Robert Spencer Translates Obama
Obama showed massive naivete in much he said in his speech to Muslims. There was surely some diplomacy in there (aka lying while wearing a very nice suit), but I suspect it's overly optimistic to attribute some of the pretty egregious stuff he said to that.
Jihadwatch's Robert Spencer cuts through the crap and explains what Obama was really saying, and why. A few excerpts (with text as prepared for delivery by the White House):
OBAMA: I am honored to be in the timeless city of Cairo, and to be hosted by two remarkable institutions. For over a thousand years, Al-Azhar has stood as a beacon of Islamic learning,SPENCER: ...whose Grand Sheikh, Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, has given his approval -- on Islamic grounds -- to suicide bombing.
... OBAMA: I have come here to seek a new beginning between the United States and Muslims around the world; one based upon mutual interest and mutual respect; and one based upon the truth that America and Islam are not exclusive, and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles - principles of justice and progress; tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.
SPENCER: No word, of course, of the Sharia laws that impugn the dignity of human beings who are women or non-Muslim by denying them various basic rights.
... OBAMA: As a student of history, I also know civilization's debt to Islam. It was Islam - at places like Al-Azhar University - that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe's Renaissance and Enlightenment. It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra; our magnetic compass and tools of navigation; our mastery of pens and printing; our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed. Islamic culture has given us majestic arches and soaring spires; timeless poetry and cherished music; elegant calligraphy and places of peaceful contemplation. And throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality.
SPENCER: The idea that Islamic culture was once a beacon of learning and enlightenment is a commonly held myth. In fact, much of this has been exaggerated, often for quite transparent apologetic motives. The astrolabe was developed, if not perfected, long before Muhammad was born. The zero, which is often attributed to Muslims, and what we know today as "Arabic numerals" did not originate in Arabia, but in pre-Islamic India. Aristotle's work was preserved in Arabic not initially by Muslims at all, but by Christians such as the fifth century priest Probus of Antioch, who introduced Aristotle to the Arabic-speaking world. Another Christian, Huneyn ibn-Ishaq (809-873), translated many works by Aristotle, Galen, Plato and Hippocrates into Syriac. His son then translated them into Arabic. The Syrian Christian Yahya ibn 'Adi (893-974) also translated works of philosophy into Arabic, and wrote one of his own, The Reformation of Morals. His student, another Christian named Abu 'Ali 'Isa ibn Zur'a (943-1008), also translated Aristotle and others from Syriac into Arabic. The first Arabic-language medical treatise was written by a Christian priest and translated into Arabic by a Jewish doctor in 683. The first hospital was founded in Baghdad during the Abbasid caliphate -- not by a Muslim, but a Nestorian Christian. A pioneering medical school was founded at Gundeshapur in Persia -- by Assyrian Christians.
In sum, there was a time when it was indeed true that Islamic culture was more advanced than that of Europeans, but that superiority corresponds exactly to the period when Muslims were able to draw on and advance the achievements of Byzantine and other civilizations. But when the Muslim overlords had taken what they could from their subject peoples, and the Jewish and Christian communities had been stripped of their material and intellectual wealth and thoroughly subdued, Islam went into a period of intellectual decline from which it has not yet recovered.
OBAMA: I know, too, that Islam has always been a part of America's story. The first nation to recognize my country was Morocco. In signing the Treaty of Tripoli in 1796, our second President John Adams wrote, "The United States has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Muslims."
SPENCER: Of course it doesn't. But does that statement hold true the other way around?
... OBAMA: Our daughters can contribute just as much to society as our sons, and our common prosperity will be advanced by allowing all humanity - men and women - to reach their full potential. I do not believe that women must make the same choices as men in order to be equal, and I respect those women who choose to live their lives in traditional roles. But it should be their choice. That is why the United States will partner with any Muslim-majority country to support expanded literacy for girls, and to help young women pursue employment through micro-financing that helps people live their dreams.
