9 Reasons Why Raising Minimum Wage Is A Terrible Idea
Ira Stoll lays out the points at reason. Here are a few:
1. It's a big country. The costs of living, especially housing, vary widely in America from state to state and city to city. If the point of raising the minimum wage is to provide a "living wage," why should the minimum wage in low-cost areas such as Texas or Oklahoma be the same as in high-cost areas such as San Francisco or Manhattan?5. It's not clear that it's constitutional. The Supreme Court, in its opinion in the 1923 case Adkins v. Children's Hospital of District of Columbia, made a strong argument that a minimum wage was a violation of the constitutionally guaranteed freedom of contract embedded in the Fifth Amendment's language about due process and the deprivation of liberty and property: "To the extent that the sum fixed exceeds the fair value of the services rendered, it amounts to a compulsory exaction from the employer for the support of a partially indigent person, for whose condition there rests upon him no peculiar responsibility, and therefore, in effect, arbitrarily shifts to his shoulders a burden which, if it belongs to anybody, belongs to society as a whole." The Court later, in the 1937 case West Coast Hotel v. Parrish, reversed Adkins by a five to four margin. But maybe the court was right the first time around.
6. Even if the freedom of contract isn't protected by the Constitution, it's a natural right that should not be infringed. As President Kennedy put it in his inaugural address, "the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God." If two free people want to enter into a voluntary, consensual agreement that doesn't infringe on anyone else's rights, why should the government stop them? If someone wants to work for $5 an hour, and someone wants to hire that person for that much, and no one is forcing either one of them to enter into the agreement, by what authority does government step in and stop them?
8. It would reduce the incentive for low-wage workers to get an education and move up to a higher-paying job. The lower the minimum wage, the more eager a minimum wage worker would be to enroll in a community college course at night, improve his or her skills, and apply for a higher-paying job. Making the entry-level jobs higher paying increases the risk that workers will get stuck in them for longer instead of moving on to something more rewarding.
"It would reduce the incentive for low-wage workers to get an education and move up to a higher-paying job. The lower the minimum wage, the more eager a minimum wage worker would be to enroll in a community college course at night, improve his or her skills, and apply for a higher-paying job. Making the entry-level jobs higher paying increases the risk that workers will get stuck in them for longer instead of moving on to something more rewarding."
Yeah, poor people spend their lives struggling to pay for decent food, healthcare, rent, transportation.
But for some reason they put that aside when it comes to going night school at community college! You just can't stop them from going! That's why so many poor people have so many college degrees.
bs123 at March 17, 2014 1:56 AM
This is all TOTAL NONSENSE, for the following reason:
Federal setting of a minimum-wage sets the value of one hour of work.
There is no way to change the unit, "one hour of work", so what this does is devalue the dollar. Nothing more.
Radwaste at March 17, 2014 4:22 AM
This reminds me of the "glass floor" that MRAs complain of - that women want jobs that pay well, but they aren't eager to do those highly dangerous jobs that men traditionally do.
Funny, last I heard, women don't exactly get a friendly welcome when they DO apply for such dangerous jobs. More to the point: Men aren't clamoring to do those minimum-wage jobs that happen to be safe and female-dominated (and plenty of MW jobs are NOT safe, as in sweatshops or late-night shifts in liquor stores).
Bottom line: If many women aren't willing or able to do certain dangerous, high-paying jobs, well, men who can't get a safe, high-paying job probably aren't qualified either, so why don't they work on that instead of whining?
lenona at March 17, 2014 6:46 AM
"Men aren't clamoring to do those minimum-wage jobs that happen to be safe and female-dominated (and plenty of MW jobs are NOT safe, as in sweatshops or late-night shifts in liquor stores)."
Lenona, you seem to be well on your way to becoming a full-fledged postmodern feminist. I challenge you to find any minimum-wage job in the U.S. today, in any field, where women outnumber men. Certainly not around here: from LPNs to restaurant wait staff, everywhere I go the staff is at least half male. Teenage girls that used to work in restaurant jobs are just about gone, whereas teenage boys are plentiful. I will grant you that most receptionist-type positions are still women, but (1) they are mostly older women, and (2) it's a job category that is disappearing. As the older women who hold those jobs retire, they are not replaced.
And if women who apply for high-danger jobs have a rough time, it's because, you know, they are applying for high-danger jobs. People who work those types of jobs are trusting their lives to their co-workers. They have to gauge the trustworthiness of any newbie, be it male or female, and that process inevitably involves a certain amount of harassment and stress. Who's going to freeze in fear when they're in a harness on top of a 300-foot tower? That's a judgement you have to get right the first time, because if you get it wrong there might not be a second time.
Cousin Dave at March 17, 2014 7:10 AM
You just can't stop them from going! That's why so many poor people have so many college degrees.
Oh, how doth thou misseth the point? if you're in the same minimum wage job for 3 years (and probably closer to 1) and you haven't had a raise, you either aren't a particularly good employee or you're incapable of learning the skills necessary to move up to the next rung in the ladder.
Of course, you're completely ignoring the minor detail that a 10% increase in minimum wage equates to 1% decrease in the number of minimum wage jobs. Obama is proposing a 30% increase. I'll let you do the math.
