Welcome To Your Nightmare
Many men must have some fear that they could someday be accused of a crime they didn't commit; namely, rape.
It happened this past week to a Baltimore construction worker hired on a renovation project at a local middle school. When an 11-year-old girl accused him, and when charges against him turned out to be false, this led...no, not to charges against her, but..."raise(d) awareness" about allowing other construction workers to work around the schoolchildren!
Gina Davis writes for the Baltimore Sun:
(Schools spokeswoman Kara) Calder said she did not know whether the system would begin requiring background checks of contract workers.She stressed that while police had concluded that nothing had happened to the girl, the school had made changes in response to safety concerns.
Children were instructed to travel in pairs, more teachers were in the hallways between classes and more police were stationed at the school.
Also, construction was curtailed the day after the girl's accusations were made to give the general contractor, James Ancel Inc., time to install a separate entrance to the work zone by replacing a window with a door, Calder said. Any worker who doesn't use that entrance during school hours will be barred from the project, Principal Allen H. Zink said earlier this week.
Calder said she believed the entrance was installed Thursday and workers had returned to the 1,500-student school yesterday.
A little background from Davis on the false accusation:
About 2:30 p.m. Wednesday, the girl reported to the principal's office that a man had followed her into the restroom between classes and sexually assaulted her, police said. The girl said she fought off the man, ran out of the restroom and reported the attack to a county police officer stationed at the school, police said.Police initially incorrectly said yesterday that the girl had admitted to lying, but soon after said she hadn't made such a confession. (Amy: There's a poorly written sentence.) Though relieved to hear the girl hadn't been harmed, parents said the incident helped raise awareness about the potential dangers posed by contractors working in the buildings during the school day.
Some said school officials should consider requiring background checks and fingerprinting of contractors and their employees, as they do of teachers and other school workers. They also said construction workers should be further restricted from areas where children might be.
...lest another kid falsely accuse another construction worker of rape? Come on. Most construction workers are men, but most men are not rapists. Anybody working at a school should be subject to some sort of vetting, but clearly, the background that needs checking in this case is that of the kid's parents -- how they managed to raise a child who is either so sick or so sold on propaganda against men that she trotted off to ruin a guy's life for what, attention?
I haven't considered what should be done with juvenile false accusers, but I'm of the mind that any adult or near adult who can be proved, beyond a reasonable doubt, to be making a false rape accusation, should be sentenced to the punishment the falsely accused would have gotten, had the charge stuck.
via Glenn Sacks
It's the construction workers who should travel in pairs.
Norman at January 15, 2008 12:41 AM
I thinking how the main contractor will use this to suck money out of the school.
"Okay we can provide with 20 labours with no security check for 20.00 an hour. Or we can get you five contractors with checks for 100.00 an hour. But remember that the with the five labours it will take 2 years to finish the work.
Also lets say each construction worker gets a check what will limit him from working on the building. A drunk driving conviction. Lets say this a hard drinking one that got drunk and hit his girl friend. (still bad). In the end they will end up with less workers and more costs in the future. The next time the school board puts out a job. They will have to factor the costs.
And yes what should be done with the 11 year old. Expulsion, public apology to the workers, libel lawsuit.
John Paulson at January 15, 2008 1:38 AM
Didn't you know, all men are child abusers?
Reminds me of an experience: my boss's daughter's sports team was in desperate need of coaches. There were plenty of volunteers for the boys' team, but none for the girls' team.
She was a good kid, I liked the sport, so I volunteered. My application was looked upon with absolute horror: this MAN, living in a DIFFERENT town (you know, the one next door), wants to coach OUR GIRLS. Why? WHY? OH NO!
A really sad statement on the state of affairs...
bradley13 at January 15, 2008 2:57 AM
Amy thankyou for your attention to this issue. You may enjoy this story from Austrlia just last year.
Innocent boy's jail nightmare
gwallan at January 15, 2008 3:11 AM
"false rape accusation, should be sentenced to the punishment the falsely accused would have gotten"
Agreed! Although, I would extend that to apply to any crime. And double for prosecutors, police or paid expert witnesses who violate ethics.
Shawn at January 15, 2008 3:41 AM
Jebus gwallan, that's some story. But as some feminists have said in defending what happened to the Duke students, it shows we don't have to worry about false allegations, because in the justice prevailed. :(
jerry at January 15, 2008 4:51 AM
False rape accusation, should be sentenced to the punishment the
>falsely accused would have gotten
I agree with the sentiments, but it would be a really bad idea
in practice. In general, it's more important for innocent people
to not go to jail than for the guilty to be punished. So X lies
about being raped and then recants. The innocent party had a bad
time, but at least is finally cleared. Now suppose that X
understands that if she recants, she faces years in jail. How
likely is she to come clean and admit she made it up? You've
raised the stakes high enough that there's plenty of motivation
to not admit the charge was false, even if there's outside
evidence of that.
Ron at January 15, 2008 6:02 AM
"false rape accusation, should be sentenced to the punishment the falsely accused would have gotten" agreed but how does one show that the aligations are false? I really hope that the defendant being found not guilty falls far shy of these requirements.
Is there any reason given for the girl's false accusation?
vlad at January 15, 2008 6:09 AM
Also she is a juvenile. Even if she were convicted of false accusation (cold day in hell if there is a jury involved) the punishment would be less then a wrist slap. She needs to be punished and severely but the justice system won't do it.
I do have to defend the justice system on this one. The accusations were proven false.
vlad at January 15, 2008 6:21 AM
Horrible ordeal in Australia. No word on what's to be done to even attempt to compensate the kid and the family for what they went through.
How likely is she to come clean and admit she made it up?
