You Deserve A Breakup Today
I really appreciated your recent column about people who go through with getting married when they know deep down that they're making a mistake. I'm reminded of the common societal admonishment against being a "quitter." There's this notion that you're some kind of loser if you quit anything -- even when logic tells you that you should bow out. This sort of absurd anti-logic is used (with the "marriage takes work" notion) to intimidate people into remaining in marriages that are total failures, which prolongs everyone's suffering.
--Been There
Ideally, "till death do us part" doesn't lead to daydreams involving a shovel and a tarp.
Granted, there are people in miserable marriages who stay together -- sometimes because they believe that a man with horns and a tail would end up chasing them around with a flaming pitchfork if they split up and married somebody else. Others, in humdrum but not ugly or toxic marriages, stay together -- admirably -- for their kids' sake. But many unhappy couples -- with no pitter-pattering little feet but the schnauzer's -- don't split up or are seriously slow to do it out of this notion that quitting is for losers.
I'm not suggesting that couples should scurry off to divorce court at the first sight of a cloud on the marital horizon. But there's a cost-benefit analysis to be done. Couples need to consider whether it's actually possible to work to make their marriage succeed or whether that would take their being two totally different and actually compatible people.
As for what "succeeding" in marriage means, let's be honest: In modern society, we have a luxury we never did before -- marrying for love and happiness. We then expect that these will continue to some reasonable (or sometimes unreasonable) degree. In previous centuries, sometimes you lucked out and got love in the marital package. But, as marriage historian Stephanie Coontz points out, for "thousands of years" -- until the late 18th century -- "marriage was more about property and politics than personal satisfaction." Two people would get "betrothed" to each other as a way of brokering peace between nations or getting the money to keep land in the family ("marriage is between a man and a potato farm").
These days, however, if continents or children won't be ravaged by a couple's breaking up, maybe there's no reason to be answering the question "Grandma, how'd you and Grandpa make it work?" with "We didn't. I just stayed till he died."
Even so, human psychology doesn't make it easy to extricate ourselves. Research by psychologist Elliot Aronson finds that we are prone to "self-justification" -- believing whatever puts us in the best light. In other words, we are natural-born spin doctors, driven to protect both our ego and our public persona -- to the point where our knee-jerk response when we fail at something is pretending we haven't, to ourselves and everybody else.
There is a psychological tool you can use to combat this. It's "self-compassion" -- basically, when you're going through a hard time, treating yourself as kindly as you'd treat someone else who's struggling. Psychologist Kristin Neff, who studies self-compassion, finds that an essential element of this is seeing your "common humanity" -- meaning viewing yourself as part of a whole population of flawed, fallible humans.
This might help you look charitably on the concept of the "starter marriage." This is a first marriage for a very young couple without kids or many assets that ends in divorce in five years or less. (These are people who went into marriage not knowing themselves or their partner all that well and not really understanding what marriage requires.) Still, older people, upon hearing about this newfangled "get out of jail free" card, will often grumble the marital version of "When I was your age, I crawled 20 miles to school over broken glass!" ("Um, thanks, Aunt Bessie, but I learn just fine when Mom drops me off in her Tesla.")
But consider that this "starter marriage" concept is actually very helpful -- right in line with the notion from self-compassion that you're not alone in making mistakes. Understanding this can help you view your failures less as shameful embarrassments and more as learning experiences that you can use to make better choices in the future. Seeing failures in this more compassionate, positive light could also help you be a bit faster to admit when you've screwed up so you can move on. This is certainly preferable to just sitting there glumly mired in your bad choices like a little kid who peed his pants -- and has to stay in those wet pants for the next 50 years, at which point somebody will throw a big anniversary party to celebrate.
"... people who go through with getting married when they know deep down that they're making a mistake."
It's a mistake. Giving in to social and family pressures to screw up someone's life as well as your own is not honest behavior.
It may be normal human behavior but that does not make it right (unless you are Palestine or some other ME nationality then the SJWs say it's okay by ignoring it).
Bob in Texas at March 22, 2017 5:46 AM
Most married people that I see divorcing never asked themselves if the kindness their partner displayed extended beyond people they "liked".
You can bring it up but men usually dismiss it with "lmao who cares she's nice to ME" and women with "he's going to change he just needs me to teach him how to manage his emotions better"
Why is it important? One day you're gonna be in the eat shit and die pile and you need to ask yourself how kind your partner is going to be when they hate your guts for annoying the hell out of them.
Are they going to be "we are all humans with flaws and we will get through this"? Or are they going to be "I deserve what I want exactly when I want it and I need to go out and get mine?"
It honestly amazes me how little people care about their partners being mega jerks to other people.
