Mommy Dirtiest
Last week, my 25-year-old daughter's ex-boyfriend said hi to me in a bar, and one thing led to another, and we ended up in bed. I felt absolutely terrible about what happened, and then my daughter, out of the blue, announced that she's finally over him. In fact, she insisted she is. Is there any way I could keep seeing him, and if so, should I tell her?
--Don't Want To Lose My Daughter
A mother doesn't risk her relationship with her daughter for just anything. In your case, somebody has to say hi. (One wonders what you'd do for "Lovely weather we're having" or "Have a nice day.") If you care at all about your daughter, think hard about what creepy, narcissistic competitiveness led you to go home with her ex and how creepy you're still being, wondering how you might snag her okay to go back for seconds. Sure, your daughter said she's over the guy. And she could be -- more than anybody has ever been over anybody -- and still never get over hearing her mother say, "Oh, sweetie, I bumped into your ex...and then I ground into him for hours."
>> Is there any way I could keep seeing him
Well you could call the booking agent for the Jerry Springer show. I'm sure that they'd love to see you two get together again.
moe at May 24, 2011 5:15 PM
I've always lived by the idea that you can't help who you're attracted to, and consensual sex is never wrong.
But...
I honestly never thought of this kind of scenario. If my mom slept with my ex, I can not begin to describe how horribly and irreversibly it would eff me up.
sofar at May 24, 2011 7:34 PM
Ewww. But I'm beyond relieved that this letter didn't end with the daughter announcing out of the blue that she and the boyfriend were back together.
elementary at May 24, 2011 9:24 PM
How the hell did one thing lead to another? There's a big chunk of information missing between "Hi, you're Rachel's mom, right?" and "Your panties are hanging from the ceiling fan." I'd think that if the guy hit on her and was making all the moves, LW would want us to know about it, so I have to side with Amy and her categorization of LW as competitive with her daughter. I'll second the creepy, too.
Is there any way I could keep seeing him, and if so, should I tell her?
Can I keep him? Please? Yuck. Again, I have to ask why. Why, LW? You forgot the why. Also, the guy may not be worth having if he'll sleep with an ex's mom. At best, he just went along with it while she made all the moves. May have been part of why they broke up in the first place. Just saying.
NumberSix at May 24, 2011 9:30 PM
Let's run it through the translator:
"This is a young hot guy, and I'm feeling old. I'd rather feel young and get my rocks off then worry about what is happening inside my daughter's head."
Gee...you go cougar. Rowr!
flydye at May 24, 2011 9:36 PM
Barbara Oakley, white courtesy phone...
Cousin Dave at May 24, 2011 10:37 PM
I'll skip the sugar coating...LW made a very selfish choice and still holds on to some sort of delusion about herself as a caring parent, the future availability of whatever with this guy.
Sometimes in adult-land we avoid doing something we'd really LIKE to do because good judgement says it would hurt someone. What's done is done and LW needs to keep her legs and mouth shut and let her daughter be happy.
Poly at May 24, 2011 10:41 PM
Ewww. But I'm beyond relieved that this letter didn't end with the daughter announcing out of the blue that she and the boyfriend were back together.
Yeah. I was reading that paragraph cringing all the way.
I translated this:
my daughter, out of the blue, announced that she's finally over him. In fact, she insisted she is.
into either: I found out about what a skeeve he is and how could you mom? (Less likely. If my dad slept with one of my ex's it would get ugly)
or: I triple checked with my daughter that she already dropped this loser so I have the all clear.
God I hope it was the first one. How does one go about having an ex-mom?
flydye at May 24, 2011 11:59 PM
I'm betting your translation is correct, flydye. Like you, I think the skeeviness of a guy who'd sleep with his ex's mom is part of why they broke up in the first place. I also find it hard to believe the daughter announced "out of the blue" that she was over the guy. People don't insist with no prompting.
Anyone else think Mom sounds like a seven-year-old who stole a toy from his friend's house because he never, ever sees the friend playing with it and he really, really likes it so he deserves it more and, anyway, the friend probably won't even care?
