The Last Stare Fighter
I'm a 28-year-old woman who has been single for over five years. I'm steering clear of dating sites right now because of how so many guys portray themselves in ways that are very different from how they are in person. But then, in day-to-day life, when I smile at a guy I like, he'll usually smile back but he still won't come over and talk to me. Call me traditional, but I want a guy who has the courage to approach me. Guys are meant to do the pursuing.
--Unapproached
"Guys are meant to do the pursuing." Well, okay, but forgive the poor dears if they'd like some sign from you about what's likely to be in store for them if they hit on you -- a hot time in bed or years of painful skin grafts from a 300-degree pumpkin latte you throw in their face.
Oh, right -- you say you smile at the guys you like. Consider that from a guy's perspective: Maybe you were smiling at him -- or maybe at some CrossFit Adonis standing right behind him.
A single ambiguous signal isn't a reliable message -- that is, a reliably actionable message -- especially when there's risk involved in taking action. (In hitting on you, there's the possibility of public humiliation -- maybe even of the "Whoa, the YouTube video is going viral!" kind.) It also doesn't help that a smile requires very little investment from you -- in effort or risk.
Amotz Zahavi, an Israeli zoologist who studies signaling -- behavioral communication between individuals or critters -- points out that signals that are more "costly" to the sender are read as more trustworthy (and usually are). Your talking to a guy would be an example of a stronger indication of interest from you (than a mere smile) -- particularly if you initiate the conversation.
You send an even stronger message that you're interested by giving several signals at once. For example, you could touch a guy's arm while you're talking and make and hold eye contact (though just for a few seconds, not as if you're a serial killer trying to hypnotize him into climbing into your trunk).
You should also consider that men, more than ever, want to err on the side of seeing that their advances are wanted -- which is to say they're all terrified that they'll wake up one day and find their name tweeted with #MeToo. This surely affects their willingness to even ask women out.
I have written previously about how overt pursuit by a woman -- direct, explicit expressions of interest, like asking a guy out -- is a risky strategy, as it tends to lead men to subconsciously devalue her. (If she's chasing them instead of snubbing them like so many other women do, she must be desperate and/or have her sanity up on blocks in the front yard.)
However, it turns out that you can probably go really, really big in being flirtatious -- like way over what you're seriously sure is the top. This comes out of the fascinating psychological effect of "indirect speech" -- speech that implies what the speaker means rather than explicitly stating it.
The indirectness allows us an essential "out," according to psychologist and linguist Steven Pinker. Basically, as long as we can't be 100 percent certain of what a person really means -- as long as there's even 1 percent of uncertainty -- there's "plausible deniability." This allows us to just ignore something that would have been offensive if it had been said in a flat-out way.
So, for example, if something is said euphemistically -- a la the ol' "Wanna come up and see my etchings?" -- both parties can act as if it didn't mean what it pretty obviously does mean: something along the lines of "It's getting a little loud in here in Cafe Pretentious. Wanna go somewhere quiet and have sex?"
However -- realistically -- flirting big, on its own, may not be enough. There are men who will realize -- after you walk out of the drugstore or cafe and out of their lives forever -- that they should have asked you out. Put them in a position to have a second chance by going to the same place over and over -- like by showing up at the same coffeehouse every Saturday.
In doing this, you'll also get the benefit of observing men in a naturalistic habitat, allowing you to see potentially disturbing things about them that aren't evident online. This can end up being a lifesaving measure -- perhaps literally (in rare cases) and at least figuratively, when you discover that five minutes talking with a guy flies right by...like seven hours spent gagged and zip-tied to a chair.
Co-ed--to use an old college terem--activities give people a chance to see others doing non-dating stuff. Any kind of activity; tennis league, food pantry, civic activity, which has both men and women and meets regularly is a good chance. You observe them when they're not "on". Valuable.
Richard Aubrey at August 8, 2018 6:25 AM
Hysterical feminism has taught a new generation of women to take any "unwanted attention" from men as extremely offensive. In bygone times a woman might say no thank you as a response to unwanted male attention. Nowadays, she might roll her eyes, give you a look of disgust and let out an audible groan. Sadly, women don't trace some of the negative consequences of hysterical feminism back to itself.
Dave M. at August 8, 2018 6:39 AM
You gotta do the eye thing.
Make eye contact, quickly look away. Look back and make eye contact again. Then look away again.
Throw a smile in there somewhere. It works. I've never been super hot or devastatingly beautiful. And it worked.
NicoleK at August 8, 2018 8:15 AM
Hysterical feminism has taught a new generation of women to take any "unwanted attention" from men as extremely offensive.