I'm thinking false accusers are less likely to make it up at all if there are consequences if they get found out. At the moment, there are none; only for the victim of their false accusations.
And no, no reason was given for the girl's false accusation.
Amy Alkon at January 15, 2008 6:21 AM
How about preemptive castration?
Rationale: as male genitalia are widely considered to be inherently hostile and offensive in nature, it is not unreasonable to suggest that males should consider castration as a means of shielding themselves from false accusations of rape.
Problem solved!
Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg at January 15, 2008 6:46 AM
Hey! I enjoy male genitalia! And I understand many men do, too.
Amy Alkon at January 15, 2008 6:48 AM
Well said, ma'am.
Respectfully retract previous insane suggestion.
Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg at January 15, 2008 6:57 AM
This kind of thing is why so many men take preventative measures.
Jim Treacher at January 15, 2008 8:20 AM
@Amy
I've since written to Innocence Project WA in the hope they may be able to update me.
I'll report back here if there's anything to add.
@Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg
Not castration. Just learn to say no. And I'm not simply being trite. Saying no to a woman a few times can be very illuminating. It has a dual effect of establishing your own right to consent - a sadly undervalued commodity in our culture - and of alerting you to potentially abusive women.
Notably some DV literature boldly states that a man refusing his partner's demands for sex is being abusive. This is now enshrined in law in Mexico where the punishment for a man exercising "consent" is up to five years prison.
There's been much discussion about alcohol related rape laws which have been introduced in the UK and at least one state in Australia and soon others. In principle I agree with them. Nobody should take advantage of somebody who is basicly asleep. These laws have been made gender specific however. This is what has been missed in the discussion - by doing this the same action performed by a woman IS LEGAL. There is no remedy for the male who, by the law's "definition", is a rape victim.
Of course no woman would ever do this. I mean, what possible motivation would she have? What would she have to gain?
This is actually one of the ways women can, and do, rape men. And sometimes the motivation is more than just short term sexual gratification. Sometimes it extends to controlling aspects of the targets life, possibly for decades. Remember, these laws are gender specific and the advocacy for them is spreading.
So Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg and all other men. You should exercise your right to consent. You should do it often. Stand firm in the face of this "only one gender can rape" onslaught. You have a right to say no. If you don't there's a chance you may lose it.
gwallan at January 15, 2008 8:26 AM
"This kind of thing is why so many men take preventative measures."
---------
And not just with kids. I live in the "Sexual Politics Triangle of Death", otherwise known as the San Francisco Bay Area, and I made the mistake of attempting to help a woman pick up a sack of groceries she'd dropped.
About the only thing she didn't do was zap me with a stun gun and scream "Stranger danger!". I'll never do that again.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at January 15, 2008 8:35 AM
I don't think that false rape reportings are the epidemic that these men's right activists and antifeminists make it out to be. Not to mention that a very small percentage of rapes are reported, and even legitimate claims rarely result in conviction.
Unfortunately, unless there is a "deposit" left behind, and the victim is not too traumatized to think clearly and immediately go to the hospital for specimen collection (which very few doctors / nurses are even qualified to collect, resulting in unusable evidence) there is very little proof that a crime occurred. However, this is not the only crime that is one persons word against anothers (domestic violence, theft), even if that one person may be a police officer.
I feel that those who exaggerate the rate of false rape accusations (not convictions) and the radical feminists, who try to use rape as a political weapon saying your husband fucking you is a form of rape and way to keep women under their thumbs, are severely damaging to the actual VICTIMS and prohibit them from actively reporting rapes and criminals being put in jail.
As you said Amy, most men aren't rapist. I agree. But I'd like to add that most rape victims are women and most women aren't liars.
In fairness, I would go so far as to surmise that the fear a man has of being wrongly persecuted for rape is no greater than the fear a women has of being raped.
Further to the above incident, I believe the school did the best they could in the situation to protect both the children and the construction workers. If there is limited and adequately supervised interaction, it would be much more difficult for another false accusation to arise. It should have been done in the first place.
dena at January 15, 2008 8:43 AM
I don't think that false rape reportings are the epidemic that these men's right activists and antifeminists make it out to be.
Nor does it seem that the experience -- cognitive impairment and memory deficiency for going on five days -- that I had with Versed/midazolam is typical...but that doesn't mean it should be ignored.
False accusations are epidemic enough if you're one of the falsely accused. Look at the Duke lacrosse players. Do you think they feel better thanks to your contention that it doesn't happen too often? Does it bring back the time they lost, the damage to their academic careers, what it did to their families and peace of mind?
I think, Dena, you're trotting out a lot of stats that you haven't looked into that fully. Here's an example of that.
http://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2007/05/diddle_he_or_di.html
Oh, it was after I wrote that column that I was dropped from the C-ville paper. (Search their site with Alkon or Advice Goddess and you'll see the letters -- replete with false information that I'd already debunked -- attacking that column.) And I was right about Diana Russell's data, as is Neil Gilbert.
Is this why my column was dropped? I can't say that. But, my column was very popular in that paper, and they're now running some dull sex therapist who tells women to hold up a mirror and look at their vaginas instead. Amusingly, C-Ville readers are still clamoring to have my column back in the paper -- it's been out for quite some time and somebody has recently been posting signs on the paper's offices in the middle of the night. That person -- somebody I don't know and have never met -- sent me a photograph. Link to the photo is here.
Amy Alkon at January 15, 2008 8:56 AM
I lie somewhere in the middle on this one and I'll disclose I can't be unbiased about this one since my daughter was molested at three and it's caused problems ever since (for the last 22 years).
