Hey Goddess - happy Purim!

Hey, Ben-David - I'm an atheist! But, thanks for dropping by! I'll do my best to have a happy Tuesday.

I always thought women's porn was the day time soaps

maybe you should try to find out what they are reading instead of what they are watching... many of my femme friends read and write the stuff as a type of fanfiction + whatever can be had professionally... much of it is not hetro even though the women are... and there is a burgeoning industry in graphic novels and Manga that is specifically for this. I know a group of women that often discuss similar questions about anime, and manga, I can put you in touch with if that is of interest...

perhaps men and women get their needs met different ways since our brains are wired a bit different. One of the most amusing convos. I've had is with women who insist that their written stuff ISN'T pr0n because it isn't 'visual expoitation'... My reply:"so in your imagination, it isn't visual?" But it is a facinating topic... as seen from the other side of the ocean...

I can't tell the difference between what is "regular" man porn & "women's" porn. I don't buy it, I just watch what the BF brings home.

I don't want plots or characters. It's not story hour, I know why I'm here, let's just get to the viewing. I don't like all the kissy stuff at the beginnings of some. Mostly because they don't do a very good kissing job. Plus it annoys me to see other people's tongues, like some people hate feet.

All the close ups are a little much. If they could use a wider angle, that might be better.

Women on women is definitely hott to watch. But only if they are into it. None of that tip of the tongue, not quite touching anything, bs.

I don't like women in a sexual way, in real life. I'm not interested in being with women at all.

But in porn, I like women doing each other, or them doing themselves. Somehow it is more ... believable? that they are having a good time. Better than seeing her get railed by some oafish, overtanned, waxed, neanderthal browed dude.

Reading erotica is rather interesting too, it's just harder to hold the book up, than to scan a dvd, with one hand. I've been turned on reading short stories of things I'm definitely into. Like submisson or torture/dnager or fisting. As a story, a fantasy scenario it can be interesting.

Some days I want a "new" video, but I'm mostly content to watch the same few videos that "do it for me." BF is definitely more into variety, while there are a few he'll watch over & over. I suspect that is because those are the few I expressed interest in.

I'd only care if he was spending too much $$$ on porn. I don't care about variety, that's fine. Get your appetite anywhere, as long as you eat at home.

I watch maybe 3 times a week, by myself.

I don't watch porn for women. I'll watch regular porn with Husband; we go to the porn store once or twice a year. We make a point of only buying the good, expensive kind with the hot girls. (No seveties bush, or "amature," or skanky cracked-out-looking white girl gets gang banged-type stuff for us.)

Since you mentioned strip clubs, I have to say I've never been to one with boys dancing. What a waste! I'll go to a mens' club, though. A lap dance from a hot chick is WAY sexier than some oiled-up gay boy waving his weenie in my face. (No, I'm not "in" to chicks, either.)

Harlequin romances and romances in general are porn for women - complete with the objectification of men. Jane Austen is a great example; her male characters are all 2D cardboard cutouts - and she is no less an extraordinary artist for being a pornographer.

I'd rather be a participant than an observer! o.O

That said, I'm not into women, but I've seen a couple, three videos of BF's that were done pretty well and got me hot. But we don't regularly watch together, we just "do" it ourselves. Been to the Gold Club in New Orleans, that was interesting. Went once to an "All Male Revue" with a buncha girls for one's 40th birthday. Some of the guys were exceedingly hot, others, not so much. It was a hoot, though. But I can take it or leave it. I don't feel the need for "viewing"
on a regular basis.

Reading the books is much more stimulating than watching porn (for me, a female). That may be because the only type of porn movie you can buy in Oklahoma are the psuedo porn types (HBO version), only boobs and the like. It was very dissapointing to get home and find out I spent 30 bucks to watch some chick grope herself for 30 minutes. Friggin conservatives.... Anywho, the IDEA of watching a graphic porn is exciting to me though.

I just came back from a comic book convention, the first one I've been to in about 5 years. While I was away there was a huge surge in a type of manga called "yaoi." Apparently it's guy-on-guy action but written for a female audience. It's huge with the late-teen female fan set apparently.

And look at all the female authors of slash (gay) fanfiction. And it's all guy-on-guy. (And almost all painful to read.)

There's porn for women, but it's not videos and glossy magazines.

Amy, I don't know the answers to any of your questions, but I will help you write the research proposal....

