All Talk, A Lot Of Napping
At a certain point, a guy's sex drive calms down a bit. There's an idea about male menopause, called "andropause," but it's disputed (it's made out to be the male counterpart to menopause, which it's really not, as it's a decline, not a total shutdown in repro systems, per the link).
Anyway, I'm working on a question, and I'm wondering, if a 55-year-old man goes away for the weekend with a woman he's dating, and he doesn't seem to have E.D. or anything wrong with the parts, but just talks about sex and then doesn't really seem all that interested in doing it...but then gets around to doing it, and not exactly enthusiastically...this isn't a case of nerves or tiredness, huh? And it probably bespeaks what's to come...which isn't a whole lot of, uh, coming, in the woman's future, unless she's also dating Mr. Buzzy.
I think that guy just isn't into sex, or was never into sex. Maybe he's got a drop in testosterone, but I don't think he's going to turn into the raging beast this woman hopes he'll be.
This guy does what a number of older guys do in his position: talks about what trouble she's going to be in from him (like he's going to have a hard time doing anything but banging her), and then does anything but. I think it's an ego thing. Too hard to admit that he'd rather be shopping or napping.
Or maybe he's just not that into her? This statement: ...talks about what trouble she's going to be in from him (like he's going to have a hard time doing anything but banging her), and then does anything but. has got me wondering, because I've heard younger guys say the same thing, but when it came right down to it, they weren't all that interested either. Leaves me wondering whether he's really serious about her, or just pretending to be because he wants someone there for him, but doesn't want to have to be too invested in the relationship. Maybe he doesn't want to be alone as he gets older? Who knows? Talk about mixed signals!
I dunno, BF's going on 53, and he hasn't slowed down at all. And I can't tell him I'd rather be shopping or napping (because I wouldn't!)! o_O
Flynne at June 9, 2008 8:45 AM
I don't think he's "just not into her." He talks a good game, like how she'll "be in trouble" if they make out after a coffee or lunch date, and then no trouble at all.
Amy Alkon at June 9, 2008 9:32 AM
After you've been with someone for a while, sometimes the memory of good sex is better than doing it. I think he is into her, but by the time a man is 55, you have to do a little more than lay out on the bed like a raw oyster on the half shell. I think older men enjoy a little striptease and lingerie a whole lot more than younger guys. Maybe she needs to be more creative.
kg at June 9, 2008 9:47 AM
In one of the earlier novels, this guy wrote about a middle-aged protagonist dealing with romantic entanglements. I'm not going to do justice to the passage, and ought to go to the library to look it up. But it goes something like this: 'He found he could pass up some opportunities to flirt and seduce without feeling like he'd let down his team.'
That describes it perfectly; it happened to me at work last week, and it saved everyone a lot of trouble. This probably does a lot to protect marriages, too. What's amazing is that the guy was in his early thirties when he wrote that. I'm a nonfiction guy, but people with that kind of insight deserve their success.
Crid at June 9, 2008 10:19 AM
PS- Are we going to get the Prev and Next buttons back? Those were really useful. Also, are the archives going to have all the posts and comments for the month on one page again? That made it easy to review everyone's thoughts
Crid at June 9, 2008 10:20 AM
Gregg is on his way home now, and is hoping to put back "Prev" and "Next" and "Home" buttons in a few minutes. Sorry about all this annoyance with the site. Movable Type is really persnickety. He changed the site to save me some money on server costs, because now we're with a much better (Nexcess.net in Ann Arbor) but much pricier server company. I'd rather have it be all on one page for the month...apparently, it loads slower and eats bandwidth. I'll ask him about it. And thanks, also, to you and everybody who lets me know when stuff isn't working or could be better. Often, I only know when I get a message or comment about it!
Amy Alkon at June 9, 2008 11:07 AM
FYI, they RECENTLY started dating. Should be the Hot Zone now, not the Dead Zone...hence (sorry, Crid, deadline day, short on substitutes) my appraisal of the situation.