If it can absolutely be proven beyond a reasonable doubt (as is supposed to apply to all crimes) it is at the very least slander and should be punishable with whatever usually pertains to slander. I'm not sure about the prision sentences.
The problem is that we really don't want to reach a state where real victims are afraid to come forward either. As it is, there's a lot of deterrent to reporting a rape. Do we really want to get back to where we're putting rape victims on trial? Or worse, children who are molested. The nature of a trial already does this to some extent; I'd hesitate to make it any worse and, I would think, if the guy can show that it was done vindictively or a lie was told, he has a civil slander case though I'd admit he is then in the same position as a real rape or molestation victim -- having to be put through an ordeal to be believed. In the wrongly accused guy's case, looking like a big, bad meanie suing.
Snoop, wouldn't solve the problem. That's why I don't support it even when rape or molestation is proved. Not only is castration sick and fucked up in itself but wouldn't stop anything.
Donna at January 15, 2008 9:13 AM
Oh, yeah, and I almost forgot what I wanted to say in the first place -- the school is way overreacting and only exacerbating the problem. The kids aren't any safer and they are given a false sense of security. This pisses me off about sexual offenders lists. They not only encourage witch hunts but make people think they know where all the perverts are. Uh, no you don't. Those lists don't include the first time actor or those who haven't been caught. The need to teach your children to self-protect is not lessened one iota.
Donna at January 15, 2008 9:17 AM
Amy:
"I think, Dena, you're trotting out a lot of stats that you haven't looked into that fully."
I think I provided you some stats in that column you mentioned. However I made no mention of statistics in my above post. What I said was "I think" - that reduces it to nothing more than my opinion. Unfortunately with a large amount of rapes going unreported, and false rape reports being generally docomented (by including the knocked up teenager who claims she was raped by a stranger, with no one actually being accused) it's hard to draw a conclusion from this evidence.
"False accusations are epidemic enough if you're one of the falsely accused. Look at the Duke lacrosse players. Do you think they feel better thanks to your contention that it doesn't happen too often? Does it bring back the time they lost, the damage to their academic careers, what it did to their families and peace of mind?"
You don't think that exaggerating the rate of false accusations, giving predators a means of defense, is deferring justice for actual rape victims? Do you think they they feel better thanks to your contention that most men don't rape? Does it bring back their peace of mind??
I never said false accusers should be ignored. They should be punished - they are just as damaging to the real victims as they are to those accused. We just have to figure out a way to do so that won't deter actual victims from coming forward in fear that they won't be believed and will be penalized. They've suffered enough.
We can safely deduce that the number of actual rapes far outweighs the number of false reporst.
Even with your knowledge that "most men don't rape" it didn't prevent you from crossing the street when you saw a strange man outside in the street until you realized he was your neighbor (as you previously posted). Which is smart ... self preservation. I am scared of big strange men, I avoid places where I would have to be alone with them. Men, unfortunately, need to avoid places that they would be alone with small young girls. It's smart ... self preservation.
dena at January 15, 2008 9:29 AM
I do think their should be some kind of punishment for someone who maliciously accuses someone else of a a crime they did not commit. (Which this child obviously did. And I know of a crazy girl in college who did the same to my ex. I cannot put enough emphasis on the word CRAZY here.)
I don't think that any rape accusation that doesn't result in a conviction should result in a conviction for the accuser. If the accuser was confused about the identity of the rapist, unable to prove that a rape was committed etc and so forth I don't see why they should be punished for being wrong. I do think that people who make up stories should be punished however.
Also, I absolutely support rape laws that provide protections for anyone, regardless of gender, who has been assaulted against their will. The strange belief that men cannot be raped baffles me.
Shinobi at January 15, 2008 9:58 AM
This whole thing stems from the gender-feminist mantra that all men are rapists. And it's why I won't have anything to do with any of the children in my neighborhood.
When someone maliciously accuses someone of committing a crime that never occurred, that person ought to be subjected to the maximum penalty the accusation would have carried had it been legitimate.
Simply - intentionally accusing a man of raping you, when you have not been raped should destroy your life, not his. There are some states where merely being ACCUSED of a sexual offense will land you on the "sex-offender registry", which is, in essence, ending your life. Not to mention there are now vigilantes out there who take it upon themselves to harass and assault persons on such lists, regardless the reason for it.
Quite simply, a false rape accusation is exposing the victim to potential death.
brian at January 15, 2008 11:29 AM
The cultural milieu makes it easier than it should be to think of men as rapists. As a case in point, consider this mind-boggling statement from a recent essay in the Huffington Post by Erica Jong:
"So let's just remember our mothers--who bore us, protected us against our fathers and grandfathers and all the pink or brown men who wanted to rape us or kill us or starve us because we were girls."
The article is here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/erica-jong/whos-tired-of-pink_b_81087.html
Mike at January 15, 2008 12:27 PM
That's IT...
Where's that sharp knife?...
Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg at January 15, 2008 12:35 PM
How sick and twisted do you have to be to LIE and accuse someone of something so evil? I don't have a problem with them adding more security around the kids but this man deserves a public apology from this little shit. It's a double edged sword; she makes real victims look like liars and got an innocent person harrassed by the cops for NOTHING. I assume they'll say she's too young to get busted for perjury or filing a false police report or fraud, but I think they need to do something to punish this girl- detention is not gonna cut it! This lying little twerp casts future assault claims, especially in that district, under definite scrutiny.
And what the hell is wrong with the school? Public apology and compensation for lost wages for the victim is a good start. I think its important to take rape accusations very seriously, especially from children, but when you find out the child flat out lied for no apparent reason...wtf, you still make it like it was the dude's own fault? No!
My main concern is real victims of assault and real people who are falsely accused- God, this child needs to seriously be smacked! Oh wait, then she'd have her parents arrested for assault...
