Imagine 2 children begging in the street. One of them is starving & dressed in rags, and the other one is starving, dressed in rags, and blinded & crippled besides. Which one of them will get more coins tossed their way by passing tourists? The very last thing Hamas wants is for the world to see thousands of prosperous Palestinians happily working away in greenhouses. The foundation of their economy is billions of dollars in donations from the UN & gullible or evil Westerners & Arabs. The more wretched the misery of their people, the more hatred they can whip up towards the Zionist entity, and the more $$ they can extort to buy explosives & rockets, and to siphon off to their mansions, BMWs, & Swiss bank accounts. Get rich, kill Jews, blame them for your people's misery. Makes perfect sense.

Absolutely, Martin. Great point. And any number of Arab countries could take in those "refugees," but that's the last thing they want -- a bunch of warring primitives to add the warring primitives they already have in their countries. They couldn't care less about the Palestinians, except as an excuse to go after the Israelis.

I'm always amazed at how Israelis can time after time forgive The Palestinians and not only forgive them but be extremely charitable with them.

I'm always amazed at how Israelis can time after time forgive The Palestinians and not only forgive them but be extremely charitable with them.

The reason is that nuking them is not really an option. They would just breed back like the rats and cockroaches they are. ;-)

That's a hell of a wink/smile there, Jimster.

No, Jim. The reason that nuking them is not an option is that fallout doesn't honor international boundaries.

The destruction of the greenhouses stands as Exhibit A in the indictment of Pali culture, and a damning bit of evidence it is. Almost any other culture on Earth, including many that we regard as morally substandard, would be delighted at being given such a gift. If the Palis aren't the premier wealth-destroyers on the face of the planet today, I don't know who is.

Dave -

What do you think the point of CREATING the refugees was? Islam, culturally, is destructive. That's what it was created to do.

Therefore, an artificial creation of a culture that was created to destroy is going to be an even more refined engine of destruction.

We need to upend the culture before any progress will be made.

No, Jim. The reason that nuking them is not an option is that fallout doesn't honor international boundaries.

Oh, so very true. This is second hand, but I knew a USAF fighter jock that trained with some IDF/AF -- They said the IDF jocks always were very aware of their location in relation to the ground. If they went supersonic for a minute, it could be an international incident.

It is really such a small piece of land.

I'm still of the idea of nuke 'em till they glow; bend 'em over and use their asses for runway lights.

I've tried to mellow out over the years -- but every time I get there, they pull the same dumb bull shit. Just a different location with a slightly different method.

Martin's point remind's me of the scene in "Slumdog Millionaire" where the supposed "humanitarian" caretakers of the orphaned children blind them because blind street singers bring in more begging money.

Hamas blinds the Palestinians (do I have to say metaphorically?) in order to raise more funds. Unfortunately those who donate money to the blind street urchins in India only encourage more brutality to orphans. If they stopped giving money to the blind there would be fewer blinded children. Likewise, the US and Europe, by donating to Hamas relief only cause more grief. For God's sake, stop giving money to Hamas.

If you have any decency and humanity, stop helping the Palestinians. For their sake.

Amy, this post is very naive. You seem to be painting a picture where the poor innocent Israelis were just minding their own business... in fact, they were handing out lollypops to the Palestinians! Then the evil, evil, Palestinians, who are rich and prosperous, decided to bomb the Israelis for no reason except that they hate them, because they are eeeeeevil.

Come on. The West Bank and Gaza are occupied by Israel. All trade in and out are controlled by Israel. In large portions of these areas, Palestinians are not allowed to build without permission... which is seldom granted. The Palestinians build anyways, because they have to eat. They make farms, falafel stands, other businesses. These get bulldozed by the Israelis, because the Palestinians didn't have permits. They can't -get- the permits. Things that get built for or by the Palestinians tend to get bombed. This is why not much gets built.

As for greenhouses in the desert... have you seen the water levels of the Dead Sea lately? Maybe greenhouses aren't -meant- to be built in the desert. Obviously this is why Israel needs to be in charge of the Golan Heights, not just for the military strategy, but also for the water. This was actually one of the things the Palestinians I worked with complained about... that when a settlement was built, the Israelis squandered water on swimming pools and other luxuries, where as they suddenly only had running water every other week. This was one of the reasons they feared the settlements, it meant they had less access to water (land issues aside).

Hamas is a terrible organization. Unfortunately, they got elected because they are on hand whenever their is a crisis, handing out food and such, and because of widespread corruption in the PA. They were seen as being better at taking care of the people. Needy people respond to the people who help them. Given another option, they might not have.

I, too, have met lots of Palestinians who would like to live peacefully with the Israelis (and Israelis who would like to live peacefully). Obviously, these people are not the problem. To say there are no extremists in Israel is to be turning a major blind eye to the problem.

I appreciate the difficulty the Israelis are in. They wanted land, and they were given it by the British. They needed it, they were being killed in Europe. However, there were already people living there which created a problem (and no amount of quoting Golda Meir makes the "land without a people" statement true). Obviously, the people fought back. In retrospect, they would have been better off if they hadn't, but obviously they hoped they would win and get to keep their land. The problem begins with the Europeans who are really the ones who fucked over the Jews.

