Wendy McElroy Debates -- No, Demolishes -- Jessica Valenti On So-Called "Rape Culture"
Transcript of Wendy's brilliant talk -- very much worth watching -- is here. How much better did McElroy do in the debate -- in presenting the case of truth, fairness, due process, and justice? Well...
"Valenti threatened legal action if the video of her half of the debate was not deleted by Brown University. The full video has since been posted by others."
Cathy Young's excellent piece on Emma Sulkowitz at Minding The Campus, "DID 'MATTRESS GIRL' TELL THE TRUTH? NOT VERY LIKELY":
Sulkowicz's account of her rape strains credulity to the extreme. Sulkowicz accuses Nungesser of an extremely brutal assault that should have left her visibly injured (with bruises not only on her face but on her neck and arms, unlikely to be covered by clothing in August and early September in New York) and in need of medical attention. Yet no one saw anything amiss after this attack, and both Nungesser and Sulkowicz went on to chat and banter on Facebook as if nothing happened. Sulkowicz's claim that she kept up a friendly act hoping to confront him about the rape seems extremely dubious, given the near-psychotic violence she alleges and the lack of any sign of unease or tension in their online conversations. (When I reread these archives recently, I checked the timestamps to see if there were any awkward pauses; there weren't, not even when Nungesser asks Sulkowicz to bring more girls to his party and she replies, "I'll be dere w da females soon.")Is Sulkowicz a "false accuser"? We don't know that. It's possible that something ambiguous happened between her and Nungesser that night--something that she later came to see as coercive and embellished with violent details. But I would say the odds of her account being factually true are very low.
Young lists the many credibility problems with Sulkowitz's account at the link. Actually, they should be called "strain credulity" problems.
I admit I'm biased to McElroy and generally share Amy's positions on feminism. I think Valenti flapped her gums mightily about rape culture, but did nothing to prove it has anything to do with rape.
DaveG at September 11, 2015 11:17 PM
Nothing gets people to pay more attention then trying to get people to ignore it
lujlp at September 12, 2015 2:00 AM
It is telling that Valenti based so much of her speech on Emma the mattress girl. Emma's story has been shown conclusively to be a lie. It wasn't rape. Emma admitted that. The truth is out there and undeniable for any objective and informed person. So Valenti based her speech on a lie that she had to know was a lie.
No wonder she doesn't want to talk about rape culture's existence and is offended that anyone questions it's existence. Her whole argument is based on a lie.
Ben at September 12, 2015 5:53 AM
IF a girl can carry a mattress around campus to place a "scarlet" letter on a guy w/o it creating a hostile environment can a guy carry a sign around "she's a good f#$%!" to indicate that a girl is a good time?
Bob in Texas at September 12, 2015 7:48 AM
Ben, I believe you that Emma lied; can you point to some documentation of that?
DaveG at September 12, 2015 7:50 AM
Amy provided such a link above DaveG. To believe Emma you also have to believe someone who was brutally assaulted, sodomized, almost killed, and then chatted with her assailant the next day in a very friendly manner. Further she offered to bring other women to a party with her accused rapist a few days later.
I'll admit I am too lazy to pull evidence to support 'conclusively to be a lie'. I recall Emma recanting, but I could be misremembering things. But even Amy's link points out that Emma's story has changed repeated.
If people want to believe her I can't stop them. Personally this looks like an example of a woman sexually harassing a man for years and getting away with it. Further, if this is the best example to represent 'rape culture' there obviously is no 'rape culture'. I see little difference between this and the blood libel about matzo balls Jews have suffered from.
Ben at September 12, 2015 11:26 AM
I appreciate the response, Ben. "ES lied" autofills on Google so I read a few hits.
My impressions: he said/she said, colleges screwing up investigations, sexual assault is contextual and ill-defined (see he said/she said) and women don't act traumatized after being raped.
Cathy Young JAQs Off:
http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2015/06/did-mattress-girl-tell-the-truth-not-very-likely/
DaveG at September 12, 2015 11:53 AM
Valenti was weird - inappropriate laughter, that awful vocal fry and utterly dismissive of the arguments McElroy made. Not to mention making the liar "Mattress Girl" the exemplar of her talk.
BlogDog at September 12, 2015 5:51 PM
// Valenti was weird
Yeah I thought so as well - very glib for such a serious topic.
Wendy McElroy deserves a lot of credit for confonting this subject. I know that she's taken a good deal of flak for it, from Feminists and their allies in the media. She also deserves a better debate opponent.
Mark at September 13, 2015 8:36 AM
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