Twisted Sister-In-Law
Most of the advice requests I answer never make my column, either because they aren't requests for love, sex, dating, or relationship advice (the focus of my column), or because they're too boring or because I've answered a thousand like them before.
Here'sa type I get a lot of -- people complaining that some jerk in their life is acting...surprise, surprise...like a jerk. A woman e-mailed me this question Wednesday afternoon:
Husband’s sister calls and says she wants to come visit our family for a vacation, but will only bring 1 of her 2 children (ages 7 and 8) as “it is too expensive” to fly both of her kids to our state. She is a multi-millionaire and the $250 plane ticket is totally a non-issue. She tells us her son, who she did not chose to come, was sobbing for hours when he found out he couldn’t come to visit. My husband and I were pretty upset that a mother would make choices like this, essentially choosing one child over another. She does this fairly frequently and, according to her, the non-chosen child is distraught for days over not being included. For whatever reason, she and her husband think it is perfectly normal for their children to be separated on vacations in order to spend quality time with one or the other parent. This isn't a case of spending quality time going out for ice cream or to a movie--we are talking a full-fledged vacation here.My reply:
My husband and I talk it over and decide that we will offer to pay for the other child to visit us as as well, hoping that she will see how ludicrous her "too expensive" claim is and reject our offer. Sister quickly accepts our offer. A day later sister calls and begs my husband to accompany them on a 2 day ski trip while she is visiting. Her plans include putting both of her children in ski school programs which cost $250 a day per child. We are totally blown away by her actions. My husband now does not want her to come as he is really upset at her. What would you do if you were him (I’m trying to let brother and sister settle this one)?
This woman is a complete jerk. You know this. To expect her to act like a reasonable person is entirely unreasonable. Either accept that she's going to behave like a total asshole and don't get angry about it or cut down or cut off your contact with her. Again, for your husband to be upset at a known jerk for acting like a jerk is kind of like me getting angry with my dog because she didn't e-mail me to tell me the light over the porch went out. Hope this helps. Best,-Amy
The LW should email the link to this page to s-i-l. I'll come over w/ popcorn for everyone and we can watch the brawl that will surely ensue.
Gretchen at January 10, 2008 6:36 AM
Cool, I'll bring the vodka-laced Fresca. Fun for everyone! S-I-L sounds like a real tool.
Flynne at January 10, 2008 6:40 AM
People who are assholes are the last to recognize their asshole-ishness, even when it's smeared across their face.
Amy Alkon at January 10, 2008 6:42 AM
When ever I run across assholes I always pull out my favorite Space Ghost Coast to Coast quote
"I'm sorry, I dont have anymore time for you"
lujlp at January 10, 2008 8:09 AM
"I'm sorry, I dont have anymore time for you"
What a great line, and how appropriate to use when talking to an obnoxious ex! o_O
Flynne at January 10, 2008 8:54 AM
How is she putting both children in ski school when she's only bringing one of them?
Am I missing something?
Conan the Grammarian at January 10, 2008 11:19 AM
She decided to bring both kids after the letter writer and her husband said they'd pony up the $250 for the flight, thinking she'd turn them down and pay for it herself.
Amy Alkon at January 10, 2008 11:22 AM
If her in laws are as well off as she made them out to be I would have told them
"I dont have the time or temperment to deal with cheapskate assholes like you, go to hell an dont bother stopping by until you can afford to buy a heart and possibly a soul and you stop treating your children like shit"
lujlp at January 10, 2008 11:30 AM
Woah, lujlp. Harsh. But do you think it would have any effect? o_O
Flynne at January 10, 2008 11:47 AM
The sister-in-law most likely assumed that bringing both children would be an inconvenience on her hosts, and therefore chose to bring only one. She used "too expensive" as an excuse, not wanting to pressure the brother and wife.
When the offer was made to pay to bring the second child, she was probably relieved to hear that both children were indeed welcome. She most likely didn't offer to pay afterwards because it would have made her either look like she was going back on her "too expensive" claim, or simply didn't think of it since, to her, $250 is not a lot of money.