Amy Alkon at June 9, 2008 11:09 AM
Along Crid's line of thought, one of my favorite Anthony Hopkin's lines was in Surviving Picasso, where he says something like "sex without seduction is meaningless. You may as well be eating a ham sandwich."
eric at June 9, 2008 11:11 AM
Hell, Amy, just put it all out in a box set of DVDs with a companion book, like they do on PBS. If you throw in a tote bag, I'll pay $59.95 for seasons 5 thru 8.
Crid at June 9, 2008 11:41 AM
I think it's a reflection of his libido. He may not have a very strong sex drive, but is embarassed to admit it. It's also a matter of perception. He may think that he's a real horndog with what he did with her that weekend, whereas she may be expecting energetic sessions a few times a day, and may consider that normal.
Some of the mature guys I've been with have made up for their slower recovery time with a great finesse at sensuality, and a lot of oral.
If he has a low drive, he should probably be with someone who has the same drive as himself.
Chrissy at June 9, 2008 12:39 PM
I'm 63, and if I recall correctly, my sex drive fell off quite a bit right around the time I turned 50. I'm still interested in sex, and I can still perform reasonably well, I guess -- even without Viagra (although the Viagra helps tremendously!)
But, on the other hand, 'getting laid' is NOT the over-riding obsession that it was thirty or forty years ago. I still enjoy it, but I'm not willing to jump through hoops for it, nor walk barefoot over hot coals.
Your post doesn't say anything about the woman in this relationship; but if she is playing hard to get or acting like she is God's gift to men, that might have a much more negative effect on an older guy than it would with a young guy.
el viejo at June 9, 2008 12:56 PM
Here it is, from Turrow's "The Burden of Proof", page 88: "He admired a hundred women in a day, just moving about downtown. But he had practiced such deliberate oblivion. He was one of those men glad for middle years, the settled portion of life, when sexual preoccupation could be comfortably left behind without some slur on masculinity."
I'm not there yet, and might still take a shot at that woman at work... But if it turns out there could be weird consequences and aggravation, then fuckit.
Crid at June 9, 2008 1:34 PM
Gee, I hate to say this because it's just so harsh - but talk is easy because it's cheap. Another unfortunate thing is that you might look great, but not smell right - even down to the subliminals, which are really important. A fantasy about you might be better than the real thing because of the need for caution w/r/t contraceptives. And then, you might just not be the perfect 10 in mind any more.
Of course it's unfair; the guy might not be the hunk you lust for either. That's just how it works.
If I could combine the fundamentally animal, smokin' hot nutcase I was once addicted to briefly with the vision of goodness who has cared for me dearly these last 16 years, I'd have everything. Except any sleep.
But I can't.
Radwaste at June 9, 2008 1:51 PM
The older the man gets, the less he cares about sex. That is the way it is. So, if that fact doesn’t deserve the dignity of being called something, i.e. male menopause, then so be it.
Personally, I am more interested in Money than sex, yet I am not yet fifty. At any other point in my life, I was interested in sex and what I needed to do to assure that I will be having sex. This is a big change in my life. So call it what you want, andropause, male menopause, what ever. But it is real.
So if sex or the desire for sex is removed from the picture, then we are just talking about who makes the best room mate aren’t we?
Anyway, this statement I think that guy just isn't into sex, or was never into sex. Maybe he's got a drop in testosterone, but I don't think he's going to turn into the raging beast this woman hopes he'll be.
Could be that he was into sex, now he is not. He wishes for the glory days, yet even if he has sex it is not the same feeling. No man over fifty is going to be the raging beast this woman hopes he'll be.
Also, I have noticed that women all of the sudden want to have lots of sex when they approach forty-five. Where was all of that need when we were young?
rusty wilson at June 9, 2008 2:11 PM
Interesting you should mention that, rusty, I was thinking about that myself. When my ex was ready willing and able, I wasn't, because I had spent the day working, then coming home to him and 2 little ones, then doing the cleaning, cooking laundry, taking care of all of them, dinner, baths, etc. and so on, and I was just so damn tired, I couldn't be bothered. Then when we divorced, I was grateful for the break from the badgering. When BF and I hooked up, it was like I rediscovered what a pleasure sex truly is - and there was less pressure and worry because now I can't get pregnant, even if I tried, and even if he hadn't had a vasectomy.
