Jenny From The Blocked
I appreciate that you tell it like it is instead of telling people what they want to hear. I heard you on the radio saying that an online dating site isn't a very good venue for women over 40 who aren't very physically attractive. Honestly, on a scale of 1 to 10, I'm probably a 5. My marriage ended last year, and I'm ready to start dating again. Should I bother with online at all?
--Realistic
Like the 24-year-old part-time model you're competing with on the online dating site, you are female and have owned swimsuits. In fact, you'd wear that same tiny little gold bikini she's got on in her profile pic -- if it were socially acceptable to go out on the town in a little gold sleep mask.
Online dating is like going to a very snobby bar where everybody has the attention span of a firefly. People do find love and even marriage online, but those most likely to get lucky are hot 22-year-old women just looking to get lucky. Hot 40-something women will get dates, but because guys tend to go for younger women, many of those messaging them are one foot out of the nursing home (if they aren't using the computer in the nursing home's Activity Room to troll for younger meat).
The problem for anyone online dating is that the format -- endless choice -- is overwhelming to our quaint little human brains, according to research by social psychologist Dr. Sheena Iyengar. Although we think having loads of options is ideal, when presented with more than a handful, we often choose poorly and are bummed out afterward, or we find ourselves unable to choose at all. So, like a rat pushing a lever for more cocaine, even a man who sincerely wants a relationship and who's just gotten home from a promising date often can't help but make a beeline for the computer. (There's always another one...thousand where that last one came from. No need to stop and smell the 45-year-old roses.)
Especially for women who are over 40 and physically underfabulous, a more fruitful and less confidence-eating option than a dating site is a group meetup site like meetup.com or grubwithus.com, where you sign up for group dinners and other activities with people who share your interests. Some groups have hundreds or thousands of members, and the criterion for joining is whether you, say, like to combine tennis and Bible study, not whether you have a waist the size of a chewed pencil.
Also, online, the risk of humiliation is low for a guy who's a 5 messaging a woman who's a 9.6 (on the off chance she's bored with rich guys with movie-star looks). In person, it becomes clear that he can either go home alone for the rest of his life or go for the more evenly matched. That's when he starts talking to the nice 5 lady on his right -- giving you a chance to sparkle in a way you can't online. But, all the better if you sparkle inside and out. (Get "Staging Your Comeback," by Christopher Hopkins.) A little money smeared around in the hair, wardrobe, and makeup departments can be a powerful thing. Without it, as you see in shots of famous actresses caught sans makeup and groovywear, even some pretty stunning women can end up looking like they've taken a break from picking their pimples in the doublewide to duck into the holler and shoot a squirrel for dinner.
There ARE men with realistic expectations about online dating. Going on a billion dates when what you want is a long-term relationship is exhausting and demoralizing. She should still give online dating a shot but be very clear about what she wants. Also, don't make that the only way you meet people. Use it as one strategy.
MonicaP at December 28, 2012 7:48 PM
Totally agree with MonicaP. My boyfriend and I met online about 3 years ago when we were 51 and 56. It's just one more option for meeting people out of many, and the outcome depends more on how you approach it than the strategy itself. There is something to that candystore mentality Amy mentions - too many glittering options for men to choose from, but the ones who are serious about being in a relationship are there too - just as in non-virtual real life.
After many years and varieties of online dating, I got more efficient by meeting the guy as soon as possible. No phone calls, no endless emailing - just a quick coffee/tea date in public - middle of the day. If that went well, you're into old-fashioned dating mode soon, and if not, best to get it over with rather than emailing for months, deciding you're soulmates, then discover there's no physical chemistry.
I also studied more - lots of reading on dating advice, bought ebooks, learned a lot that applies regardless of whether it's online or not. And I did find that the general male/female dynamics Amy touts worked best such as letting the guy work to pursue me. I stopped shopping for guys - I put my profile out there and let them find me. I ignored the ridiculous ones, politely turned down the genuine, but unattractive ones, clarified a few more dealbreaking questions to the possibilities, then offered to meet.
