It's ridiculous. My niece (and the rest of my family) live in a little town outside Boston that has had three murders in the past 10 years (none from 1999-2004, one in 2005, 2 in 2007), no kidnappings in recent memory, but my niece has never been able to play outside unless her mother was available to watch her, she had to call when she reached the bus stop and when she actually got on the school bus even through her whole first year of high school...I don't know if she still has to.

The way my mother and sister talk, you'd think there was a pedophile, pervert or kidnapper behind every telephone pole. I see the same old town I grew up in, low crime, friendly people, I have no idea where the siege mentality comes from unless as you say, it's from the constant bleating of the media.

One huge difference that struck me when I got back to Japan after a month in the US is how "boring" the news was here. Turn on NHK and a quiet announcer just matter-of-factly tells you what happened that day. No constant warnings of 'the dangers you don't know about yet' 'scary hidden illnesses in your home' 'the frightening hidden truth'. It's unbelievable how many times the word 'danger' is used in just one day of American TV broadcasting. I bet it's got a good bit to do with it.

Not worried about pedophiles. Not worried about stranger danger. Am very worried about traffic. Skenazy is no doubt right on the crime stats. I'd like some on traffic. (Doesn't she live in NYC, where traffic is heavy but slow-moving -- few cars tearing streets.) Where we live it gets crazier every year. Add in cell phones, texting, and kids whose parents never taught them proper responsibility and. . .I'm concerned for my own. (Note I did not say terrified.)

And then there's the fact that people don't step up to help others like they used to, so I'd wonder if someone would help out if trouble arose -- which always happened when I was a kid. (Weren't a bunch of guys just posting about how they'd never go near a kid because of fear of false accusations?)

Our school doesn't have buses, and it's a good 12-14 blocks across several major streets away. Not in first grade, that's for sure. Probably not in third. And I'm no helicopter parent.

Happily childless, but gotta sympathize with JulieA. Freakin' cars, man... We forget how dangerous it is out there. To have a child is to be eternally vulnerable.

I start walking to school from age 6 - grade one. This was in a city. I had to walk along a busy 4 lane road and cross one cross light - for a total of about six blocks (I think). I had no harm come to me. I think the worst thing I ever happen to me is to have some jerk-off moon me and my grade one class on that road.

From that point on I was pretty much walking to school. And even at times in the winter at around -20c. At no time really did my parents coddle me and drop me off everyday.

All it takes I think is a few dry runs and the kid will be ready to go on his own.

As to the crime factor - have you heard about the CSI:Mayo report that says most crimes are not even close to what you see on TV. I mean I love those shows CSI and Law and Order but god how many rich people or middle class people actually kill people it is usually will be poorer people that will commit murder. Or it will be related to something foreseeable. If you live in a ghetto where the drug trade thrives your child has a high chance of be shot. If you or your sig other interact with drugs then once again you children will have a higher chance of dying you. You want to protect your children stop doing drugs and handing out with criminals.

Me, too, on the walking to school as a kid in a city. I crossed some major streets. But I simply don't remember ever in the first half of my life seeing as many people knocked off bikes or nicked in cross walks or cars screeching down main thoroughfares. I know no one was talking or texting because those things didn't exist. There's I don't know how many times more traffic than when I was a kid, and more distractions (so even the adult drivers are dangerous now). Think of how often Amy has posted about some nut job cutting her off or almost colliding with her. People in general are ruder and more self-involved today and that extends to their automobiles.

God damn it. My previous posting sound illiterate. Sorry for the spelling mistakes.

It is amazing what parents focus on as dangerous. Blame it on the media. A year ago we had tens of thousand of Koreans protesting against importing American beef because of the small next to infinitesimal chance of getting mad cow disease. The ironic part was their was a mommy brigade who brought out their young children to protest, screaming and wailing that their children where going to die and get harmed by beef.

Of course they where bringing their children into an area whee their could be riots. Also ignoring that most children in Korea die is due to car and road accidents. If you want to protect your kids protest against something useful. Demand child safety seats, fixing dangerous sections, etc. Ah Korea Sparkling...

I think all parents, heck everybody needs a basic course on statistics and odds. I mean which is most likely to kill you talking on a cell phone at a gas station versus a swimming pool. People need to learn what not to panic over, when they should just be a little cautious.

@Crid: "To have a child is to be eternally vulnerable."

Even childless, you nailed that one, Crid. Constant worrying about the remotest events doesn't help any, either. One has to loosen the reins sometime, although I've probably not been the best about doing that myself.

As I posted in yesterday's thread, I intend to, at some point this year based on their behavior, let my 5 yr olds walk alone to school. It's not far. And while I-like every parent-do think about someone grabbing them whether it's rational or not, traffic is my #1 concern. Traffic is worse than it was in 1970. Or 1980. Even 1990. Cars aren't forgiving. And drivers tend to be idiots more concerned with their phone call or getting home 5 minutes sooner than with other's lives.

20 years ago my then-15 year old brother rode his bike halfway downtown to his movie theatre job every afternoon. My mom says she would never let that happen now, just b/c of traffic.

My girls walk to the bus stop, which is about 1/4 mile away from the house. I'll bring them to school if it's raining and I'm on my way out the door anyway. Not so when they were in grade school; my mom drove them.

Constant worrying about the remotest events doesn't help any, either.

You said it, ORD. I do my best not to, but with my parents, especially my dad, nagging me all the time about "where are they?", "what are they doing?", "who are they with?", I'm extremely tempted to say, "hey! I didn't tell you any of those things when you asked me, now did I?"

I agree that the media has really gotten everyone worked up with all the constant warnings of 'the dangers you don't know about yet' 'scary hidden illnesses in your home' 'the frightening hidden truth'. that comes screaming out of the TV every day. Talk about the dumbing down of America. The sheeple don't want to be independent, they want everything done for them. Someone's getting something out of this, and it ain't me! I wonder, just who is making money off of scaring the crap out of us on a daily basis?

@Flynne: "I agree that the media has really gotten everyone worked up..."

Reminds me of a story: A few years ago, we were at a hotel, eating breakfast before continuing on our trip. My middle daughter, then about seven, wanted to go to the restroom to wash her hands. "Be careful," my wife demanded, "not somebody kidnap you!"

Said Middle Daughter, "Aww, you been watching too much Lifetime!"

Seems the parinoa about men harming children is starting to bite women in the ass as well

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6797723.ece

I too walked to school from the first grade on. (Up hill, both ways) It was close to a mile each way in elementary school. It was half a mile or so to get the school bus in Jr. High.

These days I get behind buses that stop every 3 or 4 houses to pick up a single kid, while Moms stand on the front step in their robes drinking coffee.

I'm just outside of Boston too Crella, from Hingham. Where are you from?

Traffic. Far more dangerous if you're actually, y'know IN it. There's these things called "sidewalks" you might have heard of. Maybe we just have them up here in New England and y'all haven't gotten them down in Texas yet. They're supposedly a new invention.

