Shockingly, Miss Millennial,The Workplace Is About Work And Not Your Need To Wear Outfits That Show Your Sexy Originality
Via Julie Borowski at The Libertarian Republic, a girl goes on a rant about her job rejection over her inability to understand that one's precious originality and need to dress for clubs in daytime may not be an employer's priority.
As Borowski, apparently also a Millennial -- but a more realistic one -- also writes:
I hate to throw my own generation under the bus, but that status precisely sums up why employers hate hiring millenials. We're entitled. We're classless. We're wholly unprepared for the real life outside of college "safe spaces." (Oh my god. I sound so old. Where's my cane?!")How you present yourself matters. It says a lot about you. That might require investing in an outfit a step above Charlotte Russe and Forever 21 to get the job you want. This isn't patriarchal oppression. If a dude showed up wearing something "mildly sexual" for a job interview, he'd probably be escorted from the building. It just isn't the time or place for all that.
There's a really hilarious bit in there about the "ball and chain" women must "drag behind us." Which is her interpretation of the horrible requirement that work be about work and not about one's personal need to look goth in the workplace.
I suspect that this girl comes off in person as she does in a Facebook post: As an entitled drama queen. Yes, all of us who employ people are looking for just that in an employee.
Apparently she did not get the memo that, for the interview, it doesn't matter if everyone at the office is wearing t-shirts and jeans -- you need to dress up. You're not part of the club yet.
The outfit in the picture would be TOTALLY fine for day-to-day wear at my office (in Austin). But when we interview candidates, we still expect business formal attire. It's important to know that candidates CAN dress professionally when required, even though, today, I'm wearing a billowy tank top and skinny jeans (and some of my coworkers are wearing shorts). We've already proven ourselves. The young lady sitting in the HR person's office waiting to be interviewed, however, has not, and she is therefore wearing a pencil skirt and blouse.
sofar at April 21, 2015 6:17 AM
The real clues come in her LinkedIn Profile:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ebentivegna
Specifically, her stated goals:
I intend to continue increasing my skills as a scientist and as a motivated, socially conscious citizen of the world. I will graduate Oberlin College with a BA in Computer Science in December 2015, after which I will pursue a career in software engineering. Eventually I hope to found a video game studio that employs marginalized and underrepresented groups.
Emphasis mine. She's already proven that she's a bit of a drama queen and lacks judgement (NAMING and dissing a company that did not make an offer ??). And any manager would see that additional bit (and I'm betting it's on her resume as well) , and IMMEDIATELY have reservations.
Then there's the resume padding: she lists a laundry list of skills, but only shows any work-related experience in two of them. And if you check the comments in Julie Borowski's article, someone ALSO looked at her code in GitHub, and saw nothing interesting, innovative, or even difficult.
Excess self-esteem and proclivities to being a Social Justice Warrior are not pointers to business success.
And then there's her claim that the recruiter said it was because of her mode of dress. Sorry, not buying it: recruiters would NEVER say anything like that, it opens up lawsuits.
Here's to reality smacking this young lady upside the head with a clue-by-four. ..
Keith Glass at April 21, 2015 6:18 AM
Hmmm. I find it very hard to imagine that any employer these days would be so foolish as to share any opinion about the way a woman is dressed with anybody under any circumstances. never mind with a recruiter, who is absolutely-certain to repeat it to the prospect. The negative repercussions are just too awesomely bad to consider. Especially when there is absolutely no reason to do so.
Oh, she's from Oberlin, and so presumably from Oberlin College? Then I don't believe any of this at all. Next.
llater,
llamas
llamas at April 21, 2015 6:21 AM
Google is your friend . . .
Sure enough, a senior at Oberlin.
But, more-tellingly, from the Cleveland Plain Dealer - she was late for the interview.
The Kiss Of Death.
I now double-don't-believe any of this at all.