I wish I found porn interesting, since so many of my friends (male and female) like it. I end up feeling kind of sorry for the "actors," like I've walked in on something I shouldn't have. Of course, that could be my Catholic-girl upbringing and the fact that I've only ever seen shitty porn.

I find women's bodies more aesthetically pleasing than men's, so I might like good lesbian porn if I ever came across it. Once upon a time, I thought I could be bi, but I realized that I was attracted to fantasy women -- on TV, in the movies -- and not to any women I'd ever met in real life.

Being rather antiporn in my personal feelings, I don't watch, not even with DH. I have seen plenty in the past though. All pretty crappily done, really. You've seen one, you're really seen them all. Vivid video (I think) does some where the actors themselves have the cameras and direct, that's a bit more decent. I also saw one Christy taylor one where it was an all girls slumber party that seemed like they really got off.

I like written erotica. Its not exploiting, as in 98% of the women in it weren't sexually abused as kids or on drugs. Maybe it's not so much porn I'm against as the typical porn industry, which attracts and exploits some really screwed up women in general. PLus the dudes tend to be ugly.

I've been to male and female strip clubs, and one place that advertises "live sex acts (it was a crock) in New Orleans. Neither does much for me, although the social aspect can be fun. There was one guy, I'm sure gay, at Labares in houston that really got me going though....I do think as a rule women just aren't as visually turned on.

Unfaithful (the Dianle lane movie) is pretty great porn for women.

I had a scout offer me $500 an hour to do a girl/girl movie. I turned it down, although I darn sure could have used the money. Ahh, college.

Think of Harlequin romances, which sell to women (along with chocolates). But - when you read these books - there are DETAILED visual descriptions of the man's eyes and face. Eye color, expression, the works. That's how I know that a character is a person of interest... so there IS visual porn for women, in a way.

Soaps, yes, perhaps women are turned on by emotional drama rather than heaving cherry-tipped mounds?

Mainstream porn does nothing for me. I might be into gay porn just out of fascination. I might also like stuff with freaks or odd tpes having sex in strange ways, if I felt their participation was truly voluntary. I'm a 44yo F, het.

Eeeek - TYPO!

stories of things I'm definitely (not) into. Like submisson or torture/danger or fisting. As a story, a fantasy scenario it can be interesting.

... NOT INTO ... I'm Not definitely into the things listed!