She may or may not be an asshole, but I don't think that's the explianation for her behavior here.
Morbideus at January 10, 2008 1:26 PM
The sister-in-law most likely assumed that bringing both children would be an inconvenience on her hosts, and therefore chose to bring only one.
Highly doubt that. She says the woman does this "fairly frequently." Not just in this situation. You can't just skim these letters. You really have to pay attention.
Amy Alkon at January 10, 2008 2:04 PM
Morbideus, if you have any remaining doubts that this woman is a total asshole, I suggest you visit the following site and read all about the world of total assholes and their pathetic, enabling doormats. It's depressingly funny: http://www.etiquettehell.com
GMan at January 10, 2008 5:08 PM
The sister-in-law most likely assumed that bringing both children would be an inconvenience on her hosts
I've known people who have left *all* of their children at home because they assumed said children would be an inconvenience, but from a host's point of view, two children about the same age, with about the same level of good/bad behavior, don't represent a significant level of inconvenience over a one-child-visiting situation. Not to mention the fact that the LW - the host - seems to have no thought whatsoever of the kids being too inconvenient when in a pair. These parents could always stay in a hotel during their visit if they feel that they'd represent an unacceptable inconvenience as a whole family, but leaving a 7-year-old or 8-year-old home while the rest of the family, including the other similar-aged kid, goes off on a fun vacation, "just because," is cruel.
marion at January 10, 2008 5:18 PM
I am the LW for the above blog. I have to say, I am genuinely thankful for all the interest in my email to advicegoddess. I never imagined so many people would write in response. I am not exaggerating when I say my husband's sister is very well off financially. After thinking a lot more about her behavior, my husband and I have concluded that she probably did not want to have both kids in tow with her on "her" vacation. We remembered the last vacation we went on with her that she point blank told her kids to leave her alone and not to bug her since it was her vacation too or they would be punished. So, guess what they did, they bugged our family for days on end while mom and dad lounged at the pool for hours each day. Having only 1 child while she visits us would be easy to pawn off I suppose, but 2 would be harder. Husband is having a conversation with her about expense statement and is telling her no about skiing.
letterwriter at January 10, 2008 7:13 PM
LW, your husband's sister may be well off financially, but when it comes to being a mom, I think she's just way "off", based on this statement: We remembered the last vacation we went on with her that she point blank told her kids to leave her alone and not to bug her since it was her vacation too or they would be punished. To child, that's almost like saying "I don't love you." Her poor kids. Some people just shouldn't have them. Maybe your husband should suggest parenting classes. She seems to not be very good at it.
Flynne at January 11, 2008 5:36 AM
LW: Your tongue must be in shreds from having to bite it so often. She seems incredibly self-centered, self-indulgent with a large dose of entitlement. Which is fine...except for when you have two children.
You have my sympathy for sure. Are you planning on cutting communication w/ her or will you just continue to bite your tongue for the sake of family (...talking about it isn't an option b/c as Amy said: she'll never get it)?
Gretchen at January 11, 2008 5:43 AM
I have to agree with Flynne about the assessment that some people shouldn't have children. Pity they're not all as honest with themselves as Amy is and don't have them instead of having them and constantly punishing them for existing. I cringed when I read that about telling them to leave her alone on "her" vacation. The poor kids. They didn't ask to be born.
Donna at January 11, 2008 6:38 AM
To hear these parents tell it, they are the best parents out there as they are teaching their children to play independently, think independently, and to take responsbility for themselves. The parents treat their kids like they are adults when they, to me, are still very young. Once the 8 year old (then 5) came home using curse words he learned from a much older and troubled neighbor boy, and rather than limit his contact with this boy, they tried to let their son learn responsibility the hard way by talking to him about the cussing, but letting him still play with the kid. After about a year of continuing to get in trouble (even in school), and being confined to his bedroom for multiple weekends, they finally took our advice and stopped him from playing with the child. Guess what, no more trouble. The bottom line is they have pretty high expectations for their children, which may be why they think the kids can entertain themselves while on vacation. BTW, husband had a conversation with sister about the ski trip, told her no, and she was very very upset, saying her kids wanted desperately to learn to ski.
