Gender
Feminism left people really confused. When a guy opens a door for a women, does she tell him to go screw himself or does she just say "Thank you"? (Let's hope the answer is obvious.) Who pays on dates is a trickier question. What's your experience with manners and rudeness gender to gender?
Comments
I have had several men lately look dumbstruck when I smile and thank them for holding a door open for me. I'm guessing they got iced by some women who think it's okay to snarl at people who act politely.
I hold the door open for others all the time, just as my family taught me. I once walked up behind a woman who was trying to open a door and keep a hold on her double stroller at the same time. There were two middle-aged men waiting behind her who made no move to help. I trotted right up and grabbed the door so she could get her stroller unstuck from the threshold. She thanked me profusely. The two men then walked in behind her while I was still holding the door, neither of them saying anything to me or her. I blame the uberfeminists who rail on about how holding a door means you're demeaning women.
On the subject of door-holding, I do have a quibble: if the woman is so far away that you have to wait more than ten seconds or so for her to even get to the door, then it's okay to go on through. It annoys men when I see a man just standing there holding the door looking at me while I'm still making my way through the parking lot. I appreciate the thought, but that's almost as bas as letting the door slam in my face.
Posted by: NumberSix at September 2, 2010 4:02 AM
If you haven't seen it yet, there's a ton of interesting stuff here:
http://myfaultimfemale.wordpress.com/
Posted by: Ann at September 2, 2010 5:30 AM
Visited that site, Ann, and while there are some legitimate cases of sexism on there, I'm astounded at the number of people who take offense at anything (especially at people they don't know). This story made me cringe the most out of the three pages I read. The vitriol coming from this "lady" is pretty awful. Dear God, you mean someone actually thought that a young couple moving into a new house may actually have children?! It's a world gone amok! Some of the commenters sound pretty sensible, but they're beaten down by the posters who are all "we can't let sexism slide in any circumstance." One of them rightly points out that it's not unreasonable for the woman to assume you'll have children as you've not told her otherwise yet (if she continually hounds you after you've told her you don't want kids, then that's a different matter). She was being a welcoming neighbor and offering her services as a surrogate grandma. Alert the damn guards.
This goes along with what I said earlier about hating when women yell at men for holding the door open for them. Yes, some people may not get the childfree-by-choice thing. Why does that give you a pass to be rude to them when they haven't yet been rude to you? At least the woman in the post didn't actually say anything to the sweet old woman.
Not everything is about gender discrimination, ladies, and, even if it is, that doesn't make it okay to be preemptively rude. Taking offense at every little thing like that only reflects poorly on you. I take my cues from Miss Manners on this point.
Posted by: NumberSix at September 2, 2010 7:40 AM
Oh, I totally agree with you, NumberSix. There are some frothy man-hating posters on that site for sure. You do get some really interesting ones on there, though.
The stupidest one, IMHO, was that one with the car. I couldn't even figure out WTF the commercial was about, let alone whether or not it was sexist.
There's a good number of people on that site who get up pretty early in the morning to work on being offended. But there's enough good stuff so far that I keep going back (we'll see how long that lasts).
Posted by: Ann at September 2, 2010 4:35 PM
To make up for all those snarly or thankless women who have held doors open for them by men:
I always make sure that I thank a man as sincerely as I possibly can when I get a door held open for me. I also give him a bright smile and wish him a good day while passing through.
My hope is that it offsets any rudeness that he might otherwise encounter from nasty women who can't be appreciative.
Posted by: Jen Wading at September 2, 2010 11:24 PM
The post that was on top when I went there last was pretty good, I thought, and it was from a guy. Some of the others were legitimate gripes, too. But I just feel bad for the sensible people on there who ask the question "Is it really sexism, or are you just overreacting?"
A bit of the rudeness subject, but I'm currently hating the beer commercial where the guy asks his girlfriend to go "window shopping" and she keeps stopping and looking at all the wedding stuff, but he just drags her away. I'm offended on behalf of both women and men on that one, because it uses two stereotypes that I abhor: the woman obsessed with marriage and the guy who is terrified of even letting his girlfriend look admiringly at a dress, lest she get ideas. I wonder how much beer that one sells.
Posted by: NumberSix at September 3, 2010 6:36 AM
NumberSix: I understand where you're coming from regarding the touchy childfree people vs. those elderly people who haven't yet heard that the childfree (not childless) exist and deserve as much respect as future parents.
But there's considerably more to it than that. From commenter Alibelle:
......There are a lot of reasons not to bring up children with the assumption that people want them. One commenter pointed out that some people are physically unable to have children. Some people don’t want them. Some people can’t afford them. Some people have lost children. This constantly asking about WHEN people are going to have kids can be extremely hurtful.
That said, it’s not like there’s any reason to yell at the woman or tell her that she’s an asshole or something. Just move on, like the OP did, when you have to deal with this kind of person. If they’re very insistent then is the time to give them a talking to. But, this is a blog where women come to tell stories that frustrated them to make them feel better about the problems they had to deal with.
(snip)
BTW, George Carlin would quite likely have sympathized.
From page 171(?) of "Napalm & Silly Putty":
"Would someone please explain to me the supposed appeal of having grandchildren? People ask me, 'Are you a grandfather yet?' as if it's
some great thing. I'm sure it has its charms, and I imagine some dull-witted people want to see their genes passed along for the sheer
novelty of the idea. But overall, I don't get it."