Then there's whole mess of people above the minimum wage finding that their salary doesn't go as far as it used to. At some point, they'll have to go the boss and say "I need a pay raise" just to keep up. And then you'll be back to whine that the minimum wage isn't a living wage...
I R A Darth Aggie at March 17, 2014 7:17 AM
Also: why shouldn't the minimum wage be raised to $25/hour? or $50 or $100??
Absurd, you say? why yes, yes it is.
I R A Darth Aggie at March 17, 2014 7:19 AM
The other thing with raising minimum wage is that employers have to pay minimum wage.
Employers can't afford the cost, so it's either cut workers, or force consumers (who are now out of a job because their employers couldn't afford some staff either...) to pay the increased cost of wages, which kills business, which forces employers to cut jobs, which kills other businesses because those employees can't afford to shop there anymore, etc etc etc etc etc etc.
It killed the job market in Ottawa. Up here the saying goes in Ottawa, if you don't work for the government, you're a drug dealer.
wtf at March 17, 2014 7:29 AM
I challenge you to find any minimum-wage job in the U.S. today, in any field, where women outnumber men. Certainly not around here: from LPNs to restaurant wait staff, everywhere I go the staff is at least half male. Teenage girls that used to work in restaurant jobs are just about gone, whereas teenage boys are plentiful. I will grant you that most receptionist-type positions are still women, but (1) they are mostly older women, and (2) it's a job category that is disappearing. As the older women who hold those jobs retire, they are not replaced.
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So you're saying that the America portrayed in Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickel and Dimed" is practically nonexistent by now? Did you read it at all? How about housecleaners and garment-industry workers? What's the deal with Walmart these days? (I wouldn't know; I've never shopped there - yard sales are just as good if not better.) Also, why would receptionists become obsolete?
Maybe things are different in just YOUR part of the country, same as on another occasion?
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And if women who apply for high-danger jobs have a rough time, it's because, you know, they are applying for high-danger jobs. People who work those types of jobs are trusting their lives to their co-workers. They have to gauge the trustworthiness of any newbie, be it male or female, and that process inevitably involves a certain amount of harassment and stress. Who's going to freeze in fear when they're in a harness on top of a 300-foot tower? That's a judgement you have to get right the first time, because if you get it wrong there might not be a second time.
Posted by: Cousin Dave at March 17, 2014 7:10 AM
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I don't quite follow. How does harassing your new co-workers, male or female, help ensure your own safety in a dangerous job? It clearly doesn't. (Being a stern instructor who's helping a newbie learn everything is not harassment, of course - but it doesn't give that instructor the right to harass, either.)
lenona at March 17, 2014 9:22 AM
"Being a stern instructor who's helping a newbie learn everything is not harassment, of course"
Actually, under post-modern feel-goodism, it is. Army instructors I've talked to have all told me that washing out a female soldier who can't master the material or skills being taught is impossible -- it invariably results in a a harassment charge against the instructor.
Cousin Dave at March 17, 2014 9:34 AM
I was thinking of places like construction sites, not the military. (How many workplaces are SUPPOSED to have the bosses screaming at ALL new employees, even the best newbies, in order to improve them?)
But anyway, from 2006 (I may have quoted this before, so maybe you can guess who wrote it):
"Heather Boushey, an economist with the Center for Economic Policy and Research, noted that women students take out more loans than their male classmates, even though a BA does less to increase their income. The sacrifice would make sense, though, if the BA made the crucial difference between respectable security and a lifetime as a waitress or a file clerk."
lenona at March 17, 2014 9:53 AM
Raising the minimum wage will allow you to punch in your own order at Burger King or Wendy's and the rest of the fast food places. Why do you think Wawa went to that for their sub shop.
And you're still going to get a rise in the cost of the food. Because if you raise the minimum wage it isn't just the clerks and cooks at the fast food joint that are going to get raises, it's going to be the employee at the slaughter house for the beef and chicken. The people who are processing the bags of potatoes to fries and cooking up the vats of taco meat that are in the plastic bags used by Taco Bell.
That means the those prices are going to go up too.
And the two year team lead at the fast food joint that has had raises to $9.25. Do you think they'll be happy to go to $10.10 along with the newbie that was hired last week? Or are they going to want more?
So raising the minimum wage effects everyone of us.
Jim P. at March 17, 2014 11:37 AM
Actually, under post-modern feel-goodism, it is. Army instructors I've talked to have all told me that washing out a female soldier who can't master the material or skills being taught is impossible -- it invariably results in a a harassment charge against the instructor.
Posted by: Cousin Dave at March 17, 2014 9:34 AM
Back at the Field Artillery OBC in the 1980's, there wasn't one graduate commissioned from a certain set of schools classed as historically black colleges, who passed the course without a waiver. We all knew it.
AND Lenona, the reason women aren't exactly given a warm welcome in those dangerous high paid jobs you are talking about is because, 1 . People that cant do the job due to lack of upper body strength are endangering their fellow employees.
