A Man Walks Into A Barnacle
I'm a 43-year-old man, and I'm trying to build my career after years of being a stay-at-home dad. I got involved very quickly with a woman I met online, but the truth is that she's just not smart enough for me. I feel bad because she's very sweet, but I'd rather devote my time to my work. I've tried to break up with her numerous times, but she just doesn't seem to get it. I'll tell her I really need time to myself, but she'll still call incessantly. How do you tell somebody it's over in a way that is kind but gets through to them?
--I'm Done
You need "time to yourself"? Great. She can do that. Just call her when you're ready. No, not on the phone. She'll be out on your porch in her sleeping bag.
Welcome to the rose-colored distorto-vision of being "optimistically biased" -- succumbing to the human tendency to see what's positive instead of what's realistic. ("What I refuse to believe won't hurt me!") We're especially likely to go happily dumb when our ego is involved. Evolutionary biologist Robert Trivers explains in "The Folly of Fools" that we "protect our happiness via self-deception." We have a "psychological immune system" that works "not by fixing what makes us unhappy but by ... minimizing it and lying about it."
Neuroscientist Tali Sharot finds from her brain imaging research that having a distortedly positive view comes out of what she calls "selective updating." When our brain gets information that things are going to be better than expected, it's all, "Yes, sir, we'll send that around." But information that things will be worse than expected? That gets kicked under the bed -- or would if the brain had feet and slept in a bed.
There is another possibility here. Even if your girlfriend's intelligence level leaves you confused about whether to take her to dinner or just water her and put her in indirect sunlight, she may be what I call instinctually smart. Possibly, it's clear to her that you want to end it but she's ignoring that in hopes of wearing you down. Regardless of the reason she's still hanging around, the only way to change that is by telling her that you two are done, using very direct language, like, "I'm sorry, but it's over between us. I am breaking up with you." Should she keep contacting you, make it similarly clear that there's no room at the inn for hope.
This is actually the kind way to break up with a refuse-to-believe-er -- being momentarily cruel, ideally as soon as you realize it's over. In other words, putting your girlfriend out of her misery starts with putting her through it -- pronto. Keep merely hinting that it's over and, well, if an asteroid destroyed life on earth as we know it, three things would survive: cockroaches, the Kardashians, and your relationship.
We are assuming this guy is now single, right? He said something about years as a stay at home dad.
(Hello Fatal Attraction! Rabbit stew anyone?)
Kathleen A OBrien at January 27, 2016 7:01 AM
Yeah, that wasn't clear to me either. Is he stepping out? Or has his marriage ended and he's trying to get back into the dating scene? I'll be charitable and assume the latter until told otherwise.
So, it seems petty to drop someone because of one specific trait. On the other hand, attraction is what it is. (And that goes for both sexes.) If you find low intelligence intolerable in a mate, then you need to go find someone else that meets your criteria. (And you need to make it clear to your current GF that this is a breakup -- not "I need time to myself", it's "we're done". You owe it to her to be honest so that she is freed to go find someone else who actually desires her.) The thing you want to watch out for is that you build a list of deal-breakers so extensive that no one can pass all the filters. If you do that, you have no one to blame but yourself when you wind up lonely.
Cousin Dave at January 27, 2016 7:50 AM
"I've tried to break up with her numerous times, but she just doesn't seem to get it."
It definitely works better the night before rather than the morning after.
Bob in Texas at January 27, 2016 12:31 PM
If you find a sweet girl, hold on to her, whether she's smart or not. These girls are gold. Send her my way.
Sounds like he doesn't have the stones to actually break up with her, shame. Of course she doesn't think you've broken up with her, because you haven't - duh. Most people consider a relationship over when the other person utters words along the lines of, 'I'm breaking up with you'. Yes, it's difficult to tell this to someone, especially when you know they like you. But leaving them hanging on while you hope they 'get the hint', so that you can play 'outta sight outta mind, maybe if I can't see her she's not suffering', seems a bit cruel, she's wasting time in limbo, wondering if you're coming back or not after you'd 'had a bit of time to yourself'. She may already suspect, or may hope you'll change your mind etc.