Leaving that aside - how, exactly, do you get to be a senior at one of the most expensive and exclusive colleges in the nation and think that cussing out an employer who chose not to hire you - for whatever reason - is a good idea? Or fail to realize that what she has done on the Interwebtubes lives forever, and now any prospective employer will Google her, see this petulant and immature screed and go 'No, Thank You.' Apparently, common sense 101 is an elective at Oberlin.
llater,
llamas
llamas at April 21, 2015 6:32 AM
Keith has it on the money; the real reason she wasn't hired is likely they could smell a mile away she has an ideological ax to grind and that it would cause problems if they hired her .. likely she was determined to kick up victim-stink about something-or-other (because you can bet she'll find *something* to pretend to be a victim about, because oh, the patriarchy, ball and chain blah blah) long before the interview. Employers don't want some crazy destabilizing a cohesive professional software development team. For some reason the feminist cult seem to have decided recently that there is strategic value in setting their targets on the software development industry and this seems like yet another manufactured faux-drama designed to show supposed 'sexism' that isn't there. Why would someone who wants to work with 'marginalized and underrepresented groups' seek a job on "all-male" development team? I wouldn't be surprised if she made this story up. How does she even know their team is "all male", did she ask them during the interview? The worst of it she doesn't seem to care about *coding*.
The way she's dressed looks very conservative to me; I've seen Muslim women dress sexier than that.
Lobster at April 21, 2015 6:46 AM
"Why would [she] seek a job on "all-male" development team?"
Someone has to do the actual work.
dee nile at April 21, 2015 6:55 AM
Who tells you why you did not get the job? Stupid, if true. There were better candidates is the only acceptable, lawsuit proof answer.
I did not hire an idiot who showed up in a denim suit once. Checking him out with a friend in the business confirmed my summary judgement.
If and when she gets a job, it will be interesting to see how long this SJW Princess lasts.
MarkD at April 21, 2015 7:11 AM
Llamas has it right. On a bad ideas scale of 1-10, dressing like that is about a 2.5, being late for the interview a 5, and writing a post like that under her own name is about a 50.
kf at April 21, 2015 7:18 AM
Perhaps she should have just worn the heels and makeup, nothing else.
mer at April 21, 2015 7:22 AM
The seriousness in which she carried herself is the seriousness in which they took her. Plain as that.
Tuckerkitty at April 21, 2015 7:35 AM
Let's see...the last time I had to go to an interview I wore...a suit, probably including a tie. Sorry, it was a while ago, and I really hate throat stranglers. Maybe it was a banded collar, but it was definitely a dress shirt, and black shoes.
I've subsequently worn similar outfits to...weddings and funerals. And maybe that one time I won an award. So...in 16 years, you can count it on two hands.
One needs to dress to meet expectations. For HR, you need to look like a freakin' professional. Had she shown up to work with the dev team dressed the same way she did to the interview? probably wouldn't have been a peep.
I R A Darth Aggie at April 21, 2015 7:35 AM
She's an Oberliner? oh, that explains a great deal. At the first sign of "hey we need to get this code finished by 8am tomorrow, so we'll be here until its done or 8am rolls around" she would have needed a safe space.
And she showed up late to the interview? *face palm*
She could have done to read my rules for "standing head and shoulders above your peer group": show up on time (early is better), don't be a no call/no show, dress appropriately, be polite, be professional, have a plan to kill everyone you meet, do what the boss asks you as cheerfully and efficiently as you can manage, when you have nothing to do find something.
Ok, I may have cribbed some of that from General Mattis.
I R A Darth Aggie at April 21, 2015 7:43 AM
"Now get the hell out of my way while I find someone worthy of my time and abilities."
I've worked with folks with similar attitudes, it's really not fun. Thankfully they usually self-select themselves right out of our workplace. FWIW, I've dated a couple women like this, also really not fun.
Sucks to be her, tho, her post will be a cyber-millstone around her neck for a long, LONG time. Every potential employer doing a Google search, she might be flipping burgers for quite a while.
Wasn't there an Oberliner who was trying to create a feminist programming language? Wonder if she was involved with that?
bkmale at April 21, 2015 8:05 AM
The trouble is, dressing properly for an interview isn't even the hard part. I Googled the phrase "What should a woman wear to a job interview?" and came up with 14 million results. The only difficulty would have been in hunting for the clothes.
The hard part, at least for this person, seemed to be in understanding that when interviewing with a private firm, the firm's biggest question will be, "How can this applicant make us a lot of money?" If the applicant doesn't appear interested in doing that, he or she can't expect an offer.
