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A two-faced politician? I've never heard of such a thing!
Tyler
at August 4, 2009 9:43 AM
We should wallop rich people with a tax, and start a single-payor system. Wipe out "suing doctors for dollars" and limit total medical outlays to 10 percent of GDP.
Next problem.
And oh, stop the whining. Life is not fair. Maybe you pay more taxes. Boo-hoo. Get over it.
i-holier-than-thou
at August 4, 2009 1:50 PM
Since there aren't enough rich and middle class people to pay for a single payer system, I say we soak the statists: have a national referendum and keep track of who votes "yes". Tax those people extra and use the proceeds for health care vouchers for everyone.
And I agree, stop the whining. Not everybody can afford life-saving medical treatment. Boo-hoo. Get over it.
Pseudonym
at August 4, 2009 2:16 PM
Read again, ninny: Limit outlays to 10 percent of GDP. We already spend more than that on health care. This would be a reduction in medical spending as a fraction of GDP, down to levels of Europe.
And yes, euthanasia (usually not clearly stated) is necessary, under anyone's plan, unless we do want to go bankrupt.
Who is going to pay for Amy Alkon's mounting medical bills for the next 45 years? Not her, unless she hits it big. I don't want to.
Obviously, past 80 (in another 35 years for Alkon) we are going to have to cut Alkon loose. Past 80, she can pay for herself, or take drugs and die. Same for me, BTW.
80 years of living is a good life, why burden society after that?
i-holier-than-thou
at August 4, 2009 2:46 PM
Who is going to pay for Amy Alkon's mounting medical bills for the next 45 years? Not her, unless she hits it big. I don't want to.
Since she has insurance, ninny, you won't. Unless of course Congress passes a national single-payer health plan and your taxes pay for her care.
kishke
at August 4, 2009 3:28 PM
No way Alkon can afford it. The monthly insurance bills will start hitting $1k a month when hits 55, then race higher with any medical problems and age. $2-3k a month is easy.
She might consider Thailand for care until she gets to 65, and Medicare after that(which I pay for, and so do you).
So the libertarian is basically going to fall into socialist arms at 65. Medicare.
In a free market, she would just have to die. In fact, that is the option I advise--euthansia. It is too expensive to keep a lot of old people alive in any bona-fide free market system. It may be too expensive even if subsidized.
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/the-real-deal-o.html#comment-1661119">comment from kishke
Who is going to pay for Amy Alkon's mounting medical bills for the next 45 years?
Same person who's been paying for the previous 24 years, for every single month of them. Hint: Initials are A.A., she writes an advice column, and just finished a book that's coming out in the U.S. on November 27, 2009.
Somebody hasn't figured out that people who go find this and pay for it subsidize those who don't.
But that doesn't interfere with making things up, out of impotence.
Radwaste
at August 4, 2009 4:32 PM
Brave talk, Alkon. And when your deductible hits $18k a year? And your monthly payments are $2,150?
Authors rarely make much dough. After all the writing, and hawking and getting up at 4 am to be on am radio East Coast at 6-7 am...we are talking minimum wage. Or less.
Good luck.
Of course, even if you hit it big (and I hope you do) it leaves aside the question if what if you don't?
You are essentially saying, "I am going to be rich, therefore I can handle it."
Deux ex machina.
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/the-real-deal-o.html#comment-1661129">comment from i-holier-than-thou
Brave talk, Alkon. And when your deductible hits $18k a year? And your monthly payments are $2,150?
Uh, I considered this when I chose my health care. I have Kaiser HMO. I'm 45 and I could pay about $145 a month, but I chose to pay more -- $339, for the absolute top level of care. Lesser care would probably be okay, but I have no lifetime spending maximum. The $145 plan has a $5 million maximum. I got into Kaiser in my 20s, rather than opting for Blue Cross because I felt it would be a prudent lifetime plan.
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/the-real-deal-o.html#comment-1661130">comment from Amy Alkon
Oh, and I pay $25 for office visits, and I paid $30 for six months of Ritalin a few days ago. Or maybe eight months worth. And frankly, I'm slim, take good care of myself, barely drink, and I'm a nonsmoker. Also, seem to have good genes, if Grandpa Jack, who climbed his apple tree into his early 90s, was any indication. The rest of them lived long, sans health problems, as well.
