It's just a fact of life when you're binational.

I think I had a French accent when I was little... based on my phonetic spellings of words as a kid... and I also have that olivey skin that tans easily, and kids asked me where I was from sometimes.

And on both sides of the Atlantic my dark coloring gets commented on, I get asked if I'm Arab or Italian or whatever. I'm not, I'm just on the dark end of the White spectrum (DNA tests showed trace amounts of other races, but not from the swarthy side of the family).

When people overhear me speak English to my kids here they ask me where I'm from (if they try guessing they usually say England or Canada).

The thing is... it IS different, and differences make people curious. That's not the end of the world.

It can be a conversation starter. In America I get told about people's Swiss vacations and love of fondue, in Switzerland I get told about how they love or hate our politicians, or about their trip to Montana. Sometimes I have to explain where Boston is. (Northeast of New York, about a four hour drive). Or explain that Lausanne is not Lucerne.

I don't find it insulting.

The absolutely ridiculous idea that asking where you are from is offensive is only a product of white guilt leaking onto others.
If you are proud of yourself or the group with which you identify, specifically because of achievements, nobody can put you down, and it is not a third party's job to insulate you from any hint of failure in some interdemographic quest for participant trophies.

Ignorance also contributes to false outrage. If you don't know that "diversity" actually means NO ONE has the same abilities, you'll be easy to offend; reality itself will do that.

No offense intended (how may times do I need to say that phrase before I ask something nowadays!); but, I would be tempted to ask Lisa how to pronounce her last name - Simeone.

It is NOT because I find it "exotic" or "ethnic" or "odd" or anything else, it would be a simple request because I don't want to mispronounce it. So, I ask. And way too many times I've been told that asking someone how to pronounce their name was a microaggression.

Seriously, at work we had to take an online course about "diversity" and they mentioned "white privileged" and listed examples of "microaggressions." One of those microaggressions was asking someone how to pronounce their name!

I'm guessing that it is something like see-me-own-neigh (Now there's another microaggression - doing a phonetic spelling for Americans); but, I'm asking because I don't want to just guess and be wrong. She could very well pronounce it simply like Simon.

What do the wokerati want me to do? Mispronounce it and hope that she corrects me? Or do they think I should just be able to pronounce everyone's name correctly the first time?

Ha ha! Hi, charles. I'll be happy to tell you how I pronounce it (though keep in mind there are dozens of other Lisa Simeones in the world, including in this country, and many of them pronounce it differently).

I pronounce it: sim-ee-OH-nee.

I know of at least two others (both in Chicago as it happens), one of whom pronounces it the same way I do and the other who pronounces it with three syllables instead of four (sim-ee-own).

I'd like to say I find it unbelievable that when you've asked someone how to pronouce their name you've been told the question is a "micro-aggression"; alas, it's all too believable. And utterly ridiculous.

I fight back on this shit every chance I get. But I'm more or less out of the standard workforce (at least out of offices), so I don't have to put up with this crap. Same with the pronoun merry-go-round. What I'd really like to say next time somebody starts yapping about pronouns is:

"See these tits? What do you think my pronouns are?"

One of those microaggressions was asking someone how to pronounce their name! ~ charles at November 18, 2021 5:43 AM

My surname in real life is pretty simple, five letters, but people have a difficult time pronouncing it, so it gets mangled on a regular basis. I've gotten used to it, but still appreciate the people who ask and at least attempt to get it right before mangling it.

I ask people that question about where are you from for two reasons: 1) Maybe I have visited their country or read a lot about it, in which case it is an ice-breaker. 2) my hobby is guessing accents and I am pretty good at it. Again, it has started many conversations.
My wife could be italian, french, greek, etc and thinks it is funny when people try to guess. Maybe she needs to practice yelling at people....nah.

Ahh, the lengths offended third parties will go to tell you what to do!

There is a simple thing to mention about proper names, should someone object to curiousity:

Proper names have no standard pronunciation.
Witness the British, "St. John Smith": it's "sinjon smith" to the ear.

"Prczsk" is pronounced "Smith". They're all silent! (j/k)

"Where are you from?" is the quintessential American question. We built a country, and a people, out of scratch - sometimes with the barest of ingredients.

Louis Rukeyser, in describing his first visit with his in-laws, who were natives of the Isle of Man, said he asked his father-in-law, "How long has your family lived here?" His father-in-law looked at him like he'd just grown an extra head and said, "Always."

While there's no need to get one's blood pressure up by getting offended, per se, that doesn't mean that it's polite - even for children - to ask personal questions. Or to be overly familiar in general.

Examples: While of course it would be wrong to get mad at a child you've just met who stares at your white hair and wrinkles and asks "how old are you," ANY sensible parent should be teaching that child not to ask personal questions in the first place, if only so as to prevent the child's embarrassing the parent.

(And I hope I don't need to explain why adults shouldn't be asking that question either, unless they're authorized to do so.)