Old RPM Daddy (OldRPMDaddy at GMail dot com) at April 21, 2015 8:10 AM
From The Daily Dot:
====================
She doesn't say she was late because a manure spreader jackknifed on the Santa Ana or that she ran out of gas, she had a flat tire she didn't have enough money for cab fare, her tux didn't come back from the cleaners, an old friend came in from out of town, someone stole her car, there was an earthquake, a terrible flood, locusts, or anything like that.
Nope, just that she told them she was running late. Well, that's okay dear. Your potential employer's time doesn't mean anything, so you go ahead and be late.
Conan the Grammarian at April 21, 2015 8:58 AM
> After a few weeks with no word, Bentivegna **followed up with the recruiter**. "She told me that OnShift would love to hire me based on my technical skills and personality, but that they were not going to. These are the reasons she cited: 1) I 'looked more like I was about to go clubbing than to an interview.' 2) **I 'had a huge run in my tights'** 3) I was late." (Bentivegna says she told them she was running late ahead of time.)
Who the hell knows what occurred. Did OnShift really complain about a run in her tights? Seems unlikely. Or was that the recruiter's message to her?
http://www.onshift.com/management-team
OnShift has enough long toothed executives that I doubt their managers and HR team are going to tell a recruiter her problem was a run in her tights.
FWIW, I don't find the outfit displayed all that horrendous for an interview. I still wear suits or at least a sports coat to interviews, but that's more and more seemingly like an anomaly that probably prevents more jobs than it creates. There really are tons of nerds bragging (rightfully so I guess) about getting their job while acting in the most arrogant manners, and wearing little more than jeans and some supposedly hip t shirt.
Then again she's in Cleveland so who knows.
(
> "Now get the hell out of my way while I find someone worthy of my time and abilities."
That's just millenial special snowflake grrl empowerment speaking, she's going to revolutionize the world with her mad node.js skillz rocking her skater skirts.
)
jerry at April 21, 2015 9:05 AM
Did she send a thank you e-mail after the interview?
I've worked with more than a few hiring managers for whom lack of follow up is a deal breaker.
Conan the Grammarian at April 21, 2015 9:37 AM
The problem with Ms. Bentivegna, and apparently many other women of her generation and cossetted "safe space" college experience, is that she carries with her an ingrained attitude which renders her completely non-responsible for anything that happens to her. It is always the fault of the patriarchy. She didn't get the job because she is a woman intereviewing at a male company. She was rejected because of the way she dressed. It is because she and all women carry this ball and chain, while men blithely get all sorts of high-paying and cushy jobs, just because they are men.
She and her cohorts are multiple lawsuits waiting to happen. All the idiocy that is currently going on in college campuses, is obviously going to be transferred to the workplace, when these students graduate. These women want what they want; and if they do not get it, it is men's fault, in the singular or general. And they'll keep writing about it, every time, to validate their own resentment and biases.
William at April 21, 2015 9:37 AM
I think the outfit is ugly, even if she was going clubbing. It looks like she put on a unitard then wrapped a bath towel around her waist, then threw an oversized cardigan over it. And the purse clashes with everything. The skirt is too small for her. Look how it crumples around the waist.
She looks like she shopped at a thrift store for that outfit.
She could also try combing her hair and going a little easier on the makeup.
She asks:
If a man had shown up to an interview wearing that outfit, I assure you, he wouldn't have been hired either.
She says:
And you failed. Miserably.
Patrick at April 21, 2015 9:45 AM
The outfit says "young and stupid." It doesn't scream "unprofressional" but it doesn't exactly hint at an underlying professionalism either.
I used to work in a company that required "professional dress" at all times. Many of the younger women in the company would wear club outfits or party dresses thinking those were sufficiently "dressy" for an old school company demanding professionalism. After all, Cosmo said it was okay.
Some of their younger male counterparts wore denim slacks or skinny tie club outfits.
The party-dressed young women often blamed sexism for their lack of advancement. The men usually knew there was something different about them from the other men getting ahead, but couldn't quite put their finger on it.
