Three years ago or so when my Dad was being treated at the local hospital I was astounded at how big the wheelchairs were. I hadn't been there since his back surgery in 1979. He looked like a child sitting in a grown-up seat.

Larger also were the staff...I'd say half the nurses are very overweight. The patients however, are much bigger. I've read lately that some companies are considering changing the dimensions of the MRI machines and CAT scanners they make because there are people who cannot fit into the present machines. THAT blows me away.

I guess overeating/food dependency is hard to kick. Most of my mother's health problems are from being overweight and then obese from her late 30s on. A knee replacement and the other knee needing to be done, NASH or fatty liver disease for which she goes to the hospital once a week for paracentesis, hip pain, COPD...but there was little help when she was younger for people with binging disorders, I'd assume more help is out there these days. I can't think that the ice cream and candy etc can possibly be worth all that. It's not by accident that 2 out of 3 of her kids are gym rats.

Just another reason I feel absolutely no empathy for those who deliberately make themselves hard to look at.

I wonder if anyone has made the pay your way argument to anyone in that little "gainer" subculture.

And yet, under the plan that Obama is now calling "my plan", it will be forbidden for insurance companies to differentiate between healthy and unhealthy people in the price they charge for the coverage we will be required to purchase, unless we're willing to pay stiff penalties to the IRS.

I started taking classes at a local university to update my job skills. I was shocked at how heavy these young people are. When I started college back in 1978, there were very few obese students. I had asumed I was seeing more heavy people because I was mostly around older people.

My kids are on the lean side of normal. They know they can have only limited junk-snacks. Some of their friends won't eat apples or cheese and crackers. If it isn't deep fried or covered in sugar they don't see it as food.

My mom is a nurse. She used to work on the cardiac floor and eventually had to stop because it messed up her back (dislocated something-or-other and it pinched a nerve - she was in bed for A MONTH! And my mom NEVER complains about pain!!). She'd have to move really heavy people (a lot of patients who have cardiac issues tend to eat poorly and clog up their arteries and be overweight) to change their bedpans, sheets or help them get up.

Now she's in labor and delivery triage. The fatter women are a lot less pleasant to deliver - you have to hold their fat away so the baby can get out. Also, since they already have mostly bad eating habits they gain a lot during pregnancy, which can contribute to personal hygiene issues, as it's hard to clean the many folds of skin "down there" when you can barely reach around your belly.

And before anyone jumps on me, I'm not saying that fat people are all dirty. I'm saying that obese people have certain hygiene requirements that don't exist for thin people and being preg on top of that makes it harder to attend to...think about the people who have to be face-to-, well, face-to-thigh with that. Eh.

Also, fatter women tend to have fatter babies (fatter isn't necessarily better, it can make delivery really hard, for starters) and are at a much higher risk for getting diabetes, chronic hypertension (leading to slower fetal development) and preeclampsia. If a woman becomes preeclamptic she must deliver the baby immediately, or risk death to her and the child...even if this means a preemie. Being fat can also contribute to problems conceiving in the first place. A preemie in the hospital for a week or so, plus the drugs to stabilize the mom? = $$$$$$.

Weight isn't just a cosmetic issues. It's a real medical problem. Is it really worth risking your CHILD'S health? I'd say no.
And honestly, is over-processed shit really that great? I love me some Cheetos every now and then but electric orange "corn" puffs everyday? It's just pure pollution.

Oh Gretchen, I think I almost threw up reading "you have to hold their fat away so the baby can get out." and the rest of your comment. Your poor mom! Yikes!

I absolutely agree with Amy if you decide to be obsese then you should have to pay for all of the additional expenses. And yes, being obese is a decision. These people have decided to eat crap and to not do anything more strenous than opening a bag of Fritos.

I also think if we're going to claim that it's child endagerment to leave a 9-year-old alone in a car for 30 minutes, then I think we should start arresting all of these people with obsese children. I see that as far more dangerous for children than learning that they don't need mommy or daddy to constantly watch over them.

"see that as far more dangerous for children than learning that they don't need mommy or daddy to constantly watch over them."

It is. You can't die from sitting in a well-ventilated car when it's not super hot or cold out with the doors locked. That in and of itself isn't a dangerous condition.

Being severely overweight can lead to fetal development problems, preeclampsia, type II diabetes, and fat babies. And that's not just because a 12 pound baby isn't very "cute" - a fat baby, or a fat mother means a hard delivery. An obese woman is much more likely to need a c-section as a vaginal birth of a fat baby or from a fat mother puts a lot of strain on the baby.

google "overweight pregnancy" and click on the NY Times article, should be the first hit. It has all this in there...stuff my mom has been telling me about for years and years. Fat people aren't healthy. They are more likely to have sick babies. She encourages every pregnant woman to eat the diabetic diet way. A lot of women who come in really fat might lose a few pounds after they start, even though they're pregnant, and it's not because the baby is being denied nutrients.

"You can't die from sitting in a well-ventilated car when it's not super hot or cold out with the doors locked. "

Oh, but you can. You can die in a car with open cracked windows when it's 70 outside. That's not really hot. ]

ICK in having to take care of really fat people. They damn sure should have to pay extra. Why should I pay for their McD's habit?

mof4: I agree. I was trying to get at the fact that the kids in the car were probably not in real danger. If I'm not mistaken, the temperature wasn't a contributing factor to the idiot cop determining the kids were in danger and needed to be arrested. Being in a car isn't dangerous in and of itself unless there are other contributing factors, like heat or being parked outside a convicted child molestor's house. But being really obese is, in fact, actually a dangerous thing.

