Larsen, a Roseburg resident, told The Oregonian/OregonLive by phone Friday that he wasn’t using his cellphone while driving his Bayliner and referred to such allegations as “fake news.”
This has to stop.
Crid
at January 17, 2018 10:10 PM
Apple's now free to bring home its overseas cash — here's what it might do with it
Business Insider 8h ago
The Commies won the Cold War: A $38 Billion tax bill leaves you "free."
You know a Republican is in the White House when Apple announces a commitment to the economy of $350B and 20,000 new jobs, North and South Korea are talking, the Dow closes above 26,000 for the first time... and the news media is focused like a laser on the President’s weight.
Reason article on Stephen Galloway, the University of British Columbia prof who was railroaded out of his job on an unproven sexual harassment complaint. Pull quote from Margaret Atwood, of all people: "I believe that in order to have civil and human rights for women, there have to be civil and human rights[...], just as for women to have the vote, there has to be a vote. "
Cousin Dave
at January 18, 2018 8:43 AM
Lileks has a rant, and does some fisking.
So. It's a BuzzFeed piece called "Justin Timberlake, John Mayer, And The Western Rehab For White Masculinity." Apparently Timberlake did a video teaser for his new album, and it was set on his ranch.This is as problematic as you can imagine.
...
Okay. Make an album that co-opts another culture, you’re appropriating. Throw up your hands and say screw it and make an album based on something everyone else says is your culture, and you’re retreating to a safe space of whiteness.
You know who never apologized for cultural appropriation? Elvis Costello. Did a country album back in his New Wave days. He had no right to that. All copies should be melted down.
Protests; Will the manufactures of self driving cars get hit with wrongful death suits when their cars stop for a mob long enough for them to pull the passenger from it?
The next big challenge for the makers of self-driving cars: idiots. ~ Conan the Grammarian at January 18, 2018 10:23 AM
3,500 lbs of metal moving at 35 mph won't stop on a dime, even with AI driving.
Conan the Grammarian
at January 18, 2018 11:09 AM
Barbara Kingsolver makes an argument for a clearer "no":
"Raped is not groped is not catcalled on the street: all these are vile and have to stop, but the damages are different. Women who wish to be more than bodies can use our brains to discern context and the need for cultural education. In lieu of beguiling we can be rational, which means giving the accused a fair hearing and a sentence that fits the crime. (Let it also be said, losing executive power is not the death penalty, even if some people are carrying on as if it were.) Polarisation is as obstructive in gender politics as in any other forum. Sympathetic men are valuable allies.
Let’s be clear: no woman asks to live in a rape culture: we all want it over, yesterday. Mixed signals about female autonomy won’t help bring it down, and neither will asking nicely. Nothing changes until truly powerful offenders start to fall. Feminine instincts for sweetness and apology have no skin in this game. It’s really not possible to overreact to uncountable, consecutive days of being humiliated by men who say our experience isn’t real, or that we like it actually, or are cute when we’re mad. Anger has to go somewhere – if not out then inward, in a psychic thermodynamics that can turn a nation of women into pressure cookers. Watching the election of a predator-in-chief seems to have popped the lid off the can. We’ve found a voice, and now is a good time to use it, in a tone that will not be mistaken for flirtation.
Don’t say that to me. Don’t do that to me. I hate it."
> 1. What about the women who like getting cat
> calls? (cause if it never worked ever 100% of the
> time guys would stop doing it)
"It isn’t the corporate lawyer doing the wolf whistles. It is usually the under-educated laborer who doesn’t have an indoor job, or any job. The female victims in this scenario are, more often than not, among the more attractive humans on earth. Those are the ones that are (usually) attracting the most attention. And in our world, attractiveness is power.
In modern society, power comes from three sources: education, money, and attractiveness. People who have all three are at the top of the power pyramid. People who have any two of the three are next, and the people who have only one are the next level down. The unfortunate people who have no money, attractiveness, or education are at the bottom. So when a construction worker hassles an attractive woman on the street, it is often a case of a less powerful person bothering a more powerful person. You lose that nuance when you represent the situation as a men-versus-women problem. The reality is that the bad behavior is (mostly) limited to a small group of relatively powerless men. I would guess that less than 1% of men would be in that obnoxious category."