> Hint: Initials are A.A., she writes an advice
> column, and just finished a book that's
> coming out in the U.S. on November 27, 2009.
Tough one... can you give some more clues... ;)
Snoopy
at August 4, 2009 5:37 PM
i-hole:
A little remedial math for you. If we were to tax the top 1% of earners at 100%, we would get about 1.3 trillion dollars. For the government to completely take over health care art present costs, we're talking 3-4 trillion a year.
Where's the rest of the money supposed to come from?
And you're pretty much espousing a "duty to die". I do not wish to live in a society that finds such a thing acceptable.
If you think euthanasia is so great, I have only one thing to say:
Amy-
Surely, you know you are in the age bracket anybody would like to insure. The gap is from 55 to 65. If you should have any serious, or sort-of serious health issues around age 55, you are going to face monthly health insurance premiums in four digits--every month. Plus a luxury-car downpayment sized annual deductible.
Why will we have national health insurance? Actually, people like Amy will tip the balance. The Amys of the world will get to age 55 (in huge numbers now, the baby boom is turning grey), but so many are rugged individualists and self-employed. Of course, lots of us can't find steady work even if we try--and it gets rather hard after age 50, as I can attest.
So, here we are: Brave New World and all that--but those health insurance monthly premiums at $1,300 look scary.
We vote for national health insurance.
Amy, you have 10 years left. Then you will face the wall--your body will start falling apart, and Kaiser will want $900 a month. Then, the rent. Car insurance. And those unmet personal desires.
Then those boys wake you up at 2 am closing time, and ridicule your claims of taking care of a baby, as you are an "old bag." They call you "Grannie!"
That's about time gun control will make sense. Because those boys better put out or get shot. Literally.
It's a schlub's life. Waiting for you. You have one foot in now. Shopping at thrift stores. Clipping coupons to fast food joints. Home perms and color jobs. The car with the ripped Landau roof. And honking about libertarianism for a few bucks. Blogging for dollars.
But waiting for the days you can embrace that socialistic Medicare and Social Security. Home Sweet Home. Well, home, anyway.
It's a schlub's life.
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/the-real-deal-o.html#comment-1661152">comment from i-holier-than-thou
Amy- Surely, you know you are in the age bracket anybody would like to insure. The gap is from 55 to 65. If you should have any serious, or sort-of serious health issues around age 55, you are going to face monthly health insurance premiums in four digits--every month. Plus a luxury-car downpayment sized annual deductible.
Look, I'm sorry you seem to be driven to make an ass of yourself, but there's a reason I joined what's probably the best HMO in the country, Kaiser Permanente, and it's to avoid that sort of thing. They have a flat rate. Flat rate. FLAT RATE. Meaning, if I get sick, if I stay well, I pay the same price. Same price. SAME PRICE.
Once again, I chose my health care very, very carefully, to avoid what you're talking about above. Flat rate. Flat rate. Flat rate. That's what I pay. Plus $25 for office visits and $25-30 for prescriptions. I've been with Kaiser since my 20s, and intend to stay with them.
Googled the flat rate thing, and here's another person talking about it:
Go with Kaiser.
Initially I had some reluctance to sign up for Kaiser imagining I'd get little more than substandard treatment and impersonal service. Instead we opted for a high deductible health plan. BIG MISTAKE.
While my husband and I were both healthy it was fine (ie until we had to go to the doctor). There are routine visits that should have been covered from 3 years ago that Im trying to get the company to pay for. Over the course of this time premiums have increased and coverage has decreased. We've gone from paying 30% out of pocket to 40% out of pocket.
But when things really became a problem was when my husband developed colitis. Now not only do we have to pay huge deductibles for expensive procedures, we're stuck with this plan. Unless we lie about this new ''preexisting condition'' no other insurance will cover him.
Im still healthy and managed to escape to Kaiser and I couldn't be happier. I get full service coverage for a flat rate that wont change if I develop a chronic problem. The care has been amazing, beyond what I ever got from a private physician. anon
Look, I'm sorry you seem to be driven to make an ass of yourself - Amy to i-haveastickinmy-asshole
I'm not, the douchebag is entertaining.
lujlp
at August 4, 2009 9:34 PM
If you should have any serious, or sort-of serious health issues around age 55, you are going to face monthly health insurance premiums in four digits
Not sure where you're getting your numbers, I-hole, but you need to shop a little harder. I'm 60, with blood pressure and cholesterol issues for which I take four prescription meds, and my health insurance costs $537 a month. And that's going down to $318 since I just switched to Kaiser. My wife, who's 56 with no medical issues, pays $142.
