, 2011 5:26 AM
Nicole,
I just read your 5:16 comment. You're teaching me a lot. Thank you. I love you! Oh, shit. I just violated rule number four.
whistleDick at May 11, 2011 5:33 AM
Wow, Nicole, YOU are spot-on!! Excellent post at 5:16!
Flynne at May 11, 2011 6:06 AM
"She wanted to get married and have children, and I realized I didn't."
So that = end of relationship. Accept it.
Letterwriter, quit wringing your hands like a washmaid scolded by the housemaster.
Don't call her, don't talk about her, and don't explain anything to anyone. Just get on with your life.
If people ever bring her up, and say, "Dude she is really talking smack about you...?", in order to get you to dish, say nothing. Simply tell them it didn't work out, add you don't like to discuss your love affairs with people, and then change the topic.
Spartee at May 11, 2011 6:22 AM
Interesting posts here, as always, about the differences between men and women, and the pitfalls we all encounter when trying to map out our futures.
I agree that women try to change men who won't change, and it's a stupid waste of time.
But I will venture out and suggest that most men ALSO want to settle down with a wife and family, and that they want a feeling of stability as well.
I'd be willing to bet that LW THOUGHT this was what he wanted, (and maybe even expressed or insinuated that, which is why his ex is so pissed) but then 4 years down the road, he realized that he DIDN'T want that...with HER.
Ten bucks says that somewhere down the road, he will find a woman he's more compatible with, crazy about, who he wants to procreate with. And it won't take him 4 years to decide this.
lori m. at May 11, 2011 7:02 AM
"But I will venture out and suggest that most men ALSO want to settle down with a wife and family, and that they want a feeling of stability as well."
Meh.
whistleDick at May 11, 2011 7:34 AM
It would also help to realize that words are only one way in which people communicate, whether we want to admit it or not. Body language, tone and other factors are at least as or if not more important than words. If a guy tells me he's not cheating on me while he frantically minimizes his browser every time I walk in the room, I'm going to pay more attention to his actions than I do his words.
Also, people are going to filter your words through their own perceptions, experiences insecurities and strengths. We all do it, not just women. Your words are never these neutral things with a reality of their own.
That said, LW: You didn't marry her, and it was good you got out when you realized you didn't want what she wanted. She may trash talk you. She's hurt and behaving childishly, and there's not a lot you can do about it.
MonicaP at May 11, 2011 7:46 AM
Sorry—but when you commit four years of your life to someone, both of you are perfectly aware that you're in it for the long haul, or you need to break up. This guy is probably exactly what the girlfriend called him and more—otherwise he wouldn't be looking at it like "he messed up."
Razor at May 11, 2011 8:16 AM
I think it is a fair assessment that most men want to have a family.
The desire for children is not uniquely feminine.
How many men regularly say, "I would never want a son of my own?" Or, "I can't stand the idea of having a little girl." How many men would really hate coming home to a devoted wife who is happy to see him and happy to help to build a comfortable life for them both. Men can be cold and highly compartmentalized, that is part of our nature.
But it is equally a part of most men's nature to enjoy play wrestling with their kids and listen to their 8 year old girl say, "higher daddy! higher!" when she's pushed on a swing or tossed into the air.
Some men don't want that, certainly they outnumber their female counterparts.
But any man who grew up with a happy homelife as a child, would almost certainly desire to recreate it as an adult with children of their own.
NicoleK does dispense some sound advice on a number of points with regards to how women see things, particularly sharp point regarding the chemical release that forms bonds during sex. I've read about that somewhere, I don't recall where.
If more women were as plainspoken and direct/sensible as she and our lady of advice, women might be stereotyped as "the rational sex" at some point. :)
Robert at May 11, 2011 8:23 AM
About six weeks into our relationship, my wife wondered whether our I was thinking our relationship was casual or if I was thinking we were heading toward living together in the future, so she did something really weird.
She asked me, "Are you thinking our relationship is casual or are you thinking we might be heading toward living together in the future?"
Steamer at May 11, 2011 8:25 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2011/05/keeping-a-lady.html#comment-2125918">comment from RobertBut any man who grew up with a happy homelife as a child, would almost certainly desire to recreate it as an adult with children of their own.
An incorrect assumption. I have never wanted children, and I have no interest in pledging to spend the rest of my life with anyone. I'm very happy with Gregg (eight years), and I can't see being without him, which is different.
But, I have dated many men who were thrilled that I was a woman who didn't want to "take it to the next level," and that I just wanted to keep seeing them because I loved or cared about them, and we had great sex and a great time together.