NumberSix at May 25, 2011 1:39 AM
I don't know - under certain circumstances (the daughter really being over him, how long ago they broke up, how it happened, if Mom and the ex have a real attraction) I don't really have a problem with this. I guess most of the time it's going to feel weird for most people. But I've dealt with a lot of slightly weird in my life.
LW seems to feel guilty though, which maybe indicates she knows how her daughter will react. Seizing on her daughter's disavowal of him feels like grasping at straws.
Gotta hand it to the guy though.
Ltw at May 25, 2011 2:01 AM
Just curious--how old is the LW, and how old is the ex-boyfriend? I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this; never in my life, even when considerably younger than 25, have I had a girlfriend whose mother I'd have had the slightest interest in sleeping with.
Rex Little at May 25, 2011 2:07 AM
Why did the song "Mrs. Robinson" start playing in my head? If LW "felt absolutely terrible about what happened," that might be a signal not to do that thing again.
Old RPM Daddy at May 25, 2011 4:22 AM
Fair questions Rex. If the answers were she's 45 and he's 33 (neither unreasonable as guesses), is that so unthinkable?
Ltw at May 25, 2011 4:39 AM
"Is there any way I could keep seeing him,....?"
Maybe. How much extra money does he need? Is there another sugar momma looming, one with a bigger wallet? (Assuming a 20 year or so age difference.) Ask your middle-aged guy friends how expensive it is to keep that hot young thing interested, when your tires have a lot less tread than they used to.
"...and if so, should I tell [my daughter]?"
If you don't want to talk to her much in the near future, or have a close relationship with your eventual grandkids, yeah, go for it.
Spartee at May 25, 2011 5:30 AM
I'm leaning towards Ltw on this one—without all the ages and circumstances, it's not really possible to make a clear-cut judgment.
Razor at May 25, 2011 5:50 AM
I think it is kind of hot when a guy manages to bone every female in the immediate family.
He had them all. Mothers and sisters and maybe the grandmother if she is hot.
David at May 25, 2011 6:37 AM
I don't think I could do it, no matter HOW attracted I was to one of my daughters' exes. That's just...skeevy beyond belief.
Flynne at May 25, 2011 7:19 AM
I think it's a moot point what she wants, since the ex probably just slept with the mom to prove a point. He might keep doing it for a while out of novelty, but I wouldn't expect any longevity out of this.
Neil G. at May 25, 2011 7:36 AM
I knew this had to happen somewhere besides in the mind of whoever (whomever?) wrote those Weekly World News stories.
Pricklypear at May 25, 2011 8:07 AM
Quit while you're behind, LW. You're not only about to ruin your relationship with your daughter, you're also making a fool of yourself. If you're having a midlife crisis, buy a f*cking convertible.
Imagine the dialogue between Ex and his buddies, "...and then I f*cked her mom, too!" (*High-fives all around!*)
Amy's right that it's creepy and narcissistic. It's also completely inappropriate. I hope LW's daughter has better morals than her mother.
ahw at May 25, 2011 8:40 AM
EEEEW! EEEE! Oh, and did I mention, EEEEEEEEEWWWW!!
This is just so wrong on so many levels. And now we know why LW isn't with her daughters father anymore!
Angel at May 25, 2011 10:18 AM
"And now we know why LW isn't with her daughters father anymore!"
I think you are making an assumption there...
Imagine the dialogue between Ex and his buddies, '...and then I f*cked her mom, too!' (*High-fives all around!*)"
Yup. I have been there for those converations, and the guys did pretty much what you say. The women don't hear that, though.
Spartee at May 25, 2011 10:28 AM
No one brought up the other possiblity. They broke up, he's hurting and who doesn't think this is going to come up in a future argument with the daughter? After all, what better way to hurt her than "by the way, I did your Mom?" Or that they have friends in common who are getting the "high fives all around" - how is that not going to get back to her? Let's face it, LW has already done the damage to what was left of her relationship with her daughter.
JulM at May 25, 2011 11:51 AM
How does the old story go? A young-ish guy meets an older woman in a bar. One thing leads to aother and she's whispering in her ear if he wants to go home with her and have a threesome. They get to her house, she leans up the stairs and yells "hey mom come on down".
surfed at May 25, 2011 11:52 AM
Ok...if the guy can say, "That isn't how your daughter does it." Its probably...no, definitely, a BAD idea.