If a young man was competent and well-regarded, but unprofessional, a male manager sometimes took him aside and let him know that he needed to dress (and act) in a more professional manner.
Unfortunately, no one wanted to risk a charge of sexism, so no one likewise took the young women aside and explained the facts of corporate life to them.
Conan the Grammarian at April 21, 2015 9:49 AM
And for the record, this man wears a suit to interviews, white shirt, tie in double Windsor knot (and I hate ties), wing-tips and a matching belt.
Patrick at April 21, 2015 10:02 AM
One of the unfortunate truths, mentioned by several commenters, is that any and all issues of the dress, behavior or deportment of a female employee are now a third rail that none dare touch. So the quiet word of guidance or mentoring that might help a male employee who's punching above his weight or behaving inappropriately is denied to his female co-worker - all such matters are handled with asbestos gloves and long tongs, straight to the HR department to deal with - if they are dealt with at all.
This cannot be good for the prospects of female workers.
People need to be guided and to learn from their mistakes to improve and grow. But so many younger workers - like this young woman, it seems - consider themselves already perfect, and any attempt to guide or correct is merely an insult. High self-esteem like that is an asset to a high-performing employee with a track history to back it up - in a college senior, it is merely petulant, entitled, naïve and (ultimately) equal-parts depressing and amusing, by turns. It's like watching a Chihuahua puppy barking at a Doberman.
Her goal in life is to design video games? Oh, my.
llater,
llamas
llamas at April 21, 2015 10:20 AM
"More qualified candidates" probably includes people who show up on time and dress appropriately.
Since she was only being interviewed for a summer job, and they knew she was still a student, it's possible that they would have forgiven her stupid-looking outfit if she were the best candidate for the job.
Really, though, knowing how to dress for a job interview is an important life skill. If you can't afford a suit, at least wear a nice cardigan... and fix your hair!
Patrick's right about the outfit. It's ugly. The purse must have been an afterthought. I do not believe for one second that she spent "hours" putting this together. If so, she has horrible taste and friends who lie to her when she asks how she looks.
ahw at April 21, 2015 11:06 AM
Her comment on the t-shirt ("what shirt isn't on me") tells me she needs to invest in at least one good blouse; have one tailored or have an off-the-rack altered.
Or buy better-fitting shirts.
Conan the Grammarian at April 21, 2015 12:21 PM
I think her tone was a little overly bombastic, but I actually don't think there's anything strictly wrong with her outfit. More traditional workplace attire simply wouldn't fit her body type.
Button down shirts and large boobs just simply do NOT go together. They invariably gap, causing your bra to show in the front. Which is indecent. Adapting the button down from men's wear to women's wear was the dumbest idea ever. The fashion world was like, "shit, women have jobs now! What should they wear? I know, clothes that are designed for men and won't fit them!"
So yes, it is kind of sexist that woman are expected to dress like men do when the clothes themselves just don't fit their bodies- men and women are biologically different, that's just a fact of life.
If the work world had been traditionally female to start and when men started to go to work we made them all wear cotton skirts that clung to their package, because that was what was "professional" looks like, (a.k.a. dressing like a man) it would be sexist too.
Renee at April 21, 2015 12:29 PM
It has also been double-digit years since I went on a formal interview. My last one of sorts was a lunch meeting with my soon-to-be boss - taco place, and I had worked with him before. Even for that, I dressed in business casual, which is way up from what I normally wear/wore. It said, I'm serious about this, I appreciate your time, and I want the job. Without me having to say that out loud in words.
flbeachmom at April 21, 2015 12:36 PM
Oh, please. Nobody said she needs to wear a button-down. She DOES need to show up looking like she's not still drunk from the night before. There are plenty of professional-looking dresses or blouse/skirt combos available for curvier women.
But I still contend it probably wasn't really her outfit that disqualified her from the job.
ahw at April 21, 2015 12:39 PM
Abby Sciuto on NCIS is just as fictional as their forensic science.
tmitsss at April 21, 2015 1:08 PM
As a big-boobed woman who used to (like this lady) be a little chubby, I found that draped bias-cut tops are the boobsy girl's friend. Also, Nordstrom personal shoppers. When I was a lot younger and had an interview for a job in academia, a personal shopper helpd me find the perfect outfit that said "arty but not too arty, totally adult and professional." Their services are free, and you're not required to buy anything. You can take all the knowledge they drop on you, and drop it on Ross Dress for Less.