Amy Alkon at May 11, 2011 8:28 AM
I do think Robert has a point in that the desire for marriage and children is not a uniquely feminine thing. Most of my male friends, once they reach their 30s, want marriage and children. Some don't, but some women don't, either.
If it were true that women wanted babies and men had to be dragged kicking and screaming into it, we wouldn't see so many men fighting to get their children in divorces.
The desire to build a life with someone who will treat you well and raise children together applies to men and women.
MonicaP at May 11, 2011 8:43 AM
"But any man who grew up with a happy homelife as a child, would almost certainly desire to recreate it as an adult with children of their own."
Any man with a grasp of reality would realize that getting married means there is a 50/50 chance that he will end up in a bachelor suite sending half of his paycheque to his ex-wife so she and her new boyfriend can go on vacations he can only dream about.
Steamer at May 11, 2011 8:45 AM
She asked me, "Are you thinking our relationship is casual or are you thinking we might be heading toward living together in the future?"
Your wife is a genius and you should get her a publicist.
In defense of this young man, it is quite possible that his girlfriend indicated that she also was not contemplating marriage only to change her mind. Amy says that she is pushing thirty, so they have been together since she was in her early to mid twenties. Young women at that age often aren't even thinking of marriage and children. But the change can come on them suddenly, and especially once their girlfriends start to marry. That's when you get the crazy rush to marry RIGHT NOW!!!
I don't think that it's fair, or realistic, to tell young men that they have an obligation to marry a woman because they have been kind to her, or had sex with her. That's not going to result in good marriages and only encourages women to try to trick men into marrying them.
You have to consider that this young man knows his ex girlfriend well enough to determine for himself whether he should marry her, and he has decided not to. There may be a good reason. Look at how she has turned on him.
Pedro at May 11, 2011 9:02 AM
NicoleK (or anyone else with the same views),
I agree with you that women often have the unspoken expectations you describe.
Is there any way for a man who wants the woman but not marriage (with or without children) to communicate that to her? Since his words are getting drowned out by his living with her and having sex with her, what action(s) (or words) allow him to have sex with her, date her, ... but not marriage and still avoid misleading her?
Thom at May 11, 2011 9:32 AM
Difference between men and women
IN HER DIARY:
Tonight, I thought my husband was acting weird. We had made plans to meet at a bar to have a drink. I was shopping with my friends all day long, so I thought he was upset at the fact that I was a bit late, but he made no comment on it. Conversation wasn't flowing, so I suggested that we go somewhere quiet so we could talk. He agreed, but he didn't say much. I asked him what was wrong. He said, "Nothing." I asked him if it was my fault that he was upset. He said that he wasn't upset, that it had nothing to do with me, and not to worry about it. On the way home, I told him that I loved him. He smiled slightly, and kept driving. I can't explain his behavior. I don't know why he didn't say, "I love you, too." When we got home, I felt as if I had lost him completely, as if he wanted nothing to do with me anymore. He just sat there quietly and watched TV. He continued to seem distant and absent. Finally, with silence all around us, I decided to go to bed. About 15 minutes later, he came to bed. To my surprise, he responded to my caress, and we made love. But I still felt that he was distracted, and that his thoughts were somewhere else. He fell asleep...I cried. I don't know what to do. I'm almost sure that his thoughts are with someone else. My life is a disaster.
IN HIS DIARY:
Shot 86 today. Can't put for shit. Got laid though.
Steamer at May 11, 2011 10:09 AM
Excellent insights, Nicole.
Thom, the rules Nicole listed are spot on. And, to answer your question, you shouldn't live with a woman if you aren't serious about committing to her at some point. I mean, if you know that's what she ultimately wants, then you're just wasting her valuable time when she could be finding a partner that wants the same.
If you only want to date and have sex, then you need to be straight up from the beginning, saying something like, "I'm only interested in a casual relationship." Many women probably won't date you or have sex with you after that pronouncement, and the ones who will may not believe you, but at least you've been honest.
In his 30s, my husband actually had an agreement with a girl that they would date exclusively for 6 months. He explained that he didn't want anything serious with her, but he also didn't want to sleep with a woman who was sleeping with every other guy in town. She agreed, but, at the end of the time period, she wanted an extension, and he said no. lol This story amazes me, but it shows how honest and straightforward he is.
lovelysoul at May 11, 2011 10:11 AM
Thom-
To answer your question, he could just pay her for the sex and be done with it. What you are describing is called a prostitute. Most women won't want to give you what you are asking for without some sort of defined relationship. Just like women think men should want them no matter what they look like, men want to believe there is an army of women out there just looking to hook up. Sorry. Not true. Biology says this is not in a woman's best interest and even if she does it while in her younger years, as she ages the relationship becomes important.