Personally, I think everyone should be forced to learn to ride a motorcycle before they are allowed to drive a car. You are MUCH more attentive to the things going on around you when you're nothing but meat and wheels.

Although I agree that the teenagers in their Testosteronis are a danger. But at least you can hear them a block away and adjust.

Yes, I too walked 20 miles through the snow in all seasons uphill both ways to school and back in 1965. Anyone else a little nostalgic for the olden days?

I have daily experience with parents and school-aged children, including my own, in the medium-sized city of Murfreesboro, TN. We mostly let our kids walk if they don't have to go more than a mile or so and if the younger ones don't have to cross major thoroughfares. We aren't afraid of murder and kidnapping. I just don't have the experience that parents are as whiny and overprotective as the author seems to believe.

It sounds like this is her whole premise:

The usual reason parents give is, 'Times have changed,"

I'd like to see some sort of documentation because, and I realize this is anectodal, I've NEVER heard a parent use such a blanket generalization in regard to whether his child walks to school.

The most common reason I hear is traffic, after which is distance. In our district, middle-schoolers are bused 8 miles (the nearest middle school is 2 miles) so the schools in the district can be "culturally" balanced. (I know, another subject.)

I'm sympathetic to the idea of helicopter parenting, but I don't cotton to this kind of sneering cheap shot:

Those scary shows -- coupled with cable stations running off to Aruba or Portugal every time a white girl disappears -- make us feel as if kids are being abducted 24/7.

No, they don't. Because in addition to not being a bunch of knuckle-dragging racists who only care about white children, we also know the difference between television and real lift.

Life. Not lift.

Well, Robin - SOMEONE was watching Fox News when it became the "All missing white girl - all the time" channel.

I know it wasn't me.

The school my kid would theoretically go to is about 1/2 mile away, and she wouldn't have to cross any major streets to get there... the highest traffic area in the neighborhood is actually around the school, but they have crossing guards. So... first or second grade, maybe? I guess it depends on her. Of course, if I walk her to school in the morning, then I can go on a nice run right afterwards... Anyway, I'm not worried about pervs, and not all that worried about traffic in the current situation, but there are certain times of the year that I'd be concerned about the heat.

>>Personally, I think everyone should be forced to learn to ride a motorcycle before they are allowed to drive a car. You are MUCH more attentive to the things going on around you when you're nothing but meat and wheels.

Brian?
That's so fucking stupid.

The penalty for even a moment of inattention on a motorcycle is far, far too high for many parents.

The penalty for even a moment of inattention on a motorcycle is far, far too high for many parents.

You ever ride a bicycle? Ever do a faceplant? How many times after that?

Ever use a soldering iron, or a Dremel? Chainsaw? These all carry a very high penalty for inattention too.

Guess what - that's how you learn to pay attention.

I'd be willing to bet that most helicopter parents would faint dead away at the concept of a 10 year old with a power tool. I've been taking things since I was a kid. Amazingly, I didn't swallow any small parts, burn my hands off, set the house on fire, or cause any explosions.

Although I still have a few parts left over from that radio I tried to fix in 1978.

but there are certain times of the year that I'd be concerned about the heat.

More for the sweat than anything else. Do kids get BO?

I walked to school since grade 1. It was completely residential streets to my school, but I did live in a bad neighborhood. I do have to admit that ONCE my brother was offered candy by a stranger in a car. However, we avoided him, told the school, and the cops talked to him. He said he was supposed to pick up his girlfriend's kid and didn't know which one was which, so he was trying to get a kid to come near enough to his car so that he could ask if any of them knew the kid he was looking for. His girlfriend and the school records backed him up, so guess it wasn't really anything.

One can only imagine what would have happened to the guy nowadays.

The thing that has changed, I think is that there are a lot of 'burbs where walking is an afterthought. Couple that with the interest in having larger schools to have fewer buildings and so forth, and even the 'close' neighborhood school is over 2 miles. This is true for a lot of my friends as well... My ex- and I had a disagreement on if the #1son should walk as we both did when we were kids. She was definitely in helicopter mode then... Once the kids were in different schools that are even farther away, well at some point it just can't be helped.

What has REALLY changed is that you no longer buy a house, start a family, and stay in that house a long time. Add that to how demos change anyway, and sometimes a permannent school building isn't really where you need it to be.

Meanwhile, yeah, a problem that we are having is that we are TOO child centric. My ex- and I still disagree on that. Yesterday was Freshman O for #1 son, and I kicked him out near the door and said, 'see 'ya. Ex- was scandalized that I didn't go in. ??? :massive eyeroll: If the school wasn't so far from where he lives, he'd be walkin'.

Remember that going to the wrong rooms because the number was on the BACK of the open door when you were a freshman? I wouldn't deprive him of that feeling. "it's not poison, it won't kill you..." That's how you figure out who will help you in school...

And Brian? It's nice that everywhere in your little world has sidewalks... lotsa pickett fences too?

>>Guess what - that's how you learn to pay attention.

I GET that bit, brian.
And our boys are not unscathed. They have had a ton of lively A & E visits (trampoline/bikes/rusty nails/knocked out cold ski-ing etc etc) between them.

But I do not want to lean over a coffin, yelling at my 18-year-old - the one with a yen for danger - saying "See? See? I TOLD you so!".

There is simply too high a risk of death with motorcycles, the young motorcyclist's momentary inattention - and other inattentive drivers.

I agree with those advocating a hands-off, pain-reinforced approach to child safety, but to be fair, nobody alive today was killed as a child by a stranger, traffic, or power tools, so all of you volunteering yourselves as counterexamples to the above don't actually accomplish much.

"More for the sweat than anything else. Do kids get BO?"
No, dumbshit, heatstroke. The highs at the beginning of the school year are typically in the upper 90's or low 100's. I'm suprised you didn't know that, with your infinite wisdom and all.

And Brian? It's nice that everywhere in your little world has sidewalks... lotsa pickett fences too?

Not so much. But your sarcasm detector could probably use a cleaning.

"Traffic. Far more dangerous if you're actually, y'know IN it. There's these things called "sidewalks" you might have heard of. Maybe we just have them up here in New England and y'all haven't gotten them down in Texas yet. They're supposedly a new invention."

Someone's in a nasty sarcastic mood today. There are these things called, you know, ROADS, that one must cross?? Sometimes, these things called roads, they're filled with dumbasses yakking on cell phones and paying no attention to crosswalks??

I don't remember many of them newfangled sidewalks up in New England. We sure do 'nuff have 'em down here though!

The high, our first day of school, is supposed to be 105. Not great for physical exertion, in the sun, on pavement. Something you yankees may not know much about, what with your "aaack, it's 80!" summers and all.

80? Our "normal" summer peak (end of July, beginning of August) is in the 90s and humid most days. It's been unseasonably cold this summer.

It's 88 right now, and the dew point is 65. Drier than yesterday. People were mowing their lawns yesterday, and I'll be doing mine today since it's gonna rain the rest of the week.