OK, better now.

~~~

I watch porn alone, because I have a hard time holding a sexual fantasy. I can sit all day & think about things, places I'd like to go, things I'd like to do. But not in a sexual sense.

I can only do one or the other, masturbate or fantasize. I can't get too involved in either, if I try to have them together.

As a couple, we put porn on in the background during sex, for atmosphere I guess. Regular movies are too distracting, all that talking. Music works too, but it can be harder to have a consistent mood, the tempo can change song to song. Don't own any Barry White. Instead White Zombie is something I would consider "sexy" music.

Also, women who READ sexy novels seem to be a case in point -- they don't need the visuals like men do. How many guys do you know who read sexy novels when they can just hop on some porn site and whack off?

I did before I discovered the internet

Goddess - The Book of Esther is the only book in the Jewish Bible that doesn't mention G-d's name.

So you can enjoy Purim as a good vs. evil story /general celebration of Jewish survival - whether or not you believe the Jews have a covenant with the (a) Divinity.

And Israel puts out some great wines...

I had a scout offer me $500 an hour to do a girl/girl movie. I turned it down, although I darn sure could have used the money. Ahh, college.

Wow, they have merit badges for that now?

Took an informal poll at work today on this issue. Married, single, boyfriended and boyfriendless we all agreed on several things: most video porn is crap, Harlequin romances and soaps are crap. But we all liked this letter from last week's newspaper (for me personally its the cooking and the pedicures):

*Dear Miss Lonelyhearts

I worship and serve my Mistress as a male submissive and I love my job. When she's at work, I slip in and clean her house. When she's at home I rub her back and give her pedicures. In return I get the key to her apartment and am allowed to come and go to clean and cook and make things beautiful for her. Once in a while she allows me to service her sexually.

I love my relationship with her. It gives me such pleasure to touch her intimate things and know they're hers. Doing laundry for her is a treat. I wish more men would learn the joys of taking off their suits and their armour of authoritarianism to enjoy the life of a submissive. My vanilla wife doesn't know about this, and doesn't need to know, as Mistress never allows intercourse, so I'm not endangering my wife's health.

Just Sharing

Downtown*

I have watched healthy and unhealthy porn. I like the stuff that's written and directed by women for women. I think it's okay to have a happy, healthy appreciation for a fantasy life.

What I don't enjoy is anything that looks or feels contrived, which is most of the storylines of the badly written stuff.

For a time, years ago, we had bootlegged satellite, and I found myself becoming rather addicted to porn. I didn't have the patience to endure most of the silly plots, or talking scenes, which was the beauty of getting a free signal - I could flip from channel to channel to see what was happening, and if the scene was stimulating, I'd watch until I became bored (or satisfied!:). This lasted a few pleasant months until they scrambled the signal.

So, I would definitely say I am visually stimulated. I don't know if that is rare for women or not. Maybe we're just now coming into our own in terms of feeling that it's ok to objective a man (or woman) sexually?

I don't think strip clubs are a good test area. In my experience, both men and women go as much for the comraderie as the visuals. The guys mostly drink and cut-up...and so do the women. Guys don't usually sit there and actually get aroused, at least not if they're with other guys.

My boyfriend just went to a strip club with his buddies, and one of his (married) friends went in the back room for a "private dance." That's something a woman probably wouldn't do. Then again, it's not offered at the sort of Chippendale-type shows that women attend.

We just got back from "Hedonism" in Jamaica, where everyone is nude, and I found it quite sexy to look at the (unfortunately few) hot guys that were there...and watch couples having sex. It was like live porn, which excites my boyfriend. He doesn't watch video or internet porn. Of the two of us, I'd be more attracted to porn.

However, I really don't like the business of porn, so I'm conflicted. The mainstream satellite type porn was usually pretty good in depicting women (a lot of it is supposedly directed by women) and that is the type that I found exciting. I like it when the man and woman are both getting pleasured. But there's still too much violence and degradation towards women in the industry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magazine/25desire-t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&ref=magazine

All was different with the women. No matter what their self-proclaimed sexual orientation, they showed, on the whole, strong and swift genital arousal when the screen offered men with men, women with women and women with men. They responded objectively much more to the exercising woman than to the strolling man, and their blood flow rose quickly — and markedly, though to a lesser degree than during all the human scenes except the footage of the ambling, strapping man — as they watched the apes.

...

The generally accepted therapeutic notion that, for women, incubating intimacy leads to better sex is, Meana told me, often misguided. “Really,” she said, “women’s desire is not relational, it’s narcissistic” — it is dominated by the yearnings of “self-love,” by the wish to be the object of erotic admiration and sexual need.

> Wow, they have merit badges for
> that now?

> Posted by: jerry at
> March 10, 2009 12:49 PM

Comment of the month. I'd kill to move at that speed.

I've never gotten the popularity of porn. I'd much rather be doing than watching and watching just makes me feel left out and loser.

That said, when others talk about watching, all I do is shrug and say to each their own. I don't get how anyone can get worked up about other people watching. Unless, of course, it's their significant other but if that matters that much to you, move on to someone else instead of dictating who they should be to be with you.

