What's Your Bet On Whether Little Girls Want "Average" Or Barbie?
Some guy is crowd-funding a doll with "reasonably standard human body proportions -- as opposed to the exaggerated dimensions of Barbie," reports the BBC:
American artist Nickolay Lamm created a prototype of a Barbie-like doll last year based on US government measurements for an average 19-year-old American woman and the response was huge.
If average sold, women's magazines would be filled with housewives instead of top models.
I think parents will buy this doll (with the weird widely-spaced eyes and an unattractively waistless look in the red dress) but I think their little girls will beg for Barbie instead.
What's next? Comic book superhero "averageman"? He can run 100 yards in fifteen seconds flat. He can lift fifty pounds, if he warms up properly and is sure to lift with his legs and not his back. He can leap sidewalk curbs in a single bound . . . most of the time.
thewriterinblack at March 6, 2014 11:02 AM
I've got 3 girls. Stick a glittery outfit on her and some cute accessories and they absolutely won't care she doesn't have fantasy porn star measurements. Girls like the glitter. They don't care about the boobs and tiny waist. The problem with these sorts of toys is they put average clothes on them, not the fun stuff.
thewriterinblack, the huge muscles are part and parcel of what the superheroes DO. If a doll was supposed to have some sort of superlactating superpower, then huge boobs would make sense. Otherwise? Not so much. And there has been a huge movement away from believable body types for superheroes in the last 50 years, too. They weren't always musclebound hulks.
momof4 at March 6, 2014 11:26 AM
Ahhhh, that timeless, and ever so handy, human trait: denial. if you don't like something about yourself, or your friends, or the world around you, just deny it exists. Problem solved. The ostrich had the right idea after all. Like my wife denies her daughter lacks ambition. And her daughter denies she maxed out her credit cards, and I deny I'm not twenty any more. So much more pleasant than ugly reality. Same for shy wimpy guys who insist women should find them attractive. And overweight women who insist men should be attracted to their inner beauty. Reality is such a drag. Thank god for the super wonder drug of denial.
Jim Simon at March 6, 2014 12:05 PM
I must have seen the question asked somewhere, but I don't remember where: Is Barbie shaped like that to exaggerate feminine features, or to make her clothes look right?
But, whatevers. If whoever's marketing the new doll can sell it, more power to them. My daughters didn't really go through the Barbie phase, and they're kind of past that age now, anyway.
Old RPM Daddy (OldRPMDaddy at GMail dot com) at March 6, 2014 12:26 PM
If the designer had used the average measurements from 40 years ago, I doubt the doll would be so "unattractively waistless". As any grade 12 class photo from that era will show, there was less, um, diversity of shape back then.
I do love those cornchild eyes, though. She's headed out to slay the world.
Lastango at March 6, 2014 12:30 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2014/03/06/whats_your_bet.html#comment-4337295">comment from momof4The problem with these sorts of toys is they put average clothes on them, not the fun stuff.
Appreciate your point of view on this, momof4.
Amy Alkon at March 6, 2014 12:49 PM
I totally agree, momof4. My 4-year-old wants a fairy princess, not Miniature Mommy. Heck, she'll want a doll with Paula Deen's hair measurements if it has wings and a tiara.
Sosij at March 6, 2014 1:38 PM
The real problem will come in marketing. Sure there will be niche parents that buy... just like there are niche parents to buy the genderless stuff...
But socialjustice™ isn't a business plan. Are clothes interchangable with Braatz, Barbie, or Mosnster High?
That means you gotta have a full line, and you have to remember that a doll is about accentuating things, so what's the hook? easy to change hair, makeup that shows in warm water? 85K points of articulation?
Daughter has kinda grown outta this phase, but still has her barbs, most of which were garage sale finds, along with the wreck of the barbi ferarri, the jet playset and others...
I have a REAL hard time believing that children pay much attention to the SCALE of things, or the proportions, especially of fictitious people. Is the dollie she can cradle when she's 4, really life sized? Is GI Joe a scale model? How about Darth Vader?
Some of the EvoPsych studies about what we value in hip/waist/bust ratios rings true in barbie, EVEN IF it isn't as true in real life...
