I'm sure the moms will give you lots of feedback, but I think the answer will be "it depends". Some of the important factors:

- The age of the kids. Babies and toddlers require lots of attention. Tweens and teens require transportation, but are otherwise pretty independent.

- Disposable income. Can you afford a cleaning service? Play groups?

- Family network. Do you live near the grandparents, or at least siblings or cousins? Being able to hand off the kids occasionally makes a huge difference.

- Ideas of childraising. There are parents who don't care much what happens with their kids. Letting Johnny grow up on the streets makes childraising easy. At the other extreme, really good homeschooling (which most home-schoolers don't manage) requires massive amounts of time.

Don't forget laundry. That used to be at least a full day of hard, manual labor.

Well, I can think of a few factors:
1. If one or more of the children is autistic or otherwise "special needs," it can be tough.

2. If the mom is also caring for elderly parents at the same time as offspring- I watched my own mother do this in an environment with no good nursing home choices, and it was a *grind.*

(I'm thinking that a lot of today's young people will be forced to raise young children and care for their elderly parents at the same time, because people these days are having children much later.)

3. If money is tight, that means extra work. My mother was a stay-at-home, but she also made a LOT of our clothes, did without a dishwasher and sometimes a clothes dryer and of course did all her own housework. She even made toys for us and cut down her old clothes to make us new outfits- in addition to caring for a very large vegetable garden and canning dozens of jars of produce each year. She also kept the household books- all the daily, weekly and monthly financial records. She worked like a mule.

I suspect you're thinking more of Sondheim's "Ladies Who Lunch"- the well-dressed, well-attended chi-chi types who seem to regard children as fashionable accessories. I figure this type of SAT mom is less common, but much more visible, and annoying enough for 10 women. Maybe in your daily rounds you run into more of these than other types.

Whoops! That should have been SAH- for "stay at home."

have you ever had someone try to ask you how much something hurts? A kidney stone hurts, but how much does breaking your leg hurt? They both hurt but not the in the same way...

So, how much can yo strip away expectation from your stay-at-home equation? The mom who constantly runs the delivery service of carting the kids around, probably feels more harried than my mom when she was in her SAH phase, because I carted myself around, got myself to school starting in first grade, and so forth.

What I have seen a lot with both my ex and other moms I know is that there are so many things they want to do, and want their kids to do, that they fall into this trap. A trap where the logistics of doing it all are near impossible, and certainly lead to stress out. Place on top of all that the idea that you SHOULD be able to do that all... And you get ambushed at the end of your own 10-12 hour day [in persuit of the money to pay for all that] with the words "where in hell have you been?"

As the side observer, I'd say that the expectations are the thing that outruns the time... but no doubt you'll get an earful from the person in the trenches.

Haven't read the other responses, so I may overlap. Having worked before, and having friends who did stay home a while and now work, working is HANDS DOWN the easier thing to do. I've never had someone who had done both say anything different.

I keep my house clean. ANd that does not involve cleaning once a week. It's a daily thing. Vacuum daily, dust every few days, get down on hands and knees and scrub the floor with a rag and bucket of soapy water every few days (because no mop really works). Steam mop in between. I do 3 loads of laundry a day. No, I don't ahve to take it tot he spring to scrub it, but they washed things maybe once week or tow back then and owned 2 outfits. I make 3 meals a day for 5 people (only 4 people at lunch) and so cleant he kitchen (dishes in washer,counters washed down, floor swept, food put away) 3 times a day. Every item that enters this house does so because I went and bought it. From food to cars. Every penny that goes out does so because I spent it. All bills, everything. I do our taxes and all finances.

I do the home improvement projects that keep the house nice. I mow, I weed, I plant every flower, I rake. Weekly. I do craft/art projects with 3 kids, daily. I read lots of books to 3 kids, daily. I keep track of every medical need, dental need, and dose of medicine for 5 people. I do school-type worksheet lessons working on reading and thinking skills and basic math, daily. I make sure my kids get social pley time with other kids, and free play time to use their imaginations. We do no scheduled activities yet, I think free play is more important at this age. I read the studies and books on child raising/stages, and take what makes sense to apply to us.

My husband works, a lot. He brings home the money, and when he's home it's his time with the kids unless I REALLY need help with something. He does housework when he can, but it's sporadic at best. That's fine, he works a lot.

Like most sahm's I know, I am also involved in some charities I like.

My SIL works. She wakes up, showers, dresses herself and the kid, takes him to daycare, goes to work. She picks him up after 5, comes home and eats, plays a bit and gets him to bed. She has a cleaning person every other week, and aside from dishes and laundry, that's all the cleaning her house needs since no one is ever there. She spends her income paying people to do what I do, from laying tile to cleaning to even cooking a fair amount. She works for a foster care agency, and does find it fulfilling. I think it a bit odd to pay a high school graduate to watch your own precious kid while you find homes for others, but hey. Her choice.

So basically, I am in charge of every single detail of existence for 5 people. I get up at 6, and am busy till 10pm. I sit when we eat dinner, and when I'm reading to the kids. And I'm hauling around 30 pounds of pregnant tummy right now too. I love it, I chose it, but it ain't easy.

Thank you for bringing this up, Amy, because I asked pretty much the same question just yesterday of a friend of mine who is a SAHM. My boyfriend and I have started talking about the logistics of having kids some day, and I'm pretty sure I would have to be a SAHM to make it work, since he works so many hours, and I would be largely responsible for the day-to-day of childcare whether I worked or not. (There's daycare, but there's also a whole lot that daycare doesn't cover.)

My friend was honest enough to admit that her job can be hard but isn't usually any harder than any other non-physical job. Her house is a little messy, but the kid is cared for, and she gets out with other mom-types every once in awhile.

I think how hard it is would depend on how much you really wanted to be a SAHM mom. My friend was really tired of working full time, and she misses work a little, but for the most part she seems happy. I've been working at least part time since I was 13 years old, and I can't imagine not being financially independent, so I admit I'm freaking out at the thought of being beholden to my (eventual) husband for my material needs.

Being a SAHM seems mentally draining more than physically to me. I mean, how many tantrums can you suffer through in a single day before you punt the kid through a wall?

I stayed home until my young people were in second and fourth grade. I considered the housework exercise, and toting the youngsters around the price of life in the burbs. The part that almost killed me was having only little children to talk to. The lack of mental stimulation was agony, I could feel my brain begin to atrophy.

No personal growth to be found in books. The only books read were board books, there was just no time for my books. I drew the line at kid music. That would have put me over the edge.

