What's Wrong With Knocking Off Somebody Else's Design?
Ask handbag designer Kathrine Baumann. Glen Beres interviewed her on the topic for Idex Magazine:
“Any time someone buys something that’s not authentic, they are damaging the original creator’s business and future,” Baumann said. “The financial toll on companies and their employees can be devastating. When you invest thousands of dollars into researching and developing a piece, and counterfeiters come along with low-cost imitations a few weeks later, you never recoup your original investment. It literally takes food off the table for your employees and compromises the security of their families. Some legitimate designers have been forced to lay off employees or file for bankruptcy because they’ve been victims of counterfeiting.”Baumann’s campaign against infringers started after a collector came up to her during a trunk show at Henri Bendel in New York City to report seeing numerous knockoffs of her designs in local stores near Bendel’s Fifth Avenue location.
At first, Baumann didn’t believe it. Because her designs were handmade originals that were copyrighted, she thought she was protected. But the collector insisted, so a curious Baumann set out with her sister-in-law in tow to visit some of the stores in question. What she found completely horrified her.
“At first I felt devastated; I had never encountered anything like this in my life,” she recalled. “But then I got angry and decided to fight back.”
Designers and manufacturers need to be even more aggressive and vigilant in protecting their original designs than in the past, Baumann learned, because infringers have become more brazen and more technologically proficient in knocking them off. For instance, counterfeiters can snap a photo of a product at a trade show, upload and transmit the image to their overseas factory, and have it appear in a catalog before the original even makes it into stores. The Internet is another vehicle that has helped counterfeiters because it’s fast, cheap and easy to use. Baumann noted that counterfeiters can log onto a designer’s site, download images of the designer’s product, e-mail those images directly to their own factory, and have the design copied and on the street in a matter of weeks.
Isn't this analogous to video pirating? Stealing is stealing, after all. I've no passion for fashion, but I do value creativity greatly, which is why I don't participate in borderline-legal song downloading from the internet. If I like a song, I'll go to Borders, listen to the CD at a listening station, and if I like it, I buy it. Why? Because if I want to continue to hear good music, I have to support the artists that I enjoy. Unless I want your favorite singer bussing tables at Applebee's instead of performing, I had better actually spend the money to support those I believe in. Why don't people think things through like this? Perhaps our society is too focused on instant gratification to care about the long term ramifications of their actions.
Goddyss at April 6, 2005 10:31 AM
>When you invest thousands of dollars in researching and developing a piece
Thousands of dollars in research for a purse? She should have called me instead of Stephen Hawkings. I'd have told her what a purse looks like for a stick of gum (it's made of material; it has pockets, zippers, and a strap). This woman's every bit as silly as Langdon. Well, maybe not that silly, but if she says she spends thousands of dollars researching a goddamned purse, that makes her a hyperbole Queen or a fool, in my book.
> I have to support the artists that I enjoy
Make sure that you see them in concert, since the overwhelming majority of artists literally make pennies on each CD. If we are complaining about people not profiting off their own work, why don't we look at how a quasi-cartel colludes to screw an artist out of $15.79 on a $15.99 CD? Seems to be a much more direct 'theft' or instance of 'profiting on others' ideas' than this amorphous design-theft stuff that doesn't delineate when something is inspired by or ripped off.
I'm sorry Ms. Baumann doesn't like it when other people's purses look like hers. I'm sure Thom Yorke of Radiohead doesn't like hearing Coldplay songs on the radio, but that doesn't mean he can have them arrested or appropriate the Coldplay guy's hot wife.
Incidentally, I was at Borders music yesterday. That listening catalogue is extensive, extensive, extensive. They even had a full Samhain collection. I think that will do more to prevent file piracy than all the lawsuits on the planet. I know I will never again have to download three songs on an album to see whether I want to buy it. Saves me the twin nuisances of spyware and having to delete those songs before any lawyers notice that I'm illegally giving an album an audition. And it saves me the nuisance of buying a CD blind, so to speak.
Little ted at April 6, 2005 11:34 AM
I go to see live music all the time - I write for a local music zine and one of the perks is getting to hear great new bands. The downside is that I sometimes am subjected to ear torture poorly masquerading as the hottest *new thing*. Somehow I feel that the trade off is worth it.
The artists don't make as much off of concert sales as you would expect, though, Ted. From what the artists tell me, their primary source of income is merchandise (T-Shirts, etc.), but unfortunately, after paying $50 for a concert ticket, I can nary afford $45 for the baby doll t-shirt that I want. I'm lucky to get a keychain for $8.
As far as the ratio of artist: record companies as it relates to CD proceeds, Stuart Smith (late of Sweet, now with Heaven & Earth) is an artist that just started his own record company (Black Star Records). I interviewed him about it. Said Smith, “We had a problem with the discrepancy between what the record labels were making and what the actual artist was making. Although now, seeing all the time, effort, and money it takes to run a record label I am beginning to understand.” Interesting perspective, horse's mouth, as it were. Something to consider.