SPENCER: How does he propose to overcome the culture that teachings like this create? The Qur'an likens a woman to a field (tilth), to be used by a man as he wills: "Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will" (2:223).
The Qur'an also declares that a woman's testimony is worth half that of a man: "Get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her" (2:282).
It allows men to marry up to four wives, and have sex with slave girls also: "If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice" (4:3).
It rules that a son's inheritance should be twice the size of that of a daughter: "Allah (thus) directs you as regards your children's (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females" (4:11).
Worst of all, the Qur'an tells husbands to beat their disobedient wives: "Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them" (4:34).
It allows for marriage to pre-pubescent girls, stipulating that Islamic divorce procedures "shall apply to those who have not yet menstruated" (65:4).
Incredible naivete from an American president, recited to barbarians from a religion that is not a religion at all, but a totalitarian system cloaking itself as a religion, with scripture written to justify Mohammed's violent and sick acts, like marrying a girl who was 6, and having sex with her when she was nine.
That's just a bit of Spencer's translation excerpted above. Read the whole thing at the link.
This is classic liberal thinking.
I will just reach out and say nice things and possibly hug someone and all our differences will melt away. Ahhh. Utopia. Kumbaya.
There is a deep seated religious doctrine that tells how to treat us infidels and now amount of good words or hugs are going to change that.
A refresher- 9/11- Muslims. Englands bus bombings-Muslims. Spanish train bombings-Muslims. Bali nightclub bombings-Muslims.
There are numerous others but you get the point.
There is evil in the world and evil doesn't respond to nice words or hugs.
David M. at June 5, 2009 3:43 AM
Erm, this was a diplomatic address. You didn't really expect him to go to Egypt and give a long rant about everything he dislikes about Egypt, did you? I think it is incredibly naive to expect him to do that.
When you're working with other people, in order to meet your goals, you often have to overlook massive amounts of crap. What possible good would have come out of him mentioning everything wrong with Egypt? What would that have accomplished? Do we want them to help our intelligence efforts, or not? Do we want to do business with them, or not?
We can't perpetually be at war with every bad government on the planet. We just don't have the resources, sorry. We have to exist peacefully, and that includes making nice speeches. Unless he's prepared to sever diplomatic and economic relations with Egypt, or any other country, he is going to have to make nice speeches.
We have to pick our battles.
NicoleK at June 5, 2009 6:02 AM
There is evil in the world and evil doesn't respond to nice words or hugs.
Word, word, word.
Flynne at June 5, 2009 6:34 AM
Unless he's prepared to sever diplomatic and economic relations ... he is going to have to make nice speeches.
Fine, he's going to go and make speeches that tell basic untruths about the subjects of his speeches. All politicians do. Fine -- as long as he and his followers realize that, in so doing in a speech to a foreign audience, he is, in the minds of that audience, giving tacit official American endorsement to the behavior of whatever groups he's talking about. That's most certainly how it's seen abroad, particularly in the Arab world. I didn't invent this to be mean. People who understand the Arab mind know this.
In addition, such conciliatory words by an infidel project weakness to the Arab Muslim mind, and they will take it as such. Faux negotiation based on perceived infidel weakness is a well-known tactic used by Islamists in their quest for subjugation for all not like them. (The "idiot" Bush realized this -- why doesn't the brilliant Obama?) Someone better get inside Obama's echo chamber and get him to see this, before we all suffer for his naivete.
cpabroker at June 5, 2009 7:00 AM
I will just reach out and say nice things and possibly hug someone and all our differences will melt away. Ahhh. Utopia. Kumbaya.
In addition, such conciliatory words by an infidel project weakness to the Arab Muslim mind, and they will take it as such.
I dare say you misunderestimate Obama. His approach to conflict is pretty consistent: reach out to people with a conciliatory speech, and then play hardball if they don't work with him. If we're seeking to divide the hardline members of the Muslim world from those we can do business with, this is probably a good start. And if we're trying to show our allies we at least tried conciliation, again, this is a good start.
