Sounds like that court is in need of some thorough castigation!

Or at least a swift boot off the bench. It's sad enough when people want their religiosity to take precidence over rule of law...but in court? Ack.

From my reading since 9/11, and especially, recently, I've discovered something -- this is the mission of Muslims: to creep Sharia law into our societies in many little ways until it's just status quo. The Muslims are imperialists -- which is a polite way of saying they want to take over and either convert or kill us infidels or at least tax the crap out of us and make us third-class citizens. Don't take it from me -- read the Koran (translated by reliable sources), and listen to the speaches of preachers who aren't lying to the media in the name of taquiyya.

Yeah, it's not happy stuff, is it? Comparative religion is something of a hobby of mine. Always interesting to compare what their books say, what they actively practice, and what they CLAIM to practice. Frequently some or all contrast in interesting ways. Applies to most religions.

I don't really don't find any of their methods and motivations encouraging, since I'm not a Muslim. Probably how some of the native americans felt when their children were forced into schools that forbade them to speak Navajo, under threat of corporal punishment. Or when the crusaders were on their way to the "holy land" with the slogan "kill them all, God will know his own."

Religion is a pretty crappy maker of policy, isn't it?

I love that quote.

Muslims are like any off us ... they don´t choose their religion or what they have to do they only are manipulate for the olders.. it´s a shame but we can´t do anything,,,,

I agree Amy.

Many times in staying in various parts of Egypt, I was an invited guest of the various village clerics. When you in an area where the population is about 90 to 98% illiterate... the clerics need some intellectual contact and being the token westerner in the area made me quite popular among the few educated locals.

After so many dinner conversations you begin to notice little things about their psychological make-up. You can figure out which ones are on Mubarak's payroll. The decent and honest religious leaders who are truly concern about the villages' welfare. Then you get the members who have sympathies to the Islamic Brotherhood, Egypt's Islamic Jihad or any popular form of aggressive Islamic fundamentalism.

Those particular conversations were far more interesting and quite alarming. All of them were very polite and accommodating. Conversations would begin after dinner and evening tea was served. They ranged to personal questions about me and my family. What part of the US I came from. Religious questions. How can an American, a non Muslim speak Arabic so well? Are you a member of the CIA? Spying for Cairo? Questions about Muslims in the states. The women of the USA. Muslim women in the USA and so on. There was one particular cleric who would discuss the eventual Islamic takeover of the USA. There will be a Muslim in the White House to the details of the horses used during the victory parade down Pennsylvania Avenue. Of course his conversations were littered with historical and religious metaphors from Islam's past conquests. Now this would not happen in 4 years or in 50 years, but in 150 to 300 years in the future.

I would treat these conversations as their little dream worlds or the Muslim's ultimate wet dreams. Also, they were testing me based on my initial reactions to the conversations. To see what kind of outsider I was to them. A threat or a useful fool?

Now this combination of openness and arrogance by the clerics can be easily exploited. It stems from living in an unchallenged comfort zone of authority within the entire community of believers. Ideas and belief systems that are applicable in an ever changing world need to be challenged and re-examined on a constant basis. Not so, within the very powerful and entrenched authority of the clerics. This arrogance of power and naiveté in matters of the non Muslim world creates a lot of problems within the Middle East. It comes out in cycles of violence. Blaming everything on the undue influence of non Muslim values. Any minor thing we in the West take from granted can be interpreted as non Muslim values. For example, the invention of the modern toilet can be seen as a corrupt influence on a truly devout Muslim. Why? It is a piece of propaganda on the glories of the West. What was good for the Prophet Mohammed is good enough for a believer in the 21st Century kind of mentality.

Now how can the multiculturalists in the West equate this kind of madness an even footing to modernity? Then blame the problems caused by this particular religious madness on the ‘ignorance’ of the native Western populations.

Joe you always have the most interesting comments to say.

I'm always curious about Muslim men and Western women. They call them whores and such, but I always detect a keen interest/obsession to marry one. So they love our corrupting evil whores who sacrificed their virginity in a blood pagan ritual to the Great Satan. Am I right or what? I never detect this same feeling of Muslim women for Western men. I think Muslim women are geniune when they say they want to marry only Muslim men. (They might have some curiosity but not on the same scale as Muslim men).

It's odd that this isn't simple. It's fine for Western nations to be accepting of immigrants; but immigrants have a duty to live by the rules of that culture. Period.

You're a Muslim, fine. Don't have drinks, don't have a dog - but you can't ban booze or dogs. You're a Hindu - no burgers for you, but we still get to eat cows. Etc., etc. You and your kids have the duty to learn the language of your new country, and to live peaceably beside your neighbors of different creeds. If not, get the hell out. The awful situations in your native lands brought you here, and you want to remake our societies in that image? No.

The outrage at that judge in Germany is well deserved and I look forward to reading something about disciplinary action taken towards her.

I've noticed the common factor in a lot of religions is that the women take the spiritual aspects far more seriously than the men do. For the men, it's mostly about power. They certainly don't want women in any positions of authority in the ones that spring to mind (Catholic, Muslim, Mormon). There is no reason for this if we are really all about more than our physical bodies.