1. What about the women who like getting cat calls? (cause if it never worked ever 100% of the time guys would stop doing it)
2. What about the women who like getting groped? As I recall most of my exes liked foreplay
3. What about the fact that 45% of sexual assaults (and therefore probably harassment as well) are committed BY WOMEN
lujlp at January 18, 2018 12:44 PM
1. What about them?
2. Context and consent, lujlp
3. Cite to a credible source?
I've just skimmed sources from the (US govt) CDC and National Institute of Justice, and also RAINN, and I'm not finding data on perpetrators by sex (m/f).
Michelle
at January 18, 2018 1:53 PM
1. The author is suggesting some women need to be reeducated away from something they enjoy so other women dont have to put up with an annoyance - seems kinda sexist to tell women they arent allowed to enjoy their own sexuality in the manner they choose
2. The author provided no context and made no distinction about consent but merely said all groping must end
3. RAINN is about as objective and accurate as asking death row inmates for a show of hands as to their innocence, or the press releases from the Vatican on how their priests never ever molested any children.
The source was a CDC commissioned study.
Here is a link to an article discussing said study with a link to said study
WATCHING?! You watched passively instead of traveling to the states Hillary blithely ignored to get out the vote?
You and people like you are the reason why Hillary won 400 counties and Trump won 3600 counties.
Shame on you, Michelle. This is your fault. Shame, shame, shame.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers
at January 18, 2018 4:25 PM
1. The author is suggesting some women need to be reeducated away from something they enjoy [...]
2. The author provided no context and made no distinction about consent but merely said all groping must end
3. RAINN is about as objective and accurate as asking death row inmates for a show of hands as to their innocence, or the press releases from the Vatican on how their priests never ever molested any children.
The source was a CDC commissioned study.
Here is a link to an article discussing said study with a link to said study
2) Kingsolver uses groping in the context of unwanted touch - in an essay she begins and ends with the example of teaching her daughters how to say "no" to what they do not want.
3) First, interesting article, thank you for the link.
I don't see how these numbers are pertinent to an essay about altering the cultural dynamic by teaching girls to clearly and unequivocally say "no."
Regardless, I read the article and looked at one of the links.
The writer of the article makes this claim without citing her specific source (document page), so I'm not sure how she did her math to arrive at this conclusion:
"Nearly 7 percent of men, however, reported that at some point in their lives, they were “made to penetrate” another person—usually in reference to vaginal intercourse, receiving oral sex, or performing oral sex on a woman. This was not classified as rape, but as “other sexual violence.”
And now the real surprise: when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011)."
~~~
I'm fine to agree with her assertion that being forced to penetrate someone counts as rape. She doesn't show her work though, and I think she might have done her math wrong, conceptually (these numbers are from the executive summary, "Key Findings Sexual Violence by Any Perpetrator" pg. 1 and 2):
nearly 1 in 5 women (raped) = 18.3 % of women surveyed.
compared to
1 in 71 men (raped) + 1 in 21 men (forced to penetrate)
1.4 % (of 71 people) + 4.8 % (of 21 people) = 7% (roughly)
The author of the Times article concludes "In other words, if being made to penetrate someone was counted as rape—and why shouldn’t it be?—then the headlines could have focused on a truly sensational CDC finding: that women rape men as often as men rape women."
I don't see how she reaches that conclusion.
ON PAGE 3 of the exec. summary (or 13 of 134 in the pdf count - most of which I did not read) - middle column, under the heading "Number and Sex of Perpetrators" (in part):
• Across all types of violence,
the majority of female victims
reported that their perpetrators
were male.
• Male rape victims and male
victims of non-contact
unwanted sexual experiences
reported predominantly male
perpetrators. ... Perpetrators of other
forms of violence against males
were mostly female.
~~~
So, giving the author of the Times piece the benefit of the doubt, starting with that 7%, first subtract the 1.4% that is the percentage of men raped according to the CDC definition, because the CDC report says that's largely done by men to men.
If we presume that the "forced to penetrate" percentage of 4.8 % is done entirely by women against men (because the CDC says, above, "Perpetrators of other forms of violence against males were mostly female.") then you're still comparing 4.8 percent (1 in 21) against 18.3 percent (1 in 5).
I don't know how the author of the Times piece concludes from this that "women rape men as often as men rape women."
Correction - I wrote, "because the CDC report says that's largely done by men to men," but I should have written "because the CDC report says that's largely done to men by men."
Michelle
at January 18, 2018 7:00 PM
Team Michelle™
Crid
at January 20, 2018 8:55 AM
Um, Snoopy, am I supposed to believe that construction workers don't make notably better money than the average waiter?