“women’s desire is not relational, it’s narcissistic” — it is dominated by the yearnings of “self-love,” by the wish to be the object of erotic admiration and sexual need."

What is your point, Jason? That men aren't as narcissistic? Maybe it just hit me wrong, but there's been a lot of that sort of implication lately on this site - assertions of how "narcissistic" women are, as if we're only motivated by self.

I don't think that word should be thrown around so casually, as it is a real psychological condition, so labeling all women as "narcissistic" is insulting and false.

Besides, who DOESN'T want to be the object of erotic admiration and desire? Men certainly want that just as much, or so many wouldn't be willing to toss their families aside for the first 20 something who tells him his comb-over looks "sexy".

LS - men want sex, not admiration. Chances are good that his wife isn't putting out any more because she "doesn't feel the same". Because she's uncomfortable with what being married to a middle-aged balding man says about her.

Men are very simple to figure out. Eat, drink, fuck, sleep.

One problem with much of the porn for men (from at least one woman's pov) is that many of the guys are so not hot. Gay male porn certainly offers more tasty looking guys...I recommend Conquered (though the dialogue is rather painfully bad, better with sound off) or Solicitor. What I like about yaoi (and well-written slash, which is more often found off-net) is that it does have a lot of romance/story without some of the painful cliche of old time romance (and two hot guys for the price of one :-)).

Lovelysoul, Jason is quoting the article he linked to... quite an interesting read really, taken in context of the entire 8 page writeup it makes more sense...

Brian, that just isn't true. I know it wasn't in my case. Yet, unfortunately, even a lot of women believe this is true...that they can "affair-proof" their marriages by giving their husbands lots of sex and attention.

The reality is that many men cheat just because they can, not because the wife isn't doing her best to make him happy, sexually or otherwise. But men want novelty...which is something a long-term partner can't provide.

Mature men realize that's not worth wrecking their marriages and families over - that both people must sacrifice some "newness" and erotic exitement for stability, but immature and self-absorbed men will still take the risk...even if they just got laid that morning.

LovelySoul that's a quote from the article. They're using narcissistic in the clinical sense.

I just thought that it was interesting research as it addresses why women may be aroused by lesbian sex though have no romantic interest in women - in the same way that they have no interest in apes.

Feminists have used similar research to argue that all women are bisexual. But I doubt that they'd appreciate the claim that all women are also Zoophilic (i.e. interested in bestiality).

But it may explain why so many women can practice casual lesbianism - if their eroticism is fundamentally narcissistic. Interestingly this is the classical analysis of homosexuality, which is now considered very un-PC.

Ironically one effect of the promotion of lesbianism among women has been the derogation of Lesbians. Where there had been an emerging acceptance of the validity of Lesbian relationships, this practice has now come to be regarded as mere exhibitionism - something that promiscuous college girls do before growing up and settling down with a man.

I read the article, Swiss. Very interesting. I just wondered why he zeroed on just that one part.

It isn't surprising to me that women are aroused by a broader range of images. When I watch porn, I instinctively identify with whoever is having the most fun.

If the man is going down on the woman, I can imagine what that feels like for her. Likewise, if the woman is going down on the man, I can imagine what that feels like for him...or for me, performing it. Both perspectives are enjoyable. Even watching intercourse, I can relate to being male or female.

I just want to be whichever one is receiving the most pleasure! lol But I don't believe that's narcissistic. Fantasy is a selfish act. That's the beauty of it. You don't have to worry about pleasing anyone else, and for us, that is a relief in itself since women tend to be the caregivers and "pleasers".

Maybe we women are also kind of "shapeshifters" in that regard...our point of view is more flexible. Yet, that differs from what we would desire in practice. As they're discovering, our practical desires don't necessarily correlate with our fantasies. With men, I think it's much more straightforward.

I see, Jason. You know, at "Hedonism", there were so many women into other women. Yet, they don't consider themselves bi or lesbian...just married women wanting to have sex with other women "in the lifestyle". That is probably 80% of the kind of "swinging" that occurs there. The men stand around and watch their wives have sex with each other, (occassionally helping out) and everyone acts like it's completely normal. I just couldn't understand it.

I don't know if these women just do that because it's what's allowed (as opposed to openly being with another man in a threesome, which happens rarely) or whether they REALLY desire other women. But I agree it convolutes "real" lesbianism. With that happening so casually, how can lesbianism truly be defined?

And, of course, the opposite (men on men) is completely taboo.

I have always suspected that the reason lesbianism is treated so differently than male homosexuality is because in our culture women are defined as the 'beautiful sex'. In ancient Greece, men were considered the 'beautiful sex' as seen in all the nude art devoted to men. The Olympics was for men only, and of course all these athletic participants were all naked. Among Spartans, boys, upon their entering military life, were paired with a veteran soldier. It was considered normal, even expected, for them to become lovers.

