Answering Machines, Rollup Windows, The Betamax, And Expectations Of Personal Responsibility For Young Women
Yes, there's something all of these things have in common, and it's that they're getting more and more rare these days -- if you even see them at all.
Tired, so I'll post a couple of tweets about the expectation so many women -- especially young women -- now have that the world transform into Coddleville...lest they be forced to take even the slightest bit of personal responsibility. (Link to what I'm talking about in the first tweet is in the second tweet.)
Lately, women's unrealistic demands on how world *should* work are just bizarre. 2 hours into 1st date, they're in bed - despite how she feels "unsafe" when men disappear post-sex. Her view: not that she should hold off on sex, but that Tinder hookups should act like loving BFs https://t.co/4d8d2DqKTB
— Amy Alkon (@amyalkon) September 7, 2018
Post-sex ghosting story: https://t.co/ysU0rMJJ4h
— Amy Alkon (@amyalkon) September 7, 2018
You cannot control another's behavior; you can only figure out what works for you and act in ways that make that likely to happen. She may be "sexually liberated" but she isn't emotionally liberated enough to have happy hookups.
Positive proof that being a pretty young woman with degrees from fancy universities does not make up for a lack of self esteem and common sense. Was she unable to say “no”?
KateC at September 7, 2018 9:44 PM
Wait...a woman needs to be more than a pretty face and a good lay to keep a guy from ghosting on her? who knew?
Was she unable to say “no”?
No, no. That wasn't the problem. The paramor in her story was quite legalistic in getting her "yeses".
"May I take your sweater off?"
"May I take your tank top off?"
"May I take your bra off?"
He was 6 years younger and that all struck her as being legalistic and unfamiliar to her. And it was, because when she asked (at a later hookup) if it was ok to unbuckle his belt he (paraphrased) you don't have to ask my permission. Which is to say that "women can do what they want".
He came of age in the period that if you didn't get a "yes" at every stage, you might just be a droolin' rapist should you continue.
I R A Darth Aggie at September 8, 2018 5:43 AM
Yes, people can say whatever they want and sex is not a contract...still, his ghosting strikes me as shitty.
He could have just said goodbye or it was fun, but he talked about next time and preparing a fancy meal. That implies that the relationship is going somewhere.
No wonder she was left bewildered.
Jen at September 8, 2018 7:05 AM
Back in my younger days as a debauched libertine, I had many hook-ups. Most became friends or at least friendly acquaintances. I can't think of one who totally ghosted.
NicoleK at September 8, 2018 7:56 AM
Notice that, in the article, she never tells us about the dates they went on or the late night chats they had. Just that she invited him up to her apartment for sex.
The lesson here is not that consent rules do not protect you from being ghosted, but that sleeping with a guy on the first date(?) means you're a sex hook-up, not a potential partner, no matter how many times he politely asks permission to undo your bra.
Hook-up culture is not protective of women's long-term emotional needs. Feminists need to stop pretending those needs don't matter because men ignore their own to get sex.
"Sex is not dentistry, the slick filling of aches and cavities." ~ Margaret Atwood (Is/Not)
Conan the Grammarian at September 8, 2018 8:00 AM
I read that article through Ace of Spades. Hard to know where to start.... Why is she so freakin clueless as to what happened here? What did she really expect? Why does she not have a sense of whether or not a real relationship is developing? Does she even know what a real relationship feels like? Why are people--especially women, sorry--willing to engage in the most intimate of acts in situations of extreme vulnerability with STRANGERS?? They are strangers!! If you wouldn't give a person the key to your apartment or a copy of your bank statement, why would you trust them with your body, your health, and your emotions?
RigelDog at September 8, 2018 8:15 AM
This seems to be mainly about the control of personal relationships via rules promulgated by Higher Authority, rather than by internalized values.
The guy had been taught that he must ask step-by-step permission for things like bra unfastening.
He had not been taught that it is rude to have sex with someone, imply that there will be a next time, and then just disappear.
So he did the former but not the latter, just like a computer system faced with a situation that the programmer did not provide for.
David Foster at September 8, 2018 8:21 AM
Hey, I have six Sony SuperBeta HiFi recorders. I see 'em every day.
Jay J. Hector at September 8, 2018 8:39 AM
When he kept requesting a statement of consent for every little thing, even after she told him he didn't need to, it wasn't because he was 'showing care'.
