Spawn Juan
I'm a woman whose online dating profile states: "If you have or want kids, we are NOT compatible. Move on. Non-negotiable! I don't care if you think your kids are different. They're not." Yet, somehow, men with kids read this and still ping me! Are they stupidly optimistic? Horrifically lacking in reading comprehension?
--Nobody's Stepmom
Maybe they're hoping it'll be like getting a 6-year-old to eat his green beans: They'll just pour some ranch dressing on the kid and you'll suddenly find him appealing.
Your irritation is understandable. What about "No kids/non-negotiable!" says, "Octodad, I've been waiting all my life for you"? The answer is, you're hot. I'm guessing you are, anyway. In the face of female hotitude, men have an incredible capacity to rationalize: "Shouldn't have to miss out on a babe just because I got some girl pregnant in high school!" or "You'll change your mind when you see what a sexy beast I am." Consider the annoyance an attractiveness tax, and try to focus on the joys of unparenthood, like how you can spend the estimated $200K you're saving (by not having kids) on white carpet, sharp-edged furniture, and homeschooling your cat.
Consider the annoyance an attractiveness tax
Great way to put it, Amy.
I'm reminded of that letter about a month ago from the woman complaining about men trying to talk to her in the grocery store. Chances are she's also attractive and when you're an attractive woman, getting a lot of attention from guys -- including guys who ignore your "Non-negotiable!" statements -- is going to happen.
JD at December 28, 2012 5:15 PM
Some people live in a movie fantasy: childfree woman meets the right kid/man combo and her cold, icy heart melts under the glare of the cuteness. She realizes what she's been missing all her life and they live happily ever after.
MonicaP at December 28, 2012 7:42 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2012/12/spawn-juan.html#comment-3533782">comment from MonicaPGregg and I, with some frequency, note how glad we are that we didn't want -- or have -- kids. (We sometimes visit them for an hour or so -- at my neighbors'.)
Amy Alkon at December 28, 2012 8:05 PM
LOL - attractiveness tax!
I think your strongly worded profile makes you even more irresistible to incompatible men for 2 reasons: it sets up a big challenge for them, and men adore women who know what they want and are willing to be 'bitchy' about it.
So because of this gender difference in how we're attracted to the opposite sex, you might try rewording your profile. Maybe a softer disclaimer at the end such as: Please be aware that I'm seriously not interested in raising children, so will not be responding to anyone with or wanting any.
That clears you from any expectations of a response to clueless hopefuls, without getting them riled up for the challenge. It won't stop the attractiveness tax - but nothing you say will do that anyway!
AliceInBoulderland at December 29, 2012 2:04 AM
Why is it the moment a woman writes to Amy about unwanted male attention, it's *assumed* (and this time by Amy herself!) that it's because the woman is gorgeous?
"Never assume, because you'll make..." as they say.
Yes, humans shop with their eyes...let's not be naive. But if you flip this line of thinking on its head, it sounds like plain women don't get to say "no" -- they're lucky any man talks to them at all.
Hey, maybe LW is indeed a dish and Amy is 110% correct. But jumping to that (and only that) conclusion is lazy and sounds like blaming-the-victim.
But that's okay if the victim's a pretty woman and says no a lot...?
spork at December 29, 2012 5:23 AM
Back in the days before I met my husband (on a dating site I mentioned in a post on the other column about this same subject) I was on match and had this same issue.
I was about 40 and still was hoping to have a child. My profile said something to the effect of- "I want a child, if you do not want a child in the next couple of years, do not contact me because I want a child" I got a zillion guys who said they either did not ever want a child or had kids and were done. Or only wanted to be my sperm donor!
And, yes, I was attractive. I think they looked at the picture and my stats(5'7", voluptuous, 40ish, etc) and did not read anything further.
It's like men could only look at the pictures on the menu but not the description of the meal...oh wait, is this pork? I thought it looked like chicken! I can't eat pork....
Linny at December 29, 2012 5:30 AM
Oh, this is so obvious. And no, there's nothing she can do about it, other than drop out of online dating.
She's hot, or has at least posted a picture that makes her look hot.
Lemme 'splain something about men and hot women. It's like that old Tom Hanks movie where he's trapped in an airport, unable to leave the building. The immigration lady asks him why he comes in every day when the answer is always "denied."
His response is along the lines of "Today, you might be in good mood. Tomorrow, you might pick up wrong stamp. The next day, rules might change. And it costs me nothing to fill out form."
The woman who fills out an online profile that says "No, children. NEVER EVER EVER! I had my tubes tied and then burned them in the hospital parking lot. No, I really mean it" still might have changed her mind. "My" theoretical kids might be exceptional. She might be particularly lonely this week. And it costs "me" nothing to ping her on an online dating site. So "I" do.
Spork - Victim? She's hardly a victim. She hasn't been assaulted and her house hasn't been burned down. She gets contacts from guys she's not interested in. This is always going to happen. Online dating makes it worse because there's no public humiliation in being shot down.
Rather like the lady last week who was annoyed that guys approach her at the organic grocery where she shops. She's not annoyed that guys approcher her at the grocery store. She's annoyed that guys she's NOT interested in are approaching her at the grocery store. If Brad Pitt or George Clooney approached her over the arugula, do you think she's find it annoying? I'm somehow doubting it.
The way to have men quit approaching you is to not be hot. A friend of mine got divorced in her late 40's and tried online dating for awhile. Like the LW, 95% of the pings she got were incompatible. She eventually gave up online dating. Couldn't stand the hotness tax.