Flynne at June 9, 2008 4:57 PM
hee. cleaning, cooking comma laundry, not cooking laundry!
Flynne at June 9, 2008 4:58 PM
Rusty: No man over fifty is going to be the raging beast this woman hopes he'll be.
WHOA!!!! Speak for yourself bud!!!
As a man over 50 I am willing to admit I have my moments of non-interest, but those are more environmental than physical. (It's over 100 degrees, my ex called for money, I got my tax bill, etc.)
If it's a short term thing, it may be something like i mentioned above. If it's longer term, maybe he has some physical issues. Maybe he is so out of shape sex is a challenge. OR ... and i realize this may be a stretch ... maybe it's not him at all, maybe she just isn't as interesting as she thinks ...
Maybe he should see a doctor, there are medicines that may help him. Maybe she should see a plastic surgeon, silicone and botox can work wonders. Maybe they should find a different hobby. Maybe I should shut the hell up and go "bother" my wife....
steveda at June 9, 2008 8:58 PM
53 here, been accused of using Viagra, never touch the stuff.Sex drive as fine as ever, with skill-sets added from experience. Main problem is finding a woman in the San Francisco area that is not bat-shit crazy.
mbruce at June 10, 2008 6:34 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2008/06/all-talk-a-lot.html#comment-1556679">comment from mbruceHilarious. And understandable.
Amy Alkon at June 10, 2008 6:37 AM
"Maybe she needs to be more creative."
I would be more direct: she needs to either become 25 again or become an absolute skanky vixen focused on turning his crank. Young gals can lay there and sweat and still get guys wild, since the gal's fertility (expressed via their looks and body) provides all the stimulation a functioning guy needs. Older gals gotta work it much, much harder than they got used to when they were 22.
50 year old guys I know like the same thing 25 year old guys do: 25 year old women. If you sent me on a weekend trip with my mother's age 50+ friends, I would find it pretty easy to avoid ravishing them. In fact, even bedding them would be a "eat your peas" moment.
Guys may couple with age 50+ gals due to love of mates, resignation, or laziness, but let's not avoid a harsh reality, okay? Put that 50 year old in bed with a smiling, eager co-ed, and I suspect his interest spikes (ahem) much quicker.
Yeah, yeah, but young gals cannot compete with the AARP members on [fill in whatever imagined desired trait women wish to project onto men's sexuality], but toned thighs and full, high-standing breasts do wonders for most guys' interest, both older and younger. Varicose veins, sagging flesh, and good conversation? Not so much...
Put simply, don't blame his flagging libido when your sagging boobs may be an equally valid explanation.
Spartee at June 10, 2008 11:32 AM
Hey, Spartee, I know some women turn into fat, elasticized-waist-wearing, shapeless little trolls when they get older, but not all of them. A lady in my neighborhood is winning gold medals in cycling at the age of 65. She is in much better shape than a lot of those 25-year-olds with muffin tops and is an engaging and interesting person, too. She has been active her entire life - that's the key.
Pirate Jo at June 10, 2008 12:24 PM
50 year old guys I know like the same thing 25 year old guys do: 25 year old women.
I gave up chasing younger women years ago. First of all, after I got re-married my wife really resented it (I winlt repeat her vulgar threats) ... and secondly, they just ran too damned fast anyway. The wheezing and panting is supposed to came afterwards, not before.
steveda at June 10, 2008 6:53 PM
I know a 47-year-old, healthy fit man who is also all talk, no action (no ED and, as far as I can tell, no gayness, either). We dated three months before having sex. I know, I know. shoulda said goodbye at the end of sexless month one, but I fell for his, "I've rushed into intimacy too early in the past, and the relationships haven't worked out. let's take it slow and make this one last." Aw, sweet. Translation: "let's take our memories of that lackluster encounter we had on wednesday and make it last til a week from next friday, 'kay?" Any seduction moves I busted - and believe me, I busted loads - were met with resistance, and often the accusation that there was something wrong with a woman with such a high libido. We had an extremely unpleasant breakup after an incredibly unsatisfying year. Sorry, LW, but some guys have no sex drive. You're in for a frustrating - and potentially self-esteem-damaging - future with this one.
biscuit at June 11, 2008 8:01 AM
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