Wait Lifting
I'm a 37-year-old woman, and I've always been quick to have sex, but I'm trying to just "date" first. Well, I've been on five dates with this one guy, and all we've done is kiss. Now I'm beginning to think that he isn't attracted to me or is put off by my past, which, unfortunately, I was honest about.
--Dismayed
Try to think of this as artisanal dating. Maybe he's finished building the bed out of antique Popsicle sticks but his carpal tunnel kicked in while he was killing the flock of ducks for the mattress or spinning the cotton for the sheets.
If that sounds like a stretch, well, it's no more of one than your notion -- that the guy's gone out with you five times because he finds you repellant or stays up nights picturing your sexual past (complete with barricades and rent-a-cops for crowd control). Do you think he's enrolled in some underground rewards program, like you go out with a woman six times and you get a complimentary latte or maybe an iTunes gift card?
Evolutionary psychologists David Buss and David Schmitt point out that "human mating is inherently strategic." Genetically, they explain, it's generally in a man's best interest to pursue a "short-term sexual strategy." (Scientific journals and tenure committees frown on terms like "hit it and quit it.") Basically, a man can limit his participation in sex to the fun part and still pass on his genes. Women coevolved to expect men to try for this sort of limited participation (so your bewilderment at his crossed legs isn't exactly surprising). But a man can come to a point where a "long-term sexual strategy" becomes wiser, and it's generally when he's serious about finding a partner and not just a sex partner for the evening.
Note that the guy keeps coming to pick you up, and not because he is an Uber driver or is being held at gunpoint by your mother. You could say something to him -- maybe "Hey, I was really hoping you'd take me home one of these nights." This may be the nudge he needs to make a move -- or at least tell you what's up. And sure, it is within the realm of possibility that he has ED, an STD, low sexual desire, or a seriously small penis and is waiting until you're emotionally attached to break out the news. But it's also possible that you aren't the only woman he's seeing and he's trying to be adult about it, meaning that he's learned that many women get emotionally attached after sex. Sleeping with two women is a good way to end up with a girlfriend -- and one would-be girlfriend in the bushes with ricin-tipped blow darts or at least searching Yelp for the best-rated local assassins.
The first sentence:
> I'm a 37-year-old woman, and I've always been
> quick to have sex, but I'm trying to just "date" first.
fits Rollo Tomassi's "Epiphany Phase" to a T:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/12/19/the-epiphany-phase/
Snoopy at October 6, 2015 5:21 PM
Snoopy got to it first, "born-again virgin" having trouble navigating with new Moral Compass 2.0TM. And blaming the man for not bustin' a move when she's said she wants to go slow, yeah that's classy.
bkmale at October 7, 2015 8:04 AM
"my past, which, unfortunately,I was honest about."
and "I'm trying to just "date" first."
Lead me to guess she said something like, "I really want to WAIT till we are serious to have sex and NOT rush in", and she is offended when a guy is actually doing exactly that, by waiting 5 whole dates.
Joe J at October 7, 2015 12:20 PM
LW, did you tell this guy that you wanted to take it slow? If so, that's probably why he hasn't made a move. When I was about your age, I was dating a woman who told me that. We kept it at kissing until the night when, after we broke off a kiss, she stood up, took me by the hand, and led me to the bedroom.
Rex Little at October 7, 2015 12:31 PM
Well don't tell him about your past, and don't tell him about your plans to wait.
Just wait.
I don't get why she's talking about being "honest" about her past, when for the most part her sexual past is none of his business.
Pirate Jo at October 7, 2015 3:44 PM
she's got rules... and obviously boya hasn't a clue as to what they are... cuz reasons.
oh, yeah, he can't read her mind.
Um, well sista, this might be a guy who is trying to go the speed you SAID you wanted to go, and it's makin' you antsy.
Or, it's possible that this is his speed, and he's waiting for a better clue from you. As RexL said above, maybe you need a better hint, like asking if he know how to undo a bra with one hand... or sure just lead him to you your room...
If he hasn't ghosted you, and there aren't any other problems, congratulations, he is patient. Maybe for reason, maybe not.
Once upon a time, I eventually made that move, and later got a sort of: "why did you wait so long?!?"
Was there a way I could have known, when it WASN'T being communicated to me?
I suppose I could have stolen that base, but I'm not the type...
So yeah. Communicate. It's astonishing what it can lead to.
SwissArmyD at October 7, 2015 6:01 PM
LW expects boya to put the moves on her because that's what she's used to. That's the kind of guys she's been dating. Now she's confused. Understandable. But LW, you have to change your mindset. You've decided you are going to pursue a higher class of guy, which is good. But for it to work, you yourself have to get into the higher-class frame of mind. That doesn't mean you have to remain celibate, but it does mean you have to adjust your vision of what a man should be like and how he should treat you.
(BTW: "I've put out for every guy in town but I'm not going to put out for you" is not a successful dating strategy. I know you didn't mean it like that, but if you aren't careful, that's how it comes across.)
A story: When my now-wife of 20 years and I met, we got pretty hot and heavy on our first date. She wanted to have sex. I was the one who said no. I just didn't want to do it on the first date, because I thought it was going to be special and I didn't want to give her the impression that I was that kind of guy. She says today that that was the first place where I really earned her respect. (The second date was a completely different story... every room in the house...)
Cousin Dave at October 8, 2015 9:14 AM
"So this guy I'm dating is taking it slow, exactly as I asked, and I'm not happy about it . . . because I think he doing it as part of some Machiavellian plot to get back of me for not screwing him in the car after our first date like I did for every guy I dated before this one, which I told him about."
Soooooooooo may issues. Stop plying mind games with this guy and yourself.
Seriously, why the hell would you tell a guy you wont sleep with him and the explain how you slept with everyone else?
Men are easy, relatively, if we dont want you we dont go out with you.
lujlp at October 8, 2015 10:15 PM
LW needs Nick Savoy's dating guide for women "It's Your Move".
jefe at October 13, 2015 8:23 PM
Really, what conclusions might he able to draw from this?
1) She isn't sexually attracted to him.
2) She is punishing him for the sins of daters past.
3) She has suddenly put a high value on something she never valued before with appropriate price increases. Or to put it another way, suddenly he is asked to pay more for milk past it's expiration date. That works for cheese and wine and they are kept in their CASKS, not opened to all comers from the get go.
She sent the signals, she set the metrics, she is not being communicative, so of course it's his fault!
My guess (which is worth what you paid for it), he is boredom dating her: doing something social with someone that he isn't really interested in until he can find someone better.
For myself, being told that *I* am suddenly not good enough to have sex with when she used to give it out like candy on Halloween would sit very badly with me. It means she is either not selecting me as a lover, or she has suddenly put sex WAY down her priority list (except she really hasn't).
How lucky of me to meet her NOW instead of when she was fun!
Granted: I get the cleft stick she is in. She tried...um...friendlier ways to create a relationship before and it didn't work out. She is trying a new way...and no matter what, her past is raising it's ugly head. IF she hid the truth, she is a liar and if she tells him, she might kill his interest. Not a good place for her to be.
She had absolutely no trouble communicating things she probably should have waited communicating. Now she needs to be JUST as communicative about how she has changed her mind about waiting. Five dates is nothing as a 'wait' period. I can't speak for women, but I doubt a lot of them have sex earlier than around that in normal circumstances, much less when they are 'wait listing' a guy.
Restaurants have those little vibrating glowing coasters for when your table is ready. Maybe she should try one of them.
FIDO at October 13, 2015 10:41 PM
This was so helpful to me. Thank you for some much needed perspective.
Jk at October 21, 2015 9:29 PM
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