Savings And Alone
I'm a 28-year-old guy in a corporate job. I'm out there trying to meet women and date (or hook up), but I'm not doing so well. In college, I was able to hook up and get girlfriends pretty easily, and I haven't put on 100 pounds or anything. I've noticed that three of my male co-workers (at my same level at work) are getting lots of girls. All three are in major debt from buying clothes and leasing cars they really can't afford. Is being on the road to bankruptcy really what it takes to impress the ladies?
--Living Within My Means
Candlelight all over your apartment is really romantic -- unless you're using it because they've cut your power off again.
When women finally start looking to settle down and make a life with a man, the last thing they want is some credit-card-surfing spenditarian who gets his exercise running from collection agents. However, despite this, women can also be like blue jays on shiny objects -- especially shiny objects with, say, Audi emblems -- and men's "mate competition" through spendy-spend-spending reflects that.
Research on men and women ages 18 to 45 by evolutionary social psychologist Daniel Kruger found that men who had run up credit card debt were more likely to have multiple sex partners than their more sensibly spending bros. (Women's debt level didn't have any meaningful effect on their sexual body count.)
Again -- rather obviously -- women aren't all "I'm looking for a man who'll eventually have to crowdfund our children's dental bills." However, looking at Kruger's findings, another evolutionary psychologist, Glenn Geher, speculates that men's overspending "may act as a false signal of wealth, and although it is a false signal" (of the ability to provide resources for a woman and any children) "sometimes this deception is effective."
As for why that might be, just as a guy doesn't get to ask a woman whether her genes or steel-belted Spanx are the force behind her supermodel abs, a woman won't be poring over a guy's credit report at the bar. She'll just paw admiringly at the cashmere hoodie he took out two loans and sold his twin brother into slavery to buy.
This isn't to say you need to go into the red to get girls. It's ultimately a bad strategy for any guy who wants more than a string of flings. However, what would probably lead more women to give you a chance are the first-glance trappings of success -- beautiful shoes, designer eyeglass frames, that fab cashmere sweater, and maybe a really nice soft leather jacket.
The thing is, you can get these items simply by shopping shrewdly -- like at end-of-year sales or on eBay. They'll surely cost more than the duds you'd otherwise buy, but consider them investments to get you in the door. Remember, even women who want a boyfriend who's fiscally responsible are likely to be impressed by that sweater that took four years combing a Mongolian goat to make. And let's say some woman's just looking for a hookup. It's all good; she won't know you long enough to discover that although you do drive a brand-new "alternative-fuel" vehicle, it isn't a Tesla; it's a Schwinn.
I'm out there trying to meet women and date (or hook up), but I'm not doing so well.
This might be obvious to said women. They can smell that on you, dude. In college, women tend to have more of a gung-ho attitude about hookups or are just really really drunk at parties. In the late-20s, things change.
If you are radiating an attitude of "I want to meet women, and there's no good reason they don't want me!!" that is not attractive. Maybe your buddies are having more luck due to an attitude difference, not a car difference. Maybe they radiate a sense of "I am having fun" which is quite attractive.
I agree with Amy. Dress snazzy (but frugally). Look like you put thought into how you dressed. And try to go out with the attitude of "meeting new people." Not "meeting women." If going out to bars is just a means to an end for you, then maybe you just don't like bars that much. And you should go do things you genuinely find fun. And dress nice at those places.
sofar at March 15, 2017 8:39 AM
At 28 LW needs to understand WHY he wants to meet women (Think about it.) Sofar hints at it but ...
He is getting too old to just spend $$ two or three times a week just drinking.
W/o a "target" he is fishing in the wrong holes and wasting everyone's time. Not all bars (if any) "work" for 28 yo drinkers.
W/a specific goal in mind (companion, getting laid, ???) it should all come together.
If it doesn't then LW has some issues we don't know about.
(If he is totally clueless and really really needs help then get him into Salsa lessons and give it time.)
Bob in Texas at March 15, 2017 3:33 PM
If he is totally clueless and really really needs help then get him into Salsa lessons and give it time.
As a social dancer (including salsa), I will co-sign this with one caveat: Don't make the ultimate goal to "meet women" on the dance floor. Dancing with guys who are obvious about that is the worst.
Instead, go with the intention of having fun, enjoying the music, and maybe becoming decent at dancing/leading. You will make friends, you'll see the same ladies week after week and develop a rapport, women will have fun with you and feel comfortable with you, be impressed with you, and it will work itself out. As Bob says above, "Give it time."
sofar at March 16, 2017 7:40 AM
LW needs to read "Ladder Theory". One thing LT describes is what gets people's attention in the opposite sex: For men, appearance is a huge part of what catches our eye. For women, 50% is MONEY+POWER-- they tend to go together. 40% is ATTRACTION, which David Deangelo deconstructs in great detail. The last 10% is the optional cr@p women all SAY is important but really isn't-- the flowers, dinners, etc. It's only important if the other 40-50% is satisfied.
Since most of us will never be rich and powerful, we can still work on learning how to create attraction chemistry, which is skill in itself. After that, the last 10% is small potatoes.
Understand what VALUE means to a woman... it can be the evolutionary need, ie money and ability to feed her mini-mes, along with fighting off male interlopers. Running up huge credit debt is an example of FALSE VALUE, but it gets the same results!
VALUE can also be about how he makes her FEEL-- and this gets into the Nice Guy/Bad Boy paradox. Nice Guys can display genuine value, but leave her feeling nothing. Bad Boys display FALSE VALUE, but like saccharin in the hummingbird feeder, it goes nowhere.
One connection that should be glaringly obvious is how psychopaths/sociopaths are typically drawn to positions of money and power... and how easily women get taken in by these same creeps.
jefe at March 21, 2017 7:37 PM
All of the above is correct and probably will go over LW's head (both of them).
Nothing you do can/will succeed unless the lady notices you AND has some "spark" of attraction (appearance, status, attitude) that is unique to her personal needs (of which she may not be aware of).
You will and can not know what that "spark" is w/o observing her both short and long term. This is why "give it time" works.
Like jefe and sofar say: clean up, work on your personal skills, and give it time.
Bob in Texas at March 22, 2017 5:56 AM
Since LW's work buddies are using what amounts to psychopathic behaviour to get their women, it means these women are attracted to psychopaths. Is that how LW wants to attract women? Are they the women he WANTS to attract?
jefe at March 23, 2017 6:57 PM
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