In the same vein, while most American adults have surrendered to the custom of using first names in all adult gatherings, one should not assume (especially in social situations) that anyone WANTS to do that. Especially when the person is elderly - but some young people like formality as well. (Same goes for those minorities who used to be addressed contemptuously, like children. They have good reason to dislike first-name usage.)

In the meantime, here's a 2013 thread where all this was discussed:

http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2013/07/miami-tsa-worke.html

I don't think anybody is really offended when a white dude asks them where they are from. It's just a made up grievance that people of color can wield against whites and another hurdle for whites to navigate, to keep them on edge.

I sometimes imagine a white guy going to China and then getting mad when the locals ask him where he is from. Off course the Chinese are smart enough to not tolerate that sort of crap from their guests.

And, luckily, the 2013 Miss Manners WaPo column (an elderly black woman wrote to her asking how to get people to stop using her first name without her permission) that I provided in that thread - AND the comments - are still accessible.

Some of the top-rated comments:

saturdayschild
7/4/2013
"I am white and not from the South, but spent several years there as a teenager. Even at that age, it grated on me that all whites (of whatever age) called African Americans (of whatever age) by their first names, but African Americans called whites by their titles. It had such an effect on me that I now consciously call anyone of color I meet by their title and last name unless they indicate they want me to do otherwise (or they are a lot younger than I am). I can't control what other people do, but maybe I can inject a bit more respect into my own interactions."

(responses to that one)

BobbieTheVoiceof Reason
7/4/2013
"I really don't care to be called Mrs. or Ms. Lastname. I like to be called by my first name. I ESPECIALLY don't like to be called Miss Firstname. That really sounds subservient to me.
I think it is absurd for them to call me 'Mrs. Lastname' at the doctor's office, if they are going to be seeing me naked in 5 minutes!"

A Rose By Any Other Name
7/4/2013
"I prefer for them to call me Mrs. Lastname, as I expect to call them Dr. Practitioner (and I imagine they expect me to, too!)."

JennyJenkins
7/4/2013
"Yes, that's what I said to my doctor: you can call me by my first name as long as I can do the same when I call you. I'm old enough to want to be called by Mrs. Jenkins and I want to be called Mrs. Jenkins. I never liked this modern familiarity and never will. My kids, on the other hand, are ok with calling everyone by their first name."

TreeLady
7/4/2013
"Dear Bobbie,
"Each person should be addressed as he or she prefers, but we need a universal standard for a starting point. As it is easier to offer people the option of more informality than it is to ask for the more formal, more respectful form, the convention is to start with the title and move to first names upon invitation."

yahilda1962
7/5/2013
"That health professionals are going to see patients naked is all the more reason to keep appropriate professional boundaries in place by addressing them respectfully."

magwitch
7/5/2013
"...And it's not all about being black. I'm white and I resent it when people direct their small children to call me by my first name."

I have a name that, while not long, is hard to guess how to say or spell it. It has been awkward for people all my life but that is just the way it is and I don't care. On the plus side, my hotel reservation never gets mixed up with someone else.
Counter to lenona, I don't think it is rude. Let's say I ask and they are Italian "Oh, I hope I can go to Rome some day" would be my reply--that is neither personal nor offensive. If Polish: "we have a polish grocery just down the street" and so on.

While there's no need to get one's blood pressure up by getting offended, per se, that doesn't mean that it's polite - even for children - to ask personal questions. Or to be overly familiar in general.
_____________________________________

I.e., there's no reason for the other person to rant and rave - but if you ask too-personal questions of someone, you can't blame that person for LOOKING irritated, at the least.

When people meet each other they are generally looking for common ground. Hell, I've had Americans reply with, "Oh my great great great Grandfather was Swiss, from WhateverSmallTown". They are trying to find a way to connect.

I agree with Lenora about familiarity, though. While of course small children will blurt stuff out, it was a bit jarring to go to the bank in Boston and be called Nicole by the greeter after he looked at my bank card. Here I'm Madame. I felt demoted.

NicoleK, yes, well, good intentions aren't good enough, as every child has to learn. Or, "the message sent may not be the message received."

In other words, you may think you're just trying to be friendly, but certain questions may feel, to the listener, like anything but.

It's not that hard to imagine a white person living in a mostly black neighborhood and feeling marginalized every time a black STRANGER asks "where are you from?"

So, a naturalized American citizen with a distinct accent is going to feel the same way.

While the majority today (in the U.S.) may or may not feel that way, it's arrogant to assume that you can do as you please without irritating people, at the least.

Btw, check out a short book I found recently - Foreign to Familiar: A Guide to Understanding Hot- and Cold-Climate Cultures, by Sarah A. Lanier (2000). I'd read Roger Axtell's books on travel already, but I don't remember his saying what Lanier spells out - that in many cultures, not only would it be rude to say "no" directly when someone makes a request; one actually has to say "yes" first - and the other person understands that the "yes" is not to be taken literally. Trouble is, too many European tourists don't understand that, which leads to many sad situations. In the same vein, if a party host offers you, say, coffee, it's too forward to accept it right away; you're supposed to refuse three times or so before accepting. (There's a different ritual for when you really don't want the coffee.)