So it is with our culture. Women are the sexual focus of our art. Beauty is defined as the province of women. Lesbian experimentation is almost considered a right of passage among college girls. In The Vagina Monologues a young girl pairs with an older woman (a veteran, if you will) and considers it a benevolent experience. Hell, most men are, foolishly in my opinion, unconcerned with the though of their wives/girlfriends having sex with another woman... and in fact would like to watch. Very few of the same men would be willing to let her sleep with another man, especially in front of him.

Basically, I wonder what this study would look like in a society that viewed men like the Greeks did... if men were considered the 'beautiful' sex. And I wonder what the differences in arousal would be between male viewers and female viewers.

"but immature and self-absorbed men will still take the risk...even if they just got laid that morning." - Lovelysoul

Not to take the thread on too much a tangent, but I would submit that this is a bit simplistic. I know some very mature and calculating guys that nonetheless have several dalliances. Some people seem to be wired to cheat, male and female. The amount of fun they get from their partner more or less has no bearing. That doesn't mean the rest of us should get punished... It won't keep him from cheating if he is already going to do so, however... it might keep someone from being dissaffected and drifting away. There are grayzone partners on both sides who eventually turn to other people for something missing. Regardless if it's sacktime or emo support, or forgetting your birthday for 10 years. That's different than a hard core cheater... IMHO

/tangent

Lesbian experimentation is almost considered a right of passage among college girls.

I think that there's an element of social pressure that goes along with that, at least on some campuses.

This topic had come-up in a conversation I'd had a while ago with my girlfriend's sister and a few young women that she works with. One of these girls went to school in Texas, and didn't have any idea of what we were talking about.

But the two girls who went to school in NYC were well aware of the phenomenon. Interestingly they both seemed to regard it as the result of peer pressure - that Feminist students and faculty on campus pushed lesbian experimentation on otherwise heterosexual female students. And neither of these girls seemed conservative, they seemed like your typical young urban Liberals.

I also know another woman, my age, who'd been in a Lesbian relationship during college and now feels like she was exploited. She was 'seduced' by a female faculty member who'd played on her insecurities - trying to convince her that she'd been abused by men etc.

She'd later learned that this woman regularly pursued young women using the same MO. But the school wouldn't do anything to curtail her behavior.

I think that same study also found that women´s bodies responded even when they reported no arousal. I think that women are not as in touch with their immediate sexuality as men are, in general. All those signals get filtered through our brains, which (annoyingly) tell us whether response is appropriate, beneficial, etc. The easiest response happens when you learn to turn off that little voice. This is not to say women are less sexual, maybe just that we have been socialized/evolved/whatever into making it a lower priority and thus not at the forefront of our attention.

I agree with the thought that women are perhaps narcissistic when it comes to what turns them on. Personally, the sight of a woman being incredibly desired is far more sexy than just a cock shot. Though I enjoy both. :)

I really like dirty movies, though I tend to get distracted by details like bad boob jobs, little winces of unintentional pain, ATM (ew) and things like that. I tend towards straight, kinda kinky stuff but I don´t watch as much as I´d like since it´s hard to find movies that have the things I do like: genuine female enjoyment, decent looking guys, real chemistry, and kink with decent production values.

I would watch it at least a few times a week if it was better stuff. And if I weren´t as cheap. It´s hard to justify the money when I can see it all for free basically at will. I will, however, recommend Tony Comstock´s work. He shoots real couples, so they´re not playboy bunnies, but in my mind that´s a plus.

As far as cheating, there´s a lot you can do, but I don´t think it works always, or even often. We weren´t built to be monogamous for 50+ years. It´s asking a lot. It´s possible, but I don´t know that it´s worth it when non-monogamy is an viable option if only we could all get our heads around it.

Non-monogamy has always been an option. I don't care to get my head around it. I whored around a fair deal in college, to no real benefit to myself. And the thought of a penis sticking in me that was recently sticking in some other girls just icks me out. Make fun of me for saying it icks me out if you want, that's the best way I can describe it. I get more and more picky about who's germs and DNA I allow in or near my body as I age. Even kissing, the biggest cause of cavities is one bacteria strain that some people have and some don't. Ditto chronic bad breath. I don't want someone else's mouth germs. Ick.

TMI! TMI!

I am a woman. I watch porn, and I like it. I don't mind the industry. Those people are making bank. But I don't pay for porn. There's enough free porn on the internet.
When I was a kid I used to read the sexy parts in the harlequin romance novels. I also have a pretty high sex drive. I watch it alone (as a supplement when the boyfriend is not around) and with my boyfriend. I would say it's probably a personal choice thing. And I think more women would enjoy porn, and probably do, but don't talk about it. Again, if a man likes sex that's good, if a woman does, it's bad, since it makes men think that a woman might be bad as a partner, since she might be pregnant with some other dude's baby, and he'll have to raise it...all of this subconscious and evolutionary. Yay science.

Usually, when, erm, spending some quality time with myself, I just daydream elaborate naughty scenarios.

Occasionally I need a visual boost, so I just do a random google. I do this almost never, since one time, my computer caught an STD.

Duck, some people are making back in the industry... most are not.