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/the-real-deal-o.html#comment-1661185">comment from Rex Little
Congrats on switching, Rex. And those who know little about actual cost of health care should try spouting off less -- and maybe even switching to Kaiser.
PS If I e-mail my doctor with a question, she typically e-mails me back in about an hour. Free of charge!
We don't have enough rich and middle class people to pay for anything that costs 10 percent of GDP. Total tax revenues are around 18% of GDP (regardless of rate, interestingly) so you're talking more than half of the federal budget. Good luck getting Congress to cut the military etc.
We already spend more than that on health care.
People who want to receive timely, quality care will continue to pay for it like they do now, in addition to whatever taxes they have to pay for a nationalized system. The only way that won't happen is if the gov't prohibits it. Is that what you advocate?
Pseudonym
at August 5, 2009 5:30 AM
Amy, what if you're out of state or out of country, where Kaiser doesn't have facilities; do they cover your treatment there?
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/the-real-deal-o.html#comment-1661208">comment from kishke
Yes.
Of course, this doesn't mean you get to go to the dermatologist in France while on vacation and have him check your moles. It's if you have an emergency while out of their coverage area.
You need to consider what state you are in. Kaiser is not available where I live (the only way is if say I worked for a large company based in L.A. and had small office here and they took out a policy that covered all employees).
The cheapest non-catestrophic insurance I could find last year was about $600/month. The cheapest was $350/month with a $10,000 deductable and a $500,000 max benefit. I don't know what I will be able to do once I fall off my former employer's plan - but right now it is clearly the best option.
The big HMO in this state is know as "Death Valley" because they are not very good.
Former Banker
at August 5, 2009 2:22 PM
"And oh, stop the whining. Life is not fair. Maybe you pay more taxes. Boo-hoo. Get over it."
Let me fix that for you:
Oh, and stop the whining. Life is not fair. Maybe you pay more for your health insurance. Boo-Hoo. Get over it.
A two-faced politician? I've never heard of such a thing!
Tyler at August 4, 2009 9:43 AM
We should wallop rich people with a tax, and start a single-payor system. Wipe out "suing doctors for dollars" and limit total medical outlays to 10 percent of GDP.
Next problem.
And oh, stop the whining. Life is not fair. Maybe you pay more taxes. Boo-hoo. Get over it.
i-holier-than-thou at August 4, 2009 1:50 PM
Since there aren't enough rich and middle class people to pay for a single payer system, I say we soak the statists: have a national referendum and keep track of who votes "yes". Tax those people extra and use the proceeds for health care vouchers for everyone.
And I agree, stop the whining. Not everybody can afford life-saving medical treatment. Boo-hoo. Get over it.
Pseudonym at August 4, 2009 2:16 PM
Read again, ninny: Limit outlays to 10 percent of GDP. We already spend more than that on health care. This would be a reduction in medical spending as a fraction of GDP, down to levels of Europe.
And yes, euthanasia (usually not clearly stated) is necessary, under anyone's plan, unless we do want to go bankrupt.
Who is going to pay for Amy Alkon's mounting medical bills for the next 45 years? Not her, unless she hits it big. I don't want to.
Obviously, past 80 (in another 35 years for Alkon) we are going to have to cut Alkon loose. Past 80, she can pay for herself, or take drugs and die. Same for me, BTW.
80 years of living is a good life, why burden society after that?
i-holier-than-thou at August 4, 2009 2:46 PM
Who is going to pay for Amy Alkon's mounting medical bills for the next 45 years? Not her, unless she hits it big. I don't want to.
Since she has insurance, ninny, you won't. Unless of course Congress passes a national single-payer health plan and your taxes pay for her care.
kishke at August 4, 2009 3:28 PM
No way Alkon can afford it. The monthly insurance bills will start hitting $1k a month when hits 55, then race higher with any medical problems and age. $2-3k a month is easy.
She might consider Thailand for care until she gets to 65, and Medicare after that(which I pay for, and so do you).
So the libertarian is basically going to fall into socialist arms at 65. Medicare.