Sheepmommy at May 11, 2011 10:15 AM
LW, you did nothing wrong. You recognized that you and the GF had different goals and made a very brave, very tough decision in the best interests of someone you love.
That said, you still have to be the "bad guy." Because you ended it. That is your role. Accept it. She's grieving and saying terrible things. But take Spartee's advice -- stay classy. Move on, and don't feel guilty about being happy.
My sister was in this situation. She ended a long-term relationship after she found someone else she was more attracted to and compatible with. She broke up with her boyfriend. He reacted badly, and said some pretty nasty things about my sister in their social circle. I told her that, even though she did EVERYTHING right, she still has to accept the role of "bad guy" and move on.
sofar at May 11, 2011 11:02 AM
I would love to date and date only one guy.. I have no desire to get married. My problem is even finding guys who want to date!! They want sex, but that is about it. However, I don't "give up", but keep on keeping on as it is not the end of my world..!
melody at May 11, 2011 1:06 PM
Thom, you would just have to find a woman who truly was not interested in getting married and having kids. I have heard it said that men marry women because if they didn't, they'd lose their girlfriends. And that they have kids because if they didn't, they'd lose their wives.
Don't be one of those guys.
If what you would like is a long-term, monogamous relationship with a woman where you don't get married or have kids, then don't get talked into anything else. It might be later in life before you find something like that, but so what. Have fun in the meantime, and you still have it to look forward to.
Pirate Jo at May 11, 2011 1:28 PM
I find it odd that in four years, the possibility of them getting married/having kids hasn't come up at all before now. So I'd assume that either a) she's claimed she's cool about never being married (and then changed her mind - in which case, the guy is fortunate to escape her) or b) the guy has gone "oh, yeah, in another year or two we'll talk about it" as a way of keeping peace/staying together, then finally said, "it's not going to happen" in which case, I can see why she'd be really angry to have wasted four years with someone who was stringing her along.
Mahkara at May 11, 2011 1:34 PM
I find it odd that in four years, the possibility of them getting married/having kids hasn't come up at all before now.
Depends on how old they are. If they're in their 20s I wouldn't be surprised at all. I was with a guy for more than 4 years (age 20-25), so those topics never came up. At 25, we realized the relationship was not compatible with each of our life goals and went our separate ways.
Now, I'm 27, in a 2-year-long relationship, and we don't really talk about that stuff either. Mostly, it's stuff like "OK, better pay rent. How much do we each owe?" and "Can we afford to go to Japan next year? It would be cheaper to fly to Costa Rica."
sofar at May 11, 2011 2:22 PM
You know, there's a couple of ways to interpret "I don't want to get married."
1. I don't want to get married EVER.
2. I don't want to get married RIGHT NOW.
3. I don't want to get married TO YOU.
If they were in a relationship for four years, it's entirely possible that he mentioned wanting to be married at some point in the future, which she thought meant he wanted to be married to HER in the future. I don't think that's an unreasonable connection for her to make if they were together for FOUR YEARS.
It's also entirely possible (I'd actually say it was PROBABLE) that she mentioned being married (in general terms--not necessarily to him) at some point during their four year relationship.
If she did and he didn't immediately and repeatedly state that his positions were 1 and 3, he's a dick for wasting her time.
If she's over thirty, he's a GIANT dick.
Depending on age, four years can make the difference between "being able to have kids" and "yeah, not so much," and wanting to have kids isn't an unreasonable desire for women OR men.
Four years does NOT a casual relationship make (unless you're also seeing other people). There are exceptions, but not a whole lot of them.
afurrica at May 12, 2011 12:14 AM
It may be that she pretended to be cool with their existing relationship, or it may be that he led her on. Either way, it's water under the bridge now as far as the LW is concerned. LW, take what you learned into your next relationship, whatever or whenever that may be. And take the high road and blow off your ex's trash talk.
Cousin Dave at May 12, 2011 9:36 AM
Of course, to take a darker view, maybe the LW had been hurt bad by a woman in the past, and hey, SOMEONE had to pay.
kevin_m at May 13, 2011 6:31 AM
If she did and he didn't immediately and repeatedly state that his positions were 1 and 3, he's a dick for wasting her time.