I know that oldsters were dropping like flies in France because they won't use air conditioning, but there's a huge difference between being in a non-air conditioned house at 90 degrees all day long, and taking a 10 minute walk (half a mile at a normal pace) between air conditioned buildings.

And I live on a road where people drive way too fast while not paying attention. Amazingly, there's sidewalks on both sides. Oh, and crossing guards where the kids cross to get to the school.

I'm sorry, the world just is not as dangerous as you imagine it to be. There have been inattentive drivers since there have been cars.

Amazingly, I didn't . . . set the house on fire, or cause any explosions.

Me neither, at least ot on accidednt

I'm not sure, Brian, I seem to notice a lot more people not paying attention while driving. There used to be at least somewhat of an emphasis on driving safety; remember when insurance companies would give discounts to people who had been through drivers' ed? Is there still any such thing as drivers' ed today? I try to be an attentive driver. I try to keep my eyes on the road and never assume that the drivers of the cars around me will behave rationally. Just this summer I can think of at least three times when I prevented an accident by taking evasive action, and at least twice the driver who caused the near-accident was totally clueless that anything had happened. The other day, I saw someone "driving", smoking a cig with one hand and texting with the other; I guess she had her knee on the wheel. Needless to say, staying in her lane was something she just wasn't concerned about. And the bad thing was, she was driving her kid to school.

I know any number of kids who have recently graduated high school, who have never once walked to school. I get a laugh out of these parents whose #1 priority for buying a house is being within a few blocks of a school -- and then they drive the kids, every day. I started walking in the first grade. Admittedly it was all residential streets, and walkers were required to take a "walkers' path" that led them off the school grounds in a direction that was away from the pick-up areas where the traffic was. I quickly learned where a few friends lived along the way, where I could stop in if need be. If it were JulieA's situation, then yeah, first grade might be too young for crossing major roads. Third grade, maybe. I only rode when it was raining or really cold.

There has been a lot of consolidation of high schools here -- not in the city, but in the surrounding areas. Some of the rural counties now only have one high school, and some students are having to travel 30-40 miles.

My kids used to bus because we were too far to walk(almost 2 1/2 miles). On nice days I did let them walk because the area was safe and there was minimal crossing busy roads. Also, they usually went with other neighborhood kids the way I did as a kid. When we moved to a better area, I still let them walk. There were sidewalks and crossing guards. I was in the minority letting my kids walk.
My problem now though is that my daughter will be starting middle school. I was very mixed about her walking when she's always walked but because the area she will have to walk through is sketchy. She would have to walk through a shopping center that has some crime especially during holidays, and across a foot bridge connected to the school where local kids hang out and do drugs.
She will be 12 and is responsible but personally, I'd be a little nervous walking this area myself. My worry is muggings not abduction. None of the local kids walk to school so I don't have the comfort of her staying in numbers. We do live in a nice area with very low crime but the school happens to be on the town border which borders a not so nice town that does have a higher rate of crime. A school librarian was actually mugged in the parking lot. So most likely I will be taking my daughter to school, but we'll feel it out as we go.

Another thing that should be mentioned is the hysteria caused by watching or reading news. When I grew up, we played outside, walked everywhere, etc. Then Etan Patz disappeared on his way to school and that was the start of things changing.
People didn't really pay attention to the fact that it was one kid out of how many because the story was personalized. If it could happen to him, it could happen to anyone became the thought process. It was also ignored that most likely it was through someone close to the family that he disappeared. After that was John Walsh and the terrible tragedy with his son, and that was pretty much it where I came from.
I live in NY, Long Island actually, and despite our reputation NY is a great place to live and a place that gets a bad rap when it comes to crime and safety. I take my children into Manhattan often, and I've never been in fear for any of our safety. But little Etan was from a very nice, safe part of Manhattan, and that did start the mindset back then.

"And I live on a road where people drive way too fast while not paying attention"

I live in a little hidden neighborhood behind a very pricey mall. When I first moved here I would walk to the movie theatre, which can be seen from my backyard. It is the shortest walk imaginable and I have to cross a very tiny street. I am clearly visible, and there are traffic lights. I have almost been run over too many countless times to remember (and this is NOT a busy street). One lady stopped an inch from running me over while talking on her cell phone. Yes i literally felt her car bumper. And there was no way she could have missed me because I was standing across from her during the red light.

I wouldnt let my kid walk to school because traffic is just too dangerous, especially in California. There have been too many cases of people riding in bicycles being hit and left for dead in my area.

Can you imagine teenage boys driving a motorcycles instead of cars?
It is just a ridiculous notion because they cant even drive cars correctly (even before the era of cell phones).

Brian.

I grew up next to a man who rode a motorcycle everywhere, even to work. He had two young girls and a wife. He was flattened by a semi coming home one night - leaving his kids fatherless and his wife filled with grief. They had to move because they could no longer afford the house without his salary. The semi didn't see him.

A friend of the family was riding home and got hit by someone who ran a red light (on a cell phone) - he is now a vegetable.

It has nothing to do with being a safe motorcyclist. It's assholes who aren't paying attention on the road...and in every case - a motorcycle will loose to a car or truck.

Feeb -

You drive a small car?

You're nearly as likely to die in that if you get hit by a semi.

Life is risk. People with no medical problems have dropped dead of a heart attack at 37, leaving wives and children behind.

Humans are absolutely awful at estimating risk when the potential negative consequence is death.

Can't believe my eyes.

> Life is risk. People with no medical
> problems have dropped dead of a
> heart attack at 37, leaving wives
> and children behind.

So you think preparedness is important?

So you think preparedness is important?

1 - don't you DARE threadjack yet another thread to make it all about me.

2 - Yeah, if you've got something to lose, or someone else is relying upon you for their survival.

One thing that has been touched on briefly, but that I think is important is the knowledge of your neighbours and having other kids to walk with. When I was in elementary school (early 70's), there were at least a half dozen kids on our street who would walk to school together on any given day. And there were "Block Watch" houses enroute plus we knew the houses along the way where other kids in the school lived. These are all things that were taught to us about being safe during the first few chaperoned walks. This helped us and our parents feel more secure about letting us walk to school alone.

In addition, most of the families had one stay at home parent -- so we were able to head to school at school time. Not at 6:30 a.m. for some pre-care program.

Times have changed, but I don't believe there's an increase of "bad guys". But the support system to help a kid who needs it has certainly eroded. And that's our own damn, fearful fault!

I used to walk to school from grade 2 thru 8, back in the 1970s. I remember two separate times some guy pulling up beside me and trying to talk me into getting into his car.

The first time I was 7 and had no clue, and it was only some adult chasing the car off that stopped me from falling for whatever line the creepy guy was spinning and getting in.

The second time I was 12 and knew better, and just took off running.

Just b/c it's really unlikely doesn't mean it will never happen to you, or your kid. It's good to be prudent.

A-Ha!