Goddyss at April 6, 2005 12:05 PM
I wasn't criticizing you for not going to concerts, and I'm glad you do, I just meant that the nonspecific you--the 'you' in terms of whomever wants to support an artist that that person likes--is better accomplishing artist support by going to a concert, though the friends I have playing the local club circuit really just make tomorrow's beer money at last night's show.
As to the costs of operating a label, I'm sure Smith has start-up costs that, say, Sony doesn't. And even with his label, he needs to go through a distributer, like Sony, which is (I'll bet) where the rest of that expense comes from.
Little ted at April 6, 2005 12:54 PM
Well, I'm pretty sure the knock-off designers aren't breaking any laws in this country, as long as they're not using anyone else's trademarks. Thus, a YSL or Gucci bag can't have a real YSL or Gucci logo on it (which is why those companies incorporate their logos into their designs.
So if you really feel this passionately about this, start writing your congresspeople. And start thinking about how you draw the line about how similar two bags can be before there's an infringement.
Frank at April 6, 2005 2:17 PM
Frank, because something's legal doesn't mean it's moral.
Amy Alkon at April 6, 2005 2:28 PM
Agreed. In *most* states here in America, it's legal to fire people just because they are gay, and for no other reason. I have friends that have lost their jobs when they came out of the closet in Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana.
Legal to fire them? Yes. Moral? Of course not.
Goddyss at April 6, 2005 5:35 PM
VERY good point.
Amy Alkon at April 6, 2005 6:41 PM
Clothing can NOT BE COPYRIGHTED, TRADEMARKED or PATENTED. That's the LAW! Baumann can NOT copyright her designs.
Baumann's so called "Original" purse called "Highlander" looks just like the famous Burberry bags. That is Burberry's signature pattern. Check it at http://www.kbaumann.com/kbweb_2000/products/origin_hm/origin1.html.
Paying $1000's is amazing considering designers only shetch and pick fabrics for their products. Prototypes are inexpensive. Years ago there was a lips purse available that looks just like Baumann's.
As I said some time ago in our email correspondence, I have contacted ALL the designers we replicate and NO ONE has asked for payment. Many said I was the first person that ever asked.
You should be spending your efforts on ABS (Alan B Schwartz) who owns a very large company in LA that replicates all the runway and Hollywood awards gowns. I suspect you are afraid to go after the "Big Guys". Since he is Jewish, I think he would be very insulted if you called him a NAZI or associated him with Nazi's as you did our company.
Contact Bloomingdale's, Saks, Neiman's, etc who sell replica clothing. They make more money in a day off their replicas than I will see in a year. Do you really need to go after a small company in the midwest?
We have yet to make an exact replica of any designer as clients choose different fabrics, buttons, linings, etc. That is the beauty of custom work. A pattern is made for each client to their exact size. They choose fabrics from many swatches.
Go after the big guys since your diatribe about us will not cause anyone to go bankrupt, loose jobs or go without food. The big companies are making the money. I doubt Chanel and the other designers will go bankrupt because of Sew Beautiful By Natasha and Jane (www.sew-beautiful.us). As any good reporter knows "follow the money". I DARE YOU TO COMMENT ABOUT THE BIG GUYS. Come on Amy ...I dare you.
Jane Langdon at April 6, 2005 7:24 PM
I'll let the next person go after Alan Schwartz -- I have to work on my case against the guy who did the hit-and-run on my car.
Besides, I don't think Alan Schwartz is wacko enough to email me eight times a day and put up a site about me, and I'd miss all this fun I've been having. Oh yeah, and I've heard from a number of bloggers that you've been searching out where I've posted and posting about me (utterly unrelated to the topics at hand!)...I do love the attention, and I'm amused that you are spending your days consumed by "getting me" instead of profiting by copying the work of others (oh, except when you stole my copyrighted masthead photos and other photos and put them up on your site without permission).
Was Carmela Sutera among those designers that blew you a big wet kiss for knocking off her work? They were pretty horrified to learn that you'd copied a photo from their current collections onto your site so you could sell knockoffs of their work. I notice Angel Sanchez' dress (apparently copied off their site) is gone from your site as well. And you've cut the heads off a lot of those models...and why would you have to do that, since you say you paid for and got rights for EVERYTHING on your site.
How many times did you email me yesterday, eight? Ten? Again, I do love the attention, but wouldn't your time might be much better spent reading a book about ethics?
Amy Alkon at April 6, 2005 7:38 PM
The site was revised to showcase the dresses. I update it often.
I do not email you 10 times a day. Besides, why do you respond?
Well this is my LaSt post Amy. My laywer said you will be getting a letter from him soon about what you say is not LIBEL!
Jane Langdon at April 6, 2005 8:59 PM
Jane, your "lawyer" (the person who told you it was cool to put up Halle Berry's face on your site, perhaps?!) can send me reams of letters; it's not going to turn opinion into libel.
Amy Alkon at April 7, 2005 1:27 AM
Jane, you wrote that was your "LaSt post." But I just looked at my MT comments log and you posted two more right after it.
Whoopsy!
You sure do give me some good laughs. Keep up the entertainment.
HERE'S THIS ONE (THE OTHERS ARE BELOW:
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Amy Alkon at April 7, 2005 1:33 AM