Chris, don't forget the Bible Belt. I grew up Southern Baptist (I'm from Ohio, apparently some pastors migrate north from Kentucky). The pastor I heard from birth made it clear it was all about power and control. Everything he (personally) thought was bad was "the work of saaa-tan" and would cause you to suffer "hhhellllfiah!" You play D&D? Hell. You listen to Rock music? Hell. You drink beer? Hell. My parents soaked ALL of this up (and I heard about it frequently, because I played D&D, wasn't old enough for beer) without question until he had a sermon about the new Christian Rock. Didn't help that the pastor named my older brother specifically in the sermon (that's what he listened to). Their ability to judge ANY of this critically didn't happen until then. SO they went to another church with the same message minus that one. Later that pastor was busted for cheating on his wife...and was revealed as an alcoholic. Oh, and no woman had any position of authority...they're s'posed to stay at home and fix yer dinner don'cha know?

The only real benefits of being exposed to all of that was it caused me to examine all faiths when his didn't make any damn sense, and it helped me get a part as the appalachian pastor in Dark of the Moon. That might be about it.

Jamie, I'm sure most religions are like that, including the Baptists. I just have a bit of familiarity with the 3 I mentioned.

You touched on another commonality, that there are a lot of hypocrites in these same religions, and generally speaking, it is the men. Now, if they're not walking the talk, it's even more obvious that the power is what they are interested in.

Power-seeking is a fairly common motivator among men regardless. That whole evolutionary drive for power and success so you can be proven a good provider and whatnot. And when you have someone that wants to have his cake and eat it too...and his cake happens to be control through the claim of superior morality/spirituality...you've got yourself a hypocrite. And the ones that tend to browbeat others the most about morality are the most guilty.

Man...my lunch must have really made me a cranky geek today. :p

'And the ones that tend to browbeat others the most about morality are the most guilty.'

That has been a great red flag for me in my experience. As soon as someone starts judging me about anything, I'm immediately suspicious about what they've been up to.

Thanks, Purple.

My friends and family are getting sick of my stories. Hell, I haven't told them my adventures in bathing in the Nile River or the 2 fatwas that were issued against me by some local clerics for defying the will of Allah (doing minor immunology research on the West Nile virus) in a very under developed region of southern Egypt. The fatwas were rescinded by clerics of higher standing in Cairo and various government officials. The influential clerics used the line of reasoning that my basic research showed prime examples of being merciful towards innocent people and it was a blessing of Allah. It sounds more poetic in Arabic.

FYI for everyone...it is very easy to have a fatwa issued against you in the Middle East. I believe the religious cleric of A.Q. has issued a fatwa on every American and Westerner who hasn't converted to Islam yet.

I recommend Jon Safran's video on how easy it is in getting a fatwa on one of his friends and former work colleague:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrEI5q1Iiic

Safron's TV show in Australia is hilarious when he takes on various religions. He went door to door on a Saturday morning in Salt Lake City to preach evolution to Mormons and documented their reactions. Another great video of him trying to join the Los Angeles chapter of the KKK. Safron is a former Hasidic Jew turned atheist and wanted to know if that would still disqualify him to join the Invisible Empire.

I meant Safron, not Safron. Temporary brain lock.

Brain lock again... Safran.

Joe why did choose to learn Arabic and travel the Middle East? Its very fascinating. I've always loved Middle Eastern history but now its a shit hole. Sucks, they had potential.

Haha for the KKK bit. They were driving around in my old neighborhood. Classic. It's kind of weird that they were driving in my old streets. I just remember that Mormons where like the biggest annoyance in the world to me. I couldnt care less for the KKK (it never registered to me that they could actually live next to me), it was the Mormons who bugged the shit out of me. Who the fuck can believe that religion? I can understand shit thats been around for hundreds of years, but Mormonism? I had to put up with Jehovahs Witnesses as a kid, Mormons as a teen, and Evangelicals as an adult. My father didnt believe in God but he believed in aliens, jesus christ wtf is up with people. There was nothing worse than hearing his fucking alien abduction stories followed by some girl trying to convert me into being Mormon. And I always hate seeing like really devout Christian women with the super long hair and the long skirts. Put some makeup on please, its not Satanic. This is California, there is a Sephora store at every corner. Take care of your split ends if you're gonna have long hair. It's my only peet peeve regarding appearance. Enough with this rant, back to work.

For the last couple of days, this story made the headlines in almost every paper and magazine over here in Germany. If we don't solve this problem of false tolerance now, I'm afraid we never will. It's a time bomb. The only reason for hope: The negative public reaction to the court's decision was very unequivocal.

Thanks for the Napier quote, Amy. Haven't read that one in a very long time.

We had Mormons move into our neighbourhood a few years ago. They took over an old used car showroom and turned it into their church. They shipped up a bunch of wholesome looking young men from Utah who had obviously never left home before, to do missionary work in our backward city (Toronto). They travel in packs of 2 on buses and single out a likely victim on every trip. They also keep trespassing in my apartment building and knocking on doors.

They are so clueless and earnest, I find them hilarious.