You know what I hate? Mothers who bring their post-pubescent sons to the women's bathroom at rest stops. Especially since there is usually an accessable "family" one-room bathroom available.

It's freaky coming out of your stall and seeing a man there when you don't expect it. If the bathrooms were coed it would be one thing. But they aren't. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of them accidently catching a glimpse of me changing a tampon... you can totally see through the cracks in the doors sometimes, and these young men DO check to see if stalls are occupied.

Do these mothers have daughters? Do they want to send their seven-year-olds into a bathroom with young men?

Oh Crid, c'mon! The motive was robbery, but the crooks forgot to take diapers and formula with them - no wonder they left the kids on someone's front lawn! o.O

> threadjack yet another thread to
> make it all about me.

Every comment you make is all about you. We're on the internet, fer cryin' out loud: Abject narcissism is always forgiven, deceptive irresponsibility is not.

> someone else is relying upon you
> for their survival.

The people in your surrounding community 'survive' by answering responsibilities with foresight and sacrifice. It's kinda like the Canada guys who comment on US politics, Brian... You should make clear how really live each time you say something about this. It's important that people appreciated the complete impact of your reasoning about health risks.

Since the first visits in '03 ('04?), I've never seen Amy complain about topic drift... This blog is ideologically immune to 'jacking'.

> Constant worrying about the
> remotest events doesn't help

For some forgotten reason I was thinking of a old song last week... (It's short & painless, has Stanley Clarke on bass [I think] and George Duke on keyboards [I think]. It's more promising than late 70's R&B actually turned out to be.) That last verse always stuck in my head: "I wish I could protect you, child, from dues you'll have to pay."

(Thoughtful listeners can hear Frank Zappa's influence in that synth solo.)

I've never seen Amy complain about topic drift... This blog is ideologically immune to 'jacking'.

She isn't. I am. You turn just about every thread into an attack on me for not buying into your ideological concept of "shared civic responsibility".

And I'm tired of it. It's beginning to feel like you've got a message for me, and that message is "Go away."

I'm not. So stop bringing it up.

> I wonder, just who is making money
> off of scaring the crap out of us
> on a daily basis?

Broadcasters.

Trust me on this! These men aren't into soulcraft.

> Said Middle Daughter, "Aww, you
> been watching too much Lifetime!"

Favorite jokes:

The call it TV for women... So how come a woman is always being beaten up on that channel?

Do you ever feel suffocated when watching the Oxygen network?

Wooh, missed this one earlier!:

> Guess what - that's how you
> learn to pay attention.

We only learn from experience? Maybe colorectal cancer is how you learn to buy insurance....

> The second time I was 12 and knew
> better, and just took off running.

I usta go out with a busty woman who talked about getting propositioned by guys in cars when she was on the way to 7th grade. She was always savvy about it. But if I ever had a daughter I'd explain the facts of life to her, in the bluntest language available, the day she learned to walk.

> So stop bringing it up.

What, you're ashamed? You don't want people to know? Why would that be?

(PS- Only the threads where you talk about health care.)

"It's beginning to feel like you've got a message for me, and that message is "Go away."

What's the deal, Brian? Crid hasn't told you to go or even insinuated it. Is there something more maybe to his cryptic comments that we don't know about? Crid and I don't always agree, in fact, we rarely agree, but you gotta love the guy. He always brings an interesting perspective.

But I didn't mention health care, ASSHOLE. You did.

You take every opportunity to do so.

Because you are incapable of seeing the world from any viewpoint but your own. You are right, everyone else is wrong, and you have some God-given mission to ridicule them until they toe your line.

Seems kinda like a certain president we've all heard of.

> People with no medical problems
> have dropped dead of a heart
> attack at 37

Your real-life thoughts about risk seem precisely on point.

I am so loving Crid right now. He may even be my hero!

Welcome to the Dark Side of the Force. Dues in by the 1st, understood?

Your real-life thoughts about risk seem precisely on point.

If I die, what the fuck do I care? I'm DEAD.

Abject evasion– We're talking about gettin sick. Listen, if you're really this ashamed, maybe you should avoid commenting on topics dealing with insurance, and health care, and public finance for health risks. No one would notice, and there'd be plenty of room to swing your dick when Amy talks about other topics.

For example: Not being concerned with the expense your death can bring to others? Data point... Noted.

Right. And then in a topic where health isn't even involved, you'll pop in and decide I'm not allowed to comment there either.

Not gonna happen fella. You don't get to determine who is allowed to have an opinion, how they're allowed to voice it, or what that opinion ought to be. You don't get to set the minimum requirements for opinion having. You don't get to say "You must be this tall to ride this ride."

You are not the decider.

Although I can say thank you for finally being frank about the issue. You're tired of someone whom you feel hasn't paid the appropriate societal dues having opinions about an issue. Or as I keep saying, you're a bitter old man who's angry at the fact that he's pissed tens of thousands of dollars away for an eventuality that never came.

So most of you blame the traffic for not letting your kids walk or ride a bike to school, but you forget that YOU are the traffic you're so afraid of. Your children are more likely to get hurt riding with you at the wheel than from some other car while walking or biking. You are the rotten drivers, and those collision repair shops are full of your vehicles getting repaired because of your rotten driving skills.

Proper driving is as serious as a heart attack, yet you give driving safely no thought at all. If you value your children so much you would have two hands on the steering wheel in the proper position to maneuver your car instantly to prevent or minimize an accident. You'd be prepared to brake instantly with the correct pressure to maintain control of your car. You'd be prepared for a mechanical failure by your vehicle at any moment and still maintain control of your car. You'd be prepared to cause a lesser accident that is your fault than be involved in a greater accident that is the fault of another. I could go on and on about anticipating potential hazards ahead and being prepared instead of reacting stupidly when it's already too late. Are your windows and mirrors clean, mirrors and headlights adjusted properly, tires inflated properly, lights all properly functioning and horn working?

The horrible thing is that most people believe they are doing everything correctly, but the reality is they aren't, and aren't even aware that anything is wrong. I was riding shotgun with a friend the other night in a new Mazda. The guy is a decent driver, but I had to point out some flaws in his driving and some issues that affect his driving, much to his annoyance. The new Mazda's headlights were aimed too low (with a great beam cutoff if aimed properly) and you couldn't see properly more than about fifty feet in front of his car, leaving you at risk for objects in the road and animals (and yes, kids), which also contributed to his driving 10mph under the speed limit when with properly adjusted lights you could drive 20mph over the limit safely. Cops are just as likely to give you a ticket for driving too slow as too fast. I told him to make the dealer adjust the lights properly with him sitting at the wheel.

There were also about 15 stop-signs we had to stop at. I noticed that he wasn't stopping completly (an easy ticket) and after Cal-Stopping time after time I asked him why he didn't stop completly if he didn't want any tickets. He sincerely believed he was stopping completely so I made him actually stop each time, and then he realized he wasn't really coming to a halt. I also complained that his windshield was dirty (not for him but for the passenger) and making me seasick with my right eye looking through a bunch of dirt so I had go lean over toward him to get a clear view of the road to prevent motion sickness. Luckily he's (in general) a decent driver and intelligent enough to take my criticism properly and not to punch me or kick me out of his car.