The LW is a thoroughly disgusting person, and I hope the apple fell very far from the tree and rolled a few miles away for good measure.
Every time people talk about "cougars" I can't help but roll my eyes. I've heard women talk about them and talk about being them.
And I've heard guys talk about nailing them. You'd think they were talking about totally different population groups. And so you know, the guys aren't speaking highly of them.
Robert at May 25, 2011 12:09 PM
Just when I thought my faith in humanity could sink no further.
Lobster at May 25, 2011 1:21 PM
Women get unsettled by everything. Trying to keep women happy is like being an elephant walking on eggs.
I would be happy for my Dad if he banged some of my ex-girlfriends. Hell, he could bang all of them, I don't care. He would be happy at that, I am sure.
Man who climbed to top of mountain to talk to guru:
"You know what really, really bothers women?"
Guru:
"Everything, including this joke."
BOTU at May 25, 2011 2:11 PM
I'd agree that we can't really judge the LW ad being creepy except for one thing: she includes no explanation of how she and the guy went from saying hi in a bar to having sex. If the guy was close to her age or they had a legitimate connection, don't you think she'd include that? Unless Amy brutally edited this letter to leave out all the good stuff, it's weird that there is no explanation of why LW and the guy got together. The only rationalization she has is that her daughter is over him.
As creepy as that all is, the thing that really bothers me about this letter is the whiny "Can I keep him?" tone. That is not the tone of a woman who is really into a man but legitimately worries for her relationship with her daughter.
NumberSix at May 25, 2011 2:27 PM
Any guy crass enough to shag his ex's mom is also likely to be an obnoxious braggart. Right now, the news of his "twofer" is circulating through the bar, the Appleby's, the Arby's ... It will reach the daughter soon. The LW needs to spend her precious time devising a sincere apology rather a scheme to increase the damage.
TL at May 25, 2011 3:00 PM
AHAHAHAHAHAHA
Thanks LW for making my day.
I say go for it. Try to keep the wreckage to a minimum.
TheRealPeter at May 25, 2011 3:34 PM
I think it is great. They can date for a while then he can propose with one of those public Yankee Stadium score board thingies.
Then they can have a large tawdry, white trash destination wedding, all out of proportion to either their income or their actual commitment to marriage. :-)
Isabel1130 at May 25, 2011 6:46 PM
Wow - difficult to say who hates the daughter more - LW or the ex.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at May 25, 2011 8:03 PM
In the immortal words of Butt-head:
"Dude, you're mom's a slut."
brian at May 25, 2011 8:56 PM
It must be really irritating for the boyfriend that the daughter is now over him. I know I just hate it when I hurt someone and they have the nerve to get over it. So he bangs her mom, and now has something to throw in the daughter's face.
The mom is simply irredeemable. She's a terrible person and probably always has been.
That poor daughter has been raised by an awful mother with no morals, so I can see why she ends up dating awful men with no morals. I feel sorry for her.
Pirate Jo at May 26, 2011 6:08 AM
This makes me think of the Zach Galifinakis joke about the kid who had sex with his high school teacher: he died today. He died from high-fiving.
I'm not ready to judge mom as a terrible person...I mean, everybody needs to get some now and then, right? But yeah, does it HAVE to be the daughter's ex? Blargh. Is it competitiveness or desperation...I don't know.
I agree with PirateJo and the other commenters who suggested that the ex is getting revenge on the daughter as well as enjoying a round of bragging with his bros. I just don't see this as more than a revenge-fantasy.
Although the LW is asking if she could see the guy again, ten bucks says dude isn't looking for a relationship of any kind, and he's already gotten what he was after.
lori m. at May 26, 2011 7:21 AM
I'm with you, Lori M. - I'm sure the boyfriend has no interest in hooking up with the LW again, because he has already gotten the revenge he wanted. What's astonishing is that the LW is too dumb to see that. Does she really consider herself to be that hot? She allowed herself to be used by the same jerk who had already proven himself to be a jerk to her daughter. What a complete tool.
