Today In America As In Nazi Germany: "Knowing" Versus "Being Acquainted" With What's Going On
When I'm getting ready to go out, I put on CNN. I heard them interview two Trump voters about their perception that health care would be much improved under Trump -- despite how his plan, as stated in his campaign, was basically a Tony The Tiger thing: It'll be "GREAT!" Details? Nope-ies. "GREAT!"
Of course, it isn't just for Trump or on the right that this sort of thing goes on, but he happens to be our Blusterer In Chief -- one whom so many people keep cheering on bluster rather than on substance.
I thought of this when I read a piece by Jessica Shattuck in The New York Times about grandmother who "was a Nazi."
Shattuck's grandma didn't shove anybody in the ovens in a camp; she got into the Nazi party, she said, to be part of a farming program in the countryside where she lived; and she professed ignorance to Shattuck about the horrors the Nazis were engaged in at the time.
Shattuck:
This insistence on her own ignorance was an excuse, and I didn't and still don't accept it. It is impossible that she wouldn't have known of Hitler's virulent anti-Semitism and the Nazis' objective of ousting Jews, whom Hitler had falsely (but successfully) linked to a Bolshevik terrorist threat. But did she follow what she knew of Hitler's plan to its horrific, unimaginable end? In the late 1930s there was talk of sending Jews to Madagascar and to "settlements" in the east. But even if she believed this, why wasn't she appalled at the injustice? At the dangerous stripping of rights?In German there are two words for knowing: "wissen," which is associated with wisdom and learning, and "kennen," which is like being acquainted.
Acquaintance is, by definition, a surface understanding, susceptible to manipulation. When you are "acquainted with" something it's much easier to see only part of the whole. Especially if the other half of what you hear and see is appealing. Hitler brought back jobs and opportunity, restored national pride and told seductive, simplifying lies; in the beginning, my grandmother, like many Germans, believed, for instance, that Germany's war against Poland was begun in self-defense. (In 1939, Nazi operatives donned Polish Army uniforms and staged a takeover of a German radio station at Gleiwitz that Hitler then held up as an act of provocation by the Poles.)
"But what did you think when you started hearing the rumors about concentration camps?" I would press her. "Didn't you ever listen to the foreign news reports?"
"Allied propaganda" was my grandmother's answer. That's what Hitler said it was. And she, like many Germans, trusted him. Her trust, apparently, relieved her of the need to understand.
How do I square the loving grandmother I knew until her death, in 2011, with this person? I have often worried that my attempt to understand the choices she made -- and didn't make -- might be confused with an attempt to justify or forgive. But for me it is the only way I know to confront the past and take responsibility.
My grandmother heard what she wanted from a leader who promised simple answers to complicated questions. She chose not to hear and see the monstrous sum those answers added up to. And she lived the rest of her life with the knowledge of her indefensible complicity.
A comment at the NYT:
Eileen Gloster
Since I was a child, I've spent much time wondering what I would do if.... in all sorts of situations. Including if I were, say, a mother in Nazi Germany -- worried about "rumors" about Jews being hurt, but wanting to protect my family and having a tendency to trust my leaders. I'd like to think I'd recognize what was happening, and would heed the call for justice. But maybe I'd just play it safe.So many people just looked away -- do I really think I'd be any different? It's so much easier to watch movies about Nazi Germany, or American slavery, or Japanese Internment Camps, and yell at the characters who ignore the suffering, or worse contribute to it. But we don't have a musical score in real life. Our lives aren't edited so that we understand the significance of our actions in the moment, or so that we know, with complete certainty, what is true.
Another NYT comment:
Elizabeth Quinson Suffern
Thank you for your thoughtful essay. I loved my grandmother, too. She was French and had three sons to protect, feed, and educated alone, while her husband served six years in a German POW camp, from 1939-1945.She lived to be 100 years old and yet on her deathbed her great regret was not helping a young German soldier right at the end of the war. He had come to the gate and asked for some clothing to change into so he would not have to wear his uniform as he tried to get home. She refused him, and that refusal haunted her. She was certain that he had been shot and that she bore the responsibility.
I loved my grandmother for many reasons, but I admire her most for her sympathy and ability to see across divisions, uniforms, armies, and nationalities to individuals and their humanity.
Im trying to figure out what the point of this post is, and I just don't see one.
One universal truth, knowing about something or suspecting it, is not a call to action or guerrila warfare.
If you think all the Germans just sat on their hands and let Hitler have his way, you need to read more history. There were numerous assassination attempts, all failures.
The people who survive to pass on their genes are the ones who see the writing on the wall and get the hell out, or when that option is out, get a little lucky and keep their heads down. They aren't the ones charging Nazi tanks with cavalry (like the father of one of my Jewish friends).