LW at January 11, 2008 8:43 AM
LW: I'm curious as far as her being a multi-millionaire. Dis she make the money or marry it? Based on her behavior I'm going to take a shot in the dark that she married/inherited it. Also did you offer to pay for the ticket or was it an offer to pay for the second child out-right? One more thing I'd like to point out. How much she's worth may have no bearing on how much money she has on hand. If all those multiple millions are in certain types of accounts she can't touch them without sever penalties. If all her assets are in real estate then she may not actually be worth anything cause the market is shit. She may be mortgaged to the hilt and still look like a millionaire. She could also be an utterly selfish bitch.
I have a family friend who after a 2 week vacation without her kids comes home and tells her son that she needs mommy time to her self.
"as they are teaching their children to play independently, think independently, and to take responsibility for themselves. " This translates into: I had nothing to do with raising the child so if they become a serial killer it wasn't my fault. If they are successful then I gave them the independence they needed to succeed. Kudos for me either way.
vlad at January 11, 2008 9:34 AM
What is stopping this woman from doing the ski thing without your husband? She's laying off her own responsibility to her kids onto you. As best I can tell, all you said was that your husband wouldn't go. I'd just say she's welcome to do the two day ski trip with her kids, but that hubby can't go -- if she chooses not to, its her that is letting the kids down. She may not hear it, but that goes back to what Amy said. If she is a jerk, its unreasonable to expect her to behave any other way.
When I was a single mom, my 6 year old son and I flew across the country and did a two week road trip in an unfamiliar province. I was astounded by the reactions I got from EVERY other family we ran into along the way: How brave I was to go on a vacation on my own with a child. Apparently many parents don't feel capable of handling their kid(s) on their own. Maybe she knows she's incapable of handling more than one at a time away from home? Again, not a good endorsement for her qualification as a parent, but it's apparently not that unusual!
More generally speaking, I believe there is some validity to asking for a bit of quiet time on a vacation, even when you're with your kids. How you arrange it may be in question, but kids do have to learn that the world does not revolve around them. We plan out our days so everyone gets to enjoy some activity. If there are complaints/interruptions to an "adult" activity, kid will be reminded about compromise and that the vacation is for everyone.
I also think there is validity to the idea of teaching children to play/think independently and take responsibility for themselves. Where it fails is when the parents don't initiate consequences to poor behavior. As a parent, you shouldn't wait all the way to the kid being arrested as the consequence. While they are young, you impose lesser consequences so they learn the idea of cause and effect. If they understand what behaviours will lead to what consequences they will make decisions accordingly (even if we don't approve/like them).
.moreta at January 11, 2008 10:25 AM
I suppose nothing is stopping her from going on the ski trip alone. However, she has always had access to our cars during her trips, and my husband does not want her driving our unfamiliar car in the snow. Travelling with both children has never been an issue for her before. Last year, she went to Germany for 2 weeks with just her and her kids. I really believe she wants an easy trip for herself, never mind the fact that the other child would be sitting at home wondering what he did wrong to not go on vacation. And, certainly, I am all for quiet time on vacation, just not days on end, literally expecting someone else to watch your children. Finally, while my husband and I have very firm guidelines with our own children, our expectations fall within very age-appropriate guidelines. Expecting a 5 year old to self-monitor friendships and fully comprehend complex societal responsibilities is completely unfair to the child, and which just sets them up for failure. These expectations would work with a much older child with more maturity and the ability to apply reasoning. That is why I said earlier, they tend to treat these small children like they are adults, which they aren't. This is way off my original post, but I hope gives some background into this person's way of life. It's sad, now that I look back on all the posts, her children are the ones who end up suffering throughout all of this.
LW at January 11, 2008 1:59 PM
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