(His daughter, to my knowledge, has always been happily childfree. I suspect the above was also Carlin's way of saying "it's HER private business, damn it, so knock off the subject when you're talking to me!" Not to mention that given his and his wife's terrifying drug habits, he was probably also saying to her "yes, we screwed up, so I don't blame you for not breeding.")
Posted by: lenona at September 4, 2010 2:31 AM
I don't like it when I get asked if/when I am going to have kids but my husband never does. We want to decide this together and its our choice -not only mine.
Posted by: Ula at September 4, 2010 6:13 AM
I could have been out of line ...
I was in a crowded elevator. A woman got on carrying a box. Her posture suggested it was heavy. She told another man already in the elevator "If you were a real man you would help me carry this." That demand got me riled up, and I made a snarky comment. An argument broke out in the elevator but died down quickly. Eventually the man took the box, and the woman responded "Chivalry is not dead". I just shook my head. The man didn't say anything. My feeling is he was guilted into taking the box. Had the man on his own offered to hold the box wouldn't have meant anything to me. It was the woman demanding he should that got my goat.
I will offer my seat on a train to an elderly person, a pregant woman, an obviously handicapped person, etc., even a loving couple so they can sit together when there's one empty seat next to me, but I will never offer my seat to a woman just because she's a woman. I believe in gender equality, after all. As a man I have as much right to the seat as a woman. If that makes me rude, so be it.
Posted by: hadsil at September 4, 2010 8:18 PM
I don't think you're rude, I think that woman was a bitch for acting like that. I probably would have said something to her, too.
Posted by: Ann at September 4, 2010 8:24 PM
I agree, lenona, that you should talk to the person if the behavior persists, and I said that I am glad the OP in that instance didn't actually say anything. But I don't think it's good for her to immediately react the way she did, even in her head. Really? A woman you just met says she will babysit for you and your first thought is "why don’t I link my vagina to your house via pneumatic tube and I’ll crank ‘em out as fast as I can"? Seriously? This does fall under the "looking for reasons to be offended" heading, in my opinion. I understand wanting to vent, but I just don't see that benign comment as reason for that mental reaction. If it happened a couple of times, I say definitely talk to her and tell her your decision on having kids. But for that first incident, I would say to smile at her and say "I hope it wouldn't take that long for us to get together. How about coming over for a cup of tea one afternoon?"
Hadsil, I have to agree with you on not giving up your seat for any woman. I'm all for being polite (I hold open doors for men and other women all the time because it's nice), but I don't feel a man should have to give up his seat for me if he got there first. I'm young and in good health and can stand if need be. I'll even offer my seat to someone who seems to need it more than I do: children, the elderly and the injured or infirm. I do it regardless of gender. On an airport shuttle once, I gave my seat to a young man with a broken leg. Apparently, I was the first in the airport to have tried to accommodate him because of his injury. He shouldn't have to try to stand and hold onto the pole, juggling his bag and crutches, because I feel entitled as a woman.
Posted by: NumberSix at September 5, 2010 1:16 AM
When people ask me if I'm planning to have kids (I apparently look a bit younger than my years) I reply, "Thanks God I've dodged that bullet!". My coworker (who's Korean and looks incredibly sweet and innocuous) got tired of people asking why she and her husband didn't have kids, whether they were infertile, etc. So she started smiling sweetly and saying to the most insistent, "Oh, we don't believe in mixing the races." That shut people up right quick!
Posted by: Anathema at September 11, 2010 1:56 AM
My friend told me one this weekend.
They're getting ready for the school's open house and this year, they all are required to have the same presentation for each classroom. So she creates a bare bones PowerPoint, to be filled in with each teacher's individual information for the presentation. Ten minutes before the parents are supposed to be in the classroom, the first year (male) teacher from next door walks in.
"So, do I need to be doing anything with a computer or anything for this?"
Her jaw dropped. They must've mentioned the PowerPoint every day that week. And then he tells her that he doesn't have a laptop with him, after she made an announcement earlier that week about how they don't have any more school laptops to give out. So basically, he's completely unprepared. So what she has to do is give him her county laptop, throw his info on there, and then use her personal laptop for her own presentation. All in ten minutes before the parents get in there.
Naturally, throughout this insanity, she's not exactly friendly towards him. She's short and lectures him on paying attention during the meetings. Later, she regrets it. It's his first year after all, and even though he should've come to her earlier, she'll cut him some slack.
So the next day, she goes up to him and says, "You know, I'm sorry if I was short with you the other day, I was under a lot of pressure. It wasn't professional, and I apologize."
His response? I'll give you a hint; it wasn't "I'm sorry, too, I should've taken notes at the meetings and been prepared earlier in the day." Oh no.
"It's okay, I've worked with women before."
Wow. And apparently, it's been that kinda working relationship since, too. He's constantly unprepared, doing his own thing, and completely unhelpful.
Posted by: cornerdemon at September 22, 2010 7:31 PM
My sister, after giving the work back to the former Treasury agent, to be redone, for the THIRD time, "Close enough for government work ain't gonna get it here."
Posted by: nonegiven at September 25, 2010 7:05 AM
My pet peeve is how this boy tried to convince me to gossip about Justin Bieber's problems in a sexual way. I told him no and he told me "You're a girl, you should gossip!" I told this boy off for being a snot. I do not like celebrity gossip and I am uncomfortable with topics like that and I do not like boys telling me to gossip simply because I'm a woman.
Posted by: Unhappy at January 24, 2014 12:44 AM