It's not as though the average woman is rich, after all. Whether she's pretty or not.
(I couldn't believe Rush Limbaugh's notorious comment from way back, regarding feminism, power and unattractive women - did he honestly think, before 1970 or so, that pretty women could always own their own property, go to college, get high paying jobs, get equal pay for equal work, rent their own apartments, or get their own credit cards? Not to mention, you know, the right to VOTE before 1920?)
lenona
at January 20, 2018 10:15 AM
"am I supposed to believe that construction workers don't make notably better money than the average waiter?"
I'd say the comparative incomes fit the job requirements and dangers.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers
at January 20, 2018 12:34 PM
Crid at January 17, 2018 10:10 PM
The Commies won the Cold War: A $38 Billion tax bill leaves you "free."
Crid at January 17, 2018 10:39 PM
Don't miss this.
Crid at January 17, 2018 10:52 PM
We knew that this would happen; and we are mostly cool with it.
Crid at January 18, 2018 2:55 AM
A "yikes" photography from the natural world.
Crid at January 18, 2018 2:58 AM
Heroes:
https://twitter.com/nbcbayarea/status/953482868545720320
Snoopy at January 18, 2018 4:13 AM
Trump takes hard line on immigration, rejects 'horrible' bipartisan plan:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-exclusive/exclusive-trump-takes-hard-line-on-immigration-rejects-horrible-bipartisan-plan-idUSKBN1F62QL
Snoopy at January 18, 2018 4:16 AM
Trump impeachment smoking gun:
http://www.newsweek.com/trump-health-exam-president-hair-loss-drug-research-erectile-dysfunction-783580
Snoopy at January 18, 2018 4:17 AM
You know a Republican is in the White House when Apple announces a commitment to the economy of $350B and 20,000 new jobs, North and South Korea are talking, the Dow closes above 26,000 for the first time... and the news media is focused like a laser on the President’s weight.
https://twitter.com/hale_razor/status/953813412777086976
Snoopy at January 18, 2018 4:19 AM
#fakenews awards:
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/01/fake-news-awards-announced-president-trump-announces-much-anticipated-fakenews-awards/
Snoopy at January 18, 2018 4:22 AM
How to trigger a Latinx
Of course, they never will notice this since they don't speak an ounce of Spanish at all.
https://twitter.com/RAEinforma/status/951413177279041536
Sixclaws at January 18, 2018 4:58 AM
Mirror, mirror on the wall..
https://twitter.com/CPHigson/status/952208199012282370
Sixclaws at January 18, 2018 8:02 AM
And they said Gen Z was going to be better than the Millennials..
https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/951811001401446400
Sixclaws at January 18, 2018 8:18 AM
Reason article on Stephen Galloway, the University of British Columbia prof who was railroaded out of his job on an unproven sexual harassment complaint. Pull quote from Margaret Atwood, of all people: "I believe that in order to have civil and human rights for women, there have to be civil and human rights[...], just as for women to have the vote, there has to be a vote. "
Cousin Dave at January 18, 2018 8:43 AM
Lileks has a rant, and does some fisking.
http://www.lileks.com/bleats/archive/18/0118/011718.html
I R A Darth Aggie at January 18, 2018 10:09 AM
The next big challenge for the makers of self-driving cars: idiots.
Conan the Grammarian at January 18, 2018 10:23 AM
"You know who never apologized for cultural appropriation? Elvis Costello. Did a country album back in his New Wave days."
Playing this song for country fans is much fun.
Radwaste at January 18, 2018 10:23 AM
Pretty good summary:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/twitterstorm-2018
Snoopy at January 18, 2018 10:26 AM
Tide pods pizza bites anyone?
https://twitter.com/juliareinstein/status/954031988352192512
Sixclaws at January 18, 2018 10:29 AM
@Conan,
Children too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuJT9EtdETY
Sixclaws at January 18, 2018 10:33 AM
When hard and soft sciences collide
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/come-together-2
Sixclaws at January 18, 2018 10:45 AM
Re self driving cars stopping for pedestrians.
Protests; Will the manufactures of self driving cars get hit with wrongful death suits when their cars stop for a mob long enough for them to pull the passenger from it?
lujlp at January 18, 2018 11:04 AM
The next big challenge for the makers of self-driving cars: idiots.
The hard part about playing chicken is knowing when to flinch.
https://youtu.be/5kaBIMuW74Q?t=1m20s
I R A Darth Aggie at January 18, 2018 11:05 AM
3,500 lbs of metal moving at 35 mph won't stop on a dime, even with AI driving.
