Silicone Valley
I'm a guy who hates fake boobs. I've dumped women I really liked upon discovering they have them. Total dealbreaker for me. However, I obviously can't just ask whether a woman has them. What should I do? I don't want to waste my time or hers.
--Real Deal
Right. Not exactly a first-date question: "So...did you get your boobs from your mom's side of the family or from some doc's Yelp review?"
Your aversion to counterfitties doesn't come out of nowhere. Breast implants are a form of "strategic interference," evolutionary psychologist David Buss' term for when the mating strategies of one sex are derailed by the other. Women, for example, evolved to seek "providers" -- men with high status and access to resources. A guy engages in strategic interference by impressing the ladies with his snazzy new Audi -- one he pays for by subletting a "condo" that's actually the backyard playhouse of the rotten 8-year-old next door.
A woman doesn't need an Audi (or even a bus pass) to attract men. She just needs the features that men evolved to go all oglypants for -- like youth, an hourglass bod, big eyes, full lips, and big bra puppies. Men aren't attracted to these features just becuz. Biological anthropologist Grazyna Jasienska finds that women with big (natural!) boobs have higher levels of the hormone estradiol, a form of estrogen that increases a woman's likelihood of conception.
Women with both big boobs and a small waist have about 30 percent higher levels -- which could mean they'd be about three times as likely to get pregnant as other women. So, big fake boobs are a form of mating forgery -- like a box supposedly containing a high-def TV that actually contains a bunch of no-def bricks.
There are some telltale signs of Frankenboobs, like immunity from gravity. Women with big real boobs have bra straps that could double as seat belts and bra backs like those lumbar support belts worn by warehouse workers. However, an increasing number of women have more subtle implants (all the better to strategically interfere with you, my dear!).
Though you might get the truth by teasing the subject of plastic surgery into conversation, you should accept the reality: You may not know till you get a woman horizontal -- and the sweater Alps remain so high and proud you're pretty sure you see Heidi running across them, waving to the Ricola guy playing the alpenhorn.
A telltale sign may also be her personality. Women who get implants are generally vain in other ways. Lots of makeup? A fetish for designer everything?
If you prefer your women au naturel, then go all the way, and avoid the ones who buy eye shadow by the barrel.
a_random_guy at July 12, 2017 4:08 AM
There ARE reasons that don't involve vanity for having breast implants. Several reasons.
If LW likes the woman enough to date her, what changes with the discovery of implants? (Sincere question here, not a snippy retort.)
BeccaB at July 12, 2017 5:13 AM
Women who get implants already know there are men don't like them, and they've weighed the pros and cons. A lot of men don't mind at all. Some even encourage their partners to get them, and they pay
for them.
Also, there are many benefits to looking hot beyond seducing your mate, and the general public will never know they're fake (if they're done skillfully and tastefully).
Insufficient Poison at July 12, 2017 6:07 AM
Becca, a partial answer to your question: The problems occur mainly when the woman in question has been, shall we say, overly ambitious. I've seen some that tried to go from an A to a D, and it looks terribly unnatural; the shape is all wrong (no woman with natural D-cups has perfectly spherical boobs), and the skin over the sternum is so stretched that it looks like she must be in pain. It makes me wince to see it. The best analogy I can think of for men is a bodybuilder who has obviously been using steroids, and is bulked up in an obviously unnatural manner. Some women might find it attractive, but I think more would be put off by it.
A 1 or 1-1/2 cup size increase, done by a competent doctor, can look very good. In my younger days I knew a gal who went from a small B to a C. She, erm, allowed me to inspect them once. They looked good on her; they looked liked she was born with them. They felt a bit odd, but at the time she was not completely healed, so that may have been the reason for that. I would have had no hesitation with dating her based on that. (I wasn't going to date her for other reasons; we weren't compatible, but she was a friend.)
Cousin Dave at July 12, 2017 6:19 AM
"what changes with the discovery of implants?"
I suppose it's a bit like purchasing a car with a salvage title. Allows you to drive something a little flashier than what you could normally attain but may not hold up as well in the long run and the handling is just a little bit off.
smurfy at July 12, 2017 7:42 AM
@Cousin Dave. Thanks for the thoughtful response. That was kind of my point ... why, if you find someone you enjoy being with so much that you want to date her, would implants automatically be a deal breaker? Does that mean that if he met a wonderful, beautiful, fun, and friendly person who was a joy to be around she'd be disqualified for having implants? Say, even if she were a breast cancer survivor who'd opted for reconstruction?