For most of us, life is work. I don't mind work. It was the sense of myself as an improvement project that was lost during the stay at home years that was hard. I was so angry at not having "my time". I had a moment of clarity after Offspring the Younger was born, and I realized that I needed to give myself over to the kids for the next ten years or so, and this was the price of having children. That admission made me a better mom and the simmering anger that I'd felt day after day went away.

When you work outside of the home, your job is done at the end of your shift.

There isn't an end of shift for a stay at home mom.

"Having worked before, and having friends who did stay home a while and now work, working is HANDS DOWN the easier thing to do. I've never had someone who had done both say anything different."

I will, with vehemence. In thirty years of work, I have done work ranging from industrial manufacturing assembly line labor (back-breaking work, almost literally) to Fortune 500 professional (unbelievable hours, no mercy). A few college-year jobs I had in my life were certainly easier than SAH parenting (state park entry fee collector), most were more difficult, though.

I never did the full-time SAH thing without end in sight, but I pulled plenty of stay-at-home time alone with kids. There were between-jobs periods were I was with the kids for months, sick-kid weeks where the spouse could not help out, and also regularly-scheduled days where I took care of the kids rather than put them in daycare.

So how hard is it? Tell me (1) how many kids there are and (2) how old the kids are, and then I will tell you how hard it is.

Also, tell me what the work alternative is. Are you talking about being a coal miner? A mergers and acquisitions attorney in a large city practice? Teaching high school biology in an upper middle class suburban high school?

In my experience, babies are a royal pain in the ass, and not much fun over a 15 hour day. And if you have two kids or more below the age of three, it is not much fun at all. Being alone for most of that time without other adults makes it more stressful yet. Go three weeks in that situation, and, yes, you come close to going barking mad at times.

But....kids become much more independent and less hassle at the age of about four or five. Your role becomes presence in the home, to make sure no fires start or sibling street battles erupt.

Then comes school years for kids. At that point, the SAH gig is warm gravy. If some SAH claims that staying home when children are in full time school is taxing in any way at all, you will hear my harsh, bitter, contempt-filled laughter across the entire internet universe. Every day is @#%&! easier than Sunday for the parent at that point. Seriously.

(Oh, and before I get any smack about how my tune would be different if I did chores around the house, etc., don't bother. Trust me, I'm the OCD one doing the chores, while also working full-time in a profession. I kind of like housework, actually, so that is not really a problem.)

"There isn't an end of shift for a stay at home mom." You're on the clock the second your feet hit the floor. No I take that back, you're on call all night long, too.

For me, being a SAHM depends on your personal standards. Do I want to do 1000 things poorly or 100 things right? Do I take this job seriously? Yes. Some others don't. Bon bons, Oprah, and spending hubby's money faster than he can make it are not acceptable. I also want to be the person to raise my own kids. The physical workload is substantial if you want a reasonably clean home, clean clothes that fit, clean healthy kids with good grades and MANNERS, home cooked (and frugal) meals. For a family of 5, it's easily 40-50 hours manual mind-numbing labor. Throw in the x factors of the kids and you'll get derailed every 10 minutes without fail.

There are times when I hate it. The economic vulnerability can give you night terrors; realizing I have no current marketable skill beyond child care and housekeeping. My degree is 15 years old and I haven't earned a paycheck since my oldest was born. Nursing school is taking care of that. Other crazy factor: The kids can make you nutters, but that's their immaturity and it's MY JOB to get them past it.

This thread DOES remind me of a saying: "Being a stay-at-home-mom helps you realize why some animals eat their young."

For the short time that I was a stay at home mom, I'd say the hardest thing about it was the absolute mind-numbing boredom (others have mentioned the same thing, so details are not needed). I'm sure some women really love being around their kids 24 hours a day, but I was not one of them. Going grocery shopping by myself was the highlight of my week.

I think that a lot of SAHMs fill the boredom by overparenting; they make the job harder than it has to be with the constant games, crafts, books, outings, etc.

Spartee, I have shoveled horse crap working in a barn, worked retail, bartended, and managed a veterinary hospital (post college). None of them are cushy jobs. At one point post-divorce, I worked 3 jobs, starting at 7am and getting off at 11pm. All were easier than being home all day every day. A week or month or two while not working is not the same thing. That is like sending your kids to the grandparents for a week or two-just long enough to be fun and then they go home (or, back to daycare in your case). Even if they're sick.

I triplet mom I know recently sent out a blurb about how she thought she'd have all this time when they finally hit elementary school. She was planning on sailing lessons. Hasn't happened yet, she swears she's busier than before. Volunteering at the school (library, etc) feild trips, managing homework times 3 (even kinders frequently have an hour a night now), still doing the cleaning and shopping and medical/dental/cooking/etc.

Good SAHMs seem to have a different opinion of clean house than others. Do your baseboards get wiped down weekly? Your oven, fridge, washer and dryer scooted out and cleaned under? Ceiling fans dusted? Air intakes for ducts clean? Bookcases emptied and dusted? Interestingly enough, the # of hours that are spent housekeeping has not dropped from back when they did everything by hand.

We get no sick days (I have driven my kids to the Dr while holding a trash can in my lap for me to puke in) no vacation days (unless you do live near family who can/will take the kids for a weekend) no OT, no hour that we're not on duty. My husband does help a lot, he wanted to be a dad as much as I wanted kids, but it's still no where the same. He gets to listen to what HE wants in the car without kids yelling over it, he gets to potty without someone "helping", he gets lunches out with friends where he can actually talk. I never get more than a glass of wine, because what if the kids wake up burning with a fever? What if I have to make an ER run? I can't be drunk.

And kids can make you want to run shrieking into the street. It is your job to get them past that. You can't pass it off.

I have 2 4 year olds, a 2 year old, and am preggers, for what it's worth.

I was a stay-at-home dad for the three years after my daughter was born. My son was five years old.

People in general seem convinced that stay-at-home moms get a raw deal and work much harder than breadwinner dads. Having been a stay-at-home dad with two kids during the years when they need the most intensive of care, I can tell you that this is nonsense.

Yes, if a stay-at-home mom wants to work herself into a frenzy with obsessive cleaning and activity, she can make the job harder than that of the breadwinner and then turn around and resent her husband for not working as hard as she decides to work. However, if you're reasonable, the stay-at-home role isn't harder than the breadwinner role.

There's only one part of being a parent which I've ever genuinely disliked and that's forcing my son through his homework. Then again, every job has its downsides.

More importantly, you have to balance out the work with the reward. Those three years at home with my little girl were the greatest of my life, and she and I developed an exceptionally close bond which exists even now, despite the fact that (against my will) she has grown up.