And as someone with a bit of a "corporate goth" style when not interviewing, I agree that her outfit is kind of meh. Tghe skirt's too tight, the top is just nothing, and the "cardigan" is a Dress Barn grandma schmatta.
And I am a dyed-in-the-wool hardcore feminist. If by "feminist" you mean "treating women like human beings. not better, not worse, just human." This annoying kid makes all of us non-insane feminists look bad.
P.S. I once hired an editor who showed up somewhat inappropriately dressed for an interveiw (dress just a little too short with no tights, nothing that said Hustler Club, but it kinda raised my radar). But, there weren't a lot of good applicants, we were kind of desperate, her resume was good. Worst hiring decision ever. She refused to edit books she didn't like (as a vegan she wouldn't touch text that mentioned eating meat, even though she knew the boyoung oks we published when we hired her), and so on. One day she came in to work wearing a see-through top with nothing under it. I had what was probably one of the most uncomfortable conversations of my managerial career, which ended with her stomping out in anger and never coming back because I suggested that not everyone in the office wanted to see her nipples. Good times.
Anathema at April 21, 2015 1:12 PM
Amy's outfit from the I See Rude People cover (without the gloves) would be a better choice for the interview. (the gold dress from this blog not so much)
tmitsss at April 21, 2015 1:15 PM
A lot of the words here I recognize as English.
jerry at April 21, 2015 1:21 PM
In my current role, I quit and came back. The interviews were a formality. I still wore a suit.
I dress fairly casual on daily basis.
Katrina at April 21, 2015 1:22 PM
If you want respect, give respect.
Thus endeth the lesson.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at April 21, 2015 2:15 PM
The problem with Bentivenga's outfit isn't that her skirt is too short or her shirt is too "boobsy"; it's that she made no semblance of an effort to dress in a business professional manner.
"Business professional" isn't an ambiguous concept or a catchphrase for anything worn in the workplace. It's a specific look involving a blazer/suit jacket paired with slacks or a structured dress/skirt. Yes, there is plenty of variation within this look depending on your industry, company, and personal style, but that is the basic formula you want to follow for a job interview. Looking attractive, conservative, and put together too is ideal, but that's secondary to actually following the damn dress code.
Bentihava's outfit indicates that she either doesn't understand this, or doesn't care. The message to the interviewer is this person has no workplace experience, or doesn't know how to function in a professional setting, or lacks common sense, or thinks that rules don't apply to them, or just doesn't really care about the job--take your pick. Multiply that impression x100 for being late to the interview and no sh*t you're not getting hired.
Shannon at April 21, 2015 4:04 PM
And today employees all over OnShift are giving each other high-fives with big smiles on their faces. They knew they dodged a bullet on that one. And you know who were the happiest employees? Those who would've had to work with her.
David Crawford at April 21, 2015 4:20 PM
I call shenanigans. No WAY did she spend hours on that outfit unless she's a freaking blind moron.
And yeah, the Internet is forever. Good luck finding a job now, sweetheart. Wow.
Daghain at April 21, 2015 5:51 PM
She is just trying to justify the outfit by saying it took hours. It couldn't have.
Anyone with any style sense can put an outfit together in a matter of minutes, if it even takes that long. She should have just kept it to herself and tried harder the next time, instead of announcing (and showing) to the world at large that she has no sense of style and color, and that she's incapable of matching style with occasion. And that she has an attitude. Congratulations on successfully advertising yourself as someone to avoid as an employee.
You'd think the fact the skirt is called a 'skater skirt' would be a clue.
crella at April 21, 2015 6:13 PM
She needs to get real.
They didn't hire her for any of those reasons.
It was because that bright blue oversized feedbag she probably calls her purse. It just doesn't go with that outfit!
charles at April 21, 2015 6:30 PM
I would not want to have to program with/near/around somebody dressed like that. I'm not a guy. It screams, "Look at me!" not, "Check out this cool thing I learned to do in Python!"