Now they are in this circle of shit, where they have to beat down on the Palestinians in order to maintain some safety, which in turn makes the Palestinions more vicious, which means they need to beat down harder, which makes them more vicious, etc. etc. etc. But if either side gives in, they will just experience more shit. They would have to both give in at the same time, which doesn't seem likely.

Bernie, I agree we should stop giving to the Palestinians, but we should also stop giving to the Israelis. Giving to the Israelis results in more settlements in the West Bank. This results in more displaced, angry Palestinians. IMO, we should pull out of the region and let them settle their differences themselves. The Israelis have no incentive to make peace as long as they know we've got their back. We need to pull out of the region all together.

Amy, this post is very naive. You seem to be painting a picture where the poor innocent Israelis were just minding their own business... in fact, they were handing out lollypops to the Palestinians! Then the evil, evil, Palestinians, who are rich and prosperous, decided to bomb the Israelis for no reason except that they hate them, because they are eeeeeevil.

Come on. The West Bank and Gaza are occupied by Israel. All trade in and out are controlled by Israel. In large portions of these areas, Palestinians are not allowed to build without permission... which is seldom granted. The Palestinians build anyways, because they have to eat. They make farms, falafel stands, other businesses. These get bulldozed by the Israelis, because the Palestinians didn't have permits. They can't -get- the permits. Things that get built for or by the Palestinians tend to get bombed. This is why not much gets built.

As for greenhouses in the desert... have you seen the water levels of the Dead Sea lately? Maybe greenhouses aren't -meant- to be built in the desert. Obviously this is why Israel needs to be in charge of the Golan Heights, not just for the military strategy, but also for the water. This was actually one of the things the Palestinians I worked with complained about... that when a settlement was built, the Israelis squandered water on swimming pools and other luxuries, where as they suddenly only had running water every other week. This was one of the reasons they feared the settlements, it meant they had less access to water (land issues aside).

Hamas is a terrible organization. Unfortunately, they got elected because they are on hand whenever their is a crisis, handing out food and such, and because of widespread corruption in the PA. They were seen as being better at taking care of the people. Needy people respond to the people who help them. Given another option, they might not have.

I, too, have met lots of Palestinians who would like to live peacefully with the Israelis (and Israelis who would like to live peacefully). Obviously, these people are not the problem. To say there are no extremists in Israel is to be turning a major blind eye to the problem.

I appreciate the difficulty the Israelis are in. They wanted land, and they were given it by the British. They needed it, they were being killed in Europe. However, there were already people living there which created a problem (and no amount of quoting Golda Meir makes the "land without a people" statement true). Obviously, the people fought back. In retrospect, they would have been better off if they hadn't, but obviously they hoped they would win and get to keep their land. The problem begins with the Europeans who are really the ones who fucked over the Jews.

Now they are in this circle of shit, where they have to beat down on the Palestinians in order to maintain some safety, which in turn makes the Palestinions more vicious, which means they need to beat down harder, which makes them more vicious, etc. etc. etc. But if either side gives in, they will just experience more shit. They would have to both give in at the same time, which doesn't seem likely.

Bernie, I agree we should stop giving to the Palestinians, but we should also stop giving to the Israelis. Giving to the Israelis results in more settlements in the West Bank. This results in more displaced, angry Palestinians. IMO, we should pull out of the region and let them settle their differences themselves. The Israelis have no incentive to make peace as long as they know we've got their back. We need to pull out of the region all together.

NicoleK, we occupied Germany and Japan for decades, told them how to live (in Japan the US gave Japanese women the right to vote), what business they could or could not be in, where to live, etc. There were no suicide bombers in Germany or Japan blowing up US areas or killing US soldiers. If they did, you can be sure they would have been severely restricted in their movements, so your argument that Palestinians should bristle under Israeli occupation fails.

Jordan lost the war (in 1967) and so Jordanians (who are now somehow called Palestinians) living in the West Bank rightly live under occupation.

The British gave nothing to the Jews. A century before Israel became a state there were more Jews than Muslims or Christians in what is now Israel, in Jerusalem alone: "The 1844 census of Jerusalem found 7120 Jews…5760 Muslims…3390 Christians." See Naïve & Abroad: Israel & Palestine

And contrary to the propaganda that you've been fed, Jews bought whatever land they were on from the Arabs.

Arabs who did not flee Israel in 1948 became Israeli citizens with the full right to vote. Those who listened to Arab instructions to leave so that all the Jews could be killed are not and should not be welcomed back.

When Arabs expelled 750,000 Jews from their lands, every single one was absorbed into Israel. When 750,000 Arabs voluntarily left, not one Arab country wanted them. Had they been absorbed, there would be no Palestinians making trouble today.

Q: Name a country where Muslim or Arab women have the most rights.
A: Israel.

That last should give you pause.