(He sounds like a male version of "Shannon" from Despicable Me 2.)
BeccaB at July 12, 2017 7:55 AM
@smurfy - I'll be generous and assume you didn't intend to compare a human being to a posession ... right?
BeccaB at July 12, 2017 10:11 AM
Fair enough. If I were dating a guy who couldn't be with someone who had implants even if they're attractive, that would be a total dealbreaker for me. If we get married and I get breast cancer, I'd never want to be with someone who would be seriously bothered by my reconstructive surgery.
So I say LW should ask on the first/second date and admit why he's asking. This will give most women the chance to run for the hills early on, prevent women with implants from having their time wasted, and allow LW to more efficiently find that rare gem who is like, "I'm all natural, and OMG *I* hate implants toooo!"
sofar at July 12, 2017 11:10 AM
Can't we all just heart boobs and let it go at that?
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at July 12, 2017 5:05 PM
Ditto spray-painted makeup.
Ditto tattoos.
Know what kills my libido? Cellphones hanging out of back pockets! Can you name a worse place to carry one?
jefe at July 12, 2017 8:23 PM
BeccaB,
Amy already answered the question. Let's say you met Rodrick. He is handsome and charming and patient. You had your picnics in the park, wine tasting up the Valley, he's showered attention and affection on you, he drives a Beemer, wears his Rolex...
And you find out he is aggressively and unrepentantly bisexual.
Are you going to throw away a perfectly good companion away because he is bisexual?
Or because he is a male stripper?
Or he's bankrupt?
Or if he has 4 school age children at home desperately needing a mother?
He's a great guy, right? RIGHT?
The fantasy built up in the head suddenly crashes against reality in unacceptable fashions. No, I don't get his fetish either.
Just to cover the fairness doctrine, how many women have you seen dump perfectly good men for objectively trivial reasons?
FIDO at July 12, 2017 9:58 PM
Hmmmm ...
I was thinking of this more along the lines of rejecting a person because you find out he or she has a prosthetic leg. Contemplate that a moment ... and consider why my perspective on this may not be as shallow as you seem to think it is.
BeccaB at July 13, 2017 3:08 AM
I'm sorry, who called you shallow again?
Shallow is that scene from the movie 'Knocked Up', where Kathy Heigl has that date with a guy who matches up every single box on her list...except he is 5 foot 6 inches tall.
So yes. Hoppalong Sally didn't ask to be one legged, but Sean Astin didn't ask to be born short either. Ellen didn't ask to be born ugly.
If LW's choice offends you, take some comfort in the fact that for the most part, most men are NOT Jerry Seinfeld, requiring totally original equipment. But every single woman who embraces X (where X might be veganism, Republicanism, fake boobs, allowing herself to become morbidly obese) knows that they are shrinking their dating market in some way. Frankly, girls with fake headlights are actually playing the odds well. For every Jerry, there is about three Georges happy to see her dedication whom she just put herself on their radar.
As far as 'people being shallow', sorry, but they are allowed to try to find their happiness as wisely or as poorly as they want to. If you'd like to hate on him, be my guest.
I am giving his choices a befuddled shrug.
FIDO at July 13, 2017 6:02 AM
What percentage of breast implants are for prosthetic reasons? Under 10%? Under 5%?
For the vast majority, I believe fake on the outside reveals fake on the inside.
gcmortal at July 13, 2017 6:17 AM
I'm not the LW, by the way.
gcmortal at July 13, 2017 6:38 AM
"why, if you find someone you enjoy being with so much that you want to date her, would implants automatically be a deal breaker? "
Good question... I can't give you a better answer, other than that everyone has a few things that are deal-breakers for them. And often they are things that might seem silly to someone else, but then that second person has their own deal-breakers, and so forth. Often this is based on prior experience with a type, and while it might be unfair to label everyone of that type with those undesirable attributes, it still serves for the person as a useful rule of thumb. Perhaps the LW has had bad experiences in the past with women who had implants.
Cousin Dave at July 13, 2017 6:39 AM
"I believe fake on the outside reveals fake on the inside."
Let's shun them and drive them from the community.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at July 13, 2017 8:52 AM
I believe that from an evolutionary biology standpoint, having a boob job because of breast cancer or family history of breast cancer, would be a very bad thing. Having cancer by childbearing years doesn't speak well of the genes.
A prosthetic limb I'd guess could go either way depending on why it's missing.