Julie at January 15, 2008 4:05 PM
...mind-boggling statement from a recent essay in the Huffington Post by Erica Jong: "So let's just remember our mothers--who bore us, protected us against our fathers and grandfathers and all the pink or brown men who wanted to rape us or kill us or starve us because we were girls."
Erica is soooo right.... If women ran the world, all would be peaceful. After all, no woman who ever ran a country ever used military force...except...Cleopatra...Elizabeth I...Catherine the Great...Indira Gandhi...Golda Meir...Margaret Thatcher...Benazir Bhutto....
Okay, scratch that. EVERY woman who has ever run a country has used, at one time or another, military force. I guess, sometimes, using your indoor voice doesn't work when dealing with the real world.
The "pink men" who so disgust Erica also built hospitals, became doctors, explored the fringes of the unknown world, flew into space, and risked their lives and fortunes doing countless other things that advanced civilization and made our lives better. They were joined along the way (and sometimes surpassed) by the "brown, tan, and wheaten" men and women.
Camille Paglia has posited that if women had been in charge of civilization, we'd still be living in caves. I don't think it's that bad, but Camille, as always, makes an interesting point.
Conan the Grammarian at January 15, 2008 4:14 PM
I'm having a hard time adjusting to writing from a woman who actually appreciates men, likes them even!, says nice things about her bad-ass boyfriend, can sympathize with some of the problems of men, and can laugh at/with men too.
Um. Amy, I know you've had a rough time with medical treatments lately, but have you considered starting a lucrative cloning business?
Jeff at January 15, 2008 4:16 PM
"So let's just remember our mothers--who bore us, protected us against our fathers and grandfathers and all the pink or brown men who wanted to rape us or kill us or starve us because we were girls."
Thinking like this is simply incomprehensible to me. Yes, I know there are rapists in the world, same as there are muggers, burglars, murderers and people who cut in line at the movies.
But, actually, a post on Glenn Sacks' site reminded me of my grandfather the other day. He was an immigrant, came from Russia to Detroit, and spent his days picking through trash on the streets to find scrap metal to sell...and sold enough of it to send my grandfather to Wayne State, all the way through medical school, so he could have a better life.
And I appreciate the nice words about cloning me, Jeff -- but how sad that women who are simply fair and reasonable are apparently so rare.
My badass boyfriend, by the way, is speeding over to pick up my mail before it closes -- he volunteered to do it -- because my assistant had her new computer shipped to me, and I didn't want to leave it sitting there at my mail place, but I don't feel right about driving. I e-mailed her mother that I could probably drive over to get it tomorrow, but Gregg said, no, he'd go pick it up today and just come over to my place a little earlier. Awww.
Gregg is on the phone now (needed directions to make it through traffic in time). He said he just passed a street where we once got stopped by a cop. He had done some hotdog turn with his car and the cop, I guess, thought something was awry between us. Gregg told me not to say anything, but the cop came to the window and said, "Were you fighting?"
I was so offended, I couldn't help myself. I blurted out, "We never fight! We love each other!" The cop told Gregg to drive safely, and let us go.
It really isn't all that hard to have a nice relationship with a guy. Just find a really good guy and be sweet to him. I happened to find a really, really good guy, but even just plain old good guys will be sweet to you if you don't scream, nag, and abuse them. I mean, how hard is that to figure out?
And if you end up with a not-so-good guy, whose fault is that? All men? Or the fact that, in the words of my favorite insult: "Your proctologist called. They found your head."
Amy Alkon at January 15, 2008 5:50 PM
"And if you end up with a not-so-good guy, whose fault is that? All men?" -Thank you! I've been telling my friends that, like they can't grasp the common denominator in all their shitty dead end relationships is...wait for it...THEM
Julie at January 15, 2008 7:03 PM
Amy - I wish someone would tell that to all the girls out here on the east coast. The ones that aren't outright princesses are embittered shrews taking out their anger at every guy that treated them like shit on everyone they meet.
And bitches like Erica wonder why men are so keen to import their wives from China and Japan. They treat their men with dignity, and demand the same in return. From what I've read, American women were like that once. What happened?
brian at January 15, 2008 8:32 PM
Here's some statistics via Glenn Sacks
http://www.glennsacks.com/research_shows_false.htm
According to a nine-year study conducted by former Purdue sociologist Eugene J. Kanin, in over 40 percent of the cases reviewed, the complainants eventually admitted that no rape had occurred (Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 23, No. 1, 1994). Kanin also studied rape allegations in two large Midwestern universities and found that 50 percent of the allegations were recanted by the accuser.
Kanin found that most of the false accusers were motivated by a need for an alibi or a desire for revenge. Kanin was once well known and lauded by the feminist movement for his groundbreaking research on male sexual aggression. His studies on false rape accusations, however, received very little attention.
Kanin's findings are hardly unique. In 1985 the Air Force conducted a study of 556 rape accusations. Over one quarter of the accusers admitted, either just before they took a lie detector test of after they had failed it, that no rape occurred. A further investigation by independent reviewers found that 60 percent of the original rape allegations were false.
According to a 1996 Department of Justice Report, of the roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases analyzed with DNA evidence over the previous seven years, 2,000 excluded the primary suspect, and another 2,000 were inconclusive. The report notes that these figures mirror an informal National Institute of Justice survey of private laboratories, and suggests that there exists "some strong, underlying systemic problems that generate erroneous accusations and convictions."