Conan the Grammarian at January 18, 2018 11:09 AM
Barbara Kingsolver makes an argument for a clearer "no":
"Raped is not groped is not catcalled on the street: all these are vile and have to stop, but the damages are different. Women who wish to be more than bodies can use our brains to discern context and the need for cultural education. In lieu of beguiling we can be rational, which means giving the accused a fair hearing and a sentence that fits the crime. (Let it also be said, losing executive power is not the death penalty, even if some people are carrying on as if it were.) Polarisation is as obstructive in gender politics as in any other forum. Sympathetic men are valuable allies.
Let’s be clear: no woman asks to live in a rape culture: we all want it over, yesterday. Mixed signals about female autonomy won’t help bring it down, and neither will asking nicely. Nothing changes until truly powerful offenders start to fall. Feminine instincts for sweetness and apology have no skin in this game. It’s really not possible to overreact to uncountable, consecutive days of being humiliated by men who say our experience isn’t real, or that we like it actually, or are cute when we’re mad. Anger has to go somewhere – if not out then inward, in a psychic thermodynamics that can turn a nation of women into pressure cookers. Watching the election of a predator-in-chief seems to have popped the lid off the can. We’ve found a voice, and now is a good time to use it, in a tone that will not be mistaken for flirtation.
Don’t say that to me. Don’t do that to me. I hate it."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/16/metoo-women-daughters-harassment-powerful-men
Michelle at January 18, 2018 11:37 AM
"Watching the election of a predator-in-chief seems to have popped the lid off the can."
So, you didn't vote for Bill Clinton?
Radwaste at January 18, 2018 12:10 PM
Three points to Michelle's article
1. What about the women who like getting cat calls? (cause if it never worked ever 100% of the time guys would stop doing it)
2. What about the women who like getting groped? As I recall most of my exes liked foreplay
3. What about the fact that 45% of sexual assaults (and therefore probably harassment as well) are committed BY WOMEN
lujlp at January 18, 2018 12:44 PM
> 1. What about the women who like getting cat
> calls? (cause if it never worked ever 100% of the
> time guys would stop doing it)
"It isn’t the corporate lawyer doing the wolf whistles. It is usually the under-educated laborer who doesn’t have an indoor job, or any job. The female victims in this scenario are, more often than not, among the more attractive humans on earth. Those are the ones that are (usually) attracting the most attention. And in our world, attractiveness is power.
In modern society, power comes from three sources: education, money, and attractiveness. People who have all three are at the top of the power pyramid. People who have any two of the three are next, and the people who have only one are the next level down. The unfortunate people who have no money, attractiveness, or education are at the bottom. So when a construction worker hassles an attractive woman on the street, it is often a case of a less powerful person bothering a more powerful person. You lose that nuance when you represent the situation as a men-versus-women problem. The reality is that the bad behavior is (mostly) limited to a small group of relatively powerless men. I would guess that less than 1% of men would be in that obnoxious category."
From: http://blog.dilbert.com/2014/09/01/is-feminism-sexist/
Snoopy at January 18, 2018 1:06 PM
"Tsunami" of #FakeNews shut down:
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/01/18/liberal-huffpost-scraps-contributor-network-amid-tsunami-false-information.amp.html
Snoopy at January 18, 2018 1:13 PM
Three points to Michelle's article
1. What about the women who like getting cat calls? (cause if it never worked ever 100% of the time guys would stop doing it)
2. What about the women who like getting groped? As I recall most of my exes liked foreplay
3. What about the fact that 45% of sexual assaults (and therefore probably harassment as well) are committed BY WOMEN
lujlp at January 18, 2018 12:44 PM
1. What about them?
2. Context and consent, lujlp
3. Cite to a credible source?
I've just skimmed sources from the (US govt) CDC and National Institute of Justice, and also RAINN, and I'm not finding data on perpetrators by sex (m/f).
Michelle at January 18, 2018 1:53 PM
1. The author is suggesting some women need to be reeducated away from something they enjoy so other women dont have to put up with an annoyance - seems kinda sexist to tell women they arent allowed to enjoy their own sexuality in the manner they choose
2. The author provided no context and made no distinction about consent but merely said all groping must end
3. RAINN is about as objective and accurate as asking death row inmates for a show of hands as to their innocence, or the press releases from the Vatican on how their priests never ever molested any children.
The source was a CDC commissioned study.