Kids are only little for a little while, and it's important to enjoy them when they're that age. Too many men have to work long hours to support their families and don't get to spend enough time with their kids when they're little--I consider myself to have been exceptionally lucky to have had that time with my kids.

This is particularly true now that they're growing up--my son is a junior in high school and he doesn't want to spend time my wife or I, he wants to be with his friends. A few years ago I may have been "G-Dawg" but now in his eyes I'm just (sigh) "Loser G"...

I think it really depends on how many kids, their ages, and the mom's personality and standards.

I work from home, so technically I may not be a SAHM, but I will say that, for me, it seems easier than going to work at an outside job and having to please a boss, meet someone's else's imposed deadlines, etc.

My son is in college, and my daughter is in high school now, so basically I just have to make a healthy dinner, clean the house, do laundry, and run her around to events and appointments after school. It is certainly not as difficult as when my kids were younger, but even then, I felt that working outside the home and being a mom would've been MUCH harder.

Yet, I know SAHMs who put tremendous time into crafts and activities - not to mention signing their kids up for every team and after-school lesson, and they are truly exhausted at the end of the day.

But, to be totally honest and answer the question, Amy, that hardship is usually more self-imposed than a lot of SAHMs admit. If you're easygoing and not a perfectionist - if you can let your children develop some independence - then staying at home is generally easier than rushing out to a job every day, while also trying to be a good parent. I think those moms have it tougher.

"(I have driven my kids to the Dr while holding a trash can in my lap for me to puke in)"

Momof3, I'm laughing so hard I'm crying. My question is, did your pediatrician offer you the kindness of a quick once-over or did he ignore you? Ours is one of the great ones. He keeps an eye on the moms (unofficially of course) knowing full well if you're down, the kids won't be getting your 100%.

How do you feel about family vacations? I never understood why my mom was uptight while on vacation, I kept thinking sheesh! Why isn't she having any fun? Now I know. Vacations are a HELL of alot of work for a mom.

The more time saving devices one uses--such as washing machines, microwaves, etc.--the more time the person supposedly has. Unless that person is using that extra time for leisure, then it's a safe bet that person is using that time to do things he or she would not have done if it had not been for the time saving devices.

Interesting, though, that with the rise of time saving devices, the number of extracurricular activities parents run their children through has risen as well.

Amy, I hope to change your mind on this one. Being a SAHM is hard, but in different ways than going to work. Depending on what kind of mom you want to be.

I'm 26, and I don't have kids of my own, but I clearly remember what my mom went through. There were three of us kids, and Dad worked long hours. Her life resembles Momof3's the most.

She made a good majority of our clothes (up until late middle school, when wearing homemade clothes made you a pariah at school). She did the dishes, cooked three meals, and did LOTS of laundry. For anyone who thinks that machines doing the work makes it easier, I gotta say, laundry still takes forever. It is a time-consuming chore, at least I think so. (As for the dishwasher, I've never known a dishwasher to work without you basically washing the dishes by hand first). She also made our blankets, placemats, pillowcases, sheets, etc, etc. Anything that could be sewed was sewed at home, to save money. She also did a lot of the yardwork, ALL of the housework, and all the meal preparation.

In addition to taking care of just chores, she also had to run any errands my dad asked her to. So that means bank runs, groceries, dry cleaning, car checkups, odds and ends, and major purchases like cars and new appliances. She also had to be home for the bug guy, carpet cleaner, and any work repairman who needed to come over on a certain day. I don't think we went a month without one of those guys needing access to the house, especially with the Big Termite Deal of 1996.

Once the kids were home from school, it was time to do homework, which was a constant battle (and btw, as someone who works with children, I gotta say, homework is a helluva a lot harder now than it was back then), help us with whatever crisis came up, cart us around to friends' houses, and then she had to get dinner going. Plus, we were a family who didn't do extracurricular activities for the most part, so that doesn't factor in what a lot of parents do in taxi-ing the kids around.

Granted, my dad was no help with chores. And also, by the time each kid reached middle school, he/she was pretty much independent except for whatever crisis arose. But my younger brother was a needy kid with issues in school, so my mom probably spent half his middle school and high school career in the main office, fighting about his special education classes (did you know a special education degree is worthless and doesn't count as graduating from high school?).

She was there for us, and thus had no life of her own. It's a heckuva sacrifice.

I'd like to add that Momof3(almost 4!) has her hands full. I do not think her job, right now, is easier than working outside the home, but it likely will get easier as they enter school.

Yet, the fact that being a SAHM mom is generally easier doesn't make it less valuable.

I chose to stay home because it WAS easier, and I believed it would be better for my kids to have a more relaxed, attentive mom to come home to, rather than a harried, stressed-out one. And, fortunately, I had the financial flexibility to stay at home.

The problem with asking "which is tougher?" is that it misses that point. SAHMs shouldn't have to justify their choice on the grounds that they're working harder. The main consideration is what is best for their children.

Good point about laundry, CornerDemon. Washing machines reduce the amount of effort it takes to do one load of laundry. That's great if the amount of laundry one does remains static over time. But since the cost per load decreases, one is able to buy more clothes, which, of course, require more washing.

Convenience doesn't reduce overall workload. It allows one to do more work, to be more productive.

Jessica k said "When you work outside of the home, your job is done at the end of your shift."

Is this a joke Jessica? Because I can tell you by experience being married to a stay-at-home mom that when I got off my shift it was just the beginning. First, pick up the kids because "wife" is out with friends or she is in her massage therapy classes or is somewhere--just don't know where, then, take two other kids home, go pick "wife" up, play with kids for awhile, help make dinner, wash dishes, put kids in bed, try unsuccessfully to get "wife" to have some sex, go to bed frustrated. And all this while constantly hearing from wife how "I never do anything around the house and need to pick up the slack". I'm sorry, is that a pile of clothes on the floor and no bills paid, or am I delusional?

This thread is about SAHM, not single moms, so I will say this: I offered "wife" that if she would work all day I would stay home and do all the stay at home things. Not only did I get an emphatic "f**k you, but she tried to make me feel like if I stayed home I was not a "real man".

Who wouldn't want to stay home? Aw, poor me, I am underappreciated and unloved for all the work I do at home! So, I'll divorce my husband, throw my kids in daycare so I can work, spend two years working my as* off for absolutely no satisfaction, and then find another man to marry me so I can stay home anyway like I really wanted to in the first place...

sheesh!

> Don't forget laundry. That used to be at least a full day of hard, manual labor.

I'd bet not. Back in the day, a typical guy had maybe 4 shirts, tops... Only two of which his wife would let him wear. More time was spent mending, certainly.