You are your child's worst risk, so learn to drive correctly. It requires attention and effort, which may be too much for most of you.

Crid & Brian- I love your commentary! :)

My daughter is starting school(Kindergarten) next week. The bus stop is right around the corner. The particular corner her stop is at is very dangerous. It's a blind corner and you can't see around it while walking towards it. The cars come zipping around it at all speeds, even though the posted speed limit is right @ eye level. (No, there is no sidewalk until you get to the actual corner.) For that reason alone, I'll be walking with her, and waiting till the bus comes to pick her up. I'm not afraid of perverts or kidnappers.

When I was little, we lived in the ghetto, and I still walked to school by myself. The only problem I ever had was some assholes that tried to mug me. Thankfully, I was able to run to the drive thru where my moms friend worked. He chased them off. Mom called the cops, but there was nothing they could do except step up patrols. I still walked to school everyday after that. I never had to worry about anyone hitting me w/ a car like I do now in my upscale community.

> someone whom you feel hasn't
> paid the appropriate societal dues

No need for fancypants language: it's an integrity thing.

Wanna be sure you're expressing yourself fully, Brian. It's a holistic / zen approach to blog commentary... If it turned out that in real life, Raddy had no belief in the constitutional assignment of government responsibilities, it would be important for everyone to know that, too.

Besides -

> And then in a topic where health
> isn't even involved...

Then why did you mention it?

I am not going to touch all of the sidebars going on here today, but as a school crossing guard I can tell you that traffic is much worse than it used to be. I can not tell you how often I see people blow through the stop signs at my corner (my dh loves that I work a corner... ha..ha...) it pisses me off and the kids are in danger... the woman who lives closest to my corner and whose kid I see everyday is the one who has come closest to killing me... she was less than a foot away from running me down...of course she was on the cell phone... so she NEVER saw me!!! In fact, we were just issued break away vests just in case we get snagged on a passing SUV... that's a lovely thought isn't it?

The mornings are the worst b/c most people I see are in a hurry to drop off Jimmy (whose little ass could have been the bus my tax dollars pay for... that's a whole other, but related, topic)and get to work... heaven help you if you need to stop traffic to let the kids pass... most people are nice, but there are times when it gets ugly... one of my kids went home crying one day b/c some woman hung out of her car shouting abuse at me and he couldn't understand why she would be so mean to me for just doing my job...

And Brian... no we don't all have sidewalks here... when you have a yard the size of a postage stamp a sidewalk would take up half of it... trust me.... I miss sidewalks...

What Kristen said regarding Crid. He may well be the wind beneath my wings, too.

JJ: "collision repair shops are full of your vehicles getting repaired because of your rotten driving skills."

Who is this "you" to whom you refer? They're full of OUR vehicles? Maybe this blog isn't about what I thought it was about.

Robin,

you
pron.
Syn. yourself, you yourself, thee, thou, all of you, you too, you alone, you all*, y'all*.

> Who is this "you" to whom you refer?

Yeah. Years ago, I was flirting with this producer at work. (It's always a dark room, late at night...) As we were waiting on some mundane mechanical process —a tape rewinding or or signal patch or something— I said "So tell me a secret."

And she sat there for a second, and said "I hit a guy on a bicycle once." I've forgotten the details (perhaps on purpose), though I remember it was a complete accident... Coming around a corner, she signaled early, looked both ways, moved cautiously and never saw him. He lived.

She was really pretty, and never smiled as much as youd've expected, and after that I knew why. Every night before falling asleep I try set aside a moment to think clearly about the streets I'll be driving the next day, and how there's no need to speed through any of them, or get aggressive if someone cuts be off on Sunset... Chill out, watch your mirrors, eye contact, defensive driving.....

Ok, Crid, I do love you, really, truly!

Einstein: You... you... you...
Yakko: No, THIS is a ewe; we're just plain old us.

Yakko: How's it going, Scratchy?
Dr. Scratchensniff: I take umbrage at that.
Yakko: Oh, sure! Take all the umbrage. Don't leave any for us.

et tu j.j.hector?

Don't call me a you you.

Stan Laurel

What DID I miss? It's like watching the roller derby (people getting checked left and right) and I think Crid is in the lead...

Brian, I drive an SUV. It's irresponsible to drive motorcycles when others are depending on you...and even when they aren't. My family friend, his parents are caring for him and his father died a year ago and his mother, in her seventies now has terminal cancer...who's next?

His sister, a single mother supporting her family now has to take care of him. And now, her grown daughter who just got a job as an artist for Disney (her dream job), had quit and return home (now that her grandmother is sick) and now help her mother take care of her uncle because she also has an underage brother.

It ain't just all about you buck-o!

It's irresponsible to be irresponsible about your own responsibility. Blame the motorcycle (causes welfare), the gun (causes itchy trigger-finger), the knife (causes sudden thrusting), the other driver (frees me from looking at myself in the mirror). Hey, let's blame global warming on your SUV Feebie, so stop it already. Hitch that SUV up to the sun and drag it away a little already, just be prepared to drag it back when things cool down.

Was he insured? What good did it do him? Fuck all, you say?

It's irresponsible to drive motorcycles when others are depending on you...and even when they aren't.

What gives you the right to make that determination? Is it irresponsible to drive a Smart Car too? How about snowboarding?

At what point can I safely say that my life belongs to me and not to everyone else around me?

Or am I condemned to put myself last forever?

JJ - It is irresponsible to drive those things around unless you are an orphan or have more money than god. Especially with those little fucking half helmets (do you have one of those?)

Taking unnecessary risks with your own life DOES impact others. Brian, this is all because you brought up everyone needing to learn how to drive a motorcycle and that somehow, you were in control. You are not... So don't bust my chops Mr. Uninsured.

The other driver only had minimum limits. Family friend was insured, but obviously not being able to work anymore...so he had to go on to medicare/social security.

It's not about insurance, the money is there (to meet minimums) but his family, despite his irresponsibility does not want to leave him to rot in a rest home. You see, it hurts eveyone else more than anything to see a loved one sipping through a fucking straw...especially his mother.

And -Screw global warming.

"JJ - It is irresponsible to drive those things around unless you are an orphan or have more money than god. Especially with those little fucking half helmets (do you have one of those?)

Taking unnecessary risks with your own life DOES impact others. Brian, this is all because you brought up everyone needing to learn how to drive a motorcycle and that somehow, you were in control. You are not... So don't bust my chops Mr. Uninsured."

Actually Feebie, I don't even like motorcycles nor have I ever owned one, but it's not my place to deem anyone irresponsible if they like 'em and ride 'em. I do happen to like racing, so I watch MotoGP, and if I were to ride a motorcycle I'd have the proper safety attire on, but that too is my choice.