So what does that mean? Is it the fault of the designer? Is it just too close to real life, and that's the issue? Monster High, is obviously NOT because hey, monsters, bratz isn't either, cuz, hey caricatures.
All these have what boya lacks and that is a solid trackrecord of marketing, and a PLAN.
And? Barbie was certainly a product of the 50's in design stage... look at what else was around.
http://www.businesspundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ads-4.jpg
It's only Offensesensitivity, after all.
SwissArmyD at March 6, 2014 1:45 PM
Yup cloths are generally ugly. Not seeing anything wrong with the shape of the doll though. The obesity issue a function of bad diet and lots of ass sitting not what dolls you play with. The doll body type is normal, not average but normal for humans. Amy if your head lights (on a monitored computer) were smaller your waist would appear very different in pictures. Pretty well documented that proportions are a big part of visual appeal.
The big issue is that if you are naturally a size 8 then no you won't be a size 2-0. Not without starving yourself or other extremes. However no one is normally a size 24 unless you have giantism. Same goes for guys. You may not look like Tom Brady no matter how hard you work at it but if you are wearing 50" pants that's your own fault. I used to and yup totally completely and irredeemably my own damn fault. Diet change and wow surprise down to 36-38. Now I have a certain build so ballet is just out. No matter what I do I'll look like a damn ogre in black shrink wrap. I accept and moved on but that didn't justify packing a 50" waist.
Vlad at March 6, 2014 1:52 PM
with the weird widely-spaced eyes
Thanks for that. I knew there was something...off about her. Otherwise, I'd say she's cute enough, but then again I'm not their target demographic.
Side note: I OD'd on blondes in my earlier years, so they don't have much sway on me any more.
I R A Darth Aggie at March 6, 2014 2:00 PM
@Momof4The problem with these sorts of toys is they put average clothes on them, not the fun stuff.
And here's where M4 nails it. I have no idea how important the "average" body will be to children who play with the dolls. I'll leave that squabble to others. What I think is more important is what this doll is supposed to represent. I'll suggest here that most play is aspirational, at least a little. I certainly knew that I'd never by an astronaut or an adventurer like G.I. Joe or Action Jackson. I knew I'd never ride in Major Matt Mason's Space Crawler. But knowing that never kept me from playing with them, or dreaming.
If you search on Miss Alkon's Amazon portal for "Barbie Careers," you can find outfits or playsets for Barbie to undertake the following professions:
There are about 20 pages of results. I quit looking after Page 4. What aspirations does the new doll serve? Will she have glamorous clothes? Can you make her President? Or will this average doll be a cube rat, barrista, or assistant manager, with frumpy outfits from Target or Kohl's?
Old RPM Daddy (OldRPMDaddy at GMail dot com) at March 6, 2014 2:00 PM
Just wanted to co-sign what momof4 said.
I was mad about dolls when I was a kid, including Barbies. But I LOVED the American Girl dolls, whose faces were pretty average and whose bodies were designed to look like a "regular" girl. What I loved, though, were the clothes -- the gorgeous 1700s ball gowns, the lacy dresses and the awesome hats and the ribbons galore.
Heck, she'll want a doll with Paula Deen's hair measurements if it has wings and a tiara.
This made me laugh. Cabbage Patch kid dolls are downright ugly, but you can bet I had the fairy version.
sofar at March 6, 2014 3:30 PM
The talkie version of this says attractive things like, "He should love me the way I am", while doing the neighbor and the pool boy, and comes with sweatpants and flip-flops.
Meanwhile, Barbie is real.
Radwaste at March 6, 2014 3:45 PM
Egads, those clothes are hideous. The doll looks perfectly fine.
Why are they assuming "average" women don't know how to dress?
Daghain at March 6, 2014 5:47 PM
"I must have seen the question asked somewhere, but I don't remember where: Is Barbie shaped like that to exaggerate feminine features, or to make her clothes look right?"
She's a fashion doll. Think of her as the three dimensional version of the sketches fashion designers make when brainstorming a new dress. Not even the models have those weird proportions.
So her proportions are because it makes fancy clothes look fancier.
"What's next? Comic book superhero "averageman"?"