Listen, even if being a SAH mom is "easy" in some way, it's still a tremendous blessing for the kids. Isn't that what we want?

Ok, I've read Momof3's comments and they pretty much mirror my own experiences. I have one gifted four yr old daughter. Having a gifted child is akin to having two or more. I have to constantly come up with things to challenge her. There are programs to help, but none that she qualifies for until she's in school.

My husband works, but I handle the money. I'm responsible for the bills, the savings, the shopping, etc.. He gets so much every pay period to do with what he wishes. I don't. What money I make from my business goes right back into the business.

I start my day making breakfast and end my day making a nighttime snack. I clean every weekday. I have a system: Mondays- I clean the downstairs living room and the upstairs living room. Tuesdays-I clean the bathrooms and the master bedroom. Wednesdays- I clean the kitchen (Scrubbing the floors too. MO3 is correct, no mop works!) and our daughters room. To her credit, she does pick it up every night and makes the bed, but she's too little to run the vacuum. Thursday- I do laundry all day. Now that our dryer is broke, this entails a run to the laundry mat when my husband gets home from work. I also clean the fridge, stove, cabinets, and I dust top to bottom. Fridays- I do spot cleaning and get my orders ready to go the post office. Sat & Sunday- I clean the carpets. With our animals, child and white carpet, it has to be cleaned once a week. I have a little steam cleaner that works miracles.
Everyday- I pick up the normal living mess and I clean after the animals. (Cats and one dog)
I also make some of our clothes and mend others. I maintain the inside of the house when things break. I've become quite the plumber/electrician.

In the summer, I maintain the outside with what needs done. I'm very fortunate to live in a condo. The HOA takes care of most of the outside work. When we had a house, I was the one mowing the lawn, tending the garden, etc..

All this is made doubly difficult by Lupus and Fybromyalgia. There are days where I am in so much pain, I can barely walk. BUT I do it anyway. I also don't drive because of the medication I have to take, so any Dr's appts have to be worked around my husbands schedule. I can get pretty creative with those.

I take pride in my home and my family. If I didn't stay at home, other people would be raising my child. She is my responsibility and I thank my lucky stars every day I can stay home w/ her. On the weekends, I go to crochet/knitting group for a few hours, so I can have some ME time. It's the only ME time I get.

When my husband gets home, he'll give me a break w/ the child or help out with the housework, if I need it. Sometimes he can't due to work being brought home, but I understand. His work pays our bills.

Imho, being a SAHM is harder than having a full time job. BUT I wouldn't trade it. What I am doing now is for the greater good of our marriage and our child.

The other thing to think on Amy, is what things the other parent can bring to the table... If the breadwinner works a job that is consuming but flexible, then [depends on the person, natch] there is more support for the SAHM all around. Momof3's comment is amusing, but if the hubby has a flexible job, then he can take the kids to the ER, or whatever. Tag team, as it were. I have done, certainly...

So, you might think that the stress level of the SAHM is also relative to what the partner does. Which is where again we are hammered by expectation. I was not expecting my ex to be a SAH... so after she was, I wasn't ready for the change in her expectations, and worries. That is another facet of the question... Once upon a time when virtually all moms stayed home, there was a pretty rigid idea of what was involved, and THAt changes expectations. Now the ideas are much less rigid, which is good, BUT, that leads to stress and uncertainy...

Mike-
Egads, where to start? I'd like to take your "wife" (is she "ex" now?) out back and whup her butt like one of the kids when they get out of line. How are your kids through all of this? I would have to wonder, since she seems to misconstrue "SAHM" to loosely translate as "receiving a lifetime of honor and care" for herself only. All in exchange for the act of whelping offspring. I'm ashamed for her, since we all know there's much more to it.

The reason some of us stay at home is because there's WORK TO DO. Not all of us; she probably didn't like that boring work part too much. The title used to be "homemaker", then that became deemed too Old Fashioned by the 80's generation, but that's what we do for our families. THe job is to make this structure of a house into something they want to come HOME to, since the kids don't know how to do it themselves yet, and our hubbies' hands are bruised from breaking rocks all day.

I'm sorry she didn't take it seriously, and took the family down in her selfishness.

All of the above said and well, if you have children, it is much easier raising them if you're not also chained to a job and torn between your obligations to both. However, I really don't think it's the ideal it seems at first glance and not just because it's not worth being financially dependent on your partner, putting your own career and life on hold.

You put yourself on hold for 18 years at least. In 18 years, you find yourself wondering where you went to. I'm willing to bet those are the types of moms that nag for grandbabies. They just don't know what else to do with themself.

I think the stay at home task for either Mom or Dad is way too all consuming and, ideally, should be shared. Not just for the sake of parental sanity but so each parent develops a close, nurturing relationship with the child(ren). Mom needs to be a more rounded individual than a maid/nanny/nurse and Dad needs to be more than an ATM/commander in chief/heavy lifter.

And the kids themselves should be out and about in the world, discovering and getting to know all kinds of people, not just Mommy and Daddy. Yes, from an early age. Day care does that for them where SAH cannot. It may be day care's one advantage (though good day cares also have excellent educational advantages that just can not be managed on a micro basis at home) but it is a good one.

"he gets to potty without someone "helping", "

I've heard this from a lot of parents and always been curious. Why don't y'all just lock the door?

Why not lock the door?

Because then they learn to pick locks. No joke. In my house, they just get a Q-Tip, peel off the cotton, jam it in the little hole in the nob and VOILA!!! What's bad is when they do it to Grandpa who's in town for a visit. Damn boundary issues. The three year old learned how to do this so that she can get to her sister's Nintendo DS while the ten year old's at school.

(other) mike,

She is now my ex, yes. I got tired of doing everything myself. I know not all SAHM's are like that, but she was an entitled little nightmare. Thank god we had no kids (both had kids from previous marriage).

Now, I am a single dad, raising my son by myself (his mom moved to NC). What is up with this generation of women? Anyway, now I'm dating a nice student from Paraguay and she loves kids (and the potential green card no doubt)

Because then they learn to pick locks. No joke. In my house, they just get a Q-Tip, peel off the cotton, jam it in the little hole in the nob and VOILA!!!

Um, sorry, but don't you have rules?

P Jo - I don't have kids but spent many a years nannying and babysitting (there's a difference!) and have had many kids so generously try to keep my company in the bathroom. Not only was I afraid of potentially being arrested or something, but it was annoying as all hell.

If I was in the bathroom showering for more than 2.34 minutes (during an overnight job) the kids would either start trying to kill each other off or bang on the door asking me when I'd be done.