Heroes who stand up to tyranny don't survive to have kids, or insure the survival of the ones they already have.
Trying to make any kind of connection between Trump's blustering about health care, and Nazi Germany is just silly.
Obama is the one who lied out his ass for years, and destroyed your health insurance, and now all the sudden, Trump's the Nazi for not fixing it...immediately...himself.
Isab at March 27, 2017 12:05 AM
Okay, I get it: since he's still in office, he's not "the adult candidate", he's a Nazi.
You're WAY behind. The SJWs have said he was Hitler since he won the nomination.
Perhaps you haven't watched CNN long enough. They're accurate. Right?
Radwaste at March 27, 2017 12:43 AM
My grandmother still loves 'Her Fuhrer' and blames all the bad things on 'those other stinkers' like Himmler and Bormann and such. Of course leaving Germany in 1938 at 15 Years old means she was well and truly brainwashed before she left.
I myself wrote this article in a similar vein;
http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2002/libe167-20020401-04.html
Warhawke223 at March 27, 2017 12:47 AM
"They had the information, but they didn’t know! Why? Because if they did they would have had to make a choice. They would have had to stand up, to cease their support for the butchers running their country, and they would have had to work to bring down the animals responsible for the barbarity. Otherwise they would have to stand with their government, and bear moral responsibility for what that government did"
Very smug Warhawke. Whatever does this mean? What does *standing up*' and "ceasing support" look like? And what does "bearing moral responsibility" look like? Do you have to wear a hair shirt or just feel guilty enough to go on psychiatric meds?
"*Work to bring down the butchers running their country? *"
Give me an example of something you would have done if you had been there, and then prove your sincerity by traveling to North Korea and testing your strategy there in a real live totalitarian regime.
Nitwits raised in a benign constitutional republic, just dont seem to understand in a fundamental way, that *standing up* to a totalitarian dictator means signing your own death warrant.
Somehow you snowflakes think protesting means something like throwing paint onto some rich bitches fur coat, and getting carted off the jail for a couple of hours until your other moronic friends bail you out.
Protesting the government in imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, modern North Korea, or any number of partially civilized places is not something someone sane, with an IQ above room temperature is going to do.
Death is for real, and it is final, and it often involved getting your entire immediate family executed as well.
You just aren't that fucking brave, and I hope to God, you aren't that fucking stupid, so stop posturing about the Germans.
Isab at March 27, 2017 2:05 AM
What Party supported and still supports a known rapist.
What Party's upper core sabotaged one of its own candidate's efforts to get selected.
What Party stole debate questions.
What Party condones the violence of its supporters.
And you compare Trump to Nazis?
Bob in Texas at March 27, 2017 4:55 AM
And you compare Trump to Nazis?
Um, no. I'm saying people are looking with blind eyes at a guy whom they contend is a conservative, but is not. Whom they contend has a better health care plan but has not offered details of it -- beyond his calling for single payer in his 2000 book (which he maybe never looked at) and saying his plan will be "great!" Tony the Tiger says that, too, about the Frosted Flakes that will send your kids' blood sugar to Mars and back.
Amy Alkon at March 27, 2017 5:21 AM
As near as I can see, the article Amy quotes from (and apparently agrees with) demands that you only support politicians if you know, understand and agree with all of their positions. Right, sure, listen: I doubt any two people agree on everything.
More to the point: there are lots of big issues that individuals feel powerless to change. We know that even politicians (including presidents and even dictators) rarely manage to get their policies through without making lots of compromises along the way. So we pay attention to the stuff that affects us directly, and ignore most of the rest.
tl;dr: The author is a naive idealist in seriuos need of a reality check.
a_random_guy at March 27, 2017 5:47 AM
Sorry Amy, we already knew you don't like Trump. Some Hitler references don't really bring much to the conversation.
Also, who the hell is telling you Trump is a conservative? Is it CNN? And you believe them?
Ben at March 27, 2017 6:10 AM
I found this blog post a sympathetic, interesting and thought provoking piece on how psychology affects political behavior and adapts to even the most horrific political reality. I find the breadth and severity of the reactions it triggered fascinating, and if I was smarter perhaps they'd even be instructive.
David Doudna at March 27, 2017 6:49 AM
No free pass Amy.
Using Hitler as a comparison is so off the charts (what Idi Amin didn't float your boat?) that obviously the topic is Trump and not Health Plan.
Where/who was your alternative for someone doing away with the Health Plan? It was/is the same Party that created it?
Seriously, Hitler?