In a free market, she would just have to die. In fact, that is the option I advise--euthansia. It is too expensive to keep a lot of old people alive in any bona-fide free market system. It may be too expensive even if subsidized.
i-holier-than-thou at August 4, 2009 3:42 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/the-real-deal-o.html#comment-1661119">comment from kishkeWho is going to pay for Amy Alkon's mounting medical bills for the next 45 years?
Same person who's been paying for the previous 24 years, for every single month of them. Hint: Initials are A.A., she writes an advice column, and just finished a book that's coming out in the U.S. on November 27, 2009.
Amy Alkon
at August 4, 2009 3:43 PM
Somebody hasn't figured out that people who go find this and pay for it subsidize those who don't.
But that doesn't interfere with making things up, out of impotence.
Radwaste at August 4, 2009 4:32 PM
Brave talk, Alkon. And when your deductible hits $18k a year? And your monthly payments are $2,150?
Authors rarely make much dough. After all the writing, and hawking and getting up at 4 am to be on am radio East Coast at 6-7 am...we are talking minimum wage. Or less.
Good luck.
Of course, even if you hit it big (and I hope you do) it leaves aside the question if what if you don't?
You are essentially saying, "I am going to be rich, therefore I can handle it."
Deux ex machina.
i-holier-than-thou at August 4, 2009 4:54 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/the-real-deal-o.html#comment-1661129">comment from i-holier-than-thouBrave talk, Alkon. And when your deductible hits $18k a year? And your monthly payments are $2,150?
Uh, I considered this when I chose my health care. I have Kaiser HMO. I'm 45 and I could pay about $145 a month, but I chose to pay more -- $339, for the absolute top level of care. Lesser care would probably be okay, but I have no lifetime spending maximum. The $145 plan has a $5 million maximum. I got into Kaiser in my 20s, rather than opting for Blue Cross because I felt it would be a prudent lifetime plan.
Next question, snarker?
Amy Alkon
at August 4, 2009 5:33 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/the-real-deal-o.html#comment-1661130">comment from Amy AlkonOh, and I pay $25 for office visits, and I paid $30 for six months of Ritalin a few days ago. Or maybe eight months worth. And frankly, I'm slim, take good care of myself, barely drink, and I'm a nonsmoker. Also, seem to have good genes, if Grandpa Jack, who climbed his apple tree into his early 90s, was any indication. The rest of them lived long, sans health problems, as well.
Amy Alkon
at August 4, 2009 5:35 PM
> Hint: Initials are A.A., she writes an advice
> column, and just finished a book that's
> coming out in the U.S. on November 27, 2009.
Tough one... can you give some more clues... ;)
Snoopy at August 4, 2009 5:37 PM
i-hole:
A little remedial math for you. If we were to tax the top 1% of earners at 100%, we would get about 1.3 trillion dollars. For the government to completely take over health care art present costs, we're talking 3-4 trillion a year.
Where's the rest of the money supposed to come from?
And you're pretty much espousing a "duty to die". I do not wish to live in a society that finds such a thing acceptable.
If you think euthanasia is so great, I have only one thing to say:
You first.
brian at August 4, 2009 6:18 PM
Amy-
Surely, you know you are in the age bracket anybody would like to insure. The gap is from 55 to 65. If you should have any serious, or sort-of serious health issues around age 55, you are going to face monthly health insurance premiums in four digits--every month. Plus a luxury-car downpayment sized annual deductible.
Why will we have national health insurance? Actually, people like Amy will tip the balance. The Amys of the world will get to age 55 (in huge numbers now, the baby boom is turning grey), but so many are rugged individualists and self-employed. Of course, lots of us can't find steady work even if we try--and it gets rather hard after age 50, as I can attest.
So, here we are: Brave New World and all that--but those health insurance monthly premiums at $1,300 look scary.
We vote for national health insurance.
Amy, you have 10 years left. Then you will face the wall--your body will start falling apart, and Kaiser will want $900 a month. Then, the rent. Car insurance. And those unmet personal desires.
Then those boys wake you up at 2 am closing time, and ridicule your claims of taking care of a baby, as you are an "old bag." They call you "Grannie!"
That's about time gun control will make sense. Because those boys better put out or get shot. Literally.
