The Case For Community College
As an undergraduate at the University of Michigan, I had a number of large lectures taught by some T.A. -- teaching assistant -- rather than a professor. One of these was my communications class, which, most ironically, was often taught by some Chinese-born T.A. who spoke barely understandable English.
Also, these days, there are some really great young Ph.D.s rolling around, unable to get jobs or very good jobs. This means there's probably strong competition -- in a way there hasn't been in the past -- for prof jobs at community colleges.
Joseph Warta, who attended Wake Tech Community College, has a piece at James G. Martin Center about community colleges -- noting important ways they differ from the big state schools with big sports programs like the one I went to:
While at Wake Tech, I hardly ever heard of our sports teams, nor heard of anyone's studies distracted by the "big game." As for his discussion of an overworked and research-focused faculty, all of my classes were taught by an instructor with at least a master's in their field (of the 20 instructors that I had, 15 had a master's, four had a PhD, and one was working on her PhD). Graduate students as instructors are extremely rare at community colleges and faculty get paid to teach, not to conduct research.Community colleges also do not have large class sizes. According to Sperber, non-honors undergraduate students are packed like sardines into required classes like introductory English classes. Yet at Wake Tech, I took two introductory English classes taught by full-time, dedicated faculty who were able to give individualized attention to each student in a class of no more than 30 students. At Wake Tech overall, the class size never exceeded 60 students.
Nor was the social scene at Wake Tech driven by parties and sports. Many community college students are older--some even have families--and most students work at least part-time. And fraternities and sororities are nonexistent on community college campuses. Although community colleges are not scandal-free in athletics, the National Junior College Athletic Association (NJCAA) deals with fewer ethical problems.
The wide gulf between the four-year campus described by Sperber and my experience at Wake Tech suggests that students should consider starting their educations at community colleges. Even so, community colleges have problems of their own. They are hardly educational havens populated entirely by dedicated students and excellent faculty. They often suffer lagging academic standards and in-class bias, which I discuss in greater detail here.
But a well-run community college serves as a more welcoming home for undecided students than four-year universities. Those students get a more individualized education while saving thousands of dollars in tuition. For example, at Wake Tech, a full-time student taking 15 credit hours pays $1,324 per semester while a full-time student doing the same at North Carolina State University pays $4,550. Students who are "explorers" can find it much more cost effective to discover themselves at a local CC than at Big-Time U.
Community college is also a great way for someone who fucked off during high school to get in gear and get good grades -- grades that show they'll buckle down and do the work.
2 years at community college while living at home + 2 years at State U. = reasonably priced degree.
Snoopy at July 23, 2018 4:19 AM
My 4 year degree at 22 left me jobless with $30k debt. My 2 year degree at 38 had me making almost $90k/year within 12 month s. My husband's 2 year degree, that the air force paid him to get, gave him a great career that enabled me to stay home with the kids while they were little. I may be the only educated parent ever to actively dissuade their kids from a 4 year degree from a big-name school.
Momof4 at July 23, 2018 5:33 AM
My 4 year degree at 22 left me jobless with $30k debt. My 2 year degree at 38 had me making almost $90k/year within 12 month s. My husband's 2 year degree, that the air force paid him to get, gave him a great career that enabled me to stay home with the kids while they were little. I may be the only educated parent ever to actively dissuade their kids from a 4 year degree from a big-name school.
Momof4 at July 23, 2018 5:34 AM
Sounds good - except the community colleges don't want to be community colleges anymore. They're changing their names from Generic Community College to Generic State College or Generic College and expanding their degree offerings to include Bachelor's degrees.
How long until the prices at these former 2-year colleges rise to match those of other 4-year institutions? How long until the SJWs take over?
Conan the Grammarian at July 23, 2018 5:34 AM
I definitely sing the praises of a two year college. My education was as good as or better than at the local university at half the price. They worked with the University so transfer was seamless and I didn’t lose any credits.