Bob in Texas at March 27, 2017 7:31 AM
Let's not slam the Germans too much without understanding them. The German people had been through the chaotic Weimar years which, while not physically traumatic, did leave some psychic scarring: ineffectual government, hyperinflation, chaos, violence, crime, avant garde art, and nihilism. In 1922, popular politician, Walter Rathenau, was assassinated in the streets of Berlin.
When you got your paycheck in the Weimar years, you spent it immediately, on anything, because the cash would be worthless within the next few days but the item you bought could be sold. In 1923, it took a wheelbarrow of cash to buy a loaf of bread. People bought pianos just to have their money in something other than cash. The exchange rate in 1923 was $1 = 1 trillion Marks. To give perspective, in 1914, the Mark traded at a rate of 4-5 US dollars.
There's a line in Cabaret where the old woman says laments, "I miss the Kaiser. At least under the Kaiser we had order." That line probably illustrates how Hitler came to power better than any other. The Germans were exhausted by the chaos of the Weimar years.
The Weimar years were a time of rapid change. Germany began transitioning from an agricultural state to an industrial one. The arts flourished. The Bauhaus revolutionized architecture and design. German Expressionism flourished, giving Germans nightmarish visions with Nosferatu, Dr. Mabuse the Gambler, and The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari. But for the people caught up in this rapid change, it was exhausting.
Hitler represented stability, unpleasant stability, but stability nonetheless. Hitler ran for president and lost. His party never gained more than 37% of the seats in the legislature, which he was able to parlay into the Chancellorship in 1933. When President Hindenberg died in 1934, he had himself declared president, this securing the top offices in Germany for himself.
By the time the majority of Germans realized what Hitler truly was, the Nazis were too entrenched to be rooted out by anything but violence. And, as Isab points out, when your dictator gets you into a war the chance of death is impersonal, but when you take up arms and resist the dictator the chance of death is personal. So, you deny that he's really all that bad and hope you're right.
Trump supporters are not deluding themselves that he's conservative. They voted for Trump, a personality and not for conservatism, a political philosophy. Or, more correctly, they voted against creeping liberalism and its political correctness and government regulation of their daily lives. There is still a stubborn streak in the American psyche that says, "Leave me alone!"
And while Democrats are right to examine Trump and his supporters; and their motives and awareness, they need to examine their own leadership, motives, and philosophy. Top-down leadership has created a party of top-down government, of laws and regulations dictated from Washington, a drive to increase the political power of the federal government and not of the populace.
Cries of "rape culture" have turned college campuses hostile to half the population, in a way those campuses were never hostile to the other half. BLM and open hostility to police and law have created an entitlement-driven criminal class. Unrestricted illegal immigration have strained social systems, eroded respect for the law, and created enclaves of non-assimilated residents in our cities - where the language and culture are sometimes hostile to Western values of individual rights.
Conan the Grammarian at March 27, 2017 7:33 AM
Well, since Trumpcare couldn't muster up enough votes in their own party to pass it, the specific topic is kind of N/A now. Although Amy's point about Trump not really being a conservative should be noted. Trumpcare wasn't what Trump's voters ordered, and he seems mystified as to why it failed to be wildly popular. You need to spend a bit more time in retail, Mr. Trump.
As far as Nazis: If there's one thing I hate, it's people who judge the past with perfect 20/20 hindsight. No, all of the Germans did not have intimate knowledge of the concentration camps. I get a laugh out of the self-styled "Resistance" that the American Left has built. They have no clue what the word means. In WWII, after the Battle of Armhem (aka A Bridge Too Far), the Dutch Resistance hid over 200 trapped Allied soldiers around the countryside, and eventually it was able to arrange for most of them to escape across the Rhine back to Allied lines, right under the noses of the Nazis. Several of those Resistance members were caught and put to death. And by "caught", it doesn't necessarily mean that they were involved in the evasion. They were just Dutch people, who might or might not have had some Resistance involvement, that the Nazis decided to kill to make a point.
Denouncing the Nazis is one of the easiest virtue-signalling moves one can make today. There is absolutely no physical or social danger in it; no one will disagree with you and no one will try to kill you for saying it. If you want to do a social experiment, go to a university and walk around campus denouncing Stalin. Or, for even more fun, go to Moscow and walk around Red Square denouncing Putin.
Cousin Dave at March 27, 2017 8:40 AM
Most of what you've written I've liked , and even agreed with mostly. That the Trump presidency is a disruption from normal is a real understatement only comparable to someone in the Ukrainian town of Balaklia asking"Did you hear something?". I will point out to you that during Obama's term as POTUS,there were MORE people with MORE recent experience in the matter,getting nervous about the Cult of Personality around the President,because they were there in the USSR and associated states and what they saw in the Left was making them sweat because they'd already lived through it. The only semi-organized thugs I've seen in this are protesters on the Democratic side of the spectrum.
allan kenny at March 27, 2017 10:52 AM
Trump is not, and never was a conservative.