The funniest thing is, they all wear nametags with 'Elder ...', and these guys are all 18 or something, so I don't know who exactly they are 'elder' than. The few women I've seen are not considered elders, and they wear long skirts and no makeup (gotta hide all that sexuality!).

If I thought I could get into an intelligent conversation with any of them, my only question would be 'what's in it for me?'. I think what motivates some women to join these cults is the lure of stable men that want to have babies.

I think they're probably born into it, and never taught to think, and never exposed to any books or reading material that would encourage them to do it. My parents raised me to be a certain kind of girl -- to stay in Michigan, marry a nice accountant, and attend Temple Beth El -- but, oops, I read all these books as a child (basically all I did besides ride my bike), and it opened me up and set me on the path I'm on today: godless, logical, highly investigative, and all the rest.

> the lure of stable men that
> want to have babies.

I like that line more than Jamie's thoughts about men wanting to achieve so they can be good providers... I think masculine motives are not so mutual in their payoff. Maybe Mormon women are clearer about their reproductive enthusiasm, and not so eager to chase the bad boys before settling down with good fathers for their kids. But I've heard that women in Utah get more depressed at midlife when the nest goes empty than other women do.

"Maybe Mormon women are clearer about their reproductive enthusiasm, and not so eager to chase the bad boys before settling down with good fathers for their kids."

Which is just fine with me, as it only clears the way for more good times with the bad boys. Not that those chubby Mormon bitches are any competition.

Lena, chubby women are only good for two things: Sex and conversation.

Not that those chubby Mormon bitches are any competition.

You're probably not a NCAA basketball fan... the cheerleaders from the Mormon schools like BYU are smoking hot.

Lena, are there Mormon bad boys? If so, are they easy? Or are the wholesome ones more fun to corrupt? (I've had much more fun corrupting the sweet ones!)

"Or are the wholesome ones more fun to corrupt?"

Chrissy,

If you were a Brit, you'd probably have run across the ultimate famous tabloid story about the corruption of a very wholesome one! I still have dim childhood memories of the endless headlines and rude details (I got the bit below by googling "UK mormon kidnap sex scandal" - it popped up like a greased pig!)

"...A young Mormon missionary told today how an ex-beauty queen kidnapped him and then made love to him while he was chained to a bed in a lonely cottage....."

I swear, it wasn't me! Kind of inspiring though... (remember kids, non-consensual sex is wrong, mkay)

I've got a problem with false equivalences. There are other religions where the face they put on for outsiders is nothing like a true measure of what adherents experience. Islam is hardly unique in that. Nor is it a reason to restart the Crusades : those didn't work before and won't now.
Freedom is something that can only be protected by those aware and alert to what is happening in the world. You don't get that sitting in front of the Boob Tube watching Fox news.
There have been Muslims on this continent for centuries. Hyperventilating about the risk they pose loses you the best people you might ever find to understand what is happening elsewhere.

Purple,

Sorry for delayed response. What interested me in the Middle East is kind of difficult to explain. It is one part environment and the other part is a bit of a mystery to me.

I was raised in area of the USA that has a high concentration of Arab-Americans. The vast majority are not Muslims, but Arab Christians. My parents worked for a Catholic charity in association with American University-Beirut Campus that helped Lebanese Christians emigrate to the USA. There were many instances of a Lebanese family staying our home for months. So I started picking up the Lebanese accented Arabic and cooking tips.

There were other factors too. I was influenced by a biography on Captain Richard F. Burton's travels to the Middle East and his travel books, when I was around 11 years old. Especially the book "Personal Narrative of a Pilgrimage to El-Medinah and Meccah", when Burton disguised himself as a Pathan (a modern Pashtun) and went on the Hajj/Hadj to Mecca and Medina as one of the few nonbelievers and survived the ordeal.

By the way, I recommend anyone to read Burton's Personal Narrative. It is available free online in pdf format. He goes into great detail on how he prepared himself to be a convincing Muslim. Even to the point of having himself circumcised at the age of 28. Also his commentaries on a certain Islamic sect are quite relevant for our modern situation.

The final reason I became interested in the Middle East would be my personal psychology or character. Most of my friends and family consider me an adrenaline junkie. I always had this need to be on the edge or in area where your instincts and quick thinking abilities are a necessity. Perhaps it is a counter balance from the controlled environment of my regular day job. One does develop an appreciation every minor convenience when you live in an environment where you are constantly challenged everyday. You do not seize the day, but devour it.

I can summarize 3 basic overall survival techniques in the Middle East:

1. Know the language and as many dialects as possible.
2. Be on your guard and keep moving.
3. Stay hydrated.

On specific incidents, I would elaborate further on the 3 techniques from bathing in the Nile River to living in a tree for 48 hours while a section of the Nile begins to flood and you are stuck in the middle. To being placed in ’protective custody’ by certain authorities. In a future post, I may tell a story on how the old childhood lesson of “Look both ways before crossing the street” saved my life in a bad neighborhood in Cairo. No, it doesn’t involve me getting hit by a car.

"chubby women are only good for two things: Sex and conversation."

Do you like the way they jiggle while you pound?

Joe,

Your explanations never dissapoint.

Tee hee. Lena likes to pound!