Joe J at July 13, 2017 12:36 PM
The man I'm married to has no problem with fake boobs, but I can see how some guys would find them gross or shallow or a bait-n-swich. Hell, I wouldn't date a guy with hair plugs. Probably wouldn't date a guy who'd had any elective cosmetic proceedure. I have to note, though, that the dude claims to have broken up with more than woman upon discovering they had implants. It makes me wonder if he has realistic expectations about women's bodies. Is he a man who likes twigs (or super-athletic girls) with huge boobs? Because there really aren't a lot of super-thin ladies with huge racks. Ya know, natural emeralds are so much more than lab-created ones because the real ones are so rare. Tall beautiful willowy women with D-cups get modeling gigs with Victoria's Secret. And boyfriends with private jets.
I just have a hard time believing that he really can't tell.
Ahw at July 13, 2017 2:11 PM
"Tall beautiful willowy women with D-cups get modeling gigs with Victoria's Secret."
My wife, who is, shall we say, well endowed, tells me that she can't shop at Victoria's Secret because they don't carry much of anything for women larger than a C-cup.
Cousin Dave at July 14, 2017 6:24 AM
LW should count his blessings and be grateful when a woman wants to show her boobs to him, natural or store-bought.
bkmale at July 14, 2017 6:51 AM
Um ... women past traditional child bearing age end up in the dating pool sometimes too.
I've also worked with a few young women who lost a breast due to accidents. Motor cycle mishap, car accident, gun shot. One gal was hit by a boat propeller while swimming in a lake. She was only 16. I guess my life experience gives me a different outlook on the LW's position.
I will admit - It would hurt VERY badly to have someone put my boobs or lack thereof above any other positive attributes I may have. But I suppose anyone who would do that wouldn't really be worth the sadness.
Fair enough?
BeccaB at July 14, 2017 12:39 PM
One generally doesn't choose one's turnoffs. One likes what one likes, and vice-versa. It's not necessarily a judgment on someone to not find something about them attractive. Either someone's a match or they aren't.
Treadwell at July 14, 2017 7:02 PM
Very generous of heart ... I like it!
BeccaB at July 15, 2017 6:09 AM
Why don't we turn this around?
Why shouldn't HE be the one to signal exactly how strongly he feels about 'falsies' to a potential date around date 4 before intimacy. (WHAT? FOUR dates before intimacy?!? Inconceivable!)
This doesn't need to be something direct. If he's watching pretty much any starlet, he might make a comment about 'she looks so fake. Don't you hate fake boobs?' This solves this 'heartbreak' issue that Becca talks about...but honestly, I get the sense that this guy isn't waiting for the woman to pick out china patterns before he 'presses his suit'. Exactly how emotionally invested are today's women the first time they get to Second Base?
OR, how about an even EASIER solution. Date flat girls. Flat girls need love too. How many girls pick A cup implants? That would be none. All natural all the time.
But no. He wants big boobs but ONLY connoisseur quality big boobs. So his problem is not exactly one I am terribly sympathetic to.
FIDO at July 17, 2017 6:26 AM
But no. He wants big boobs but ONLY connoisseur quality big boobs. So his problem is not exactly one I am terribly sympathetic to.
Comment of the month.
sofar at July 17, 2017 9:23 AM
The heart wants what the heart wants, sure...but "fake on the outside = fake on the inside"? Christ, that's harsh.
What about people who have had orthodontia? Wouldn't that also count as "fake on the outside = fake on the inside"?
How about contacts? Rhinoplasty? Hair Waxing? Getting your hair permed/straightened or colored?
The problem with judging folks on the other side of the line in the sand is where to draw the line.
Wallawallawanda at July 19, 2017 1:28 PM
12% of all women will develop breast cancer in their lifetime. I've had it. I'm young (43). My sister-in-law had it. She's 40. Mine has absolutely nothing to do with genetics and neither did hers. I had reconstruction, she did not. She's just flat, nipples spared. My brother is thankful every day that his wife is alive, and I've never once gotten a sniff that he is unhappy with how her breasts are or aren't. Hopefully most men can say that if their wife had breast cancer they would be okay with whatever outcome there was because she lived through it. My now I'm doubting this attribute, which basically comes down to love. Do you love your wife or their boobs? Hopefully we all have a partner who loves us completely and not just our prostates or breasts or uterus or testicles.
gooseegg at July 21, 2017 9:25 AM
He didn't say he wanted big boobs, he said he wanted natural boobs.
NicoleK at July 23, 2017 11:45 AM
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