Yes, you can lock the door. But they will still try to talk to you through it. And ask "are you almost done?" ten times. It's also impossible to hide from kids. I've tried that b/c towards the end of a one-week gig the 4 minutes of peace I find in an obscure corner of the house is all the keeps me from turning into an alkie.

"Because then they learn to pick locks. "

Ah!! YES! Way too funny. I am guilty of this one. My super hard working mother's escape from us was a bath every couple of nights. When I was a little kid I'd pick the bathroom lock if I felt she was ignoring me for too long (ugh - how awful was I?!). My sister and I would then bust into the bathroom and bug the shit out of the poor woman.

It's fitting that kids don't let me pee in peace now. Bad bathroom karma.

Amy,

Yes, you can have rules. You can have all the rules you want. Getting the child to obey the rules is a different story.
There are various punishments for breaking the rules, but the rules have already been broken. The lock has been picked and your visit to the bathroom has been interrupted.
My daughter doesn't bother me in the bathroom, but she does other things to break the rules. All kids do it. They excel at testing the boundaries.:)

How do SAHMs manage the issue of money? I remember as a kid my mother getting an allowance from my father, and it made me feel bad for her, like she was subordinate to my father. It seems that if both parents have agreed on the division of labor, then both should have equal access to the checkbook unless one is ridiculously irresponsible.

I've also heard plenty of working fathers make veiled insults about their wives' SAH status, even when both of them agreed that it was best for their families. Have you encountered any bitterness?

"I've heard this from a lot of parents and always been curious. Why don't y'all just lock the door?"

DO you know what 2 four year olds can and will do during the 2 unsupervised minutes it takes to pee? It would take the entire rest of the day to set things right. IF someone wasn't hurt. And I have "good" kids.

Amy, your rules comment really just can't be explained to a nonkids person. Of course there are rules. You pick the most important and let the rest go, when they're 4. They're not trainees in boot camp for heaven's sake.

Juliana, the best comment on vacations came from another SAHM of mine: trips with the kids aren't vacation. They're a family trip. Vacations are with no kids. She can afford those. We unfortunately can't afford much of either :(

Yes, some parents make their life annoyingly more difficult with the extracurriculars and projects. But you can not expect a 4 year old to entertain themselves for 12 hours. There have to be activities. My kids do some age appropriate chores too. While I know this is best in the long run, in the short run it's just that much more work for me. Some days I feel I am being helped to death.

Well my mom sure made it *look* easy.

Dad was a pilot, so mom would be left with me and my sister and the dogs for three or four days at a time. She did all the usual stuff, cooking, cleaning, landscaping, child wrangling, shopping, bill paying, etc. She also homeschooled me and my sister. My sister had some pretty severe dyslexia and I was pretty special myself (today I'd have probably been diagnosed with Aspergers). Mom spent a lot of time on our schooling in and out of the "classroom." And of course when sister and I were done for the day she'd still be working on the next day's lessons.

It was probably a hell of a lot harder than when she went back to work, but I know she thoroughly enjoyed it and found it fulfilling.

DO you know what 2 four year olds can and will do during the 2 unsupervised minutes it takes to pee? It would take the entire rest of the day to set things right. IF someone wasn't hurt. And I have "good" kids.

Amy, your rules comment really just can't be explained to a nonkids person.

The comment was made about kids breaking in on Grandpa.

And I understand kids just fine. You don't have to have them to understand giving them boundaries. There's a real difference in the behavior of kids here and in France. The difference is, in general, that kids here misbehave without consequences, and that they are expected to barely meet the lowest of expectations. I had very strict parents and it was clear there were consequences for behaving badly. We just didn't.

mike, your ex should've read Dr. Laura.

As for the lock picking: You might consider a slide-bolt or one of those hook-and-eye locks, placed high enough that the little ones can't reach...

Monica,

My husband does not hold any resentment towards me. Why should he? He comes home to a clean house, a cooked meal, a happy child, and various other things.
He used to stay at home, but it got to the point where he could earn more money than I, so we switched.
He knows how hard I work daily, so he doesn't begrudge me.
As for getting an allowance, it's the other way around. I handle all the money. I'm simply better at it than he. This was a mutual decision. (His idea, actually.) He gets an "allowance" every pay period to do w/ what he wishes. (Video games, latest computer stuff, or some other toy.)
I view the rest of the money as ours and if I need something, I'll buy it. (W/ cash; we don't have credit cards.) Anything over a hundred bucks gets run by him or vise verso.
He will usually say yes. :)

"Have you encountered any bitterness?"

Not that I've noticed. We both wanted kids. He wants lots. The number is up to me as I have to birth them. Whether I work or not is up to me although he loves that I am so dedicated to the kids and family. As he says, he's be getting up and going to work every day, married or no, kids or no. So it's no difference to him.

"If I was in the bathroom showering for more than 2.34 minutes (during an overnight job) the kids would either start trying to kill each other off or bang on the door asking me when I'd be done.
Yes, you can lock the door. But they will still try to talk to you through it. And ask "are you almost done?" ten times."

Okay, now I vaguely remember doing this as a kid. My mother was furious, my dad beat my ass when he got home, and I never did it again. By "beat my ass" I mean a hard spanking with a stretch of hot wheels racetrack. No we certainly did not bother my mom when she was in the bathroom again. Granted you can't do that when you're a nanny.

"Of course there are rules. You pick the most important and let the rest go, when they're 4. They're not trainees in boot camp for heaven's sake."

That's clearly not the way my parents viewed things. To their way of thinking, a rule was a rule, and there was no ranking, they were all equally there to be obeyed. They did not "pick" battles, they fought every last one. My parents were pretty old-school, and are in their late 60's now. If I had a nickel for every time I heard "spare the rod and spoil the child" quoted at me, I wouldn't have to work! On the other hand, at least my parents got to use the bathroom in peace.

The damage kids can do while you're preoccupied- we call those Random Acts of Silence.

The kids know better now, it took awhile to break them of that particular little bathroom trick. I think my Dad comes to visit just to see me put through hell by my kids like I did to him. One of the perks of grandparenthood.

We have lots of boundaries, but they'll try 'em every now and then, it's important to keep your stamina up to yank a knot in their tail consistently every time and not letting them wear you down. I'm hoping to strike a balance between good direction, not breaking their spirits in seeking robotic obedience, equipping them with enough self-esteem to stand up for themselves when I'm not around.

I find it very sad, but revealing, that in all of the comments so far, only one person --a SAH dad -- mentions the joy and emotional bonding that comes from being with your child, which so much ameliorates the "drudgery" of providing care. Only one woman acknowledges that her mother found being a SAHM fulfilling, and none mention it for themselves. Ladies, what are we to think?