Here is a link to an article discussing said study with a link to said study
http://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/
lujlp at January 18, 2018 2:18 PM
"Watching the election of a predator-in-chief"
WATCHING?! You watched passively instead of traveling to the states Hillary blithely ignored to get out the vote?
You and people like you are the reason why Hillary won 400 counties and Trump won 3600 counties.
Shame on you, Michelle. This is your fault. Shame, shame, shame.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at January 18, 2018 4:25 PM
1. The author is suggesting some women need to be reeducated away from something they enjoy [...]
2. The author provided no context and made no distinction about consent but merely said all groping must end
3. RAINN is about as objective and accurate as asking death row inmates for a show of hands as to their innocence, or the press releases from the Vatican on how their priests never ever molested any children.
The source was a CDC commissioned study.
Here is a link to an article discussing said study with a link to said study
http://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/
lujlp at January 18, 2018 2:18 PM
1) You and I read that differently
2) Kingsolver uses groping in the context of unwanted touch - in an essay she begins and ends with the example of teaching her daughters how to say "no" to what they do not want.
3) First, interesting article, thank you for the link.
I don't see how these numbers are pertinent to an essay about altering the cultural dynamic by teaching girls to clearly and unequivocally say "no."
Regardless, I read the article and looked at one of the links.
The writer of the article makes this claim without citing her specific source (document page), so I'm not sure how she did her math to arrive at this conclusion:
"Nearly 7 percent of men, however, reported that at some point in their lives, they were “made to penetrate” another person—usually in reference to vaginal intercourse, receiving oral sex, or performing oral sex on a woman. This was not classified as rape, but as “other sexual violence.”
And now the real surprise: when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011)."
~~~
I'm fine to agree with her assertion that being forced to penetrate someone counts as rape. She doesn't show her work though, and I think she might have done her math wrong, conceptually (these numbers are from the executive summary, "Key Findings Sexual Violence by Any Perpetrator" pg. 1 and 2):
nearly 1 in 5 women (raped) = 18.3 % of women surveyed.
compared to
1 in 71 men (raped) + 1 in 21 men (forced to penetrate)
1.4 % (of 71 people) + 4.8 % (of 21 people) = 7% (roughly)
The author of the Times article concludes "In other words, if being made to penetrate someone was counted as rape—and why shouldn’t it be?—then the headlines could have focused on a truly sensational CDC finding: that women rape men as often as men rape women."
I don't see how she reaches that conclusion.
ON PAGE 3 of the exec. summary (or 13 of 134 in the pdf count - most of which I did not read) - middle column, under the heading "Number and Sex of Perpetrators" (in part):
• Across all types of violence,
the majority of female victims
reported that their perpetrators
were male.
• Male rape victims and male
victims of non-contact
unwanted sexual experiences
reported predominantly male
perpetrators. ... Perpetrators of other
forms of violence against males
were mostly female.
~~~
So, giving the author of the Times piece the benefit of the doubt, starting with that 7%, first subtract the 1.4% that is the percentage of men raped according to the CDC definition, because the CDC report says that's largely done by men to men.
If we presume that the "forced to penetrate" percentage of 4.8 % is done entirely by women against men (because the CDC says, above, "Perpetrators of other forms of violence against males were mostly female.") then you're still comparing 4.8 percent (1 in 21) against 18.3 percent (1 in 5).
I don't know how the author of the Times piece concludes from this that "women rape men as often as men rape women."
https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf
Michelle at January 18, 2018 5:31 PM
Correction - I wrote, "because the CDC report says that's largely done by men to men," but I should have written "because the CDC report says that's largely done to men by men."
Michelle at January 18, 2018 7:00 PM
Team Michelle™
Crid at January 20, 2018 8:55 AM
Um, Snoopy, am I supposed to believe that construction workers don't make notably better money than the average waiter?
It's not as though the average woman is rich, after all. Whether she's pretty or not.
(I couldn't believe Rush Limbaugh's notorious comment from way back, regarding feminism, power and unattractive women - did he honestly think, before 1970 or so, that pretty women could always own their own property, go to college, get high paying jobs, get equal pay for equal work, rent their own apartments, or get their own credit cards? Not to mention, you know, the right to VOTE before 1920?)
lenona at January 20, 2018 10:15 AM
"am I supposed to believe that construction workers don't make notably better money than the average waiter?"
I'd say the comparative incomes fit the job requirements and dangers.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at January 20, 2018 12:34 PM
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