On the one hand, I hope the daughter is spared from ever having to find out. On the other hand, if she does find out, she can move far, far away, cut her mother (and the ex-boyfriend) out of her life entirely, and live a much better life without this toxic parent in it.
Pirate Jo at May 26, 2011 9:02 AM
Is this for real? I thought such things happened only in porn movies...hilarious...I remember seeing a porn movie with a really similar story...and the movie ends with the daughter having fun with her step dad(mothers ex)
Redrajesh at May 27, 2011 6:17 AM
Am I the only one to seriously question whether this letter is real? Sorry, but I think it's a prank.
Caroline at May 27, 2011 7:10 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2011/05/mommy-dirtiest.html#comment-2181451">comment from CarolineAm I the only one to seriously question whether this letter is real? Sorry, but I think it's a prank.
Letter is real. I know who the woman is, looked her up on Facebook, saw her name in the email footer, and had an extensive exchange with her. If I'm going to make up an email (and thanks, I get piles of them -- no need) I'm going to make one up that sounds less ridiculous.
Amy Alkon at May 27, 2011 7:27 AM
Well, I can't say much on this one - I had an Aunt who married her daughter's ex-husband.
He was a real douchebag, too.
Realistically, if the guy is somewhere between LW's and her daughter's ages, I can see him being attracted to both of them, but the creepy factor of knowing he had been her daughter's boyfriend is pretty high.
Hiding My Name for this comment at May 27, 2011 8:51 AM
This situation is so over the top that it makes me wonder if the mom is just very naive and perhaps inexperienced with men. I think that a proper trashy cougar momma would have a better idea of what she was getting into. She'd recognize what sort of guy he was, and wouldn't be asking such stupid questions.
Trashy Cougar Momma at May 27, 2011 11:15 AM
So, to recap, the answers to her 2 questions are:
No
&
No
Bluejean Baby at May 27, 2011 11:25 AM
Lori M. Says:
“I'm not ready to judge mom as a terrible person...I mean, everybody needs to get some now and then, right?”
And:
“I agree with PirateJo and the other commenters who suggested that the ex is getting revenge on the daughter as well as enjoying a round of bragging with his bros. I just don't see this as more than a revenge-fantasy.”
Really?????
So the mother in your estimation is not all that terrible, she just needed some action and was probably feeling competitive or desperate… but the ex-boy friend is out on a revenge path and bragging about the conquest?
I can’t even wrap my mind around this logic and the reason why is the following… no matter now crappy it is to have sex with a close relative of an ex, the point is that no one actually owes this to ones ex. The very act of breaking up entails that you can now date and sleep with whoever you want (some choices are better than others though).
By contrast, a parent ALWAYS owes it to their children to do right by them and having sex with an ex of theirs is never acceptable.
So in summary, a mother always owes it to her daughter not to have sex with her ex or even men she is currently interested in and trying to establish something with. By contrast, men do not owe it to their exes not to have sex with anyone.
I’m not saying what the guy did was right (in my opinion I would classify it as stupid as opposed to right or wrong), but it is orders of magnitude less offensive than what the mother did (you know... betraying the trust of her daughter). The fact that you are trying to give the mother a free pass here while demonizing the ex boggles my mind.
Reality at May 27, 2011 11:27 AM
"ut yeah, does it HAVE to be the daughter's ex? Blargh. Is it competitiveness or desperation...I don't know. "
It's neither - I'll tell you what it is, it's really ultimately a form of abuse. She KNOWS it is going to hurt her daughter, but she can't help doing it anyway, just like a physical abuser can't help physically abusing. Somewhere in her skull she gets a kick out of the hurt and pain she knows this will cause. I have some female friends who have been raised by "mothers" like this, I know the type.
Can we use this letter to finally put the 'cult of Motherhood' to rest?
Lobster at May 27, 2011 4:49 PM
"By contrast, a parent ALWAYS owes it to their children to do right by them and having sex with an ex of theirs is never acceptable."
Yup, a real mother does not deliberately inflict such hurt on her daughter just for some nookie. The fact that isn't obvious to everyone also boggles my mind.
"one thing led to another" ... "ended up in bed"
These phrases attempt to forcefully self-absolve of responsibility.