Cheezburg at June 5, 2009 7:31 AM
I say nuke the ice caps and watch all those third world regimes and hell holes drown
Sucks for holland but the dumbasses should have known bettter than to build below sea level
lujlp at June 5, 2009 7:42 AM
I dare say you misunderestimate Obama. His approach to conflict is pretty consistent: reach out to people with a conciliatory speech, and then play hardball if they don't work with him. If we're seeking to divide the hardline members of the Muslim world from those we can do business with, this is probably a good start. And if we're trying to show our allies we at least tried conciliation, again, this is a good start.
If the GM bankruptcy is an example of Obama's diplomacy, I expect him to do as Jimmy Carter did: Play hardball with with people who are open to negotiation, and with whom the US has mutual interests and give away the store in the name of ideology to those who will never support us.
Isabel1130 at June 5, 2009 7:48 AM
such conciliatory words by an infidel project weakness to the Arab Muslim mind, and they will take it as such.
The conciliatory words are exactly the problem (one of them) and for exactly this reason. I only know this because I've been reading about Islam since 9/11. Apparently, this didn't hold great interest for Obama.
Amy Alkon at June 5, 2009 7:58 AM
Name someone other than the Chrysler bondholders that he's played hardball with.
North Korea tests an atomic bomb. Silence.
Iran tests a long-range missile. Silence.
Sorry, Cheez. This is not the Obama you thought you voted for.
Here's what you got - a self-hating fascist. Which is really weird, but there it is.
brian at June 5, 2009 8:13 AM
When you're working with other people, in order to meet your goals, you often have to overlook massive amounts of crap.
Let's see, there are some examples of this:
Sometimes you just have to kill someone, unfortunately.
Jim P. at June 5, 2009 9:42 AM
Name someone other than the Chrysler bondholders that he's played hardball with.
You did mean, other than Republicans, right? :-)
WayneB at June 5, 2009 10:13 AM
"For over a thousand years, Al-Azhar has stood as a beacon of Islamic learning"
Here's a choice example of the kind of learning Al-Azhar has been sending out for 1000 years. An Egyptian Muslim man fell in love with & married a German Christian woman, and decided to convert to Christianity. The imams at Al-Azhar put a fatwa on him.
Questions:
1) What is the Islamic ruling in relation to this man? What are the punishments prescribed for his act?
2) Are his children considered Muslim or Christian?
Answer:
"All praise is to Allah, the Lord of the Universe, and salutations on the leader of the righteous, our master Muhammad, his family and all his companions.
This man has committed apostasy. He must be given a chance to repent, and if he does not, then he must be killed according to Shariah.
As far as his children are concerned, as long as they are children they are considered Muslim, but after they reach the age of puberty, then if they remain with Islam they are Muslims, but if they leave Islam and they do not repent, they must be killed and Allah knows best"
Link here:
http://persecutedbyislam.blogspot.com/2007/10/al-azhars-fatwa-against-apostates.html
Google "al-azhar" & "fatwa" and you'll find plenty more like this, all from the most prestigious university in the entire Muslim world. And it's prestige has now been enhanced by the fact that the President of the United States has given a speech there gushing over how wonderful & wise Islam is.
Martin at June 5, 2009 10:24 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/06/robert-spencer.html#comment-1652120">comment from MartinGreat example, Martin. And just one of so many. If you just lift the tiniest corner of the rug on Islam you find barbarianism of the most enormous degree.
Amy Alkon
at June 5, 2009 10:48 AM
This man is an embarassment. I would further elaborate, only, after reading this post yesterday (poster bear1909 post #87) An Open Letter To Barry Soetoro , I just don't think I could say it any better....
