Bus Case Scenario
My best friend is a man for whom my feelings continue to grow. He's been stuck chasing his ex-girlfriend who lives four hours away. She sees him once a month for a booty call. I fall asleep thinking about him and daydream about him while on dates with other men. He's acknowledged that if his ex weren't in the picture, he'd explore a relationship with me. Please help.
--Longing
"IF his ex weren't in the picture...!" You can always find your way to an "if." It's fun to vacation in if-land for a moment or two -- like, if I had a TV show, I'd have a cook and a driver and a monkey to massage my feet under my desk. But, I don't have a TV show, and monkeys throw feces. And this guy doesn't want to explore a relationship with you or he'd be doing it instead of driving eight hours in hopes of servicing his ex back into a relationship with him. You can either live your life or sit around if-ing about what could be...his truck gets repossessed, and no bus lines go to ex-girlfriendville, so he looks deep into your general direction and says the words you've been waiting so long to hear: "Can I borrow your car for a coupla days?"
To LW:
Following ages old principle "She who endures wins",
have hope. But try to figure out what exactly draws your dream man to his ex. And then try to demonstrate to him she does not have it anymore.
Good luck.
Mere Mortal at June 14, 2011 6:27 PM
I just added "a monkey to massage my feet under the desk" to my list of things I will get when I am a billionaire. I will use diapers.
Thanks for the suggestion.
David H at June 14, 2011 7:23 PM
The only way this could have been better is if it had some sappy yearning love music accompanying the response, but I don't know how one could do that. Spot on excellent wisdom Amy.
Abersouth at June 14, 2011 9:11 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2011/06/bus-case-scenar.html#comment-2261015">comment from AbersouthThanks so much!
Amy Alkon at June 14, 2011 9:14 PM
He's been stuck chasing his ex-girlfriend who lives four hours away.
Jesus H. Macy. He's not "stuck," LW, he's choosing to chase after his ex. Why are you so into a guy who's expending great time and effort to woo a woman that broke up with him? The "if it weren't for that darned ex, I'd be with you" thing is slightly fishy, too. Was it something he said once in passing and you've held onto for a while, or does he regularly make comments like that? Because in that answer lies the difference between his being oblivious and manipulative.
Amy's right: waiting around for him to decide your company finally outweighs the four-hour drive and mixed messages of his current (ex)relationship is not doing you any favors. And, frankly, it's more likely he'll tire of her, see you sitting by the front door like a labradoodle and use the "Hey, why not?" approach to starting a new relationship. Either take Mere Mortal's advice and be proactive in letting him know you're interested in a relationship or tell him it's not fair for him to treat you as the runner-up who's ready to step in should the elected Queen not fulfill her duties. Either way, stop acting like you're grateful for the Honorable Mention ribbon. If you want any guy, it's best to show you have more going for you than dewy-eyed adoration and low standards for personal treatment.
NumberSix at June 14, 2011 9:18 PM
Oh dear. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. I'm not going to give you any hope either LW.
Obviously he's aware of your feelings for him. So, my serious advice - tell him that if or when he does want to "explore a relationship" to call you. Till then, no contact. Don't put your life on hold in the meantime. It's all very well for him to say "if not for her" (and I agree that doesn't pass the sniff test for me either #6), but let's see if he actually misses you.
Not so serious advice - if he's only getting a booty call once a month, you could always try to outdo her. Get him round, few drinks, seduce him, do all the degrading stuff she won't do for him. Hey, it's a plan.
Ltw at June 14, 2011 11:45 PM
I'm sorry, LW, but I think you're probably going to have to end this friendship or it's just going to hurt you too much. I know that's harsh, but I can't imagine how painful staying friends with this guy has to be. He's just not into you and that's probably not going to change.
Generally, if a guy has a girl in the friend zone, it's tough to move out of it. I think it's because guys only "friend-zone" girls they are not attracted to. They may be friends with a girl they are attracted to, but of course, that's only because he's desperately hoping the girl will suddenly like him back.
