When Free Speech Is A Threat To National Security
I can be a little insulting to believers -- of all stripes -- because I find it silly and childish to insist, sans evidence, that there's a big man in the sky, and then that he happens to give a shit about whether you kept the extra change the cashier gave you back.
A friend who comes to my writing cafe was laughing with me today about a woman she knows who talks about "The Parking God," and "parking karma." This woman makes people in her car observe a moment of silence when they're having trouble parking (as if this will cause a white light to beam down and disintegrate a parked car, leaving them a space). Yes, this woman is a grown adult.
I pointed out that there's genocide going on in Darfur, but this woman believes the Big Guy In The Sky is going to ignore all the people there dying horribly so she won't be late to her dinner reservation. Right. If that's really how god works, well, god is an asshole.
I can say stuff like that still because I live in America, and I'm not planning any trips to London in the near future. Courageous Geert Wilders wasn't so lucky (and note that we use the word "courageous" about anyone speaking out against Islam, since the religion of peacers have a tendency to be murderous little fuckers).
Here's the story from the Daily Mail, about how he was invited to speak to Parliament and then turned away after British Home Secretary Jacqui Smith learned that he was planning to show Fitna, his film which (duh!) links the Koran to terrorism:
Mr Wilders, 45, was classed as someone considered likely to incite hatred and his visit a threat to 'community harmony and therefore public security'.He was seized by border guards after his aircraft touched down, and questioned for more than an hour before flying back to the Netherlands.
As he left he vowed to keep trying to come to Britain and revealed that he is going to Italy and the U.S. in the coming weeks to screen his film, which sparked violent protests around the Muslim world last year.
He said: 'I am not a terrorist, but I am being treated like one. I did not come here for attention, I came to make a point about freedom of speech.
'Even if you do not like me, if you do not agree with my views, in the name of freedom of speech I should be allowed to hold a debate with others on those views.
'This just shows the Islamification of the UK.'
...He has urged the Dutch government to ban the Koran and warned of a 'tsunami' of Islam swamping the Netherlands.
His 17-minute documentary features verses from the Koran - which it brands a 'fascist book' - alongside images of the 9/11 and 7/7 terrorist attacks.
It equates Islam's holy text with violence and ends with a call to Muslims to remove 'hate-preaching' verses.
It emerged that Mr Wilders, who is facing prosecution in the Netherlands for incitement to hatred and discrimination, visited Britain in December and met with no opposition.
Since the Quran incites violence, and Muslims are instructed to take it literally, perhaps he's right about banning it as...well, an incitement to violence. I mean, Theo Van Gogh wasn't accosted by a man who threw a tulip at him and ran.
Oh, and courtesy of the Daily Mail, a couple of the free-speaking fellows the U.K. has seen fit to let in:
FIREBRAND CLERIC
Egyptian-born Muslim cleric Yusuf Al-QaradawiVisited London in 2004 at the invitation of Ken Livingstone, then the city's mayor, who considered him a 'progressive force for change'.
Egyptian-born spiritual leader of Muslim Brotherhood, which embraces the Hamas organisation that controls Gaza.
Has justified suicide bombing, which he calls martyrdom, and the killing of Israeli women and children, on the grounds that they are 'militarised'.
ANTI-SEMITIC AGITATOR
Ibrahim Moussawi, editor of the newspaper Al-IntiqadPropagandist for Hezbollah cleared to enter the country by Jacqui Smith in November, despite fierce Tory objections.
He is the head of a TV station that routinely describes suicide bombers as 'martyrs' and which has broadcast a 30-part series on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, an anti-semitic forgery produced in Russia at the beginning of the 20th century that pretends to present a Jewish conspiracy for world takeover.
Moussawi is alleged to have said that Jews are 'a lesion on the forehead of history'.
Do you know how much I hate it when you make me agree with the Daily Hate? I heard about this on the drive home yesterday and was irate.
I'm firmly of the 'I may hate what you say but I'll fight for your right to say it' school of thought. Which means I'm probably due to be booted out of the UK sometime soon.
But I'll keep speaking my mind until I do.
Simon Proctor at February 13, 2009 3:09 AM
I don't believe in banning the Qur'an. That's a slippery slope. If someone interprets the Qur'an as a call to arms and openly advocates murdering others, then that's a crime and this person should be arrested.
Charles at February 13, 2009 4:31 AM
Banning the koran only grants it legitimacy it does not deserve.
But banning a guy from entering a country because a small but vocal minority threatens to riot? That's just crazy talk.
brian at February 13, 2009 4:48 AM
That is not "crazy talk."
That's proof that violence and threats of violence are the only way for a minority to achieve its political aims. Nice Republic we've got here, I wonder if we can keep it?
I think your Prop 8 mob have learned the lesson, as have the ELF, and the abortion clinic bombers. Meanwhile the Congress loots the treasury and the populace yawns. What happens when the less than half of the population that pays income taxes says "no more?"
MarkD at February 13, 2009 6:01 AM
It is PRECISELY "Crazy Talk".
Caving to a violent minority is surrender.
England is officially lost.
brian at February 13, 2009 6:18 AM
>>England is officially lost.
The plucky folk from "this scepter'd isle" may surprise you yet, brian!
People have been saying England is lost since 1066, but they're always mistaken:)
Jody Tresidder at February 13, 2009 7:04 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/02/under-islam-fre.html#comment-1626460">comment from Jody Tresidder>>England is officially lost. The plucky folk from "this scepter'd isle" may surprise you yet, brian! People have been saying England is lost since 1066, but they're always mistaken:)
People who have been brainwashed to not only be willing but eager to kill themselves and take out many others in the name of their religion changes the equation enormously. The modern world, with the possibility for large numbers of primitive people to get around expediently, changes things enormously. England, France, The Netherlands, and other European countries are just fucked. The exception? Switzerland, which didn't let the Muslims emigrate there.