Ppen at March 22, 2017 5:52 AM
"Most married people that I see divorcing never asked themselves if the kindness their partner displayed extended beyond people they 'liked'."
This so much. There's a lot of truth in the old maxim about watching how they interact with the waiter/waitress at dinner. I could have avoided my first marriage if I had paid more attention to that sort of thing. Which, coming back to the topic: she did something that made her realize that I needed to get away from her, ASAP. Once I realized that, I didn't care what anyone thought about the fact that we were divorcing one year into marriage. "This is my life, not yours." Fortunately, in my case, family and friends were pretty supportive.
Regarding the starter marriage: One thing I hate is the person, man or woman, who marries under false pretenses. That's my main objection to the "starter marriage" concept; if one spouse or the other has the thought going in that they're going to use the marriage to gain wealth and status, and then trade up, that's hugely narcissistic and dishonest. That said, if both partners understand going in that it's probably not going to be a "forever" marriage, then that's their business. And I don't have a problem with no-fault divorce; I think the original concept is still valid -- why force people to stay together when they both want to move on? The problem is that, somewhere along the line, no-fault divorce morphed into unilateral divorce, and I do have a big problem with that.
Cousin Dave at March 22, 2017 8:50 AM
My mom is a Jehovah's Witness, and this was always the old canard I heard about marriage, as well. Divorce was regarded as a moral failure, and within their religion you could be disfellowshipped if you divorced for the "wrong" reasons. It didn't matter if you screwed up, got married when you were too young, and found yourself ten years later married to someone you hate - you stayed together anyway. I imagine this happens within their religion a lot, since they tend to get married really young because they want to have sex.
My dad never converted to that religion, and I think he got AWFULLY tired of hearing about it, but he also viewed it as something that "kept her out of trouble" (his words).
They adopted the same family roles that their own parents had, which is that the man earns the money and doesn't have to bother with the kids, and the woman's job is to take care of the house and do the shopping and raise the kids. The man is the "head of the house."
My dad was happy with this arrangement because it meant he always got his way on everything, since he was the one earning the money, and we got used to tiptoeing around on eggshells lest we displease His Highness. My mom went along with it because her religion dictated that the man was the head of the house and she was financially dependent anyway.
I decided as I was growing up that I wanted nothing to do with any of this. I wanted my own money and my own house. One time my mom was delivering one of her religious monologues about the man's role as the head of the family, and I declared that I was going to do an end run around all that nonsense by never getting married. The ensuing silence was its own reward.
The funny thing is that I am 47 now and never did get married! I've been with my boyfriend for ten years and we don't even live together. We spend weekends together and the rest of the time it's just me and my sweet little old pug lady.
Pirate Jo at March 22, 2017 9:24 AM
You're not a quitter if you never get married in the first place.
There doesn't seem to be much in it for men these days.
PPen and Cousin Dave are spot on. Do not hitch your wagon to a jerk, not matter how nice they are to you,
But Cousin Dave, I would love the details of what the x wife did that set off your alarm bells. Might be instructive for people on this board looking to avoid marrying someone with a cluster b disorder.
Isab at March 22, 2017 2:23 PM
It's a mistake. Giving in to social and family pressures to screw up someone's life as well as your own is not honest behavior.
True, but some people don't realize they're being "not honest." They may not feel great about the marriage, but, at age 21, they may have been raised to think there is no other option. Until they move out of mom and dad's house with their new spouse and realize there ARE other options, which is why half the people I grew up with got divorced by 25.
I grew up in a place with lots of families like that. And I am related, via marriage, to families that give the Duggars a run for their money.
sofar at March 23, 2017 8:06 AM
Isab, there are three things that stand out. The first was that, after a while, I began to notice that she had a way of, in any public event, turning people's attention to herself no matter what the event was for, usually with some kind of poor-mouth story. A particular one was a wedding reception that we attended. In the middle of the reception, she started very openly and noisily crying. She refused to tell me what was wrong. Pretty soon, nearly all of the women at the reception, including the bride, were engaged in trying to comfort her. Of course, they made me look like a heel. No one could explain what I did wrong, but it was one of those "If you don't know, I'm certainly not going to tell you!" things.
The second one was after we separated. She told me that she was just working and not engaging in any kind of social activities; she "needed time alone to think things through", etc. I got a call from a friend one evening who told me she was at a bar with two guys. I went down there and confronted them. Both of the guys were mortified and promptly left. After I did some checking, the story emerged that that, even as I was giving her money that supposedly went to pay her rent and bills, she was living with -- and sleeping with -- these two guys, in exchange for free room and board, and she did all of their housework too. (Both of the guys contacted me the next day and apologized profusely. They said she had told them she was single. One of them was so embarrassed that he left town a few weeks later.)