You misspelled criminal
In bygone times a woman might say no thank you as a response to unwanted male attention. Nowadays, she might roll her eyes, give you a look of disgust and let out an audible groan.
Most guys can handle that, these day the problem is when a woman comes on to you, takes you back to her place, sucks you off, has sex with you, takes you out to breakfast the next day, and sucks you off in the restaurant only to have you arrested for rape later in the month - because after being shamed for bragging to her friends they all decide the Advil and half a beer she had made her too drunk to consent
lujlp at August 8, 2018 1:17 PM
I have one word: Grace.
You know...the bitch who dated Aziz Ansari. The one who went on babenet.
And you think a smile is going to be enough to allay male concerns these days? When their entire life can be destroyed?
Amy is 100% correct. You need to up your rather random and easily misconstrued game.
And if you ever used the words 'toxic masculinity' in an unironic way, you don't deserve to have brave men approach you.
FIDO at August 8, 2018 2:43 PM
One view, xkcd's creepy, explores a social failure mode
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/642:_Creepy
A similar view, though taken to 111 in the last panel
https://i.imgur.com/dkHCFd1.png
This last one made the rounds of twitter today with lots of mocking of the jerk who proves why women need earbuds from people not understanding it was likely an intentional ironic joke. (modern definition of reddit/4chan circle-jerk)
> I’m glad so many people also enjoy this guy’s absurd rant, because it really validates the past four years of me thinking of it nearly every time I put in earbuds
the joke is that this "classic" comes from a 4chan board /r9k/ that seems to be ...
> Nowadays it's more about green text stories and circlejerking about being a social recluse
That jerk ain't your typical dude, and the point sort of stands, there is something about a hoodie or earphones or a cellphone or many of the toys we carry around that are intentionally supposed to shield people from social encounters -- and then people want to know why no one ever talks to them or asks them out... A self-fulfilling prophecy.
jerry at August 8, 2018 10:26 PM
This is one of the most obnoxious things I've ever read. 'I want a guy who has the courage...'
Oh, because you're so bloody irresistible are you? Here is a thought: maybe you're not much to write home about. Maybe decent his think you're an arrogant ass, because you certainly sounds like one to me. Maybe they are women or there who aren't shit testing guys all the time and men like them instead.
Yet another modern girl who suddenly turns traditional when dating.
Adam at August 8, 2018 11:30 PM
Funny that the people that are being taught about "toxic masculinity" have no idea what "toxic femininity" is. I would argue that most think there is no such thing... although I would argue it is more prevalent than toxic masculinity. Watching The View comes to mind.
Dave M. at August 9, 2018 9:35 AM
Meanwhile, in the real world, men are flirtatious.
Seriously, stop reading this crap and go do the eye thing.
I promise, as a non-beautiful woman, it works.
NicoleK at August 10, 2018 1:16 PM
Make a cold approach to a strange woman and risk being blackmailed with social media reputation destruction, work place harassment, general contempt for being a technical hands on field instead of being a Scottish laird, pirate, vampire, felon, bad boy financial manipulator, and ultimately run the risk of having some crazy feminista file false rape charges?
No thank you.
Buy food drinks transport and entertainment for an employed woman with the expectation of getting nothing in return.
No thank you.
Invest time in a so called professional women, whose job in sales or management involves no personal investment of time other than being a paid corporate entertainer? Most of these womens have high salaries and higher debt, and a huge notch count.
No thank you.
If you are interested, please do make an approach, but have your tax return, bank statement and recent PAP smear report in hand, so I can have some assurance that you are not an ongoing disaster.
Jonathan Nacintoje at August 13, 2018 2:08 PM
Oh dear! And here I thought I was being friendly by smiling (or maybe just in a good mood). Apparently, I have been flirting. Because there is no reason to smile other than flirting. Oh the poor dears who have to smile for their jobs!
Seriously folks. Smiling is anything from "hey! You look cute!" To "karma just caught up with my school-days bully and it was posted on YouTube, and I've been watching it on a loop." It is probably as ambiguous a signal as breathing.
Shannon at August 15, 2018 8:37 AM
I think the feminism bubble will burst very soon. I mean this woman is 28 and hasn't dated in 5 years. What now? Imagine she meets a guy next year and then after 3 years of dating they break up. Now she's 32 and has no family. Then the next guy she dates for 2 years but he cheats on her and now shes 34 with no one to love. What happens then? I think women should think long and hard about why so much of society and popular culture is set up to alienate them from men and keep them single.