This is going to keep me on Google all night until I find the answer, but there actually is a comic book character who is the only "normal" person on a planet of superheroes. And I can't remember his name or the title of the series to save my life right now.
Elle at March 6, 2014 6:37 PM
search - normal person on planet of super heros
milo at March 6, 2014 7:04 PM
I can't get over the weird joints at the wrists and ankles. It makes it look like a Barbie wearing a fat suit.
As far as the measurements, my stepmother (who sewed many a Barbie dress in her day) is convinced that Barbie is shaped the way she is to make the clothes look better/hang better? She claims that if you're going to have a doll that size with any sort of recognizable bust and waist, it would have to be pretty close to Barbie-proportions or else it would be nigh on impossible for the clothes to be anything but shapeless. I hardly sew at all, and can't fathom sewing teensy cotillion gowns like stepmother did, so I don't know, but it makes sense. Looking at the pictures above, it seems even more likely---most 19-year-olds have a waist! Average proportions just don't translate into doll size well.
Jenny Had A Chance at March 6, 2014 7:32 PM
Barbie's clothes add about half an inch, which is like adding 3 inches to a person.
I will probably buy this doll in addition to Barbie. Actually, the new barbies suck. The legs aren't made out of that good, bendable vinyl anymore but out of cheap hollow plastic and you can't bend them. Also her boobs are smaller. NOTHING on Barbie needed to be smaller.
I'm thinking girls who have this doll will make this doll play the role of Barbie's mom.
NicoleK at March 7, 2014 12:17 AM
Sofar, they've discontinued Felicity and her ballgowns. The current ones aren't as cool, though I like the New Orleans ones. To me, though, the modern dolls are kinda pointless, the historical fancy dress aspect was the whole point.
Won't be getting one for my kid as we live in Switzerland so all her friends won't be getting them.
NicoleK at March 7, 2014 12:19 AM
As for kids and whether its the doll or the clothes that is important... let me just say I made a princess dress for my kid's TRex and my kid thinks her TRex is the most beautiful princess ever.
NicoleK at March 7, 2014 12:21 AM
Newsflash- the average American woman today is overweight.
Average these days doesn't mean healthy.
zann at March 7, 2014 12:44 AM
Where are the obese Barbie's? Let's have a bit more reality here. While we're are it, obese Ken and transsexual Barbie/Ken dolls. How about Barbie/Ken dolls who inject heroine - yeah, that's the ticket.
Venicementor at March 7, 2014 7:31 AM
If had had this doll as a child, she would have been Barbie's unfortunate friend (who got the ugliest clothes), or the doll assigned to my least favored playmate if we were "playing Barbie." That was the fate of off-brand Barbies.
Barbie is a fashion doll, designed to look preternaturally stunning in clothing. That was the whole point of Barbie originally: You were supposed to keep buying her fashions, which cost nearly as much as real clothes.
There are already dolls designed for family play, with women who look like typical mothers: Fisher Price Little People, Playmobile, etc.
Insufficient Poison at March 7, 2014 8:56 AM
Sofar, they've discontinued Felicity and her ballgowns.
@ NicoleK I heard! I still have the doll, all the clothes, and a bunch of her furniture, and based on what I've seen on Ebay, I could make some money off of it. But I'm too sentimental to sell it all.
sofar at March 7, 2014 11:35 AM
"She claims that if you're going to have a doll that size with any sort of recognizable bust and waist, it would have to be pretty close to Barbie-proportions or else it would be nigh on impossible for the clothes to be anything but shapeless. "
Yep, that's one of the problems: Fabric has a certain weave and stiffness; it wants to lay certain ways, and that doesn't scale down to doll size. Even Spandex isn't going to deomonstrate a 1/8" waist curvature.
This is mean, but long ago, at a place I worked, there was a woman who like to wear tube dresses. We're talking fabric drinking straws with sleeves; no tailoring whatsoever. And further, most of them had huge loud floral patterns. I have no idea why she did this; in normal clothes she wsa a pretty lady, but some of her outfits were the most hideous things I have ever seen on any human being, male or female -- utterly shapeless with eye-wateringly bright color splotches. We used to say, "She's wearing the curtains today", or "What's she got on today? The tablecloth?"
Cousin Dave at March 7, 2014 12:31 PM
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