This was when I seriously started to think about divorce. My thinking crystallized a few days later, when I received several bills for credit cards that I had not signed up for. I checked with the stores involved, and one of them produced a copy of the application form. She had forged my signature on it. I found out that she had obtained at least 10 cards, in my name, that way. I went to a lawyer the next morning, and followed his advice. I had to run one of those ads in the public-notices section of the newspaper classified ads, saying that as of that date, I was no longer responsible for any debts incurred by anyone but myself. I had to pay off thousands of dollars of bills that she had run up prior to that. I had to live in near-poverty for a while to do it, but I did.
Over the next few weeks I made it a point to be super-nice to her, for the purpose of getting her to agree to an uncontested divorce. I bought her dinners, I got her car fixed, etc. She did agree and we signed the papers, and that was it. She left me with one more surprise... at the several jobs she worked that year, she had declared herself exempt from withholding. So I had to pay her income tax at the end of the year. Fortunately she hadn't worked that much.
For years afterwards, she continued to try to obtain credit cards in my name. I had to deal with one just about three years ago, and we've been divorced for over 25 years. I've had no contact at all with her since 1992, but she knows where I live, despite the fact that the house I live in now didn't exist when we were married.
Cousin Dave at March 23, 2017 12:34 PM
Cousin Dave,
Your ex is borderline.
Pirate Jo at March 23, 2017 3:20 PM
Cousin Dave,
Your ex is borderline.
Pirate Jo at March 23, 2017 3:20 PM
He knows this. :-).
I have a former friend who is as well, Hard to spot initially, and a borderline will use quick sex to set the hook.
They tend to be good in bed.
Another really good argument for getting to know someone pretty well before you make the relationship sexual.
Isab at March 23, 2017 7:45 PM
There is a phenomenon in clinical psychology where only therapists/psychiatrists diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder can handle multiple borderline patients. Most therapists/psychiatrists will only accept 1 active borderline patient, if they decide to accept any at all.
The open secret in psychology is that people with personality disorders do not respond to medications or therapy. This is "who" they are, unlike say a schizophrenic.
Ppen at March 23, 2017 8:45 PM
There is a phenomenon in clinical psychology where only therapists/psychiatrists diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder can handle multiple borderline patients. Most therapists/psychiatrists will only accept 1 active borderline patient, if they decide to accept any at all.
The open secret in psychology is that people with personality disorders do not respond to medications or therapy. This is "who" they are, unlike say a schizophrenic.
Ppen at March 23, 2017 8:45 PM
Interesting. I suppose the narracistic personality disorder is somewhat immune to being manipulated by the borderline because they are busy manipulting everyone else ( and can probably see right through them).
If a Borderline is * who they are* and not responsive to medication maybe the only reasonable goal of therapy is to make them learn how to function in relationships wtihout the borderline part going Apeshit.
My friend who was borderline could control her outbursts and lying when she had a good reason to do so, at least until she kind of totally lost control when her son was murdered.
She may be back on the wagon somewhat now, but for a while everyone fled in terror including her close family members.
Isab at March 24, 2017 2:05 AM
You're right, Isab - now that I think of it, Cousin Dave has mentioned the ex having "Cluster B" issues before.
To Ppen's point, schizophrenia is an actual mental illness, whereas these personality disorders - they just seem to be cases where someone is a big enough asshole that a checklist and a name can be assigned. I don't think I know any borderlines, but I did know one person who fit the textbook definition of narcissistic personality disorder.
Isab you mention people who are clever at hiding these kinds of things, but not all of them are necessarily all that smart. The NPD I knew was totally into all the scheming and manipulation, but wasn't bright enough to carry it off - her behavior was just blatantly obnoxious to everyone.
I think she really did want people to like her - in fact, her neediness for social approval was way over the top compared to the average person's desire to be liked. But then she didn't think the same social expectations that apply to other people should apply to her, like not stomping all over people's boundaries or bugging the crap out of them. If the only way to get people to like you is to stop acting like a complete cunt, well then stop acting like a complete cunt! It's not a true mental illness, though - more like willful stupidity.
Don't people have the ability to control their own behavior? I mean, I'm an introvert and I don't think I can change that, but that doesn't mean I have to be rude to people. Oh well, I don't try to solve these people's problems for them, when avoidance works just as well.
Pirate Jo at March 24, 2017 8:08 AM
Don't people have the ability to control their own behavior?
Some do, some dont.