Got it. Didn't need you to tell me that.
Neither was -
Bush I.
Bush II.
McCain.
Romney.
or the entire Republican establishment. Or, for that matter, many so called Republican/Libertarian voters who voted for Hillary Clinton.
But they were all called Nazis.
Unless someone is going to political rallies and attacking the people there (hmmmmm...), calling for a suspension of the Constitution and imposition of martial law in reponse to the lawful election of a President (again, hmmmmm)burning and rioting ala kristallnacht (all these hmmmmm's), calling for the extinction of a race of people (do I even need to say hmmmmm at this point),tattoing peoples arms with numbers, making people wear stars on their clothing, machine gunning people into mass graves, confining people to concentration camps and exterminating entire generations, and cremating people in ovens, anyone using the Nazis in any context to make what passes for a political "point" should have their voting rights revoked.
I understood your hyperbole for awhile, Amy. I can disagree with someone and still have great respect, even personal affection, for them. But at this point, it should damn well be beneath you, and I'm really disappointed it isn't.
I serve an organization with Battle streamers on it' flag earned fighting the Nazis. Enough is damn well enough.
The WolfMan at March 27, 2017 12:26 PM
""But what did you think when you started hearing the rumors about concentration camps?" I would press her. "Didn't you ever listen to the foreign news reports?"
"Allied propaganda" was my grandmother's answer."
History is rarely simple. What and how much people knew is tough to judge especially under a regime known for propaganda and scapegoating/purges. At a time when news came from last years movie, yesterdays newspaper, a handful of radio stations, and gossip.
Propaganda wars and virtue signalling, are anything but new. We may think our "fake news" world is bad with it, but we are amateurs. Just look at the control that the National Socialists had in Hollywood before the US entered the war. And after, how both sides waged a propaganda war.
Being caught listening to foreign news reports or asking too many odd questions, could have gotten you accused of being a traitor/spy, in both Allied and Axis countries.
Also how ridiculous the truth would have sounded to ones who didn't grow up knowing it had once been done. Which sounds like truth or fake news: Exterminating a race and making lamp shades out of their skin, or forced labor camp/slave labor, how about just mass deportations to somewhere else.
As to modern fake news, O was born in his fathers home country instead of his mothers home country and forged one government document to do it. ergo the birther movement seems rather tame and believable in comparison.
As to spreading hatred of one scapegoat group, who doesn't do that?
Mexico isn't sending us their best, some are rapists, murderers;
Muslim terrorists;
White cops are hunting unarmed blacks;
Its all the fault of the 1% who are the cause of all the worlds problems;
Those who speak against us are (Nazis, fascists, trolls, misogynists, unpatriotic etc.);
How about climate deniers, blame them for exterminating the entire planet, eventually.
Joe J at March 27, 2017 1:44 PM
Denouncing the Nazis is one of the easiest virtue-signalling moves one can make today....
Propaganda wars and virtue signalling, are anything but new....
Can someone explain this to me? The term "virtue signaling" seems like "family values" ... it means whatever someone wants it to mean at that moment?
The whole pronoun thing -- virtue signaling?
Public prayer -- virtue signaling?
T-shirt sloganeering -- virtue signaling?
The Pledge of Allegiance -- virtue signaling?
Kevin at March 27, 2017 2:40 PM
It means exactly what the words say Kevin. You are publicly demonstrating (signaling) your virtue. No different from people praying very loudly in public to display their virtue. Though a key part is that all you are doing is signaling virtue and not actually doing anything more.
Ben at March 27, 2017 3:02 PM
"Can someone explain this to me? The term "virtue signaling" seems like "family values" ... it means whatever someone wants it to mean at that moment?"
Virtue signaling is when you make public pronouncments on morals or policy, the primary purpose of which is to demonstate that you are a moral, right thinking person.
Virtue signalling is transparently obvious because the person making the pronouncement either has no skin in the game, (the policy or issue doesnt affect them) or has a self serving base reason for supporting or opposing the policy in question rather than the pure one that they are publicly proclaiming.
When the president of Starbucks or Apple proclaims that they won't support racial or sex discrimination or slavery in any form, and boycotts Indiana for not supporting gay marriage sufficiently while at the same time out of the public eye they build their products with slave labor in brutal dictatorships or open numerous stores in countries that have the death penality for homosexuality, this is virtue signaling. (It is also crass hypocrisy but virtue signalling usually is)
Isab at March 27, 2017 3:10 PM
It means exactly what the words say Kevin. You are publicly demonstrating (signaling) your virtue. No different from people praying very loudly in public to display their virtue. Though a key part is that all you are doing is signaling virtue and not actually doing anything more.