Think of all the other women like her. Most of the women in my high school graduating class are 31, childless, and unmarried. When all these millennial women turn 40 and realize they have no children, no long term partner; just a degree and a dog then feminism will end. When the young women of the future look at this lost generation of sad and lonely old ladies I don't think they will be very receptive to feminism.
I would like to give the men some advice. There is a lot of propoganda aimed at you now to keep you from finding a woman. For example women have been trained to throw around reputation destroying words like "creepy" when an unnatractive man shows interest in them. The purpose of this is to threaten you with social ostracism if you show interest in a woman. It sucks but that's the way it is. You should make yourselves as attractive as possible to avoid this. Don't give up and retreat into video games and cartoons.
Also all this shit makes sense if you realize feminists just hate white people. Especially white males. All those attacks against flirting in public and such are just meant to increase white male anxiety about meeting white women. Any minorities harmed by this are collateral damage. The end result is less white babies. Compare feminist attitudes towards whitle males and muslims if you don't believe me.
Anyway good luck to all of you. And thanks for giving this woman great advice Amy. I hope she does find someone to love soon.
Jewish Cat at August 15, 2018 6:42 PM
Let's ignore the #MeToo political fallout that makes many women unattractive to approach and actually translate what the woman is saying.
"I am sending the lightest and most ambiguous of social cues to protect my ego from rejection and THINKING REALLY HARD about this guy coming over and approaching me. WHY ISN"T HE A MIND READER?!?"
She is 'Wishing, and Hoping, And Praying, and Dreaming'
Good luck with that. It seems our grandmothers had it all over today's young ladies in how to work the system.
Fake broken car
Accidently tripping into him.
Being 'lost'
Spilled books
Accidently spilling a (COLD) beverage on a man and then 'making it up to him'
Working to get on his study/work group and HANGING AROUND HIM A LOT
But no. She's sitting in a coffee shop smiling vaguely in his direction.
Way to go low effort, madam.
FIDO at August 17, 2018 3:15 AM
and at least figuratively, when you discover that five minutes talking with a guy flies right by...like seven hours spent gagged and zip-tied to a chair.
Amy says she is scientifically minded. She likes stats.
This post is particularly offensive considering the actual victim stats.
A woman is three times more likely to be hurt in her bathroom than be raped.
Any woman (never mind WHITE woman) has a 1 chance in 102 THOUSAND to be murdered...and that murderer most likely someone she knows (ditto rape).
So a more protected group just doesn't exist. But let's throw out a sisterhood slam.
One can hardly blame women for being WOEFULLY misinformed, though. Hollywood, to drum up ratings, in every crime show has some evil/insane white man killing/raping some nubile 22 year old white girl because 'can't offend ethnics' and 'sex sells'.
Still...pretty offensive.
FIDO at August 17, 2018 3:28 AM
Umm.
Before I retired, I'd have lunch in company cafeteria and listen in to the wymins over at the nest table. I was a 6 figure consultant, and as my job involved getting dirty I dressed down, since I was not on any org chart, I generated no female interest, and was cold shouldered on rare occasions I did make an approach.
Anyway from my eves-dropping, I learned that it generally takes 2 to 3 marriages and divorces to high income professional men to appropriate enough assets to get set up for life and afford a boy toy. To sell the product and bag the commission, a woman selling high end medical equipment usually has to f**k or provide drugs (coke or a heroin analogue) to a least three or four decision making administrators, for most wymin a vacation or cruise is not a success unless she has bonked 3 or 4 cabana boys, and scored an expensive meal or other free entertainment at least every other night. The typical Becky takes a lot of dumb risks, they expect that someone, some Daddy figure, some schlemiel, will always be there to rescue them from their own lack of foresight.
If I was out for lunch and some strange woman made vapid moo eyes at me, I'd look upon it as an invitation to embrace the tar baby, no good would ever come of it and the clean up would be long and painful.
Bob Mueller at August 26, 2018 1:25 PM
NicoleK has it right. One of the most appealing/attractive qualities in a woman in...interest! Truth is, most men have a much broader spectrum of interest in women than most women things. Often our "standards" come down to a simple binary: those who show an interest, and those who don't.
The multiple eye-contact thing is gold. One glance might be an accident, the smile just politeness. The look-back-again, with the deeper smile says, "interest." In these uncertain times, a woman who can show an obvious interest is a relief to guys.
Steve G at November 26, 2018 3:39 AM
Lots of females like to collect ego trips. Get a man they pick, to come over , make an invitation , and then she cuts him off . She just wanted the ego trip. Women need to take responsibility , in dating , not continue to be sexist.
John at July 18, 2020 1:32 PM
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