Oh come on. Agreeing to marry isn't game of gotcha - ha ha, I've tricked you into agreeing to marrying me!
I didn't ask you to marry me?
Well you didn't ask me NOT to marry you either, so we're getting married!!
ploop at May 13, 2011 1:41 PM
If she did and he didn't immediately and repeatedly state that his positions were 1 and 3, he's a dick for wasting her time.
Hmm. Let's try that in other circumstances.
"If she dated him without making very clear she was never going to put out, then she's a real bitch."
Does that work for you too?
flydye at May 13, 2011 10:22 PM
Gosh, Flydye, I've never known a couple to date for four years without SOMEBODY putting out, but I suppose that if a woman managed to string a guy along for four solid years, dating exclusively and yet never sleeping with him, that's pretty far into the Fucked Up camp, sure.
I really don't think gender has much to do with it. If you're in a relationship with somebody who (you know) wants to settle down/get married/have kids and you don't, or at least not with them, there comes a point where you really are wasting their time and yours.
There are plenty of tomato/tomahto issues in relationships, but this isn't one of those things where people can typically agree to disagree in an amicable way, or reach a compromise that makes everybody happy.
How does it go? A fish and a bird may fall in love, but where would they live?
Anyway, back to the original letter:
"She wanted to get married and have children, and I realized I didn't." This language, and the bit about her specifically calling him a liar (and not just a douchebag, which has a much more satisfying ring to it when you're really pissed off) is what makes me think that there was perhaps a bit of on-leading transpiring, whether intentional or not.
The original poster may be a swell guy, but their relationship went on as long as a presidential term. That's more than enough time to go through your mental compatibility checklist.
She wanted to get married and settle down. He didn't. Both positions are equally valid, but I do kind of have to ask: What kind of reaction was he hoping for?
"Gee, honey, I know you've always wanted to get married and have kids and I've been kind of on the fence about it and all, but now I'm sure: No kids, no ring, no way. So...should we hit the 5 o'clock showing of that new Matt Damon flick?"
He had to know this was going to napalm the relationship, but then again, they didn't want the same things and had really big compatibility issues, so why shouldn't it?
afurrica at May 14, 2011 1:21 AM
He had to know this was going to napalm the relationship
End. She was the one who decided to napalm it by bringing fire to the mix.
flydye at May 14, 2011 5:44 AM
The fact that he doesn't acknowledge backing out of a commitment to marry her, suggests to me that there was never any explicit agreement to marry, even 'someday'. What's more likely is that he knew that she wanted to get married and have kids at some point, but never explicitly told her that she shouldn't regard him as the candidate. He may never have given the question serious consideration. When she finally pressed the question, he realized that he wasn't ready. Then she probably tried to grind him down until his only recourse was to claim that he never wanted to get married.
LW if I were you, I'd hold off on making any final decisions regarding marriage. Your attitudes may change once you meet another girl.
And keep in mind that the girlfriend's behavior is indicative of how she'd behave if she were married. It's quite likely that things would end the same way if you did marry her, only he'd be in his mid to late thirties with a kid or two. Women who lie and behave vindictively are giving you an unfiltered view of their character, and character is what really matters in the long run.
Picolicolala at May 14, 2011 7:49 AM
And, there is a problem here? LW, you are free dude, for the price of a few insults? Do you want diapers also?
BOTU at May 15, 2011 11:51 AM
BOTU is right: LW is free, but the g/f is also free now too. Sure, they spent an inordinate amount of time together before finding out they weren't meant to be together, but at least they didn't make the mistake some do by getting married against their better judgement. Best thing this guy can take away from it is that in his next relationship, he should state his preferences up front instead of waiting for 4 years. If she trash talks you on this, you should count your blessings - she'd trash talk you in future over smaller, less significant issues.
And as a footnote, the chemical that is released into the bloodstream when 2 people have intercourse is 'oxytocin', otherwise known as the love drug, and it can happen to men as well as women.
Bluejean Baby at May 23, 2011 8:23 PM
I went through the same thing with my last boyfriend. He had told me that he wasn't the type for marriage, but I still dated him, and he lavished me with attention and treated me like a queen. Then, as I probably should have expected, he broke up with me. Not because I wanted more, but because HE wanted more.....with someone else. He moved her into his home within 2 months.
Now that's what you call srtinging along.....wanting a committment, but telling your GF that you don't, because you just don't want a committment with HER. I bet that's what this guy did. She wasn't Ms. Right, but he was willing to settle (for 4 years) with Ms. Right-Now.
susan at June 18, 2011 8:42 AM
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