Life is a risky business and one should minimize risk using their intelligence. Some things are riskier than others, such as riding a motorcycle versus driving a car, but at least motorcycle riders in general are much more aware of the risk than the dopes driving cars around them. Do you leave room for motorcycles to get by you in traffic? Do you bitch because motorcycles riding at the edges of lanes instead of the middle? Do you think about the center of a lane having a lot of fluid droppings which would cause a motorcycle to not brake as well?

You do realize that one can purchase uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage so that when someone hits you with minimum limits your own insurance kicks in? Your friend could have had a million bucks of um/ui coverage if he wanted to. Apparently his coverage was at a level of risk he felt was right or he wouldn't have had it so low, or he wasn't willing to pay for the risk. As a friend why didn't you review his insurance to see if he could take car of himself and his family for every possibilty of risk that life entails?

Fear of risk is a risky business.

Taking unnecessary risks with your own life DOES impact others. Brian, this is all because you brought up everyone needing to learn how to drive a motorcycle and that somehow, you were in control. You are not... So don't bust my chops Mr. Uninsured.

So now you're gonna jump on Crid's Moral Superiority Bandwagon too? Let's do a little math here. Let's assume, for sake of argument, that I had gold-plated insurance from the time I left college until now. Actually, I did for the first 8 years of it. All I would have paid in is about 50-60 grand.

How fast do you think your friend burned through that? After that point, every penny the insurance company pays out is someone else's money. So get off my back.

Oh, and if I'm not in control who is? God? Because if so, he's doing a piss-poor job of it.

And one last thing - you're engaging in the fallacy of anecdotal evidence. Because you and I know someone who was injured or killed in a motorcycle accident, it does not follow that I will also be killed or injured in a motorcycle accident.

You can use your anecdotal evidence to guide your life choices, and even to validate them. Do not assume that you have the right to use them to dictate mine.

> Let's assume, for sake of argument,
> that I had gold-plated insurance
> from the time I left college
> until now.

For a guy who claims to be technically educated, you have no understanding of probability. NOW you know you weren't going to get cancer... Before, you didn't. You know nothing of the future, nothing at all, besides probability.

I live in a 25mph zone 25 yrds from a "deaf child in area" sign.

When they were widening the main road people started using my street as a detour around the construction slowed traffic.

They did not do the posted speed limit.

I tried rigging a cataput to fling an old child sized CPR doll across the road but it never panned out, so I bought a half dozen rubber balls from the dollar store.

If I happened to be outside when I heard an car moving faster than it should I'd kick a ball down the drivway and out into the road.

Nearly cause a couple of rear end collision on a couple of occasions.

Maybe we need to have a referendum about nanny state laws. Those who vote "yes" can be subject to them and taxed to pay for them.

Sorry, Feebie, people who drive SUVs lose the right to say, "It's not all about you". Obviously you think it IS all about you. Which is fine. But Brian gets that right too.

Brian - Completely understand that you won't care if you're dead. You'll be dead. But who does that leave behind to care about the tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills you may have run up on your way out. You keep saying they'll get their money. How exactly would that be?

" live in a 25mph zone 25 yrds from a "deaf child in area" sign.

When they were widening the main road people started using my street as a detour around the construction slowed traffic.

They did not do the posted speed limit.

I tried rigging a cataput to fling an old child sized CPR doll across the road but it never panned out, so I bought a half dozen rubber balls from the dollar store.

If I happened to be outside when I heard an car moving faster than it should I'd kick a ball down the drivway and out into the road.

Nearly cause a couple of rear end collision on a couple of occasions."

Funny, I've never seen a "Deaf Child in Area" sign as an offical traffic sign. "Angry Vigilante Locals Imposing Our Own Laws In Area" might get a better response. So you have verfied your audio speed estimations with a radar gun? I find that the sound of a car generally indicates RPM rather than speed. I was driving down a dark residential street at 9pm after a turn. I'm driving 15mph in a 25 zone as I see an idiot up ahead standing in the street, so I don't bother to shift out of 1st gear and my engine in my BMW is doing 5000rpm (still doing 15mph) and makes some noise. As I approach the guy moves out of the actual street and when I go by him, he throws something and runs down the street yelling at me to slow down so I kept him running for a block by teasing him with my speed, which of course was completey safe and within the law.

Now it's very possible you do have a problem, and there are other solutions than committing the crime of throwing objects at cars which isn't thinking of minimizing risk to the children, yours or anyone's.

Hell, you could do what me and my little bro did. We stood on the sides of the street so we could be seen by oncoming traffic, and then when a car approached we'd pull back on an imaginary rope/wire/string so the driver thought there was something in the way and we'd run and roll on the ground laughing when they smoked their tires doing an emergency stop for nothing. We were bad boys.

You could try this one too: Get a pomegranate and ram a decent sized firecracker down the stem. Be sure to time the fuse correctly, then throw (timing is everything) the pomegrenade over the road so you get an airburst and it rains that lovely juice all over the car. Or you could sit in an olive tree with a Wrist-Rocket . . .

NicholeK -

I got stuck with the SUV. It was bought with my ex fiance because we were planning a family. (Before I found out a few things).

I took responsibility for it and sold my car (which I loved, a little honda) to do the right thing after he couldnt afford to keep it after the split up. I've tried to sell it in this market and I would have taken a huge loss.

I took on the burden because ultimately it was my responsibility. Better a poor choice on a car than a poor choice on a partner (with a family following).

I have excellent hearing, I can hear the difference between 3000rpms in first gear and 2nd

Aw c'mon, Nicole... Sometimes a car is just a car. It's not a penetrating, explicit insight in the workings of the inner life. I wish fewer people had huge SUVs, but were truly haven't worked the policy very well in this regard.

I spend a lot of time on this blog saying this-or-that isn't a a policy problem. But I think that SUVs and the explosion of obesity are, in fact, policy problems.

Even if turns out that fat people in huge cars is the pinnacle of human development and something for which we should be proud, we haven't constructed our social, political and physical environment to deal with it.

Sorry, Feebie, people who drive SUVs lose the right to say, "It's not all about you". Obviously you think it IS all about you. Which is fine.

The term "SUV" covers a lot of ground. An "SUV" is anything from a giant Ford Excursion to a tiny Toyota RAV-4 ... and also includes several hybrid-engined vehicles.

Not everyone with an SUV is a suburban commando or a soccer mom on a power trip?

> Not everyone with an SUV is a
> suburban commando or a soccer
> mom on a power trip

Word.

I have excellent hearing, I can hear the difference between 3000rpms in first gear and 2nd

Tire noise is the dead giveaway.

Well, that and the DB driving on the wrong side of the road to pass a Buick that's already going 40 in a 25.

I'm not normally a "there oughta be a law" kind of guy, but given the complete lack of concern for life evidenced in the modern teen, I could get behind a horsepower limitation for the under-18 crowd. Either that, or hold the parents responsible for the mayhem their whelps cause with $30,000 255-hp Subarus at 120 mph on the wrong side of the road as they drive into a truck and kill everyone inside including their 15 year old sister and her best friend.