Maybe this is an exercise in jumping on the "who can complain the most/loudest" bandwagon, but if your kids don't bring you joy, why have them? (From the comments, it appears that most folks would just as soon have acne as children.)

Anyone who can bathe their own baby (even if it's screaming in protest), or read him a bedtime story, or even change her diaper, and consider it "work," has a warped view of the meaning of life, in my opinion.

But I forget. We're supposed to look at everything through the "what about poor ME, ME, ME?" prism, these days. Viewed that way, considering the parenting of your own baby to be no different from cramming to get that sales report in by the end of the day makes sense. (Except the sales report never says, with a wet graham cracker kiss and a hug, "I love you, Mommy!)

Interestingly enough, the # of hours that are spent housekeeping has not dropped from back when they did everything by hand.

That's because of Parkinson's Law.

If you are doing the basics, instead of trying to be SuperMom (or SuperDad), it really is not a massive amount of work, but for many people, there is no such thing as "good enough", their standard of cleanliness for their house is about the same as the ISO Class 5 standard for a clean room. For example:

I keep my house clean. ANd that does not involve cleaning once a week. It's a daily thing. Vacuum daily, dust every few days, get down on hands and knees and scrub the floor with a rag and bucket of soapy water every few days (because no mop really works). Steam mop in between.

cleant he kitchen (dishes in washer,counters washed down, floor swept, food put away) 3 times a day.

Do your baseboards get wiped down weekly? Your oven, fridge, washer and dryer scooted out and cleaned under? Ceiling fans dusted? Air intakes for ducts clean? Bookcases emptied and dusted?

Forego the twice weekly penance of getting down on hands and knees to scrub the floor with a rag and bucket and instead buy a swiffer wet jet and the swiffer duster thingies. Assuming normal house size (and preferably no dogs), a couple hours a day of dusting, mopping, vacuuming is more than adequate. You don't need to vacuum every square inch of floor every day, or even every week. You don't need to dust every horizontal surface daily. You don't need to move the frig and get the dust bunnies once a week. (I haven't done so in 3 years, and I'm not dead yet!) You don't need to sweep your kitchen floor 3 times a day. You aren't making microprocessors; you don't need to have ambient air with less than 5ppm of dust particles larger than 5 microns. Having your children live in an overly sterile environment is actually bad for them, not good. You CAN be too clean.

As Glenn Sacks said :

Yes, if a stay-at-home mom wants to work herself into a frenzy with obsessive cleaning and activity, she can make the job harder than that of the breadwinner and then turn around and resent her husband for not working as hard as she decides to work. However, if you're reasonable, the stay-at-home role isn't harder than the breadwinner role.

If being a stay at home parent is a back-breaking grind, it's because you've made it that way, or your last name is Gosselin.

My wife and I worked opposite days of the week for about a year and half while my daughter was 2.5-4. She had to go to daycare once a week. My time home with my daughter were my days off, and they felt like days off. 2-3 hours a day of household cleaning was more than enough to keep the house clean. It isn't the workload, it is the lack of mental stimulation and the fact that sometimes your child can feel like a ball and chain. If that is what you deal with day after day after day, THAT is the issue, not the workload. I think that points up the wisdom of how my mother's generation dealt with parenting: "Go outside and play. Be home before dark." My "structured play" when I was 5 was playing marbles with the other kids of the neighborhood. Heck, I remember when I was 3 I had the run of my neighborhood. Of course, parents who do that sort of thing now would generally face extreme social approbrium, assuming CPS didn't come to take their child away.

"Ladies, what are we to think?"

Um, maybe that it sucks? For me to see changing a diaper as anything other than "work" (and SMELLY work, at that!) I'd have to have not only a prescription-strength pair of rose-colored glasses but a closet full of hallucinogenics.

Jay R,

That probably comes from the fact that Amy asked how much work is involved, and whether you want to acknowledge it or not, taking care of another human is work. I took care of both of my elderly parents for a time, and no matter how much I love them, it was difficult and exhausting.

I see it the way Glenn and MikeMangum do above. It's extraordinarily tedious to be around a child all the time. We raise children all wrong in this society, in my estimation, in that we're each these pocketed nuclear families instead of having children band together for mixed age play with one parent in charge of a bunch of kids and the other parents off to do their thing. There's more of this sort of thing but not nearly enough. I don't understand why stay-at-home parents who are in anguish about being around a kid all the time don't do this sort of thing on a regular arrangement. Some do, but there's a whole lot of upset above that seems unresolved.

Changing a poopy diaper makes me gag uncontrollably. I'm hoping that this passes after you change the 1000th diaper or so. But I'm in no hurry. I've been covered in purple throw up before, bitten, hit, yelled at, hair pulled, etc. enough times by people's children to be in a hurry.

For those of us who enjoy it, we probably assume it goes without saying. There's no way to describe the many rewards - though the "wet graham cracker kiss" is a good start.

But I must say I never had kids break in on me in the bathroom. That just wouldn't have been allowed...unlocking the door?!

I believe parents have the right to privacy - when my door is locked, my kids knock. Period. Even when they were four. If you start that rule early enough, and stick to your guns, there's no problem.

Another good rule to begin with toddlers: always stay in your seat in restaurants. We made sure our kids didn't get up and run all around bothering other customers, and as a result, we could always take them out to dinner (and receive compliments on their behavior).

Well yeah Pirate Jo, but CPS would take you away from your parents now. Unallowed to smack a kid with anything. I got worn out too as a kid.

Jay R, in my first post I said, and I direct quote "I love it, I chose it, but it ain't easy."

I too don't want to raise robotic obeyers. My children behave very well, more so when we're out because that's more important. I've yet to fail to get compliments on them when we go places. Rigid bootcamp parents are sort of the opposite of helicopter parents, in that they bark orders and expect obeyal. Neither type parent is great. There's a happy medium.

Mike Mangum, I really do have to do that cleaning. We have 5 soon to be 6 people in less than 1200 sq ft. That sort of concentration of filth requires daily cleaning. And since my kids don't get helicoptered, keeping a nice house is part of my job. Oh, and nastiness is just a thing with me, like handwashing with OCD people.

I just washed 3 carseat covers and hosed down the plastic parts, in 88 degree weather (love texas!). And WOW did it need doing. Gross!

Momof3,

Sorry I didn't notice your comment. No offense, I hope. :)

"I love it." Exactly. When you do something out of love for someone you love, it should not be considered "work," even if it is not always easy or pleasant. "Work" is what you do for money so that you can live. Living is doing for others, out of love, what no one could pay you to do. It is also what brings you love in return.