"I felt absolutely terrible about what happened, and then my daughter, out of the blue, announced that she's finally over him. In fact, she insisted she is."
Attempted rationalization, but it fails, because the reason she is subconsciously trying to manufacture something of a 'plausible deniability' claim that she actually feels she can keep this a secret (something she doesn't believe deep down), is because she already knows her daughter WILL be hurt regardless of what she says.
"Is there any way I could keep seeing him, and if so, should I tell her?"
What she is hoping is that Amy will give her some kind of 'go-ahead'. This will allow her (in her mind) to again absolve herself from responsibility (because she has a third-party 'OK' of the behavior) that she already knows will lead to hurting her daughter. Look at the wording "any way" - i.e. she is desperately pleading not for a way to go ahead, but pleading for "any way" to get a 'free pass' to go ahead under the purportedly false belief that it won't *really* be her fault when the sh-t hits the fan. She is trying to prepare and line up her excuses. That way it'll just be the 'world' and 'circumstances' that hurt her daughter, not her. At least in her mind.
Lobster at May 27, 2011 5:02 PM
And yes the guy is no doubt a douche, but what he is doing doesn't come near what she is doing. Also he isn't the one writing in to ask 'how can I keep doing this, in order to inflict maximal damage on my daughter'?
Lobster at May 27, 2011 5:03 PM
I wonder if the daughter is laying a trap for her. That is, she already knows or has a good inkling and wants to see what her mother will do. So she puts on a show by bringing up the topic of their breakup and insisting that they won't be seeing each other any longer.
In all likelihood this isn't the first time that the mother has done something like this to her daughter, whether with men or some other betrayal. Theres probably some history here.
It seems crazy to risk losing your daughter over some vicarious incest nookie. And who the he'll wants to sleep with someone if they really felt absolutely horrible about it the first time.
Paulo at May 27, 2011 9:58 PM
If I'm going to make up an email (and thanks, I get piles of them -- no need) I'm going to make one up that sounds less ridiculous.
Amy, I don't think anyone was suggesting that you made this up; the idea was that the LW did, like one of those Yale students that supposedly used to prank Dear Abby. But anyway, you say you authenticated it.
Rex Little at May 27, 2011 11:26 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2011/05/mommy-dirtiest.html#comment-2186327">comment from Rex LittleI'll see if I can find a made-up one from this week. Here it is.
Amy Alkon at May 27, 2011 11:42 PM
Any tips on positions to use?
I'd suggest a front loader, stay away from large loads and bleach
lujlp at May 28, 2011 3:42 AM
I wonder if the ex is the vindictive type. How does she know he isn't going to tell his ex that he boned her mom? How does mom know he hasn't told ex already? Maybe that's why she's finally over him. It's not like she's going to waltz in the door one day and say, "My ex...I am so over him! He just told me he slept with you! Man, he must think I'm totally stupid or something. Imagine! My ex...sleeping with you."
Patrick at May 28, 2011 2:57 PM
I'd suggest a front loader, stay away from large loads and bleach
Nah, luj, top loaders are much better. Load it up with a pillow or a few towels on one side to get a nicely unbalanced side to side vibration during the spin cycle. Make sure it has the old style steel lid, not plastic. A towel or cushion might be helpful. Position should be obvious.
And that's my creepy comment for the day.
Ltw at May 29, 2011 6:33 AM
Sorry didnt realise we were talking about types of machines
lujlp at May 29, 2011 3:18 PM
I had a thought similar to Paulo, that maybe (just maybe) the daughter brought it up out of the blue because she already knows it happened (or could happen) and is tacitly giving her mom the go-ahead.
Not saying it's likely, mind you, but possible.
Treadwell at May 31, 2011 11:28 AM
"...never in my life, even when considerably younger than 25, have I had a girlfriend whose mother I'd have had the slightest interest in sleeping with.
There's one in this town. Daughter works in my area. Mom walked into a conference room with 300+ people in it, and conversation stopped. At once. I thought I'd gone deaf until I saw what people were looking at.
Not all fine women work in Hollywood.
Radwaste at June 2, 2011 4:29 PM
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