Lamont Cranston at December 29, 2012 8:41 AM
I was on match for a bit (I never tried the others). I'm pretty sure that a lot of men don't read the profiles, or don't care. On the one hand, I understand. There's a lot of the same regurgitated nonsense written in profile after profile. Best to meet in person to find out who he /she really is. On the other hand, I shook my head on several occasions when I read the profiles of men who contacted me, as their profile was chock full of why their children were the most important part of their lives and my profile clearly stated I don't have, nor do I want kids.
Meloni at December 29, 2012 9:16 AM
I've been firmly in the "no kids" camp for as long as I can remember, and this never stopped guys in real life from pursuing me. They believed I'd fall in love and change my mind. I'm 37 now and people still love to tell me I'll change my mind.
(I have no maternal instinct. None. As a child I played with dolls, but I pretended I was the lady who ran the orphanage. They weren't "mine.")
I married my ex-husband with a "no kids" agreement, and we split when he admitted he'd changed his mind. Once back on the market, I was chased by child-wanting male friends who KNEW my deal...
Insufficient Poison at December 29, 2012 9:17 AM
In my experience men have an uncanny ability to forget they have a wife and kid(s).
zapf at December 29, 2012 10:44 AM
Speaking of kids, and this is slightly off topic...
We flew with our 2 kids for the first time this last week (the 6 year old had flow 4 years ago, but that's it).
The people in front of them didn't realize there were kids behind them until they stood up to get off the plane. Got some nice compliments. :)
Shannon M. Howell at December 30, 2012 2:20 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2012/12/spawn-juan.html#comment-3536080">comment from Shannon M. HowellWow - the kind of parent I always compliment. How nice.
Amy Alkon at December 30, 2012 3:01 PM
It's ironic how often men get bashed for not wanting to date single moms-- "Don't you want a ready-made family?" Uh, not when their sperm donors are prison felons...
jefe at December 30, 2012 5:11 PM
I had the same problem when I first divorced, not that they wanted me to bear children with them but they had divorced the second young "Trophy" who after a couple of kids dumped them and a couple dumped the kids too when they found a younger richer man to marry. These men were looking for a woman to help them raise their small children who were the same age as the Grandchildren from their first family. What about "Children should be raised and on their own like mine are." did they not understand? I am not particularly hot, I am probably around a 6 or 7, 7 is probably stretching it.
If a man sees a type he likes, he will go after her. Period. If she has some exciting hobbies that he is interested in, he will convince himself she will want him not matter what she has said.
Worthita at December 30, 2012 8:53 PM
This. Happened to me when i was single. Not about kids but other stuff i would say i didnt like. Theyd be all i know you dont like xyz but you should give me a shot anyways. I never did.
Nicolek at December 31, 2012 5:31 AM
Sorry bout the weird puncruAtion am on iphone and bad at it. Anyhow i am not superhot but apparently i qas to thise guys. I dont think amy is aayibg this lady must be a ten
Omg i suck at yhis bear with me
Anyhow she apparently IS attractive at least to those guys
Nicolel at December 31, 2012 5:36 AM
Why is it the moment a woman writes to Amy about unwanted male attention, it's *assumed* (and this time by Amy herself!) that it's because the woman is gorgeous?
Yes, humans shop with their eyes...let's not be naive. But if you flip this line of thinking on its head, it sounds like plain women don't get to say "no" -- they're lucky any man talks to them at all.
Spork, if attractive women get a lot of male attention (both wanted and unwanted), it doesn't follow that plain women don't get any male attention. What seems likely is: the more desirable a person (male or female) is, the more attention they get.
JD at December 31, 2012 4:18 PM
I think a lot of people just want what they can't have.
Lobster at January 2, 2013 7:15 AM
Although women want the online dating game to be specific to them, the way it is designed, it is and always will be a numbers game.
A guy looks at your picts, and scans what you wrote (not reads that takes too long)and sees if no red flags or there are some good things. He then sends out a ping or a message.
All done in 5 minutes so he can ping or message 8-20 other women that night. Knowing that maybe 1 will ping /message him back.
Short answer, if a regular guy can't reasonably get a phone number/ meet/ date out of online dating every week he will stop going there. Guys know maybe 10% will write them back, and of those maybe 10% will eventually lead to a phone # or meeting. So don't expect him to spend hours reading and analizing what you wrote till after you write him back and go into the 10% pile.
Especially considering how much of what men and women put on dating sites is lies. Be it 10 yr and 40 lbs ago pictures, or heights and salaries that are inflated by a lot.
Joe J at January 2, 2013 9:56 AM
I would say that there are a lot of guys online dating who want casual sex, and guys looking for casual sex don't care whether you want kids. In fact they might see you as a better bet for casual sex with less potential fallout than a woman who wants kids (ie a woman who wants a relationship in which to have kids.)
Lisa at January 9, 2013 2:14 PM
I'm in the LW's boat exactly, but my reaction's slightly different. Hey, if some idiot who clearly can't read wants to message me, I can just delete/block him; no biggie. I just have to wonder about any person w/kids who thinks that going after someone who is lukewarm at best and hostile at worst *towards their own children* is great partner material. Great, you've just established that you're an asshole who couldn't care less about the well being of your kids when it comes to snagging a piece of ass. That must be a hell of a stand-up human being right there.
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