Keep up the good "mommying"!

You can't fire your kids. It's not that hard, but the repetition gets old, and they don't play with a ball of string at your feet, like kittens.

Your question was "how hard is it?" -- but I say, what does it matter how "hard" it is. The real question is, how important is it? And I'd have to say that it incredibly important for children to have a SAHM, whenever possible. Not to entertain them, not to hover about them, but to create a healthy and loving learning space.

[I believe this can be accomplished through quality childcare, but I believe that true quality childcare is rare]

Whoa, I have too many thoughts on this to even start.

I don't understand why stay-at-home parents who are in anguish about being around a kid all the time don't do this sort of thing on a regular arrangement. Some do, but there's a whole lot of upset above that seems unresolved.

Amy, you are underestimating how powerful social dissapproval can be, how quickly people are to judge, and how high the bar has moved for what is considered acceptable parenting. Things that my mother (and all the mothers of my childhood friends) did when I was child that were considered ordinary are now cause for a visit from CPS and potentially losing your children. Literally. You can't turn your 7 year old out at noon to play and tell them not to leave city limits and be home before it gets dark.

You have to actively watch them otherwise you are neglecting them, which of course means that kids never get the chance to develop independence the way previous generations could.

from http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=051706C
Parenting was always hard work, of course. But aside from the economic payoffs, parents used to get a lot of social benefits, too. But in recent decades, a collection of parenting "experts" and safety-fascist types have extinguished some of the benefits while raising the costs, to the point where what's amazing isn't that people are having fewer kids, but that people are having kids at all.

This occurred to me recently while reading Caitlin Flanagan's new book, To Hell with All That: Loving and Loathing Our Inner Housewife. Flanagan's book is mostly a comparison of her own housewifely and maternal life with that of her mother, and one thing that struck me is how much of what counted as acceptable -- or even exemplary -- parenting a generation ago would now be considered abuse and neglect.

...

Nowadays, of course, children don't get the same treatment. (I have heard repeatedly that my state's Department of Children's Services considers it neglect to leave a nine-year-old alone in the house for any time at all). Today's middle-class kids are always under the adult eye. It's not clear that the kids are better off for all this supervision -- and they're certainly fatter, perhaps because they get around less outside -- but the burden on parents is much, much higher. And it's exacted in a million tiny yet irritating other ways. Some are worthwhile -- car seats, for example, are probably a net gain in safety -- but even there the cost is high: I heard a radio host in Knoxville making fun of SUVs and minivans: When he was a kid, he boasted, his parents took their five children cross-country in an Impala sedan. Nowadays, you'd never make it without being cited for neglect. And you can't get five kids in a sedan if they all have to have car seats, which these days they seem to require until they're 18.

Likewise, Flanagan notes the pressure to take children for a seemingly endless array of after-school activities, most of which require parental chauffering. Add to this the increasing amount of parental responsibility for things their children do wrong, coupled with steady legal diminution of parental authority (Flanagan mentions an incident in which Caroline Kennedy was spanked for running off and notes that today it might result in jail time -- an exaggeration, perhaps, but not by much.) You're responsible for your kids in ways previous generations weren't, but your ability to discipline them is much reduced, and as my wife (a forensic psychologist) notes, the bad kids know that they can cow most adults by threatening to call 911 and make a bogus abuse charge. And forget disciplining your child, even with a harsh word, in a public place: At the very least, if you do you'll be looked on not as a virtuous parent helping to preserve the social fabric, but as that worst of all sinners in contemporary American culture: a meanie. And schools, anxious for parental "involvement," place far more demands on parents than they did when I was a kid.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-462091/How-children-lost-right-roam-generations.html

Click the link and look at the map of the childhood roaming range of 4 generations. That one map has big implications.

Amen Mike! Look a the hell Lenore Skenazy caught for letting her 9 year old son ride home on the New York City subway and bus by himself. She didn't do it out of carelessness, but rather a well-thought out exercise to help him grow in independence.

Many a brick was shat the day that story came out....

As someone who grew up in a family that took in foster kids, I'll say that you have to screw up on a spectacular level to lose your kids to CPS. If someone files a complaint, they may come around, but the state is all about keeping bio families together, even when it's tragically stupid to do so. But it does seem that even the fear of losing your kids could make parenting more stressful than it was for our parents.

Doable only if you have other likeminded (and somewhat trustworthy) parents nearby. Me, here, being whitey, I am not spoken to and not to be trusted. I have enough kids they get to play together enough.

Those of you who DON'T have children.....you have NO idea what you are talking about!! Staying at home is the longest slowest days of your life. Even when you don't micromanage.....the clock moves very slowly as you crave adult time. Then when you see these neurotic over-mothering parents you wonder if you are being a shitty parent. When you have that much responsiblity, you start to question your parenting ability.

That being said....it is complicated. I adore my children. They are funny and fun and great. It is just a really hard job raising them.

By the way, I think you can work part time and be with the kids part time. You have to have a happy mommy.

The work of being a SAHM itself is not difficult. The difficult part is having to do it 24/7/365/18 and never getting a break. Once you get past the baby stage and can sleep at night again, it ceases to be a ton of work, and it gets easier still when they go off to school.

It is more difficult, though, if your kids have special needs. Two of mine have multiple food allergies, so I have to make all kinds of stuff from scratch-- no shortcuts for me, I can't even buy doughnuts or cookies at the store. If I want them, I have to make them. My other two kids have Asperger's Syndrome (on the autism spectrum) and while one of them goes to school, the other is homeschooled. THAT is the big time- and energy-sucker of my day. I will be so glad when the new charter school opens and he can go melt down somewhere else when someone else asks him to write in complete sentences. (I wouldn't have homeschooled him, except our local public school made it clear they weren't capable of dealing with any out-of-the-ordinary child.) On top of that, my husband is also an Aspie who can barely get through his workday, and I have to look after him too. Basically I singlehandedly run a group home for Asperger's Syndrome.

So while I technically have four kids, the work is about like having eight.

"...the wisdom of how my mother's generation dealt with parenting: "Go outside and play. Be home before dark." My "structured play" when I was 5 was playing marbles with the other kids of the neighborhood. Heck, I remember when I was 3 I had the run of my neighborhood. Of course, parents who do that sort of thing now would generally face extreme social approbrium, assuming CPS didn't come to take their child away."

Two links that may be of interest. First, see what has changed for kids in four generations.

Then there is a group with a really great concept - unfortunately, they don't seem to be making much headway with it. Have a look at Free Range Kids.