Lobster at January 27, 2016 1:01 PM
I think low intelligence is intolerable for anyone. It's just a matter of getting low enough.
Patrick at January 28, 2016 1:10 AM
I think it depends on their personality. E.g. a person with low-intelligence who still has opinions on everything (even topics they're clueless about), but thinks their ignorant opinions matter a great deal because 'everyone's entitled to their opinion', will be annoying (these types tend to be liberals). But a woman with low intelligence who is aware of what she does and doesn't know, and so doesn't try to have opinions on everything, can be quite endearing if she has other strengths.
I used to think intelligence was a crucial attribute of a partner. But as I've gotten older, at the end of the proverbial day, I don't really care if I can have (say) an in-depth political discussion on individual rights with her ... that's what my nerdy guy friends are for ... I mostly just want a partner who treats me well, is offering love and intimacy, and is honest.
Lobster at January 28, 2016 12:46 PM
no one likes rejection - neither the rejector nor the rejectee, but it is a reality of everyday life. if one of your deal breakers is intelligence (which it sounds like it is) then best to be firm yet gentle with her - believe it or not - she will respect you much more than continuing to beat around the bush. the best way out of this, I think, would be to let her know that you think she's really great, but that you just don't feel the chemistry is there. Chemistry is something that is neither quantitive nor qualitative and varies from person-to-person. you can't define chemistry because it is different for all of us, and if it isn't there, then it isn't there. you can't change anything that will magically make chemistry appear.
yentabOSS at January 28, 2016 9:07 PM
If low intelligence was important to LW he would not gotten "involved very quickly with a woman I met online".
I do not see how can a person "hide" low intelligence in numerous online conversations. (Unless you were not looking.)
Guessing that like most males he "got involved" and then decided she just was not "IT" even as a casual friend.
Most of us have BTDT on either side and came to (or was told) that once (or twice) was enough and simply discontinued "being involved".
This query to me speaks more of a guilty conscience for creating a false relationship than for an inability to "break" up a 'relationship' because she is too dense.
(He can't say "Not tonight." or be too busy that weekend?)
I also agree w/lobster. He is missing the boat on a something important but that is how "wisdom" is acquired.
Bob Darr at January 29, 2016 6:28 AM
I've tried to break up with her numerous times, but she just doesn't seem to get it. I'll tell her I really need time to myself, but she'll still call incessantly. How do you tell somebody it's over in a way that is kind but gets through to them?
I get the impression she doesn't seem to get it because you've never been clear with her, and you've never been clear with her because you view that as being unkind. I get the impression that, to you, kindness in breaking up means using euphenisms.
When you break up with someone -- when you make it clear to them you're not interested in having a relationship with them, ever -- and they don't want to break up, it's going to be hurtful to them. There's just no way around it. It's like someone in ISIS explaining to a hostage that they're going to be beheaded. No matter how kindly the ISIS person presents it, when they make it clear to the hostage they're going to have their head chopped off, the hostage isn't going to like the news.
JD at January 31, 2016 11:42 AM
Lobster: I used to think intelligence was a crucial attribute of a partner. But as I've gotten older, at the end of the proverbial day, I don't really care if I can have (say) an in-depth political discussion on individual rights with her ... that's what my nerdy guy friends are for ... I mostly just want a partner who treats me well, is offering love and intimacy, and is honest.
Lobster, you make not view a "rocket-science" level (or even an in-depth-political-discussion-on-individual-rights level) of intelligence as crucial but some level of intelligence is crucial to you, isn't it?
JD at January 31, 2016 11:52 AM
may not, not make not.
JD at January 31, 2016 11:58 AM
JD, not jumping into your question in lobster's answer but it is an interesting question in particular (to me) if there are only two of you in the relationship, and perhaps depends on how stressful your life is.
It is a HUGE thing to have a loving caring spouse when life is stressful. Having kids involved also cuts down on 'adult' discussions after a day at work.
If your wife wants to debate Trump vs. Sanders and you've been chewed out at work, just dropped Johnny off at soccer, and are hungry, good luck.
I am also skeptical of those that have "high" intelligence and end up w/those that don't. (Birds of a feather or deaf and dumb.)