2. People that need to be rescued when they cant hack it, create a burden on the company and the other employees.
Isab at March 17, 2014 1:23 PM
What makes you think those are the MAIN reasons they encounter hostility in general? (Not all dangerous jobs require upper-body strength anyway.) I realize that "North Country" is only a movie, but it certainly suggested, at least, that those weren't the main reasons for the horrible treatment women got in the Minnesota mines. A lot of people still think they're entitled to certain jobs before they're even adults - and that other qualified people are "stealing" when they get the jobs.
lenona at March 17, 2014 4:49 PM
Here in LA, you can find a couple of dozen people who will do any job for much less than the minimum wage, provided they get paid in cash. Minimum wage jobs require no skill, no training and/or no talent. These aren't jobs that let the worker raise a family. The Feds can raise the minimum wage to $1000 an hour, and there will still be people who work for $.05.
KateC at March 17, 2014 8:54 PM
What makes you think those are the MAIN reasons they encounter hostility in general? (Not all dangerous jobs require upper-body strength anyway.) I realize that "North Country" is only a movie, but it certainly suggested, at least, that those weren't the main reasons for the horrible treatment women got in the Minnesota mines. A lot of people still think they're entitled to certain jobs before they're even adults - and that other qualified people are "stealing" when they get the jobs.
Posted by: lenona at March 17, 2014 4:49 PM
Lenona, why do you seem to get most of your information about what dangerous high paying jobs require out of made for TV movies?
Is it possible you think these straw man drama set ups represent reality (as opposed to fiction designed to entertain primarily poorly educated women and teenage girls?)
Please name a job you think is both dangerous and high paying, and I will be glad to point out the tasks that require more strength than even fit women have in their hands and arms and shoulders.
That 20 percent greater muscle mass in men is no joke.
I can change a tire on a trailer but it takes me three times as long as a guy to do it, and I am beat afterwards.
Isab at March 17, 2014 11:12 PM
Lenona, why do you seem to get most of your information about what dangerous high paying jobs require out of made for TV movies?
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Er, what? "North Country" WASN'T a made-for-TV movie, not by a long shot. (It was based on a true story and starred Charlize Theron, who was nominated for an Oscar for her role.)
And while I'm sure there are cases of harassment that are AGGRAVATED by rumors among men that women always need help on "that" job, it doesn't change the fact that men who are ethnically different from the norm are often very badly treated by other men for reasons that have nothing to do with their being qualified, so why wouldn't the same be true for women?
BTW, anyone who's read "Kitchen Confidential" by Anthony Bourdain will know that THOSE jobs can be pretty dangerous, what with the fast pace, boiling-hot containers, knives and all, but while he did say, in effect, that women have to have a thick skin and a rather macho attitude to succeed in that business, I don't recall his saying anything about most women not having certain physical strengths needed. I DO remember his mentioning a female line cook who "managed to hold down a busy saute station while seven months pregnant - and still find time to provide advice and comfort to a romantically unhappy broiler man."
lenona at March 18, 2014 6:45 AM
Lenona,
I thought this topic was about the minimum wage... I am confused how in your mind it became a discussion about gender.
In what way would the minimum wage affect women and men differently.
It seems to me that minimum wage policy doesn't take into account biological factors.
Is there a particular reason you want this discussion to have a different focus?
Artemis at March 18, 2014 7:31 AM
"Here in LA, you can find a couple of dozen people who will do any job for much less than the minimum wage, provided they get paid in cash. "
That's the thing. The open market value of unskilled labor is what it is, no matter what the government says. A few years ago I did some digging and at the time it appeared to me that the market value of unskilled labor in the Western hemishpere was in the range of $3-4 per hour. I don't know what it is now; possibly it's gone down with the current state of the economy.
And I'll repeat my contention that any bill to raise the minimum wage should be titled the "Illlegal Aliens Full Employment Act". The types of people KateC talks about are nearly always Mexican illegals. They can work for under minimum wage becuase they have access to a tribal gray-market economy where all transactions are cash and no questions are asked, provided that you look, speak and act a certain way. American workers that would be willing to work for less than minimum wage can't do it because they don't have access to a gray network that shields them from government interference.
Cousin Dave at March 18, 2014 7:32 AM
Is there a particular reason you want this discussion to have a different focus?
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Not really....OK, it WAS wrong to change the subject. I was simply reminded of the fact that many people resent not being qualified for jobs that are both safe and pay better than minimum wage - but they don't want to accept that they're responsible for getting the qualifications they need instead of demanding a raise in the MW. (Or instead of complaining that the only other jobs - for them - are the dangerous ones.)
lenona at March 18, 2014 8:13 AM
@lenona. Ok you thought of one job, problem is line chef, is not particularly well paid.
I have read Kitchen Confidential. Bourdain is an ass, but an entertaining one.
And even high budget movies seldom reflect any kind of reality, and should not be used as a model for deciding how the world works.
Isab at March 18, 2014 1:13 PM
That one woman wasn't described as a chef, but the point is, HE's a chef; it's a dangerous job; and it may be safe to say that anyone who's earned the title of chef gets paid a good deal more than a mere cook.
And if you can remember his saying anywhere that chefs need certain physical strengths that most women don't have, tell me where.
lenona at March 18, 2014 6:34 PM
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