------
Just so we know that we might be dealing with a problem that's a little larger than may have been previously thought.
flighty at January 15, 2008 9:26 PM
so... in this case a kid, accuses falsely. It will be very hard to do anything but the standard punishment her parents would give a child. Because that IS what she is still. On the other hand what the school and everyone else did is dare I say, a travesty, in the way it was carried out. Obviously they had a security hole that they identified, even if it was a low potential. They could have done that quietly, and really talked about how BAD it is to lie over something like this.
But yes, this much is true. There are very few places in this country where a woman cannot point at a man and say "he did it" where such a guy will not be detained for at least a while. Dunno how to fix.
What might be a start, is what just happened in Brighton, Colo. City sues for flase rape allegations...
There were no criminal charges as part of a deal that the perps would recant to officially close the original case, but that doesn't keep the city from suing for all of the manpower and overtime it put out looking for rapists that didn't exist. The Adult liar, has never even apologised. She is probably still thinking "Well it's not that it didn't happen, it just hasen't happened yet... because men are teh ev0l." But that would be the cover for the fact that she made the allegations 3 days before a court date she had for stealing her grandfather's life savings. But that was certainly not the motive or anything.
:shrug: If you want peace then live alone...
SwissArmyD at January 15, 2008 9:46 PM
Thanks, Flighty -- I hope Dena is around to read that.
And beyond the horror and the damage to the falsely accused, we taxpayers do pay for these. That seems petty to complain about vis a vis what the falsely accused go through, but how about the false accusers start being made to pick up the tab.
Again, if somebody is actually raped, that's horrible, and it should be prosecuted, but false accusations are life rape, and should be treated accordingly.
Amy Alkon at January 15, 2008 10:11 PM
This is clearly evidence that construction workers are at serious risk from the accusations of deranged children. They must be kept separate.
justin case at January 15, 2008 10:55 PM
I think a point is being missed here. In response to a false allegation against a construction worker, all construction workers at the school are now being treated as potential rapists - at, if you read the whole article, the insistence of parents. The guy accused was cleared, but the incident is still being used to whip up a lynch-mob mentality against the builders. It's anti-male, yes, but perhaps class is also a factor? I don't know what kind of area this school is in, but perhaps it's because there are not just men, they're working men. What kind of attitude is this going to inculcate in the kids?
Paddybrown at January 16, 2008 12:57 AM
"I wish someone would tell that to all the girls out here on the east coast. The ones that aren't outright princesses are embittered shrews taking out their anger at every guy that treated them like shit on everyone they meet." - Brian
Hey, now! I'm an east coast (Boston/South Shore) girl, not embittered and not a shrew. I don't nag (confession: if bf is running 15+ minutes late...again...and we need to go somewhere I'll sigh and let him know I'd appreciate some punctuality. No yelling. No mean, derogatory words. When he's on time every now and then I let him know I'm thrilled. Other than that I don't have any "bitch" issues.)
As a female, though, I find I have the same problem w/ other women as described on this site many times. When your close girl_friend is an entitled princess/shrew/biyotch it's esp. trying b/c there's no sex. Just a pain in the ass who talks about herself and over-analyzes/obsesses over her most recent flame for the millionth time. News flash: guys know how to use phones. If he doesn't call you back after a month he's never calling. GET OVER IT. At least when you're in a romantic relationship w/ an asshole there's a chance you're getting laid. Unless she's one of those types and she w/holds as punishment b/c you left a sock on the floor two weeks ago and didn't beg for forgiveness and, like, kiss her dog's (note: the dog is more important than you'll ever be) rear end.
I find it difficult to get along w/ many ladies b/c they annoy me. It's frustrating b/c I'd like to have a few more meaningful female relationships...but, like men will complain, many are very dramatic and irrational and mean. It's tough to deal w/ and disheartening b/c it would be nice to have a couple more nice friends to hang out with, debate some politics and go to a wine tasting. Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of the girly things like talking about personal stuff (then I don't have to bother bf all the time). But it has to be a two-way street and the friend needs to genuinely care. I put 150% into friendships and my bf and want the same in return.
Gretchen at January 16, 2008 5:51 AM
Just read the case about Patrick Waring in Australia. If I had the money I'd donate to Patrick and his family. That's horrendous.
He should be able to sue her/her family (they raised the twat they can suffer for her vile accusations) to help them financially.
Gretchen at January 16, 2008 6:00 AM
I think a point is being missed here. In response to a false allegation against a construction worker, all construction workers at the school are now being treated as potential rapists - at, if you read the whole article, the insistence of parents.
Uh, that was the point of the top part of my post. Why I put the bit about the caution about construction workers first.
Men in general are presumed to be child molesters without evidence. I've complained about that, too -- and set the record straight on the bad methodology of the "advocacy researchers" whose "research" is behind that lie:
http://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2007/05/diddle_he_or_di.html
I think it's not just rape they're fearing at this school, however. There's a general stupidness and propensity toward fear of things that are statistically very unlikely, like child kidnapping. Barry Glassner writes about this stuff in The Culture of Fear: Why Americans Are Afraid of the Wrong Things, great book.
What people should be afraid of is, for example, their kids getting diabetes from being fat little weebles who don't go outside (due, in part, to the parents untoward fear of kiddie-napping).
Amy Alkon at January 16, 2008 6:35 AM
P.S. Still best to put in only one link per comment -- I have the key to the spam folder, so I put two in mine. Want to put in two links, make two comments.
Amy Alkon at January 16, 2008 6:36 AM
"Thanks, Flighty -- I hope Dena is around to read that."
Wow - you didn't criticize Flighty on not sourcing the methodology of that study. Which doesn't even credit the "large city" that Kanin procured those figures from.
I didn't source any studies or findings, because there is such an enourmous spectrum, they don't appear to be using the same tools, and they all seem to include cases where the individual recanted, not just where is was proven to be a false accusation. And people, especially children, will recant their statements in fear. I don't feel like any of these statistics are conclusive.