OK. So "taking a public stand (or behaving in a public manner) to demonstrate one's self-perceived virtuousness" would be a workable definition.
Kevin at March 27, 2017 3:39 PM
A little dense Kevin?
You got the half answer that Dems/Libs are going for now but did not include the need to not be hypocritical as in the Apple/Starbucks example above.
The guys smacking people in the head and burning cars SAY they are taking a public stand but are really not. The nuns that protest at nuclear plants and purposely get arrested so they can declare their POV are (IMO).
Half answers Kevin simply show your own POV/bias not your intelligence or knowledge of a subject.
Bob in Texas at March 27, 2017 4:38 PM
Dense I may be; rude I am not.
I was unclear on the concept and apparently I still am. Isab said it's often crass hypocrisy as well as making a show of virtuousness. So that's the case, hand in glove?
As for "Dems/Libs," I'd say that demonstrates more of a POV/bias on your part than mine -- but as I mentioned, my manners are faultless, even if my understanding isn't.
Kevin at March 27, 2017 5:48 PM
I was unclear on the concept and apparently I still am. Isab said it's often crass hypocrisy as well as making a show of virtuousness. So that's the case, hand in glove?
The easiest way to detect virtue signalling is to watch what people actually do, as opposed to what they say.
Talk is cheap, and way too many gullible people put entirely too much stock in it.
There isnt a sure way to detect it, because virtue signaling can be so situational. But if you are accused of it, a good defense is to show you have walked the walk, and not just talked the talk.
However, walking the walk often involves entrapment in a whole different set of unforseen consequences.
It is really unpleasant to be forced to live up to your ideals.
If you are a Hollywood celebrity for example, who has jumped on the bandwagon of climate change, and donated money to the anti fracking campaigns, and at the same time own four mansions, and jet all over the world flying your own planes, every pronouncement you make on the subject is virtue signaling for the obvious reasons.
Isab at March 27, 2017 6:24 PM
> my manners are faultless, even
> if my understanding isn't.
Kid's got a fastball.
Stick 'round youngster, I'll learn ya a few thangs.
Crid at March 27, 2017 6:36 PM
"Dense I may be; rude I am not."
It's rude to engage in a discussion and ignore other's comments while restating your position hoping they will agree with your words.
"As for "Dems/Libs," I'd say that demonstrates more of a POV/bias on your part than mine ..."
Ignore the examples I have given of the Dems/Libs being hypocritical and that's okay not everyone reads every comment. But ignore all examples shows your bias not mine.
If you truly want to understand someone's POV engage them in a discussion starting with their phrasing/wording. Rephrasing your point does not count as a discussion. That's being rude. Simply because you don't get called on it does not change it.
To me you are either being transparent in trying shift the discussion away from points you disagree with or do not wish to acknowledge, or you are not willing to discuss other's examples of their POV.
Of course this only my opinion of "being rude" and "not discussing" things. Live long and prosper (unless a Jewish phrase bothers you then take the words as a kindness).
Bob in Texas at March 28, 2017 7:06 AM
Essentially, yes. It's a way to charge a political opponent with making an empty gesture or backing something they don't really believe in, in order to score virtue points or show themselves as more enlightened or virtuous than those who do not agree with them on the issue.
Charges of virtue signaling are usually leveled when someone advocates a position that inconveniences a majority of society and does not affect them personally; that the public support is intended to show unity with or tolerance of some sub-set of society. While those around them hold opposite positions, they parade their support for all to see, as a signal of their virtue.
It's almost a lite version of hypocrisy. Except in virtue signaling, the person might really believe in the positions they've advocated. However, they've usually done little in their lives to support it. They want to bask in the unearned glory of being enlightened or virtuous.
Conan the Grammarian at March 28, 2017 12:57 PM
"Let's not slam the Germans too much without understanding them."
Screw that. The internet operates on knee-jerk reactions to poorly-written headlines, sophomoric memes, debunked conspiracy theories, and cultural stereotyping.
My god, sir, think of what you're asking!
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at March 28, 2017 10:26 PM
You're right. I'm asking people to draw an informed conclusion. What was I thinking?
Sheri Berman, a professor of political science at Barnard College writes in aeon.co about the average German's experience with the Nazis.
[Emphasis mine]
Daniel J. Flynn points out in The American Spectator that...
Conan the Grammarian at March 31, 2017 1:41 PM
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