Meanwhile, use other methods also - ask your friends to think of guys who might be good for you, try meet-ups, join interest groups etc. Don't put all your hopes in one basket - just do whatever you can to get out there, and have fun meeting new people.
AliceInBoulderland at December 29, 2012 1:12 AM
Not all dating sites are like match where it's all trolling through pics to see who's cute.
I met my husband on eharmony and was 45 at the time.
They match you through a psych profile test and send you people they think will be compatible.
Yes, human nature will make us choose the best looking people to try to communicate with, but at least it's out of a group who you are most likely compatible with on some levels.
And you get to pick the age span to a certain extent. The don't match 45 year old men with 20 year old women, though, even if that's what the men think they want.
And I would think by our 40s, we're self-aware enough to know if we are a 5, we probably can't get a 10 but can get a 4-8 we find attractive enough to get to know.
Once you get to know someone and there is chemistry, a 5 can suddenly look like an 8 to you and an 8 can look like a 10.
Personally I think online dating is a good way for the over 40 crowd. It so much easier to find dates when you are 20, whether you are a 5 or 10, but you are also less picky at that stage in life and probably don't even know what you want yet.
By our 40s, we know better and are more realistic about our relationships wants and needs.
It worked for me and I am pretty darn picky.
linny at December 29, 2012 5:20 AM
There are sites geared more for mature adults. Match is not for her, but others might be. There are christian sites, too, if that fits her. The men on those are likely older and more realistic.
Another issue would be to improve that 5. Get physically fit, go to a good hair stylist, spend some time at the Lancolm counter at the mall. Dressing well for one's body makes a huge difference, too. Try on to see what works, and buy on Ebay to save money if she has a limited budget. We all have a set framework from mother nature, but set dressing that framework is important and can make a huge difference.
momof4 at December 29, 2012 8:13 AM
This one is going to get me in trouble.
But the single most important thing a woman over 40 can do in the dating department is to lose weight.
Yeah - I know. I'm carrying too much weight myself. Yeah - I know. Our bodies and metabolisms change in middle age and it makes losing weight harder. (Believe me, I know.) And maintain a slender physique is harder for women than it is for men. I know that, too.
But that's the first criteria for "attractive." "Not fat."
Lamont Cranston at December 29, 2012 9:09 AM
EHarmony's psych profile didn't do much for me, but some have had luck with it. I would recommend using one of the pay sites. The free ones, well, you get what you pay for.
MonicaP at December 29, 2012 10:14 AM
MonicaP-I took the test when I was 40 for eharmony and got zero matches. Then tried it again at 45 and got a lot of matches.
I think I may have been in a bad or unhappy frame of mind the first time I took the test and my results were different that 1st time.
I have spoken to someone who had the same experience-being told there are no matches-and I noticed she came off as very negative and sort of depressed. It made me think about my frame of mind from when I was 40. My mom had just died, I had moved and changed jobs...a lot of upheaval.
I hate to say Lamont may have a point but I think he does. I am a voluptuous girl, always have been. My weight tends to fluctuate. I have a pretty face and a fun personality but when I am thinner I always get all sorts of attention, heavier, not as much. Men are visual creatures...damn them!
linny at December 29, 2012 12:44 PM
Assuming the OP is overweight, if she is unable to lose weight for any variety of reason, especially certain medications that pack on pounds without your input (prednisone, I'm looking at you), then dressing well is essential. Dressing in sloppy or frumpy or in ill-fitting (too tight) clothes never does favors for anyone's body regardless of size; for larger women, it can be devastating. Buy one or two NICE outfits and spend money on them. Don't cheap out and don't buy online unless you already know how that designer fits or have your up-to-date measurements. If you need measurements taken, go to a tailor/dry cleaners, or a large, upscale department store such as Neiman Marcus where they are accustom to taking measurements for clients to have their clothes tailored.
Attitude is another issue. If you think of yourself as "less than" then everyone will agree. And treat you accordingly.
Aspasia at December 30, 2012 10:55 AM
I ditto the remarks about losing weight! I scroll past women who describe their body type as "Average"-- based on the fact that the 'average' American woman is forty pounds obese.
I can also see how difficult it is to choose someone to contact, because so many profiles leaving me asking "Why should I write to this person?"
