Racist -- Or Speaks English Like Italian Is Her First Language?!
A friend of mine from Italy has always called me "HAY-mee."
Do we think that's due to "a long and racist history" (as this radio piece contends about why people mispronounce names) or maybe...because she speaks English like an Italian!
There are three hosts on the show -- Keya Roy, Zuheera Ali, and Medha Kumar. One of them, a woman (Keya), at the beginning of the piece, talks about using the name "Billy" for the barista to write on her coffee cup. (Because the barista would likely have trouble with her actual name -- and as if this is some horrible indignity.)
(I suspect that we have so much leisure and such lives of ease that people busy themselves being offended by all sorts of things.)
They then go about the HORROR of having to correct people on their names. "My name is part of my identity, and to allow someone to say it wrong is stripping me of that.
Guess what: I work as a volunteer mediator one day a week at the LA City Attorney's office. Part of my work is calling people about the cases they want to mediate. When I leave a message, I will say, just ask for "Amy," as "I'm the only Amy here." Why? Because people are going to be all, "Elkahn? How do I spell that?", and I don't want to give people with problems one more thing to fret about.
I would venture that what keeps these women feeling so anguishingly victimized is their own notion that they are victimized -- by people who surely did not grow up around many people named Keya, Zuheera, and Medha getting their names wrong.
What do you do in a case like this? You do what a black Muslim woman from Watts did in our mediation training at the end of one of the days. She wrote her name down phonetically on a piece of paper so I could say it and remember it. (My memory and cognitive chops get a little spongy after a long day of learnin' new things.) She wasn't offended. She was a radiant person who was there to learn to bring peace to her community.
Again, I think what these ladies really need is a hobby -- perhaps one in which they gaze on navels that belong to other people in need of some assistance!
I find this so utterly ridiculous. No one in Switzerland can pronounce my name because the "za" in Suzanne doesn't exist in German. So, they call me Susan.
Race has nothing to do with it. Their mouths can't form the sounds because they didn't learn it as children. Sure, they could go through intense lessons, but honestly, I'm okay with Susan.
I can't pronounce a bunch of Swiss names either because my mouth doesn't go that way.
And, we all share a cultural background with a lot of biblical names.
Now, ask me to pronounce names from India or the Congo and I'm completely stumped. They aren't recognizable to me and I have to work hard.
Are these offended people arguing that we should spend all of second grade studying names of the world so that we can all say them right? Who would teach this?
And Starbucks never gets anyone's name right. Go on with your day, people.
Suzanne Lucas at March 24, 2019 10:58 PM
They aren’t victims. They are perpetrators.
Wfjag at March 25, 2019 2:01 AM
These are people who go through life looking for something to be offended by.
Do they ever have a light or happy moment? They seem to revel in their discomfort.
Jay at March 25, 2019 4:21 AM
Amy: I suspect that we have so much leisure and such lives of ease that people busy themselves being offended by all sorts of things.
You...suspect??? How hard does something have to hit you over the head before your suspicions become certainties?
Patrick at March 25, 2019 4:42 AM
My last name has exactly four letters.
It's mispronounced. Constantly. I don't even worry about it any more.
Old RPM Daddy (OldRPMDaddy at GMail dot com) at March 25, 2019 5:18 AM
My surname is of German extraction. It contains a "ch" in it. Correct pronunciation will be as a hard K sound. I tell people it is pronounced the same way as "school".
because my mouth doesn't go that way
This. So totally this. And bless that lady who spelled her name phonetically.
I R A Darth Aggie at March 25, 2019 6:18 AM
There's a sandwich shop near where I work that is very popular at lunch. Their process is that when you order, you give them a name, and then you find a table and sit down. When you food is ready, they call your name; you raise your hand and they bring your food to you. I long ago realized that if I give them "Dave", when they call it, about six guys are going to raise their hands. So now I give them my initials.
My surname is unusual. I've long since become accustomed to having to spell it for people. No biggie. Although it used to be amusing to see what kinds of misspellings I would get on pieces of mail addressed to me.
Cousin Dave at March 25, 2019 6:22 AM
"...what keeps these women victimized..."
The exaggeration of the difficulty of one's own situation is a natural human foible, these guys got it right IMO:
http://www.montypython.net/scripts/4york.php
As long as one keeps it there it remains just that, a foible that is easily let go. The trouble we have now is that many have "weaponized" it, using this way to gain attention and power with minimal effort. And with females, and their insatiable covert/indirect competitiveness, it has gone to truly horrible levels. "Mean Girls" on plutonium..
bkmale at March 25, 2019 6:39 AM
My name is a strange Americanization of an Indian name. It’s bad enough that my first grade teacher thought I did not know how to spell my name (imagine her surprise when my father told her I was spelling it correctly). Even though it is constantly misspelled and mispronounced, I cannot imagine getting so upset about it. Most of the time it sparks a fun little conversation and a chance to be witty. I laugh, the other person laughs, and we move on to the rest of our day. People really need to get over themselves.
N at March 25, 2019 6:56 AM
Interesting on "Suzanne"! Had no idea!
Amy Alkon at March 25, 2019 7:22 AM
You'd think my name, "Kent", would be easy. Nope. People call me "Keith", "Kenny", or "Mike" (huh?) all the time. And I don't even try to tell people my last name unless they insist-- and then they act like it's unpronounceable. But, whatever. I don't care how badly people "McMangle" my name as long as they aren't trying to be nasty. And most aren't (at least since the end of kinderprison).