Take my step mother. Perfectly lovely women to me and my sister, right up until she had her own kids. Then she became and abusive cunt.
once my sister and I were out of the house and off on our own lives she became perfectly nice once more. To the point my sister allows her kids to sleep over at the 'grandparents' house
Took me years to finally understand why. I was watching a documentery on mountain animals and the den mother of the burrows would beat the ever loving shit out of any of her pregnant daughters that came back if they failed to secure a burrow of their own. This was to induce an abortion so there would be enough food for the den mother to eat while gestating her next litter
My sister and I were competition for the resources that could have gone to her real children, once we stopped being such, she stopped being an abusive cunt
Some people are nothing more than meat puppets acting out their biological programming
I'm curious to see what happens if her kids ever have kids. Whether that instinct will rear up again. Currently my sister is the only one of my siblings to have had children. Her kids are currently the age my sister and I were when she got pregnant
And if it does, I'll kill her
lujlp at March 25, 2017 9:47 AM
I know now that my ex was borderline / histrionic. At the time I didn't know what that was. I just knew it was crazy and rapidly getting crazier, and I had to get away from it. It wasn't until some years later, when I read up on the Cluster B personality disorders, that it started to make sense.
"Don't people have the ability to control their own behavior?"
My understanding of Cluster B is that they can control their behavior; they just don't want to, or don't think they should have to. I know my ex could control herself for a while when it was in pursuit of something she wanted. But the longer she had to do that, the worse the eruption would be when she finally let it out. And in general, she had an attention span measured in microseconds, something which I've learned is characteristic of the borderline. Going on a vacation with her was an exercise in frustration, because she'd beg to schedule some activity (usually something that was difficult / expensive to get access to), and then when we got there, she'd decide within a few minutes that she was bored with it. I did eventually figure out that I could use this to my advantage; sometimes, if I just ignored a demand she made, she'd forget about it shortly. The trick was knowing when it would work.
Since then I've been able to spot Cluster B traits in some other people that I've interacted with. Some things that I pick up on:
1. Constant anger, mixed with a sense of self-righteousness. Even when they are making a show of being happy, they'll let slip about something that is pissing them off at the moment. And there are a whole lot of things that piss them off. They can carry grudges, over minor issues, for years, and they seldom forget any any real or perceived sleight.
2. Other than that, they don't experience emotions like you and I do. Pretty much the only other emotions they experience are the base desires -- lust, covetousness, jealousy, desire for revenge.
3. They don't "get" ordinary humor. Jokes, riddles, puns, ordinary comedy, it bores them. They don't see the point. What they find humorous is cruelty, particularly cruelty towards people that they don't like.
4. "Splitting" is mentioned a lot in the literature, and it's true. If you aren't completely in their corner, backing them 100% on every issue, then you are a mortal enemy. Until they want something from you, then it changes again.
5. Need to be the center of attention all the time, no matter what the occasion.
6. A pervasive sense that they have been cheated out of riches, glory or status that is rightfully theirs. My ex was constantly complaining about how her parents preferred her sister, and about how much money they were always giving the sister. (I met her sister a few times. She struck me as a decent sort; she and her husband had good jobs, and they spent money with discretion, and thanks to that they were able to have a few nice things. If her parents were giving her lots of money, I saw no sign of it.)
8. Complains about you doing ordinary, everyday life things that don't involve them. My ex was constantly complaining about the amount of time I spent at work, even though I was not working extraordinary long hours. (She seldom held a job for more than a few days -- that short attention span thing.) And she didn't like the fact that I had female co-workers, as if there were something I could do about it.
9. Sexually promiscuous, and sneaky about it. After our divorce, I found out about a number of occasions where she cheated on me. Some of them I suspected, but some of them I had no idea. They can be really clever about cheating, and they will have no problems with lying to your face about it. I think this is one of the reasons we have cultural taboos about promiscuity -- because it's a mark of the personality-disordered. That's not to say that all promiscuous people are Cluster B's, but I think a pretty high percentage of them are.
Cousin Dave at March 27, 2017 7:18 AM
My understanding of Cluster B is that they can control their behavior; they just don't want to, or don't think they should have to.
Right, that's why I don't feel obligated to be patient with them. They are just dickweeds and I am free to despise/avoid them all I like. Someone with an actual mental illness is different.
Luj, I think your stepmom was perfectly capable of not being abusive. Maybe she couldn't help the fact that she loved her biological kids more than her stepkids, but those are emotions - not behavior. The behavior of mountain lions is no excuse.
Pirate Jo at March 27, 2017 11:15 AM
Some cynical bastards refer to Borderline Personality disorder as spoiled ten year old child syndrome.
It makes me wonder if there are any good studies on what age this disorder manifests itself,
And whether there are any effective technques for nipping it in the bud.
My daughter was a bit mainipulative when she was a teenager.
If it had worked on her parents, I often wonder if she would have gotten better and better at it.
Isab at March 27, 2017 6:00 PM
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