"It's not that hard to imagine a white person living in a mostly black neighborhood and feeling marginalized every time a black STRANGER asks "where are you from?"" ~Lenona

And that encapsulates the problem in whole. Imagine. No need to find actual people or real evidence. Just pretend and make believe so that all your evil impulses are justified.

If you mean evidence that a LOT of nations find Americans to be far too pushy and familiar, look no further than Roger Axtell's travel books (author of Dos and Taboos Around the World), as I mentioned. Plus Miss Manners. She certainly gets enough letters from real people.

As I said, we don't know whether the majority of people today want that much privacy, but cautious formality never hurts - and you can't assume that any older person doesn't want privacy or formality just because you don't.

Also, have we not all heard that the following subjects are not to be discussed in social settings, unless that's the entire purpose of the gathering? Namely, sex, politics, religion - and private finances. For starters. (Last I remember, one is not even supposed to ask who the other person VOTED for. Those private booths don't exist for nothing. Just because you may not care for those rules doesn't make it polite to break them.)

Of course, that doesn't mean that younger generations have any understanding of why such rules exist.

I remember years ago, walking a dog and stopping to chat with a group of middle-schoolers and their teacher - I think it was a Catholic school. Anyway, one of the kids asked what I thought of George W. Bush. I said: "don't you think that's rather personal?" (No response.)

Anyone old enough to ask political questions is old enough to know better.

Btw, here's what MonicaP said, here, in 2013:

"Miss Manners is right. There's too much danger in discussing politics in social settings because people often can't be civil about it, even when they believe they ARE being civil about it. And it ends up being a game of trying to change each other's minds, which is a terrible game to play with people who don't want to play.

"Besides, we all have this fantasy that we have the most well-reasoned argument available, and if we just explained our position to the rest of the world, everyone but the most stupid and broken among us would see the truth for what it is.

"We're all morons."

In the same vein, I have no way of knowing whether most young people today think that having to write thank-you notes, whether on paper or online, is stupid and unfair (many have never received one).

But even if most of them DO feel that way, they shouldn't be surprised when they eventually stop getting birthday presents or favors from older relatives - or even from their peers. Or when they don't get the job after what they thought was a terrific interview.

Heh, the refusal thing can be pretty funny. Early in my marriage I was out with my in-laws. I'm a vegetarian, and options can be limited in Swiss mountain village restaurants. They were treating.

So I ordered a tomato soup and fries, which I had had the day before. I love tomato soup and fries. There was a fancy curry option on the menu, but I wasn't sure how great rural Swiss chefs would be at preparing curry. However I knew they WERE great at making tomato soup. And fries.

My in-laws INSISTED that I order the curry. I demurred, saying I preferred tomato soup and fries. But they insisted and told the waitress to bring me curry. They thought I was being polite by ordering the less expensive thing. I wasn't! I just wanted tomato soup. And fries!

These things happen. Cultural differences are real. But I will say it can also work the other way... in some cultures it is rude not to ask intimate details of each others' lives.

The reality is, though, if you seem like an outsider people will be curious and that's what they do, they ask. I get it a fair amount. If I got offended every time it happened I'd be a very sad lady. There are so many things to be offended about where people actually mean to be offensive, I'm not going to get upset when they don't.

Back in the early 1990s or earlier, at Christmas, I made a gingerbread house for my younger cousins, one Christmas.

Believe me, I didn't bother getting offended when I didn't get so much as a phone call to say thank you.

I simply stopped giving them anything.

They never asked why. (I suspect a lot of kids wouldn't care even if their grandparents stopped giving them presents, because they already get too many from their own parents.)

But it's still no excuse for anyone who's old enough to say thank you on the phone to refuse to do so when the parents hand them the phone. Or, the parent can write a letter as dictated by the child, if necessary.

Many little kids (and adults) also can't imagine what's rude about pointing, but again, they have to learn to gesture in other ways - or how to tell people in which direction to look.

Also, too many Americans seem to think that when children refuse to practice good manners (and self-restraint), the solution is for adults to start copying the kids' bad manners - so that parents will have one less job to do! Blech.

Curiosity is fine. Pushiness and nosiness is not. The way not to violate other people's boundaries is to let THEM set the pace. What's wrong with that?

Besides, kids need to learn there ARE ways to learn what you want to know; you're just not entitled to instant-information gratification, that's all. Just as you're not entitled to an instant friendship or an instant spouse. Even in the U.S.

Here's a very amusing and cerebral example of how just being willing to do a little brain work can help you get the information you want, without coming off as being pushy or nosy. (I trust we all understand why the main character doesn't just ask the questions to begin with.) I found it in a book of Jewish folklore.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Constructivism_and_the_New_Social_Studie/_-RoDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22girls+in+marmaresch%22&pg=PA71&printsec=frontcover