It's a schlub's life. Waiting for you. You have one foot in now. Shopping at thrift stores. Clipping coupons to fast food joints. Home perms and color jobs. The car with the ripped Landau roof. And honking about libertarianism for a few bucks. Blogging for dollars.
But waiting for the days you can embrace that socialistic Medicare and Social Security. Home Sweet Home. Well, home, anyway.
It's a schlub's life.
i-holier-than-thou at August 4, 2009 8:44 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/the-real-deal-o.html#comment-1661152">comment from i-holier-than-thouAmy- Surely, you know you are in the age bracket anybody would like to insure. The gap is from 55 to 65. If you should have any serious, or sort-of serious health issues around age 55, you are going to face monthly health insurance premiums in four digits--every month. Plus a luxury-car downpayment sized annual deductible.
Look, I'm sorry you seem to be driven to make an ass of yourself, but there's a reason I joined what's probably the best HMO in the country, Kaiser Permanente, and it's to avoid that sort of thing. They have a flat rate. Flat rate. FLAT RATE. Meaning, if I get sick, if I stay well, I pay the same price. Same price. SAME PRICE.
Once again, I chose my health care very, very carefully, to avoid what you're talking about above. Flat rate. Flat rate. Flat rate. That's what I pay. Plus $25 for office visits and $25-30 for prescriptions. I've been with Kaiser since my 20s, and intend to stay with them.
Googled the flat rate thing, and here's another person talking about it:
http://parents.berkeley.edu/recommend/insurance/kaiservshmo.html
Amy Alkon
at August 4, 2009 9:10 PM
Look, I'm sorry you seem to be driven to make an ass of yourself - Amy to i-haveastickinmy-asshole
I'm not, the douchebag is entertaining.
lujlp at August 4, 2009 9:34 PM
If you should have any serious, or sort-of serious health issues around age 55, you are going to face monthly health insurance premiums in four digits
Not sure where you're getting your numbers, I-hole, but you need to shop a little harder. I'm 60, with blood pressure and cholesterol issues for which I take four prescription meds, and my health insurance costs $537 a month. And that's going down to $318 since I just switched to Kaiser. My wife, who's 56 with no medical issues, pays $142.
Rex Little at August 5, 2009 1:13 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/the-real-deal-o.html#comment-1661185">comment from Rex LittleCongrats on switching, Rex. And those who know little about actual cost of health care should try spouting off less -- and maybe even switching to Kaiser.
PS If I e-mail my doctor with a question, she typically e-mails me back in about an hour. Free of charge!
Amy Alkon
at August 5, 2009 1:30 AM
We don't have enough rich and middle class people to pay for anything that costs 10 percent of GDP. Total tax revenues are around 18% of GDP (regardless of rate, interestingly) so you're talking more than half of the federal budget. Good luck getting Congress to cut the military etc.
People who want to receive timely, quality care will continue to pay for it like they do now, in addition to whatever taxes they have to pay for a nationalized system. The only way that won't happen is if the gov't prohibits it. Is that what you advocate?
Pseudonym at August 5, 2009 5:30 AM
Amy, what if you're out of state or out of country, where Kaiser doesn't have facilities; do they cover your treatment there?
kishke at August 5, 2009 6:49 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/the-real-deal-o.html#comment-1661208">comment from kishkeYes.
Of course, this doesn't mean you get to go to the dermatologist in France while on vacation and have him check your moles. It's if you have an emergency while out of their coverage area.
Amy Alkon
at August 5, 2009 6:52 AM
You need to consider what state you are in. Kaiser is not available where I live (the only way is if say I worked for a large company based in L.A. and had small office here and they took out a policy that covered all employees).
The cheapest non-catestrophic insurance I could find last year was about $600/month. The cheapest was $350/month with a $10,000 deductable and a $500,000 max benefit. I don't know what I will be able to do once I fall off my former employer's plan - but right now it is clearly the best option.
The big HMO in this state is know as "Death Valley" because they are not very good.
Former Banker at August 5, 2009 2:22 PM
"And oh, stop the whining. Life is not fair. Maybe you pay more taxes. Boo-hoo. Get over it."
Let me fix that for you:
Oh, and stop the whining. Life is not fair. Maybe you pay more for your health insurance. Boo-Hoo. Get over it.
momof4 at August 6, 2009 8:09 AM
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