Bob in Texas at January 31, 2016 5:04 PM
Bob, I hadn't really thought about it like that, but what you say makes some sense. I own and run a business, am busy trying to start a second business, and we have two kids ... so yes, I have a huge amount of stress and so firstly the last thing I want to worry about is e.g. things like housekeeping minutiae, and secondly in the small amount of 'downtime' I have, I just want to really feel 'taken care of'; not sure exactly how to explain that. The more 'taken care of' I feel (emotionally and physically), the more I can focus on bringing in money and growing the business, that's how I see it.
I also really want my kids to feel loved and taken care of etc. (as I didn't have that growing up), so not really looking for some ambitious career-woman, rather, someone with more 'traditional' views on marriage (i.e. the complete opposite of today's 'never do anything to please a man' ball-busters) ... women like this don't seem to exist anymore in the West.
Obviously there's a certain minimum baseline intelligence, e.g. she needs to be able to tie her shoes etc., but that's a given.
Lobster at February 1, 2016 12:53 PM
Lobster, I think you are dead on.
My first mate believed our marriage was a mistake from her point of view.
So for me finding a second mate that could help raise my son and NEEDED me to help her do the same for her kids turned out (gradually) to be the biggest 'filter' in the dating pool.
Money, professional status, education (college level), and so on were not the key. My recently divorced status (poor), being snipped (BTDT), and being a father also weeded me out of many potential mates (a good thing as I started applying that filter in reverse to save time and money).
Bottom line is I met a self-employed single mother of two that was my opposite (very upbeat, kinda of clueless ("yes that noise is my transmission, why") and she LIKED me. I knew she also needed me.
So we took a whack at it and it mostly worked/works. Any problems over the years were due to life, aging, Mars/Venice stuff, and so on.
Our differences in education did not have time to get in the way.
Respect, like as a person, desire (at least initially verses lust), enjoy simple things together (movie and popcorn) are absolute treasures in a difficult stressful world.
IQ is simply not a real filter in a "typical" relationship w/kids and work. If a person's world excludes that (as my Sister's does) then it's a different reality and your needs are much different. I know she certainly has much more time on her hands that she fills w/doing some pretty neat stuff (envy a little).
Bob in Texas at February 2, 2016 6:12 AM
Lobster,
There is also a difference between intelligent and educated. Personally I like intelligent women but I don't care much for the educated. And before all the crazy feminist jump in, the issue is the maleducation so many people get. Most get educated in being a victim and how to be greedy. As you point out the 'never do anything to please a man' ball-busters. There is just no future with that.
Traditional women are out there. But they are harder and harder to find. I would suggest if you do online dating to under-report your income. If you don't report an income no one will talk to you. They all assume it is zero. And in order to improve their chances most guys over-report their income. Typically by 10-20%. End of the day women care about the income of their dates. No if ands or buts about it. If you have a good income and under-report it you look like a much better deal once you start dating. Make that female hypergamy tendency work for you instead of against you. I think it improves the long term stability of the relationship.
Ben at February 3, 2016 9:22 AM
There is also a difference between intelligent and educated.
Ben, I never had a requirement that a woman be a college grad (or even have gone to college) but it just worked out that every woman I've been in a relationship with has been a college grad.
Except one.
She got pregnant in high school -- in a very small town in Colorado -- got married, moved to Seattle and never ended up going to college. She's an example of that difference you noted: not educated, but she was smart, with a very sharp sense of humor (we met on a Seattle-based internet message board and that was the part of her that grabbed me...then I met her and discovered she was also pretty and very sexy.) And that was fine with me. I appreciated her smarts and didn't care that she hadn't gone to college.
However... although she was smart, her interests were very...how should I say it?..."localized." She really wasn't interested in the world at large and that part did get to me.
JD at February 3, 2016 9:15 PM
My wife has a BA (in BS in my opinion). It is one of those liberal arts degrees. But unlike most college girls I've met she didn't internalize the culture of greed that is a part of most college curriculum. And while I don't have a lot of respect for the degree she got I have a lot of respect for the effort and intelligence she displayed. She was trying to improve her life with very little support. She may not have made all the best decisions but how many of us do?