Wacky Hermit, my son has Aspergers too. It does get better. I feel for you. Hang in there!

Really, these stories demonstrate that there is no easy answer to this question because there are too many variables. A SAHMs life can be VERY difficult depending on the needs of her particular children, their personalities (whether rebellious or compliant), the dynamic between them (do the siblings play well together or constantly fight?) and none of us get to pick that. It's the luck of the draw.

In contrast, a woman at work can have a pretty easy job. Maybe she's got a nice boss who lets her have long lunch breaks and very few taxing responsibilities. You couldn't compare her day to that of Wacky Hermit's or Momof3.

Is staying at home as tough as being an air traffic controller...or a neurosurgeon? Certainly not, in most cases. Is it tougher than being a receptionist? I would say so.

Therefore, you simply can't say being a SAHM is "not that tough". Compared to what?

I don't personally feel that it is grueling work, but that's because I enjoy it. It may be 10 times tougher for someone who finds the tasks monotonous or has special needs children.

The work itself is basically that of being a maid, nurse, cook, and teacher...all combined. Oh, and even though you're dead tired, be ready to wow your husband in bed, so he won't resent that you're home all day "doing nothing". In that sense, there's an element of prostitution too (at least in my case).

Do you ladies have any advice on the following?

I live in an exurban community w/ a lot of SAHM's. Most of these ladies are in their early 30's and were somewhat established before having kids (i.e. adult job, living independently).

You'll notice a pattern of, what seems like, psychological regression among many of them. I'd guess 60%, based on my very limited sampling, demonstrate greater or lesser degrees of this. Sometimes it's pretty severe, and the woman starts demonstrating the sorts of behavior you'd expect of a 12 or 13 year old.

I've seen it really take a toll on marriages, to the point of leading to break-ups. It's one of the reasons that I'm wary of having kids - I don't want to lose my wife to this.

Do you recognize what I'm describing, and if so, what can you do to deal with it?

"what can you do to deal with it?"

Push, pull, or drag your wife out of the house sans kids to adult gatherings. Be as supportive as possible for her to get away at least once a week for a few hours. Show the kids that mom is a grown up with a persona outside them as well.

Moms groups don't count- all you do is sit around and talk about our kids and how to be better moms. My husband is in charge two nights a week while I'm at school. My classes have nothing to do with kids, no one really talks about their kids unless it's health related.

If she starts calling you Daddy outside of referencing you to the kids, and seriously asking you for her allowance, manipulating you or throwing temper tantrums, you're in one hell of a mess. I think it's called Infantilization? I see that quite frequently with the moms at my kids' school. It gets them a new Lexus every three years, monthly shopping trips to Chicago, and new boobs, lips and foreheads. It obviously works for some guys but that's just damn creepy to me.

Could you be a little more specific, Martin? What exactly are these behaviors?

I don't see any of that, and I've headed some moms groups/homeschooling groups through the years. The women tend to be highly competent and not at all "regressed." Being a mom and handling those challenges tends to make women stronger and more self-confident in my observations.

However, in the south, where I'm from originally, there does tend to be some women, especially older generations, who revert to "little girl" or coquetish behavior with men....thinking it's somehow more attractive. My 75 yr old mom sometimes calls my stepdad, "Dad-ums" and will use baby talk with him. Drives me and my kids crazy!

I'm the oldest of three kids, and we're all within four years of each other. So when my sister was born, my parents had three kids under 5, and neither of them worked until I went to school. I'd always thought this was a planned thing, but it turns out my dad was going crazy (and he loved spending time with us! he's not an absent dad!) and so my mom changed her plans and stayed home as well. I'm always impressed that they pulled this off; my mom is a teacher and was our main source of income, so it's not like we ever had a lot of money. We were good kids, my parents are not micromanagers, so yeah, I think staying at home with your kids is hard no matter what. My parents have no regrets though, they have three smart, happy, successful kids who love them and respect them.

Amy, it's interesting that you say you want to be fair, and to please tell you what's really that hard about staying home with your kids, but then you're dismissing the challenges people are bringing up. Rules, no micromanaging, and mixed age play, it's just that easy, right? It sounds like your mind is already made up when it comes to this . . .

LS the behavior that I'm referring to isn't related to a woman's competence as a mother, it has more to do with the way that she relates to other adults, and her husband specifically.

And I really don't want to get into specific examples, as I suspect that they'll be misinterpreted as criticisms of mothers generally. Let's just say that by regression, I mean behavior that's indicative of a someone less psychologically mature than they should be.

Martin, I just can't imagine why a woman would become more childish after assuming the role of mother. I, for one, was much more childish beforehand. Being responsible for the well-being of young children really makes you grow up fast...at least it should.

Now, when my kids were little, I would occasionally catch myself cutting up my husband's food into tiny bite-size pieces for him. lol I think a lot of moms have done things like that, but it's not a sign of immaturity, just the habits that form when you spend all day with toddlers.

So, I agree that some of these moms may need to dress up and go out for some adult time. If they're regressing, they should be reminded that they are independent women, not just playmates for their children.

Anyway, you shouldn't be afraid to have kids with your wife because of this. I think it's rare, and even if it does occur, you should be able to fix it by encouraging her to take some time away from the kids.

I've also noticed that people don't always become more mature after kids. Sometimes kids make people grow up, but not always. With a few of the people I know, their world got smaller after they had kids (less interaction with the outside world, more intense focus on their needs and the needs of their children). When that happened, they seemed to get smaller, too, psychologically.

Please don't take this as a criticism of SAHMs. I know plenty of people this didn't happen to, and I've also seen some spectacularly immature behavior from working moms.

Really??? Weekly wipedown of baseboards? Outside of bathrooms with showers, I always thought that was a decadely chore. That and cleaning the dustbunnies from under major appliances. I guess THAT explains why my house is never magazine-ready photogenic unlike others I've been in.

All comments aside - I just returned to work after having and staying home with twins for 3 months. My brain was turning to mush - I KNOW that we all appreciate each other much more that mommy is out in the real world and the babies are at daycare getting their much needed stimulation. I couldn't tell you what day it was or who ate last for that matter.

Laundry? Cleaning? I have a lot more time to do it now that I am not so burned out. I enjoy my job and now I am free to come home from work and enjoy all the kids - old and new! I also feel like I have more to contribute to a conversation than diapers, bottles and sleep schedules.

I LOVE my kids I have 2 older, 2 babies and 2 "bonuschildren" - but a stay at home mom I am not.

Its been a while since we considered these options, but our carpet cleaning business has been doing well ever since. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!