I started back to school about 15 years ago and saw some changes during my time there. I attended a local, satellite campus. They started having students that had dual attendance at the University. They lived in the dorms and paid University prices but were bused to the satellite campus. Those students were given first choice rather than basing it on seniority. They encouraged the non-tradition students to take classes at the main campus - a two hour drive. At that time, I was still able to get in all of my classes with fancy maneuvering but it just stuck in my craw.
I still regret that I didn’t have our son start at a community college. He had a full ride at the University, so it didn’t make sense to us. Well the University was too big and overwhelming for him so he soon failed out. He transferred to a smaller school and was successful. A community college might have been the best thing for him. I know that it gave me the confidence I needed to succeed.
Jen at July 23, 2018 6:13 AM
"2 years at community college while living at home + 2 years at State U. = reasonably priced degree."
That's becoming common here. There's a community college that has become a big presence in town. Go two years, transfer your credits. Saves a lot of money, and as noted up-thread, it's good for students who don't know what they want to major in.
"Sounds good - except the community colleges don't want to be community colleges anymore. They're changing their names from Generic Community College to Generic State College or Generic College and expanding their degree offerings to include Bachelor's degrees."
I know what you're talking about. It won't be a problem here because the community college spun off from a (small) four-year school. They won't offer four-year degrees because that would be competing with the parent school.
Cousin Dave at July 23, 2018 7:54 AM
I just cannot imagine any Chinese kid doing this at all.
All I can think of is the youngster saying this to his/her parents, followed by the mother doing six hours of non-stop emotional blackmail/extortion/abuse to make sure such blasphemous thought never happens again.
Sixclaws at July 23, 2018 8:36 AM
We got our first 2 through school before prices went so high. The third went to 2 yrs community then 2 years small college all while living at home and for the full 4 yrs we paid probably $40,000 total.
I think one reason more guys are skipping college compared to girls is money. Guys have an incentive to be independent (girls are repelled by a guy with no $ living at home) and big debt does not help that goal.
cc at July 23, 2018 10:22 AM
"I just cannot imagine any Chinese kid doing this at all."
How many of these are taking "gender studies"?
Radwaste at July 23, 2018 2:56 PM
I had a number of large lectures taught by some T.A. -- teaching assistant -- rather than a professor. One of these was my communications class, which, most ironically, was often taught by some Chinese-born T.A. who spoke barely understandable English.
It was just the opposite when I was in college. The professors spoke with incomprehensible foreign accents, while the TAs (who worked with undergraduates one-on-one) were easy to understand, and also knew from recent experience what problems we were likely to have with the material.
Rex Little at July 23, 2018 4:59 PM
Is an art degree an acceptable substitute? If so, Emma Sulkowicz would be a perfect example.
Sixclaws at July 23, 2018 8:37 PM
This discussion is largely moot - the new entry level will be made up of distance learning (modularized to allow part-time study) and dolled-up, private-sector versions of trade school.
European countries like Germany already have "technician" tracks that are at the same level as the poorer US engineering programs.
In addition, people like programmers - including the new breed of shop-floor machine programmers - are going to be constantly specializing and updating their knowledge. Many of my coworkers in Israeli hi-tech have either made themselves gurus or "gig economy" consultant-warriors by pursuing a niche of post-college expertise. Often the current employer pays for the ongoing education.
The increasing insertion of higher computing power and artificial intelligence into "manufacturing" and "service" environments will continue to blur the distinction between 4-year "Engineers" and various "technicians" - except for areas where a licensed engineer has to sign off on a structural design.
We are already seeing companies take on the burden of training workers in the use of their machines - it's a strategic investment.
One example is the high level of programming required for the next generation of knitting machines, which can knit fully shaped garments without cutting or sewing - acheiving the Holy Grail of clothing manufacture that does not chase cheap labor. The companies developing these machines offer full training courses, including distance learning and an on-site training package.
Getting "certified" on these machines is a transferrable credential just like a BA or welder's certificate - and it will all happen outside the university.
Ben David at July 27, 2018 4:46 AM
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