But my name isn't part of my "identity". That would just be pathetic.
Kent McManigal at March 25, 2019 8:35 AM
Many people with "unconventional" names experience a different kind of anxiety in this moment: figuring out what "safe" and "easy" name they should use that day.
The correct pronunciation of my name is of no consequence when used in a fleeting business transaction like a coffee purchase. Anyone who feels "anxiety" over such a triviality must quiver and collapse at life's larger moments, which would consist of Just About Any Fucking Thing Else.
Kevin at March 25, 2019 9:08 AM
I have noticed that people are getting much better at pronouncing strange names because we see them and hear them more. However, taking offense about that is absurd. My last name is hard to pronounce and I've dealt with it all my life. When the nurse comes out with her clip-board and pauses before calling it out, I know it is for me. On the other hand, John Smith will get mixed up with other John Smiths all the time.
Taking offense tells the world that you think you are a really important person. But you aren't. My black neighbor after we were close friends told me that he was very impressed that I would come talk to him, since other people in the neighborhood did not. I didn't tell him that people in the neighborhood don't talk to me either, they just all keep to themselves.
A common element in much of the offense is that failing to properly do something (say their name, use their pronouns, affirm their sexuality) is erasing their identity. These are strangers who do not know you. There are 9 billion of them out there. Do you require 9 billion people to affirm you for your identity to be intact? Sad.
cc at March 25, 2019 9:19 AM
Mine gets mangled all the time. For small transactions, I'll issue a quick correction and move on. If the other person cannot implement the correction, I let it go. For larger ones, I repeat it.
If I'm paying you $50,000 for an automobile, the least you can do is get my name right. If I'm paying you $3.50 for a coffee, we'll probably never see each other again and I don't need the drama of trying to humiliate you for a good faith failure to pronounce my name.
"Kinderprison?" I like that.
Conan the Grammarian at March 25, 2019 9:26 AM
"I don't care how badly people "McMangle" my name as long as they aren't trying to be nasty."
Same here. If they're intentionally insulting I'll push every button they've got until they're on the verge of tears or violence. Go ahead, lose your shit in front of your boss. Let's see what happens.
No quarter for bullies. None.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at March 25, 2019 10:56 AM
Suzanne, you me and Bradley should have an Advice Goddess Fans meet-up at some point.
NicoleK at March 25, 2019 12:36 PM
"za" in Suzanne doesn't exist in German
Um ... "zahn" means "tooth," "zanken" means "to quarrel," etc., etc. "Z" is pronounced "ts" (so Nazi = Naht-zee). I would expect any German speaker to say "Soot-zahn" for "Suzanne." Maybe you're in the French-speaking part of Switzerland?
Szoszolo at March 25, 2019 1:15 PM
I mispronounce my own last name.
My name is Italian, named after a tiny village on a hilltop. Supposedly, the name is derived from the Italian word for "hilltop," collinare.
(Note: again, "collinare" is not my name. My last name is the same as the Italian village and commune, which is derived from the word "collinare.")
I don't use the Italian pronunciation of my own name; I use a pronunciation that English speakers would predict seeing my name and sounding it out according to the (usual) rules of English pronunciation.
I suppose the SJWs would say it's racist of me and I should insist upon the Italian pronunciation, since it's their village, their language.
I'll insist upon the Italian pronunciation of my own name (though I cannot promise my relatives would follow suit) when SJWs stop using the horrible neologism "latinx."
The words "Latino" and "Latina" are Spanish and gender-specific. To bastardize the Spanish word is cultural appropriation and disrespectful.
Also, these words are nouns, not adjectives. Looking at you Justice Sotomayor, you self-styled "wise Latina woman."
Patrick at March 25, 2019 1:16 PM
"Suzanne, you me and Bradley should have an Advice Goddess Fans meet-up at some point."
After all this, am I nothing to you?! *snif*
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at March 25, 2019 3:52 PM
There are three hosts on the show -- Keya Roy, Zuheera Ali, and Medha Kumar.
You know, if they introduced themselves by their last names -Roy, Ali, and Kumar- no one would have any problem pronouncing them. Of course then what would they have to piss and whine about?
Ken McE at March 25, 2019 4:41 PM
Roy? Is that like the French-Canadian version, which is pronounced as 'wah'?
I R A Darth Aggie at March 25, 2019 8:07 PM
My name is Ken: K-E-N. Can it get any simpler? And yet, where I work there are immigrants of color who can't say it. Sometimes when they say my name and talk to me I'm not aware that I'm the one they're talking to, which is fine; they're constantly asking me what to do next.
There is one African American woman of color at work (I also know African Americans of whiteness) who pronounces Ken as if it has two syllables: 'Kee-in. She immigrated from Mississippi, which is some strange place in the deep South where people say things differently than we do here in the Pacific Northwest. I think her accent is charming.
There are some immigrants of color who I work with who misgender everybody. They're from Philippines, India and Africa. They use he/him/his in reference to females and she/her/hers in reference to males. There are two psychiatrists who do this consistently - one from India and one from Allah knows where. You even see it in medical records, especially ones they dictate through voice recognition software. You'd think by now they'd know the difference between gender pronouns.
Ken R at March 25, 2019 8:44 PM
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