If the guy has friend-zoned you, it means he's just not attracted to you and that's not something you can really overcome. I suppose if you've been hanging out with him in sweats all the time, you can try to dress up and flirt and see if you can catch his attention that way, but I assume you've already been trying that, and if so, I think you've done all you can and you need to move on. Find someone who does think your hot and wants to be with you.
It'll be tough to stay friends -- you'll just keep building your feelings and keep getting hurt that he's not reciprocating. And the longer you keep spending energy building feelings for him, you're not making yourself available to meet someone else.
Debbie at June 15, 2011 12:08 AM
So, you're basically saying that everything Taylor Swift sings about is wrong.
Batman at June 15, 2011 2:46 AM
Yep. Taylor's a sweet girl, but reality hasn't slapped her up side the head yet.
When it does, I'd expect her to start singing like Carrie Underwood (don't she got a mean streak though?).
brian at June 15, 2011 6:15 AM
lol. I was thinking Taylor Swift too! Yes, tip: Don't live your life according to country songs, especially those written by 17 yr olds.
lovelysoul at June 15, 2011 6:15 AM
Also - it looks like LW is experiencing Ladder Theory with the genders reversed. Looks like I'm not the only man with two ladders.
brian at June 15, 2011 6:15 AM
LW, repeat after me: Be the butterfly...be the butterfly...be the butterfly!
Because the only way you're going to get this guy to stop chasing his ex is to stop chasing him. Yes, you are. Now stop it. Go on to the next guy, but remember: Be. The. Butterfly.
Flynne at June 15, 2011 7:01 AM
So, you're basically saying that everything Taylor Swift sings about is wrong.
TSwift is NOT wrong. The LW just hasn't tried taking off her GLASSES and showing up to the prom in a beautiful dress yet.
sofar at June 15, 2011 8:21 AM
I agree that unless she's just been seeing him only in sweats and glasses (unlikely since she's crushing on him so badly), he's just not attracted to her and she's firmly in the "friend" category. He probably just said what he said to be nice (and my guess is that it was at her prompting or fishing somehow)
Think about it: he's going 4 hrs out of his way for a bootie call. If he was at all attracted to her, and he knows she likes him, that just wouldn't happen. Guys are creatures of convenience, especially when it comes to sex.
She could try to make herself more attractive to him - evaluate herself objectively. Is she overweight? Then, perhaps, if she shed some pounds, he'd become interested, but if there's nothing obvious like that, then the chemistry just isn't there and never will be.
lovelysoul at June 15, 2011 8:38 AM
LW,
I am in a unique position to give you valuable, yet painful, advice on this very matter. That is because I can relate almost completely to the guy to whom you are enamored.
That is, I have an ex-wife that I am very close with and infrequent booty calls are part of that relationship. I also have this woman who hangs around believing, as does 'Mere Mortal', that persistence is the key. That makes me sound like a douche bag and I suppose there is some truth to that. However, just as the apple of your eye has, I've made it abundantly clear to the hanger on woman that she will never, never be with me for real. I wasn't so callous as to say that "if not for her" thing, and in my case, that wouldn't be true. I'll bet it also isn't true for your friend.
The ex has nothing to do with it. If you were valued in some significant way, the ex would be out of the picture and he and his ex would agree that such further intimate contact would be inappropriate.
I also know, unlike other posters here, from reading between the lines of your letter that your putting out to this guy and probably doing a pretty good job of it. Good on ya.
Here is how men think when this sort of bizarre situation arrises. In regards to you and my hanger on friend, "Well, fuck. She's not a dinner thang, but she's putting out and the sex is good. I've tried in every way possible to get rid of this woman, (to include letting her know that I'm still regularly banging my ex.) but she just won't go away. I've done my bit to absolve any real culpability. Why not keep the most reliable booty call on Earth on speed dial while continuing to absolve myself of responsibility by telling her, each and every time, that what she really wants will never happen?"
Are you in that boat, LW? He's not taking you out to dinner, is he? Do you know any of his friends? Are you a part of his social circle? Is he interested in getting to know your social circle?
You're simply not a "dinner thang" and this guy has told you that, probably repeatedly. You just refuse to listen.