Here is an exerpt I'd like to share:
At the low end, some studies and sources have claimed that 2% of rape allegations made to police are false. The FBI finds that about 8% are false. Some studies - most famously one by sociologist Eugene Kanin, examining rape reports in a single, small Midwestern city - have found false reporting rates as high as 41%."
The rest of this link is here
www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/04/18/false-rape-reports/
with a very interesting mathematical equation, which is probably closer to accurate than any of these studies / statistics, which all appear to be the "best guesses" of whomever is producing them, to help further their purpose.
dena at January 16, 2008 7:36 AM
I didn't read the study because I'm still a bit high from anesthesia, but I have read data on this before, and have read the studies, and I know from that that you're wrong in what you posted before.
Amy Alkon at January 16, 2008 8:07 AM
And as I posted before, it doesn't matter how big or small the numbers are -- if you're a victim of a false accusation of rape, it's a big fucking problem.
I'm actually a big critic of the need for people to pinpoint "one in four," etc., when actually stats may not be that correct or available.
False accusations happen. There should be remedies for them and preventive measures set up so there's some sort of punishment for those who make them. Financial and in terms of loss of freedom.
Amy Alkon at January 16, 2008 8:09 AM
"I didn't read the study because I'm still a bit high from anesthesia, but I have read data on this before, and have read the studies, and I know from that that you're wrong in what you posted before."
How was I wrong? Because I said I don't think that false rape reportings are the epidemic that these men's right activists and antifeminists make it out to be? The ones that are harping that about 50% of the rape accusations are false. Or because I said that people who falsely report rapes hurt real rape victims too?
Or because I said that the number of actual rapes outweighs false reports? Even using Kanin's engorged figure, over half of reported rapes are true, and I think we can all agree that a large percentage of actual rapes go unreported.
Yea, I'm really out of line there (note sarcasm). You just can't stand someone to contest what you say.
Also, I am quite confident that I have done a significant amount more research than you in this area. As a victim, and now as a court appointed child rights advocate in my area (which I volunteer my time to do). I am not a feminist nor anti-feminist. What I do not support is either of these groups exaggerating numbers. Saying there is a high number of false reports can damage real victims credibility, exaggerating the definition of rape damages the impact that a rape accusation carries.
In my REAL LIFE experience dealing with children who are rape victims I have seen them recant their stories, after they saw their mothers cry and thought it was their fault - that they were hurting their mom by saying these things and not realizing that the mother was hurt by her child being hurt. Or get confused from PTSD and tell different versions or events. I have even seen them lie and say it was someone else, because they needed to tell someone that they were being hurt, but are terrified to tell who it really is.
So no, I can't come up with a good way to punish them. And I am terribly sorry that a man can be accused of something he didn't do. But making it seem like it happens all the time is no good for anyone. The best advice that I could give would be for a man to avoid those situations where he could potentially be accused. Just as I avoid situtations where i could potentially be raped (dark, drug addict filled alleys). Yea, it's not fair. But crying about it isn't helping, and actually could potentially be hurting legitimate rape victims.
dena at January 16, 2008 9:58 AM
Paddy: I don't doubt that class (and possibly race) is an issue. The school sounds like the kind of place where normally the only adult male present is the custodian, and the children are all tought to avoid him.
Cousin Dave at January 16, 2008 10:03 AM
Dena, what is your problem? The subject of this thread is the false accusation and the school's totally perverted reaction to it. A man was accused of rape; the charge was proven false (note how the accused man was not entitled to a presumption of innocence), and yet the school proceeded as if it were true. You keep saying the man in question should not have put himself in a position to be falsely accused. He was , missy. On the job, earning money to support his family, where women like you would expect him to be. What is he supposed to do -- not go to work? Guess what: there are women present where I work. Do I need to quit my job so that I'll never be falsely accused by any woman in my workplace? Maybe I should go to work in a place where there are only men. Except of course that that's illegal.
You keep saying, "I'm sorry about what happened, but,". Why the "but?" What you keep wanting to come back to is, "women don't lie about rape. Okay, some do, but it isn't many, so we should just say they don't. And if a few hundred or thousand or million men get their lives ruined by it, too bad." Amy and others have quoted you the statistics, but you keep putting your fingers in your ears and chanting "I can't hear you!" You keep going back to your work with child rape victims, and the clear implication is that you don't think children ever lie about it. If you had your way, the McMartin Preschool defendents would still be rotting in jail.
Dena, I think your work experience has put you into a mental state where you are simply not capable of empathisizing with a man who has been wronged by a false rape accusation. If that is the case, it would be better for your own credibility if you refrained from commenting on threads that cover this subject, since you have nothing useful to add. Otherwise, everyone here is simply going to start ignoring all of your posts.
Cousin Dave at January 16, 2008 10:18 AM
The best advice that I could give would be for a man to avoid those situations where he could potentially be accused.
So no men should ever do construction work on a school, or go to the movies or even leave the house?
Amy Alkon at January 16, 2008 10:40 AM
This is from the "mathematical model" article Dena linked to:
"Ninety-eight percent of all women may be completely truthful on this subject, and yet we may still have a substantial false rape report rate."
flighty at January 16, 2008 1:49 PM
@dena
The original Kanin study is here in PDF form. Read the thing before you criticise it. You might be surprised at the lengths he goes to to dispel some of the previous mythologies about women who claim rape.
The FBI does not collect statistics on false allegations. That is a complete furphy.
As a "child rights advocate" you should be aware that there are as many male victims of child sex abuse as female. You should also be aware that women commit the majority of child abuse overall(even if sexual abuse is included). In a school setting the most likely person to sexually abuse a kid is a woman.