It was him showing that he didn't trust her and felt the need to establish a defense in case she turned on him.
honestly at September 8, 2018 8:46 AM
He implied more and then vanished because that is how you get a head start. As Honestly says he clearly doesn't trust her. Why would he. As RigelDog notes they are strangers. He shouldn't trust her. I don't call his actions admirable. But they certainly are rational.
"He could have just said goodbye or it was fun .."
Bullshit Jen. At least if you are in college. And I recognize neither of them likely are given their ages. But all the affirmative consent stuff he did comes from there. And in college if you have an experience like this and say what you claim he should have said the guy better put his running shoes on and hot foot it to the title 9 commission and press charges against her. Because it is far too likely she will be grumpy in a day or two and pressing charges against him.
Ben at September 8, 2018 9:06 AM
I need to hear the guy's side of the story before I'll believe her.
Jay J. Hector at September 8, 2018 9:21 AM
I really don't understand hookups. As everyone should know by now, it IS possible to have a serious or permanent disease and not know it - and condoms don't protect against hepatitis, for one. So even "nice" people can infect you with that - or herpes, without meaning to put you at risk.
Why would you want to have that worry hanging over you - or the worry that you might unknowingly infect someone else and get sued? How difficult can it be for parents to teach sons and daughters alike that refusing even to TALK, with your dates, about the possibility of having sex is, very often, nothing more than self-respect?
(Of course, that still leaves the problem of just how to ask your soon-to-be SPOUSE the following question: "Do you have a note from your doctor to prove you're clean?")
lenona at September 8, 2018 11:00 AM
People want the law to accommodate the most irrational neurotic women.
Snoopy at September 8, 2018 12:11 PM
The pill seemed to separate sex from having babies, but it does not separate sex from having feelings. Sex makes you very vulnerable. People fall for someone just because of the sex, not even asking about their criminal record, restraining orders, financial status, job status,jerk status, etc. After good sex you don't care about any of that, and yet you should.
My friend apparently got Hep C in the Peace Corp in Jamaica and didn't know until it was too late--died at 56. There are lots of permanent consequences from sex. Women think oh, I can get an abortion, but I know cases where once they got pregnant they realized they couldn't do it, and were stuck with a kid. You can get HPV and then cervical cancer. You can get stuck with a crazy person or druggie (male of female). All this playing around like it is no biggie is really playing with fire.
Perhaps worst in my view is that all that sex without love makes you jaded for the real thing, kills your ability to really bond with someone.
cc at September 8, 2018 4:34 PM
Wow she completely misunderstands what this guy was doing/saying.
Him asking permission is saying he doesn't get her clues and knows if he missteps he is screwed.
To her kissing her arm is intimate, sex isn't. He thinks the exact opposite.
A asking permission from B and not vice versa she sees as honoring and equality, it's anything but.
She sees tinder and sex on the first date as the way to start a real relationship, he and pretty much most see it as a way to have no strings attached hookups.
he says:“I’m not comfortable with that.”
She doesn't see that as a bad sign.
Joe j at September 8, 2018 5:53 PM
I give her credit for acknowledging that she found his 'affirmative consent' behavior litigious and insulting - as though she had 'no agency'.
She's probably going to get heat for that.
honestly at September 8, 2018 8:10 PM
He implied more and then vanished because that is how you get a head start.
Its also a great way to get a few texts asking 'why no contact as we had such a great time' in case she does cry rape
I give her credit for acknowledging that she found his 'affirmative consent' behavior litigious and insulting - as though she had 'no agency'
According to the rules promulgated by feminists she does not have any agency as all sex is pretty much something DONE TO women that they would never really consent to anyway
lujlp at September 9, 2018 12:32 AM
Yep Lujlp. As I said it isn't admirable but it is rational.
Ben at September 9, 2018 7:19 AM
"Is it O.K. if I act like I care about you and then destroy your life days/weeks/months later with false accusations of violent sexual assault?”
Fixed it for her...
bkmale at September 9, 2018 8:13 AM
Btw, it's young PEOPLE who think it's their right to be coddled in general - not just young women. Here's some proof:
https://www.amazon.com/Coddling-American-Mind-Intentions-Generation/dp/0735224897#customerReviews
(I don't know whether the authors have altered anything in their writing since the Atlantic article by them in 2015.)
lenona at September 9, 2018 11:32 AM
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