He's made, maybe, his first effort at not being a douche that strings you along for sex, but it probably is not his first effort. If you haven't already, you'll see many more efforts at this and they will become more and more clear and to the point. But alas, you will probably continue to be willfully deaf to plain English.
Oh well, you'll get to continue to sleep with him. For his part, don't blame him too much. After all, sometimes he has an extra beer in the evening and finds himself with a woody that needs attention. You'll be there for him. If you need a meal afterward, expect delivery. Chinese cuisine can be counted on to hit that spot.
Sorry for the long post.
whistleDick at June 15, 2011 8:48 AM
At least the LW is dating other guys. She should spend more time doing that and cut WAY back on her contact with this 'best friend.' She's not going to get past this crush and be able to focus on someone else if she keeps hanging around with him all the time.
Pirate Jo at June 15, 2011 9:33 AM
If you're in the Friend Zone, there's really no way out of it- whether you're male or female. That includes Friends With Benefits, as described by Whistledick.
Husband would tell women, "I don't want a relationship, and if I did, it wouldn't be with you." They'd still stick around, under the illusion that they could change his mind.
It would probably be best for her if she avoided this "best friend" for a while.
ahw at June 15, 2011 10:59 AM
Hey ladies, you can have any man except the one you want. That's because everyone else wants him. He has too many choices. If he does choose you, he won't stay because he gets tempted every day by the others. Sooner or later, he is going to give in. you would too if you were in his position.
ken at June 15, 2011 3:35 PM
LW - you are mistaking a crush for friendship. He is telling you if not for her I would explore something with you? He is either trying to save your feelings or he is a complete jerk trying to get some with you too while not exploring anything other than your inner depths.
At best you will be a friend with benefits, at worst he will tell you he loves you but is not in love with you, for years and years then when he feels he has milked your friendship for everything he can, he dumps you but still wants to be friends.
If a man wants something with a woman he is proud of her, he wants to take her out, she meets his friends, he does things for her, he touches her, he calls her he makes plans she can participate in.
Are you always the one who calls? Are you the one who makes any plans when the two of you hang out? Do you think up things he will like and do them for him without any encouragement from him?
He may be trying to get rid of you, and the only way to find out is to get your own life and not call him for at least 2 months. Mark it on your calendar and stick to it. If he calls you, it means he wants to be friends. Unless he takes you ON A REAL DATE, he only wants to be friends.
If he asks for benefits without taking you on a date, he only wants the benefits and you ma'am are the easiest way to get that he is not exploring anything with you but sex.
Stop crushing on this man and get some new activities that will take you to meet other people. He has made himself pretty plain, move on!
Worthit at June 15, 2011 3:59 PM
If he really wanted to be pursuing a relationship with you, he'd be doing it. Instead he continues to pursue an ex who uses him for her convenience. You're wasting your time waiting around for this guy. Get him out of your life. Now. Accept that this guy doesn't want you and find someone who does.
IsisM at June 16, 2011 4:16 PM
Taylor Swift and Carrie Underwood don't deserve to be called "country singers" til they've live Loretta Lynn or Tammy Wynnette's lives :P
But I digress. Isn't the "soft letdown" wonderful? This so-called best friend doesn't want to come right out and tell this poor girl "no", so he makes the noble sacrifice of driving all the way to his ex's to have sex until the LW gets the point.
Sheesh, give that guy a medal.
Kat at June 16, 2011 11:20 PM
"so he looks deep into your general direction"
great line!
eddie boss at June 18, 2011 5:57 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2011/06/bus-case-scenar.html#comment-2282849">comment from eddie bossThank you -- had fun writing that!
Amy Alkon at June 18, 2011 5:59 PM
whistleDick hit the nail on the head.
Bluejean Baby at June 23, 2011 1:27 PM
"Before that, giving 12 flowers would seem stalkerish."
This is all any of you need to read.
If something was healthy and normal in the not-too-distance past, but NOW it is considered "stalkerish", then current social and female values are sick.
Note she did not write that it was 'corny' or 'old-fashioned' or 'out of date' - No. She described it as 'stalkerish'.
Romance from 1960 is now stalker behavior.
Thus current US society is sick.
Lee Raconteur at July 1, 2011 9:32 PM
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