Shannon at April 21, 2015 7:08 PM
Ah, Oberlin College, where logic needs a trigger warning and reason is patriarchal oppression.
The Original Kit at April 21, 2015 8:25 PM
I used to work with a woman who was a bit bigger than the girl above (in all ways, including truly massive boobs). And what did she wear to work? Figure hugging dresses, no longer than knee length, with deep scoop necks. Stopping by her desk to ask a question could be truly embarrassing when you're standing over her looking straight down her cleavage. I used to always grab a seat so could look her in the face.
Another person I worked with decided that wearing a crop top to work and showing off her belly button ring in a fairly conservative office was a good idea. Given the nature of the business and office I wore a suit every day. It was my first job.
Now I'm known for being fairly sloppy in my dress. I prefer jeans and a T-shirt (although I always wear black shoes, I prefer them), on site I need long sleeves so it's jeans, a denim work shirt, and boots, but I wear a damn suit when I have to. Or even (engineering is pretty casual these days) trousers and a (ironed!) business shirt. No tie if I can help it, and not many offices in my field expect it these days anyway.
I tend to agree with others though that they simply didn't want someone around who's aim was to change the world rather than get the job done. She looks reasonable, the outfit probably wouldn't worry me. Being a whiny, self entitled idiot would though. Male or female.
Oh, also, being late. Back when was interviewing you would have four or five interviews lined up in a row. Thanks, you've just ruined my day.
Ltw at April 21, 2015 9:00 PM
I don't know about where the rest of you work but all the places I have worked with the exception of one that outfit for a computer person would have been completely OK - not win points but not lose either. The one place was extremely formal - casual Friday meant your suit did not need to be wool and you could walk around the office without your jacket unless meeting a client.
The places looking to hire coders usually perfer women to make their ratios look better. Unless they had another URM to hire instead she would have the job locked up.
The recruiter might have offered their opinion and/or be guessing at the response they received. I got a strange response once and i asked my friend who worked their about it...over beers he says what that means is that they figured that in six months when a job more to your liking comes along you will jump.
And tailors can really be your friend.
The Former Banker at April 21, 2015 9:26 PM
"but all the places I have worked with the exception of one that outfit for a computer person would have been completely OK "
But maybe not for the interview?
crella at April 22, 2015 12:57 AM
"A woman comes in wearing something mildly sexual and this is somehow indicative of her dedication and work ethic?"
Is she implying that she consciously, intentionally included "sexual" as an element of her appearance when she dressed for her job interview?
Ken R at April 22, 2015 1:17 AM
Elizabeth Bentivegna: "We try to present ourselves how we want, express ourselves how we like, try to show the world who we are - and we are STILL put into these tiny boxes where we can't fucking breathe."
Hmm. I guess the employer didn't like how she wanted to present herself, how she liked to express herself, or who she is.
My approach is different. I try to present myself how the employer wants, express myself how the employer likes, and show the employer that I understand who he or she is.
Consequently I have a job, and Elizabeth doesn't. She should dump her approach and adopt mine.
She thinks women are "put into these tiny boxes" as far as what's acceptable to wear to an interview or in a workplace? She should go into a professional office and compare the ways men and women dress, at work and for job interviews, and see which sex has fewer acceptable options and less variety. If I showed up at work dressed in male clothing as flamboyant as what many of the women wear, my boss wouldn't find that acceptable (unless I claimed to be transgender - it's a progressive company) And I wouldn't blame her.
Ken R at April 22, 2015 2:05 AM
"but all the places I have worked with the exception of one that outfit for a computer person would have been completely OK "
But maybe not for the interview?
Completely OK for an interview. conservative for day-to-day.
The Former Banker at April 22, 2015 7:36 AM
"So yes, it is kind of sexist that woman are expected to dress like men do."
In the entire fucking fashion industry, there is not one single hetrosexual male. You're not blaming this one one me.
Cousin Dave at April 22, 2015 9:02 AM
I think the outfit is ugly, even if she was going clubbing.
Perhaps ugly, but also practical. The red skirt would tend to hide the blood stains from the baby seals.
JD at April 24, 2015 9:02 AM
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