It's a Honda Pilot. And as soon as the ex quits the childish antics (not signing the papers to spite me - a year and a half later) I can sell it without a loss. Right now the only way to sell it without a lil thing called a pink slip - is by taking it to a dealer. It's a bloody headache..but I'm not asking for anyone else to bail my ass out. I should have known better.

It's too big for a single gal like myself - and I would not have purchased it KNOWING what was about to happen. Not economical, it's excessive in gas - and although I don't believe in the whole global warming religion - it is wasteful. I don't like waste. If I had kids in the car, it would be worth the extra gas and pollution for safety and convenience, but I'll admit, for someone like me -it aint.

And Brian, I don't care what you do. I don't care if they reappeal all helmet and sidecar laws. The fact of the matter is, when I see folks commuting in traffic, on a motorcycle, I shake my head. Because if ONE person out of the thousands commuting is not paying attention - they are toast. A motorcyclist has more probability of meeting an untimely death (or worse)than anyone driving a car (even if it is a matchbox). And that ALWAYS will affect their families.

So when I see them, I don't think "we need to pass laws against this". I just think to myself they are irresponsible and in some cases, yes, selfish. Because if they wind up like my friend, it doesn't just impact him - his whole family has been drained, financially, emotionally, physically. I love the man, but it was irresponsible.

The other driver, on the cell phone...was only doing about 25-30 mph. And my friend had been riding bikes for years. It was the other drivers fault, 100% - something my friend couldn't control.

Feeb - when I got the bike, everyone took it upon themselves to regale me with tales of those they knew who got killed in hideous fashion on a bike.

Life is risk. You can't predict what's going to happen. And contrary to what the commercials say, you can't necessarily prepare either.

You can try to minimize your exposure. You can live in a bubble.

Or you can just live.

Ya Brain there are some laws restricting younger drivers from owning high power vehicles like that in Australia. Interesting to see how it works out.

Was going to comment more but got to tun to work.

Brian - I am not telling you what to do, dear. No sense in that - is there. I am just telling you what *I* think.

I think there is a good middle ground to be made between a bubble and expecting your loved ones to change your diapers if "shit goes down".

Mojoe, I'm from Peabody, Ma. Downtown's more crowded than it used to be, but my parents' neighborhood is pretty much unchanged. Hingham's a nice place!

"I just don't have the experience that parents are as whiny and overprotective as the author seems to believe. "

In general parents are getting touchier and they are more worried about sex crimes. In Maine a bill was introduced against 'visual sexual aggression' where staring at a child in public could be considered a felony. Men have been arrested in Britain for taking pictures in public, out of concern they were 'targeting' children. A couple were fathers who took pictures of their own kids, but got other kids in the frame.

The fact that nearly 100% of elementary school kids are now taken to school in their parents' cars and picked up again after school is bizarre. I gave my dad a break a few years back and would pick up my niece in the afternoons. The grandparents waiting for their grand kids to get out of school nearly all thought it was overboard, mothers within earshot would almost invariably say 'Well once they're kidnapped it's too late, isn't it?' Who is it that is lurking in the bushes waiting to pick off all these undistinguished middle-class kids? ;-) It's not like it's a neighborhood of oil barons....my mother sometimes remarks that she's afraid of a home invasion! I just roll my eyes...

of those that are walking distance, should have clarified. Kids more than a couple miles away ride the buses.

I think there is a good middle ground to be made between a bubble and expecting your loved ones to change your diapers if "shit goes down".

That's as may be. But shit can go down in ways you would never consider possible. And there is not a fucking thing you can do about it. All the insurance in the world won't protect you.

I'm willing to take the risk of riding a motorcycle. The experience makes it worthwhile. If I had a kid, I'd probably park the thing. Why? Because at that point a finite risk that I can easily eliminate is prudent.

But shit can go down in ways you would never consider possible. And there is not a fucking thing you can do about it.

OH, okay.

> I'm willing to take the risk of
> riding a motorcycle.

And you're ready to insist that your surrounding community wipe your pink butt cheeks (without promise of payment) if your hit your head on the curb. You poor little pumpkin, "condemned to put myself last" in a world that doesn't care.... Tragic. Heartbreaking. Tissue city: Make mine Kleenex®. Brian would have wanted it that way!

> Who is it that is lurking in the
> bushes waiting to pick off all
> these undistinguished middle-class
> kids?

Exceptionally good question. I got into fight with my work scheduler in about 1993 when he was all worried that biology scientists were going to clone a race of super-killer zombie warriors who were going to overwhelm the United States and sniff Hillary's undergarments.... Until I reminded him that mistreated, violence-spirited warriors were a dime a dozen anyway. We're in Los Angeles, fer Chrissake... You don't need no test tubes. It's Riot Season. We're mid-Wilshire, I can get you to South-Central in 20 minutes.

Last time I rode a bike I was 16, it was an 80's series yamaha my cousin's 13 yr old cousin (does that make him a second cousin?) had re-built.

Kid was good with his hands, unfortunatly he put the brakes on the wrong side, I was the second person to ride it, going down the road comming up on a curve I hit what I thought was the back brake, front wheel locked and the next thing I knew I was sliding down the dirt road just past the curve with a bike riding me. Dont know how I walked away from that with just a couple of brusies

Just saw this...and then it's off to bed.

"You do realize that one can purchase uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage so that when someone hits you with minimum limits your own insurance kicks in? Your friend could have had a million bucks of um/ui coverage if he wanted to."

No! You don't say!

I DO realize one can purchase such limits.

(In my best Marisa-Tomei-My-Cousin-Vinnie voice) "But wait...theys mwoah"

Did you know it is not recoverable if it is a hit and run driver - because you can't prove if they were uninsured or underinsured? (that wasn't the case here, I'm just being a shit).

I don't remember if he had it, but it was peanuts in the grand scheme of things. He has been this way for 15 years now. And while I don't pretend to dismiss the financial cost (to society via social security and medicare) of this fiasco, your missing the bigger picture.

It would be the fact that his family now has to rearrange their lives because of his poor and irresponsible decision. And that his mother, should have been enjoying her golden years with her husband. Instead, they are both have or are going to die in their seventies spending their last moments in life changing diapers and caring for their grown son up until their last dying breath. Because this is what decent parents will do. So now, what should decent children do?

I would suggest a little humility and acknowledgement that you are not the only one impacted when you choose to engage in behaviors that are extra risky.

given the guy hasnt been human for the last 15yrs why are they keeping him alive?

Why should I feel sorry for those who willingly tie a mill stone around their necks before jumpig into the pond?

OK, one more (i was looking over a horrendous typo and you just popped in luj).

He was a veggie for the first couple of years. His mom never lost hope. She worked with him every day. He finally got his speech back (only speaking German because that was the first language he learned). So, right now, he is living life as a five year old (mentally). But physically, he is crippled.