It works both ways, of course-- it seems as though there's nothing we can write in a profile that won't piss people off.
Most of all, I'd like to send the ladies to a few of the men's forums, such as Nomoremrniceguy-dot-com, so they can get a look at what's going on inside our heads. It might prove illuminating, to see yourselves the way we do.
jefe at December 30, 2012 5:06 PM
Plus, I'd love to meet ONE woman whose life isn't a hot, dripping mess!
jefe at December 30, 2012 5:15 PM
Wow women's lives are a hot dripping mess, older women should think about losing weight.
I am a woman over 50 who is in shape, does outdoor activities that would terrify most men in their 30's. Most men my age like to sit on the couch and watch team sports. I joined several outdoors clubs, some environmental groups, some meet-ups and a couple of dating sites. Men my age osn dating site asked for dates because they thought I was 15 to 20 years younger (sunscreen is wonderful). However they had beer bellies, ugly beards, hair that had not been combed, and sometimes stains on their clothing. Their photos were usually at least 10 years old if not 20. One man was in his 80's yet his photos were all from his early 40's. If you are going to go on the dating site route, have professional but very recent photos taken, have a few photos of you doing what you like to do. Then be picky and always meet them in daylight, unless you really like them do not see them again.
Better to meet people are meetups, clubs of activities you like joint interests can be a good thing. Am I married? Nope, I think I am finding I like living alone and just dating. The man I am with, he likes having his own place too.
We are both happy together and apart.
Worthita at December 30, 2012 8:39 PM
Looks are all well and good, but even a 40 year old 8, will be unable to compete with a 20 year old 5 on a sexual attractiveness basis, and if a man is looking for someone to grow old with, looks are less important than health and attitude.
Generally healty women are attractive. Addition to alchohol and cigarettes makes almost everyone look like crap. (and it won't matter how thin you are)
The important thing about being older and looking for a man, is having something to offer that a man likes. If you are kind, well read, and share some interests with men, you will do well with the sort of man who appreciates those qualities.
The 40 year old man who is looking for a pair of double d's on a 22 year old, is probably not looking for committment anyway.
If you were a bitch when you were 25, and could get away with it because you were hot, when you are 45, and still a bitch (or an idiot) it won't go over as well.
Isab at December 30, 2012 9:34 PM
Looks are all well and good, but even a 40 year old 8, will be unable to compete with a 20 year old 5 on a sexual attractiveness basis, and if a man is looking for someone to grow old with, looks are less important than health and attitude.
Generally healty women are attractive. Addition to alchohol and cigarettes makes almost everyone look like crap. (and it won't matter how thin you are)
The important thing about being older and looking for a man, is having something to offer that a man likes. If you are kind, well read, and share some interests with men, you will do well with the sort of man who appreciates those qualities.
The 40 year old man who is looking for a pair of double d's on a 22 year old, is probably not looking for committment anyway.
If you were a bitch when you were 25, and could get away with it because you were hot, when you are 45, and still a bitch (or an idiot) it won't go over as well.
Isab at December 30, 2012 9:34 PM
I totally agree with Amy's comment about "endless choice", I believe that is an illusion/delusion that internet dating sites tap into. Women get the illusion that they will find Prince Charming while in their robe & slippers. Men get the illusion of easy access to a huge harem of eager women, all for the low-low price of $19.99 a month. It's the 3-card monty of relationships, promises easy success but in the end it's a fraud. Sure, good things sometimes happen, but I believe it to be the rare exception. The Meetup.com route has been good for me, I'm out doing something I enjoy with other people. My "best side" is showing then, which is important for this socially-awkward introvert.
bkmale at December 31, 2012 10:38 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2012/12/jenny-from-the.html#comment-3536820">comment from bkmaleWhen I'm nervous, I show off and talk way too much, way too fast. I did some online dating when I was still dating but I would have been at my best in a group where I could act more like a person than a self-conscious psycho on too much coffee (which is my guess at how I can come off).
Amy Alkon at December 31, 2012 10:41 AM
Amy, you sound exactly like me, in social situations that are new to me, I am talking a mile a minute.