Amy Alkon
at February 13, 2009 7:55 AM
-----offtopic---
Hey Skippy! Why couldn't Captain Renslow just dip it into the Niagra? Just weeks later, in the same empire state and near similarly famous bodies of water, Sully's achievement seems ever-more remarkable....
---Tasteless nose-rubbing concluded (for now)---
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at February 13, 2009 8:08 AM
"The exception? Switzerland, which didn't let the Muslims emigrate there."
Not so. As of the last census, Muslims accounted for 4.26% of the Swiss population, a proportion lower than the figures for France & the Netherlands, but higher than the UK, and much higher than the USA. See here for more info:
http://blog.shuarian.org/?p=144
Seems strange that the British government would be so eager to arrest and silence a duly elected member of a neighboring country's parliament with the whole world watching, but then they don't have to be afraid that Mr. Wilders will behead them or blow them up if they offend him. The UK has just sent a crystal clear message to every jihadi on earth - threaten us, and we'll do what you want.
Martin at February 13, 2009 9:55 AM
dunno, Amy... it's not that you let Muslims immigrate or not, it's if your yourself are willing to stand for something. Of old our bretheren in the UK were always ready to stand... but it seems like WWII scarred them so much that they are too tired to do so now. Our 2nd Ammendment rights are based on English law, but somewhere in the 50's Brits simply gave their guns away, unless they were willing to go through all the trouble to have license for a hunting gun and use it. Similarly when confronted with firey rhetoric about how they should respect the religious teachings of Islam, they are simply saying "yeah, whatever..." only it's not a whatever...
This is naturally the view from this side of the world, but I want to see that English backbone... The will is there, it just seems to be slumbering. The will to call bullsh0t on getting your fellings hurt by what people can say. Common sense says that if you apply that Wilders, you have to apply that to any Muslim cleric. Fair is fair, and most of the Koran is an incitement. Or you throw the whole thing open, and say "isn't your god strong enough to take it?" I tend to remind people in my own religion of that daily.
To any English reader, I mean this in the strongest possible way... we will always be there to help you, but this is a foe you can see coming. It's better to avoid the calimity than to pick up the pieces after they are broken.
SwissArmyD at February 13, 2009 10:00 AM
Since the Quran incites violence, and Muslims are instructed to take it literally, perhaps he's right about banning it as...well, an incitement to violence.
A little deep background is in order here.
The reason Geert Wilders is campaigning for banning the Quran is Mein Kampf.
The latter is banned in the Netherlands (which is true of many European countries).
He is insisting that what is good for the goose is good for the gander: that the reasons for limiting free speech in one case applies just as well to the other.
So, either ban both, or ban neither.
Hey Skipper at February 13, 2009 1:02 PM
Crid:
You have already proven yourself a liar and an championship calibre idiot (advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/01/17/um_they_call_it.html) who cannot comprehend the point of a post or its comments, and who is completely unburdened by any knowledge of the matter at hand.
Good luck with that.
Hey Skipper at February 13, 2009 1:06 PM
How dare you! How dare you!
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at February 13, 2009 3:11 PM
Why couldn't Captain Renslow just dip it into the Niagra?
I know why. Do you?
Hey Skipper at February 13, 2009 6:34 PM
Don't pout.... You were so eager to share the ball-clanging righteousness of Sully's "office like this". I knew the snapback on this arrogance was coming, and I knew it would be deadly and gruesome. (FIFTY lives is a tragic loss, and no one takes amusement in it.) But I was gonna give you until the end of the year, remember? And again, who'da thought it would be the same Empire state, near a similarly famous river?
Thirteen minutes ago (PST), I heard them joking (with continuing respect for a hero) on the Dennis Miller radio show about Sully. And sometime yesterday or today, I saw him posed in his slender, full-height manliness on a magazine or newspaper. People are still into Sully.
Do you still want to say his personal performance was not an outlier? Or as the question was framed last month:
> what are you guys going to
> say something goes badly? That
> it might just as well have
> happened to Sully?
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at February 13, 2009 8:33 PM
Why couldn't Captain Renslow just dip it into the Niagra?
I know why. Do you?
Hey Skipper at February 13, 2009 8:57 PM
Stories like this are appalling in so many ways. It is hard to imagine a more effective way to insult a nominal ally than to deny entry to one of their elected representatives, especially over a free speech issue. It is also hard to imagine a worse way to respond to rising radical violence than appeasement.
I have mixed feelings about banning "incitement" speech. My gut instinct is to err on the side of allowing too much (so I would un-ban Mein Kampf). Banning unpopular political or religious works can get real bad, real fast. By all means talk about what's wrong with it, but don't prevent people from learning about it directly.
Pseudonym at February 13, 2009 9:04 PM
Crid,
You really are ignorant, why display it for the world? Look at a map, you'll find the approach to Buffalo International Airport does not pass over the Niagara River.
Do you get your aviation expertise from Bill O'Reilly? Bill's another shameless attention whore who can't wait to get it on with Geraldo about causes. Blame the dead pilots. Who needs facts, or even cares if the bodies are recovered?
It's spelled Niagara, by the way.
MarkD at February 13, 2009 10:32 PM
i come here to read your islamic posts more than anything.
islam needs to be officially declared NOT a religion. it is a bullshit code of conduct for caravan raiders to keep each other from plundering their own.
as a plunderee, i am ready to start resisting adherants to the cult.
mlah at February 15, 2009 9:21 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/02/under-islam-fre.html#comment-1627058">comment from mlahYou're absolutely right, mlah -- it's a totalitarian system calling itself a religion.
Amy Alkon
at February 16, 2009 12:33 AM
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