He smiles, he recognizes people, he eats, he laughs, he talks a bit. His mother would drive him 100 miles each day to a special center for brain injury recovery because she never lost hope that one day he may recover just a little bit more to be functional enough to be more independent.

While he did get better for a while his progressed has now ceased.

And luj, if you knew this woman, I doubt you would have had the courage to say that to her face.

Nite.

I think it was the combination of the SUV and the statement "Fuck global warming". That frankly shows an attitude of NOT caring for other people, at least when it comes to the road. I'm not saying don't drive an SUV, I'm saying don't tell other people -they- are uncaring about the road. But I understand inheritence, sounds like you got a good trade.

Other vehicles besides motorcycles can get into accidents and kill or maim people. Brian, I hope you wear a helmet, mine saved my life when I wiped out on my moped. (Hit a spot of sand on the road on the border of Somerville and Medford for you MA folks of which there seem to be many).

You know what I hate? Bicyclists that refuse to follow traffic laws... mowing down pedestrians by running red lights, driving up one way streets, etc.

Re: "Fuck global warming":

I don't think it shows an attitude of Not Caring. I care about people being scammed by the global warming/climate change/whatever they're calling it today enforcers who fly around in private jets from their numerous massive homes to lecture the little people on the need to "sacrifice", while calling people who disagree with their "settled" science Nazis. See: Al Gore/Prince Charles/Sting, etc. When they all move into hovels and ride bikes, I MIGHT begin to take them seriously. If the science doesn't appear to have been faked.

I do find it highly amusing that unseasonably cold weather follows Gore around the planet whenever he schedules a "major" speech on climate change.

crid:

And you're ready to insist that your surrounding community wipe your pink butt cheeks (without promise of payment) if your hit your head on the curb. You poor little pumpkin, "condemned to put myself last" in a world that doesn't care.... Tragic. Heartbreaking. Tissue city: Make mine Kleenex®. Brian would have wanted it that way!

Like I said, if and/or when I get insurance, I'm not going to say a damn thing. This melodrama is just so precious.

Besides, do you have any illusions that insurance is going to cover a fucking thing if I end up in that condition? Hells no. Once the premiums stop, they're gonna bail and that's it for me, fella.

But if there's anybody that Obama is counting on, it's you, not me. You're the one who's going to agree to give him what he wants when he promises to make the young pay their fair share.

Feebie:

I would suggest a little humility and acknowledgement that you are not the only one impacted when you choose to engage in behaviors that are extra risky.

I would suggest that you don't have the right to suggest that.

NicoleK:

Brian, I hope you wear a helmet, mine saved my life when I wiped out on my moped.

Although the helmetless option does offer one advantage - you're far more likely to just die on scene than be horribly injured. So it's got that going for it.

Robin:

When they all move into hovels and ride bikes, I MIGHT begin to take them seriously. If the science doesn't appear to have been faked.

It hasn't been science. It's been eliminationist rhetoric from day one. These are the same people (Hansen, Ehrlich, etc.) who were pushing communism as the only way to prevent the coming ice age that man's consumption was going to trigger. That was in 1975. When that didn't happen, they turned to the greenhouse effect and global warming.

Now that we've had 10 years of increasing CO2 and no increase in temperature, they're running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

And the health-care debate is the next place they're hoping to finally get the means to be rid of us pesky untermensch.

I said it to my grandma when i was 12

...enforcers who fly around in private jets from their numerous massive homes to lecture the little people on the need to "sacrifice".... When they all move into hovels and ride bikes, I MIGHT begin to take them seriously.

I'm getting a little tired of celebrities emerging briefly from their 28,000 square foot mansions to tell me I'm killing the planet by driving to the grocery store in my 8-year-old paid-off car. But it's okay for them to fly around in private jets because they once paid someone to plant a tree or because one of their twelve vehicles is a Prius.

"I would suggest that you don't have the right to suggest that."

Weeeaaaakkkkk!

And NicholeK - I believe I said Screw Global Warming. If you're gonna quote me, minus well get it right.

Not enough evidence for me to believe it is a man made occurrence. The Earth has heated and cooled many times in our past (sans humans). Now, we can talk about air pollution and cruddy contaminated water all you'd like.

I will never, ever get behind Gore on ANYTHING. Not since finding out about his large shares in an Engergy Co. in the Southwest that is strip mining for materials and polluting native american waters and lands...rendering them sick from radiation poisoning and other ailments (and they've got government health care too boot!)

I once read an acrticle that claimed were it not for the global warming effects of neolithic(maybe it was bronze age) chineese creating massive artiical swamps to cultivate rice the world would have slid back into an ice age that would have killed any humans outside of Africa, and posible those within it as well.

It claimed mankind owed its existance to global warming.

I'll see if I can find it

"You do realize that one can purchase uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage so that when someone hits you with minimum limits your own insurance kicks in? Your friend could have had a million bucks of um/ui coverage if he wanted to."

No! You don't say!

I DO realize one can purchase such limits.

(In my best Marisa-Tomei-My-Cousin-Vinnie voice) "But wait...theys mwoah"

Did you know it is not recoverable if it is a hit and run driver - because you can't prove if they were uninsured or underinsured? (that wasn't the case here, I'm just being a shit)."

Feebie, here in California you need to provide a license plate for the uninsured motorist property damage (or collision deductible waiver) coverage, but not for the um/uim bodily injury coverage (medical and loss of income) and hit & run is considered um. That means if you're sitting in your parked car and someone rams it and you don't get the plate you have to pay the umpd/cdw deductible, but you still get the medical and loss of income coverage that umbi/uimbi provides. Your state could be different.

It's too bad you have to use Ms. Tomei's scriptwriter as your automotive repair and insurance source. I based my knowledge of the subject on my being an insurance agent, an expert mechanic as I've done all my own auto repair work for 42 years, worked as a freelance automotive writer and photographer for the last 36 years and have never had an accident other than on a racetrack in my 42 years of driving. I know how to put air in a tire, check my fluids and make sure my lugnuts/bolts are torqued to proper spec. My wealth of expericence makes me a very good judge of dopes at the wheel.

Ms. Tomei's character would have dumped Joe for me in a heartbeat.

JJ - I certainly could have explained it better. You ARE right about the PD/BI, part. See, serves me right for bein' a lil, shit eh?

Yes, I am in CA. And was a practicing broker here for a few years. I did however work in a front end and tire shop in HS and just out of HS before I went into insurance.

(and I absolutely loved Tomei's charachter in that movie.)

"Ms. Tomei's character would have dumped Joe for me in a heartbeat."

No argument there...

"I'm getting a little tired of celebrities emerging briefly from their 28,000 square foot mansions to tell me I'm killing the planet by driving to the grocery store in my 8-year-old paid-off car. But it's okay for them to fly around in private jets because they once paid someone to plant a tree or because one of their twelve vehicles is a Prius."

Absolutely. I have often thought that some of the people who bleat the loudest in the media about this issue surely must have some of the most environmentally destructive lifestyles in America.