I am a planner, and if every last detail of a trip is not planned out, I am nail biting, hair twisting nervous.
I have been known to be nervous to the point of throwing up, if someone backs out of a planned car pool for a long trip.
Fortunately, men are used to women who talk a lot. We are verbal creatures.
Your dating style needs to be one that makes a good first impression, and keeps you calm what ever method you choose to meet other people.
Isab at December 31, 2012 11:11 AM
If you can manage your expectations and keep a thick skin, and you have something to offer other than your looks, take the online plunge. As other commenters have noted, a sizable subset, probably a majority, of guys on online dating sites will reject you flat out for your age and attractiveness. The remainder will include a lot of guys who you think are below your standards of attractiveness and intelligence. But you only need one match. And if you have unusual interests or an unusual job that might attract a guy, online dating sites can be a good place to find a match.
But speaking as a fairly unattractive guy who's done well on online dating sites (met my wife on OKCupid!), and was willing to look beyond looks, the key is to make your profile unique. Everyone likes to travel and eat good food, everyone thinks they're kind and caring, and everyone thinks they have a good sense of humor. If you can't come up with anything interesting to say about yourself, and you aren't "hot," you probably won't do well in online dating.
Brian at December 31, 2012 1:16 PM
linny: Men are visual creatures...damn them!
Yes, men are visual creatures, but so are women. As just one of many examples, look at what AliceInBoulderland wrote above: "I [...] politely turned down the genuine, but unattractive ones..."
Looks likely do matter more to men than they do to women, but that does not mean that men are visual and women aren't.
JD at December 31, 2012 3:56 PM
"Men my age .. had beer bellies, ugly beards, hair that had not been combed, and sometimes stains on their clothing."
I think most men and women could do well to look after themselves a bit better. Overweight older women should lose weight AND men should lose their beer bellies - these are not mutually exclusive.
Actually I had been wondering about this, it seems a bit odd to me that I seldom hear women complain about beer bellies, do women just not mind them so much? I think they look disgusting.
Lobster at January 2, 2013 7:14 AM
Brian brings up a good point: unless youre dating for the dating's sake, when it comes down to it you only need/want one genuine match. And while being attractive will get you a lot of messages, dates, and matches on an online dating sites (as in real life), its not necessarily an advantage in finding "the one." In fact, it may even be a disadvantage, since it mean you'll be inundated with messages from people who have nothing in common with you beyond finding you hot. The other column with the LW who constantly received messages from men with kids despite stating clearly that she didn't like children is a perfect example. Sure more messages means a higher probability of hearing from your soul mate, but it also means a higher chance of that message getting buried in all the spam.
Shannon at January 2, 2013 4:37 PM
JD: I totally agree about women also being visual, but not as much as men. Hey, I sent my list of questions to my husband because I thought he was hot. I didn't send my questions to ugly guys.
I do think men are more visual, tho and less accepting of a few extra pounds, etc.
Linny at January 4, 2013 1:47 PM
Linny, I agree with you that men are likely more visual than women. I just see the "men are visual" thing often being presented as if men are that way but women aren't. I really don't think there's that big of a difference between the importance of looks to men and women.
JD at January 8, 2013 6:23 PM
My wife and I met through Single Book Lovers club. We've been married 28 years. Back when we met, it was strictly by mail. Now it's online, just google it. Profiles are based on what books people like.
Ken_in_SC (@Ken_in_SC) at January 9, 2013 12:18 PM
I'm 54 and look great, so I expect the same from any guys that I date. I don't care how old they are, I judge them on a case by case basis.
I spent a lot of time on the dating websites, and the one thing I found which nobody has mentioned yet, is that a lot of the guys are just searching for a piece on the side, they are already either married or in a relationship. You have to be cautious and take things slowly to make sure they're actually available.
I had a few phone calls from jealous wives and these were with guys I only met for a coffee and wasn't interested in anyways. The wives got a hold of the guys cell phone and started calling all the numbers.
I go to Meetup now, because I just want to socialize and have fun. Most of the attendees at these events are women anyways, so it's a great place to make new female friends.
Chrissy at February 19, 2013 1:23 PM
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