The real tragedy in all this is that the presence of those additional men in that school very probably makes the environment safer for everybody. Instead decades of unthinking, generalised demonisation of men results in hysteria that totally blinds everyone to reality.
gwallan at January 16, 2008 6:58 PM
As a man, I am extremely aware of the potential for false accusations - even at the subconscious level. Once, when I was in a mall, I saw a little girl around 4-5 years old standing in the center of the food court, terrified, crying. Sadly, my first thought WASN'T to go and comfort her, to see where her parents were - it was to find my wife or another woman so that I couldn't be accused later of being a child molester. My wife had been in another part of the mall, so I had to stand there and watch the little girl cry, waiting for my wife to show up, for about five minutes. I couldn't take the chance that someone, somewhere would assume that I was a child molester simply by taking her hand and asking her if she was ok or by leading her to the mall offices where someone could page her mother.
At work, I am extremely conscious about anything that could be misconstrued as sexual harassment. I have had friends send me blond or mildly obscene jokes, which I have immediately deleted in a cold sweat, remembering the men in Britain who were fired for RECEIVING sexually suggestive emails.
This is the environment modern-day feminism has spawned - all men are rapists, regardless of their age, physical status, occupation, social status. I'm an adult - I can deal with assholes, regardless of their gender. What troubles me is that my grandson is growing up in this atmosphere, being told that simply by virtue of the fact that he's male, he's a rapist, child-molester, mysogynist, responsible for the oppression of women, dosed with Ritalin, force-fed Oprah and Dr. Phil until he succumbs to the propaganda and learns to despise himself.
Steve at January 16, 2008 7:51 PM
Another blogger on this topic.
People aren't naturally good. But teaching kids to think that they can move successfully and risklessly through life by only dealing with known personalities is a tragic mistake.
Crid at January 16, 2008 8:07 PM
I was there with you until the Ritalin part. But, first, I don't understand why so many boys are deemed to be behavior problems. First, what qualifies as a behavior problem? Are these boys actually behavior problems in school and elsehwere to a point where it's truly disruptive -- to the class and to the boys' own learning? And if so, what's to blame? Is it the parents? Boys were not especially naughty when I was growing up -- because if you were naughty, boy or girl, you'd get seriously punished. Boys sat still, girls sat still. I can't believe kids today are substantially different biologically, so...what gives?
As for Ritalin, I take it now, have for about 10 years, and I only wish somebody had diagnosed me as ADHD in high school or college, and I would have been able to pay better attention, and take classes where I didn't just write my way to a good grade.
Amy Alkon at January 16, 2008 8:10 PM
Agree totally with Schneier, Crid.
We need to help children develop their natural intuition about risk, and not give them overbroad rules.
This is Barry Glassner/Culture of Fear territory, too.
Amy Alkon at January 16, 2008 8:13 PM
Amy - Children AREN'T different. Teachers are. When I was in second grade (in 1976) I was, how you say, energetic? The teacher demanded I be put on Ritalin because she wasn't competent to handle an energetic 7 year old. Luckily for me, my doctor told her to go piss up a rope.
Teachers now don't want anything disruptive for a bunch of reasons. First, sloth. Disciplining children is almost like work. Second, fear. If the teacher disciplines the child, the child complains, the teacher ends up in a world of shit.
brian at January 16, 2008 8:29 PM
point of clarification: the teacher I had in 1976 was not a representative sample of teachers of the day, she was just extraordinarily incompetent. She was willing to have a child medicated to mask her incompetence.
Now, they all want it to make their lives easier, since they often aren't allowed to use any real discipline.
brian at January 16, 2008 8:32 PM
@amy
Teenage boys are the most marginalised group in our culture. They are in a transition state from being a legitimate target of concern and compassion as children to the state of pure evil we define as "men". Unfortunately, even though they are still children, they have no means of defence and nobody who even bothers to defend them.
Eighty five percent of teachers are women. Many of them have absolutely no empathy for men let alone boys. Many of them would object to the idea that any compassion for males is warranted at all. The events in this school are a travesty. However in our current culture they are entirely predictable.
gwallan at January 16, 2008 9:10 PM
Many of them have absolutely no empathy for men let alone boys. Many of them would object to the idea that any compassion for males is warranted at all.
I'm not experienced in this area, so I have to ask, how do you know this? Can you please substantiate what you're saying above?
I know three teachers, two women, one man, and none of them seems to reflect what you say above. Of course, that doesn't mean you're wrong -- I'd just like to see where you got the information.
Amy Alkon at January 16, 2008 9:30 PM
Amy it's not just teachers. It's not just women. I have no doubt that most women can demonstrate enormous compassion for those males they are immediately linked to but beyond that it vanishes to almost nothing.
I've spent nearly forty years engaged in various aspects of our education system including responsibility for my state's school funding systems for several years. I've been taught by teachers, worked with teachers and taught teachers. I've seen it change from a relatively neutral system to one in which boys are now significantly behind on every single indicator. Meanwhile all of our schools run numerous girl only programs while the equivalent for boys are man-bites-dog stories. When I challenge this in either political or educational settings the responses are always to push blame outside their jurisdiction. The typical response is to hold boys responsible for their own shortcomings. Even suggestions that, regardless of causality, the schools system is best placed to deal with it are rejected. Thus the declining performance of half of the students becomes the default position.
I'm judging them on what they do Amy. In our schools' programming a predominantly female teaching service determines the routine. Gone is discipline. Gone is competition. Gone are male role models. Gone or going is physical activity. All the things boys need are gone, going or already forced out. It's a system that has been progressively remodelled in a female image over two decades. Remember the school you wrote about here. Ask yourself if that's an environment any male would want to be in.