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/06/03/finally-obamas-limp-statement-on-the-jihadi-attack-in-arkansas/comment-page-1/#comments
(sorry for linking the entire address...i cant figure out these html tag thingies to save my life.)
feebie at June 5, 2009 12:55 PM
You did mean, other than Republicans, right? :-)
Exactly. The Republicans are totally over the barrel with healthcare reform - they can make a deal, or they can get one forced upon them through reconciliation. No filibustering.
Cheezburg at June 5, 2009 1:56 PM
heh, feebie my favorite line from bear1909?
"The Commander-in-Chief of the United States of America is obligated to send a stark and searing message to Islam today: Do Not Tread on Me."
SwissArmyD at June 5, 2009 2:04 PM
Somewhat off-topic:
The story this week is a French plane and not an Egyptian one, but this story has lots of resonance.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at June 5, 2009 3:10 PM
"Google "al-azhar" & "fatwa" and you'll find plenty more like this, all from the most prestigious university in the entire Muslim world. And it's prestige has now been enhanced by the fact that the President of the United States has given a speech there gushing over how wonderful & wise Islam is."
That is just fine and dandy and I don't give a shit.
What you are missing is that Obama and I are sick and tired of status quo. Either we are going to progress or regress but I will not tolerate status quo.
Your apparent superiority that you are better than the Muslims because you have flush toilets and 24/7 access to porn channels do not impress Amish or myself.
I am more pissed off that this superior western civilization singlehandedly caused the world wide depression that Muslims did not ask for.
You cannot kill off entire billion Muslims and within my life time they will become the majority voting power all thanks to democracy.
Kiss and make up now before it is too late.
Chang at June 5, 2009 7:07 PM
hee hee, I get to break out my favorite line:
Chang, you ignorant slut.
There is not kiss and make up. There are three, maybe four options.
Not a lot of good choices. The way I see it, our best option is to kill just enough of them to prove that we aren't going away, we aren't going to cave, and they'd better reconsider the whole "submit or die" philosophy.
The problem is the assnozzle in the White House thinks he can sweet-talk a bunch of crazy motherfuckers into giving up their eliminationist rhetoric and dreams of world conquest. The Iranians are laughing up their sleeves at Duh One.
brian at June 5, 2009 7:32 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/06/robert-spencer.html#comment-1652211">comment from ChangYour apparent superiority that you are better than the Muslims
We are better than Muslim societies because we don't kill people because they decide to change religions (Islam commands the killing of apostates). We are better because we allow women full rights. They are not treated as possessions like they are in Muslim societies, where Imams instruct in how to properly beat one's wife. We are better because we do not have preachers and rabbis standing before their congregations commanding them to convert or kill "the infidel." We are better because cartoonists can be offensive without a religious figure putting a death threat out on them and the paper which publishes them. We are better in numerous ways, and the growing Muslim population in this world will eventually reduce what is western civilization to millions of cockroaches in rubble unless something radical stops Islam.
Amy Alkon
at June 5, 2009 9:35 PM
The way I see it, our best option is to kill just enough of them to prove that we aren't going away, we aren't going to cave, and they'd better reconsider the whole "submit or die" philosophy.
I'm not sure I think the "just" is needed.
Cheezburg at June 6, 2009 12:19 AM
"The Commander-in-Chief of the United States of America is obligated to send a stark and searing message to Islam today: Do Not Tread on Me."
Those darned Presidents!
"Some of the comments that have been uttered about Islam do not reflect the sentiments of my government or the sentiments of most Americans. Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion, a religion that respects others. Ours is a country based upon tolerance and we welcome people of all faiths in America."
President George W. Bush, November 13, 2002
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at June 6, 2009 3:12 PM
Not a lot of good choices. The way I see it, our best option is to kill just enough of them to prove that we aren't going away, we aren't going to cave, and they'd better reconsider the whole "submit or die" philosophy.
Fuck yeah, religious genocide!
Seriously?
Mouse at June 17, 2009 11:45 AM
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