Interestingly she is also 'localized' in interest. If it doesn't affect her part of the world she isn't that interested in it. For me that isn't an issue. We both have our areas of expertise that we bring to the partnership. And that is one of mine.
I've also noted she has low self esteem. Her skills are not the most commercial. So generating an income has been a problem for her. She also has poor financial planning skills. But not due to anything inherent. Her brother shows many of the same issues with money management. Now that I provide a more stable financial environment her self worth has perked up. In the end I'm not a fan of unsubstantiated self esteem. I certainly don't try to run my wife down and make her feel bad about herself. But I also don't like people who lie and tell everyone they are the greatest when clearly they aren't. High self esteem leads to all kinds of problems.
On a personal note, I can't tell if I have high, low, or accurate self esteem. I seem to have a philosophical difference with most of those tests so many of the diagnostic questions cannot be answered or end up with a score for the wrong reason. For an example "How confident do you feel that someday the people you know will look up
to you and respect you?" I answer this 'Very confidently' and at the same time it is a mark of failure and shame. I desire to have minimal personal impact on this world. If I functioned perfectly shortly after my death I would be forgotten. So, I get to the 'right' answer for all the wrong reasons.
Ben at February 6, 2016 6:10 AM
Lobster: I also really want my kids to feel loved and taken care of etc. (as I didn't have that growing up), so not really looking for some ambitious career-woman, rather, someone with more 'traditional' views on marriage
Lobster, you're certainly entitled to seek that kind of a woman but you seem to be implying that a woman who wants a career is incapable of loving and taking care of children (or, perhaps not incapable of it, but not as good as a "traditional", non-working-outside-the-home woman.)
I have two sisters, one older and one younger. Both graduated from college, the older one with a degree in nursing, the younger with a degree in business (marketing focus.) Aside from taking time off when their kids (they each have a son and a daughter) were born, they've both worked their entire adult lives. My younger sister is the more ambitious of the two; my older sister is more traditional (and very religious.)
Having not been around both families all the time, I can't say how much love all four kids got from both sisters but I can see how all four turned out; they turned out to all be great adults, and I'd put all of them up against any kids raised in a home where the woman didn't work outside the house at all.
JD at February 7, 2016 12:29 PM
Interestingly she is also 'localized' in interest. If it doesn't affect her part of the world she isn't that interested in it. For me that isn't an issue.
Well, to each their own Ben. It's great that isn't an issue for you, but it is for me. I don't need a woman to be an expert on what's going on in the world -- after all, I'm far from that myself -- but I do need some kind of awareness and interest. I have a difficult time relating to someone who has no interest whatsoever in what's happening outside of their personal life.
JD at February 7, 2016 12:37 PM
@"but you seem to be implying that a woman who wants a career is incapable of loving and taking care of children (or, perhaps not incapable of it, but not as good as a "traditional", non-working-outside-the-home woman.)"
Hi JD,
Two points:
1. My point was mainly not that careerwomen are necessarily 'bad mothers' or 'bad wives', but that they would not be right FOR ME, because I am NOT Mr Do-50%-of-the-dishes, I am Mr Focus-on-my-businesses and so I want a wife who is a 'homemaker' and lover ... not one who is too tired for me at the end of the day because she is busy trying to 'have it all'.
I accept that there are other men for women this could work better, but it would be a bad fit *FOR ME*. Surely this isn't hard to understand.
2. Of *course* a 'career woman' cannot (in general) be as good at 'loving and taking care of children', this is common sense - just one child is more than a full-time job alone. I don't care how PC it is to claim otherwise, it would violate the laws of physics for a woman to both be a dedicated careerwoman and an equally good mother and homemaker ... it's physically impossible because a woman cannot be in two places at once. Does that mean there aren't careerwomen who manage to make good mothers? Of course they exist, as exceptions. And generally when it works, you then need the type of man who is willing to help put in a so-called 'fair share' of housework etc. (I'm simply NOT that kind of man, and I am not ashamed of that), or you have the kids raised by e.g. nannies and daycare and so on, which is not what I want for my kids.
Lobster at February 7, 2016 5:24 PM
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