If you haven't read it The War Against Boys by Christina Hoff Summers is worthwhile. While I believe she overstates her case at times she has the fundamentals well pinned down.
Carol Gilligan has much to answer for.
gwallan at January 17, 2008 2:51 AM
Meanwhile all of our schools run numerous girl only programs while the equivalent for boys are man-bites-dog stories.
Can you give some examples?
Amy Alkon at January 17, 2008 4:50 AM
Title IX.
The idea was that girls were being systematically left out of sport. So quotas were set.
But the girls just didn't cooperate. Seems that not nearly enough of them were interested in sport to balance things out. So, in order to meet the quotas, schools wound up killing off the smaller sports for the boys. This was especially prevalent at the college level.
The response from the typical Title IX supporter? I don't know - I've never heard one answer a question about it. I'm guessing they don't give a fuck. After all, the losers here are just boys.
brian at January 17, 2008 5:41 AM
It's kind of like the idea that we should shove girls into becoming physicists. We don't shove boys into becoming psychologists. Heard Pinker give a very interesting talk on this a few years back at an evolutionary psych conference in Austin, during the Lawrence Summers witchhunt.
Amy Alkon at January 17, 2008 5:53 AM
Having recently won a third civil suit involving false child molestation allegations against me, lodged by my emotionally ill ex-wife, I can attest that our system gives a relatively easy path to the accuser.
There is currently no recourse for this abuse of process, although courts and psychologists are apparently experiencing a "raising of awareness" where angry, mentally unhealthy ex-wives are concerned, which often are exposed as such on personality testing batteries and personal interviews.
The court-appointed psychologist in our case testified that about a third of his court-assigned custody cases involve sexual molestation allegations against the father. I daresay this represents altogether too much raised consciousness.
Im my state (California) it is difficult to impossible to recover fees for defending oneself in one of theses witch-hunts, despite media accounts to the contrary. These often accompany the sensational cases involving multiple layers of victimhood and demands for justice (Tawana Bradley and Mike Nifong spring to mind).
trentk269 at January 19, 2008 1:07 PM
Some of the worst abuses in our courts are in child custody cases, and usually, it seems to me, they're against men. Suffering is, in turn, inflicted on the children who lose access to their dads. It's easy as pie for a mother to lodge false child abuse or molestation accusations, and the man is presumed guilty and generally finds it very hard to prove himself innocent.
I wrote a column about the myths about child sexual abuse by men:
http://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2007/05/diddle_he_or_di.html
Shortly after it ran, I was dropped from the C-Ville alt weekly. After many, many years of being a popular columnist there, they all of a sudden (after getting inaccurate letters from readers, which they ran -- despite my debunking the bullshit stats they contended were accurate -- they were in the mood for something "fresh," in the paper, and began running a sex columnist who advised women to pick up an mirror and peer at their coochies. Wow, really forward stuff.
Oh yeah, and after I transmitted the column, an editor wrote me and said his daughter, who'd gone to the free psych services of her college, was pressured to accuse her father of abusing her as a child ("recovered memories" -- which are bullshit...ask vets, whose problem isn't that they can't remember but they can't forget)...anyway, lucky for him, she came home and reported what they were trying to get her to do to her parents instead.
Amy Alkon at January 19, 2008 2:33 PM
Here's the story of what happened to the one woman who wrote to defend my column to C-Ville, from the competing paper, The Hook:
http://www.readthehook.com/Stories/2003/10/16/coverSavingSarahSatanWorsh.html
(This happened prior to C-Ville running my column on the myths about the prevalance of child sexual abuse and the assumption that most men are evil.)
Amy Alkon at January 19, 2008 2:35 PM
Amy
Sorry about the delay. Been away for the weekend.
I mentioned my involvement in schools funding. This was during the mid to late nineties. My department had specific budget lines for self esteem programs for girls and gender based curriculum development particularly in maths/science.
People I know within the system assure me that many of these programs are still funded.
Brian mentioned Title IX. That functions in the reverse manner by eliminating existing programs for males. Interestingly womens' studies courses are still able to operate with no equivalent for men. Some pigs are more equal etc.
I still think you should read "The War Against Boys". Summers presents the case far better than I can. It involves a broad examination we can't really perform in a blog setting.
Given the poor performance of boys in western education systems the question that needs to be asked is how far behind do boys need to be before we achieve equality.
gwallan at January 19, 2008 7:28 PM
@Amy
If it's possible you should compare some of the math texts used in schools now with the ones you used yourself. I've made a lot of money in recent years tutoring kids in maths. Typically the boys are easy. I just give them my old textbooks on the appropriate topics. Their difficulty often stems from poor literacy. The older material didn't depend on reading skill or neatness to anything like the degree of the current presentation.
This is one outcome of the "gender based curriculum development" I previously refered to. In order to make education more "girl-friendly" the very presentation of education was changed. Much of this was done without reference to boys' needs OR their known shortcomings. In fact part of the motivator for change was the five or so percent girls lagged by in maths/science. Meanwhile boys trailed girls in literacy by more than fifteen percent.
While this has been happening men have been frightened away from teaching by gender specific scrutiny and the threat of false allegations. They are seriously uncomfortable environments for men in ways that I don't believe most women realise. As a thought experiment imagine the response to a stranger walking down a school passage. Who is more likely to be stared at in suspicion or even accosted and interrogated about their presence? It's actually an experiment I'd love to do for real. Maybe we could do it at the Perry Hall school which, I'm sure, is a standard bearer for equality.
gwallan at January 19, 2008 9:55 PM
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