If we're going to have cops arresting parents for leaving kids in car (which, as I tried to outline, isn't inherently dangerous) it would logically follow we arrest people for being fat and trying to reproduce (which is inherently dangerous).

But alas we tend to frown on telling people what to do with their own bodies. I agree it's a bad thing to control - but must we pay for the choices of these folks? I think we shouldn't.

I'm all sorts of down with parents of obese kids getting them taken away. We wouldn't let a parent let them 9 year old smoke, would we?

I finally made it into nursing school and can tell you; management does not want nurses lifting patients anymore! If you do, you're busted. This workplace injury trend has led to Hoyer and Sera mechanical lifts, and each one is suited to the patients' level of dependence (or lack thereof). Only problems are: breaking the habit for the nurses who've been doing it the old way for so long, and getting them to start using the equipment. Also, some patients may not like them, they feel vulnerable. Sorry, but I'm only 5'4", one hundred (mumble)ty five pounds. I can't lift and support a 275 pound man into the bathroom. I'm more likely to drop him than the lift is. And there are more people available in my size than the aforementioned Hulk Hogan proportions who are entering nursing.

I'm all sorts of down with parents of obese kids getting them taken away.

I have mixed feelings about sending a kid into foster care over obesity. There are some wonderful foster parents, but many others are horrible. Does pulling a 200 lb 9 year old out of his house and putting him in a group home really do much positive for his physical and emotional well being? I would much prefer that the parents be given the opportunity to fix the problem with education and conscripted family wide diets and leave removing the child from the home as a last resort.

-Julie

Mom of 4,
Who decides what the definition of "obese" is? About 10 - 15 years ago the definition was changed and look! Obesity levels skyrocketed! Horrors! All over the news! Oddly enough the numbers have leveled out since then but that's not something you hear much about.

Now take a 9 year old. If the kid is anything like mine was she/he will pudge out and then shoot up. At the pudge stage she/he will be obese per caliper test and growth chart. Are you going to take that kid? And put them where?

The caliper test is about as accurate as reading tea leaves. The growth charts are a bad joke. Electronically measured fat percentage is accurate if the machine is keep calibrated but I have yet to see one in a doctors office. Although that begs the question..who came up with the percentage numbers you are supposed to have?

Various governments (US, England, Australian) have tried intervention in kids eating habits. We don't hear about the results (properly studied results) because the result (in all cases) shows that the intervention was a waste of money. We don't hear good health news because it isn't published. We don't hear the actual results of various studies because only the press release is published. And the press release can (and often does) have a different conclusion that what the study actually found.

The fact that people who are as big around as they are tall damage the nurses trying to help them is a well duh! statement. So is the fact that they will have health problems.

The studies showing that obese cost more to care for and that they have more health problems are not only questionable but they play around with the definitions. Are they talking about societies view of obese or the medical view? There is a HUGE difference.

Oh - and not all obese have a McD habit. and not all diabetics are obese. and I thought conservatives wanted LESS government intrusion?

I'd like to propose that food stamps shouldn't cover junk foods, sweets, white bread, etc. While I don't feel like having an obese child is neccessarily abuse, it could def. be a sign of neglect.

On to fat pregnant women... You only need an extra 300 calories a day while you're pregnant. The current trend amound OBs is to recommend women gain 18-30 pounds (if they're normal weight), vs the 30+ that was being recommended in the 80's-90's. I'm considered underweight, and my OB said she was fine with me gaining around 25 pounds, while my perinatal doctor friend said he'd want me to gain 30. Anyway, as far as obese women go, I believe that doctors typically recommend that they gain less than 20 pounds.

Anecdotal evidence is useless, I know. Nonetheless, regarding foster parents: there are some real charmers out there. I was close friends with a woman who was put into foster care because her father had sexually abused her. Her foster parents had successfully raise 5 or 6 other kids - they took then 2-3 years apart in age.

Turns out, they (or at least he) had a fetish for girls of a particular age. Already abused meant already used to it, wouldn't complain...

Oh, just read Gretchen's article. I was pretty close.

I'd like to propose that food stamps shouldn't cover junk foods, sweets, white bread, etc.

I like that idea. Maybe combine Food Stamps and WIC so they both are used to ensure proper nutrition of all involved.

-Julie

"Some of their friends won't eat apples or cheese and crackers. If it isn't deep fried or covered in sugar they don't see it as food."

Now that's funny - Cheese and crackers falls on my "limit intake of" list. I love junk food as much as the next person, but at least I understand why it's called "junk" food.

"Who decides what the definition of "obese" is"

Much like with porn, we know it when we see it. There's a few extra pounds, and then there's can barely walk one's own weight. No amount of education will change it, these parents don't think they're feeding their kid healthy right now!

All obese people may not have a McD's habit, but they damn sure have an overeating habit. No disease, no medication, no nothing makes your body take a calorie it needs to sustain life and store it as fat. Only extra calories get stored. Period. If you can't eat as many calories as someone else, well, life's not fair. If your meds up your appetite or slow your metabolism, you need to change your eating accordingly.

@momof4: Do you really think that the obese child would be better off in a group/foster home than with their parents? We've all heard (true) horror stories from inside the foster system. I know that many of the families are good and honorable. However, many are also there to collect the money and have a new punching bag.

-Julie

Using BMI as a guide, I'm morbidly obese.

I'm 5'9", 205 pounds, with a 40" waist.

I'm not obese.

But to hear the government tell the tale, I ought not weigh more than about 170.

My doctor didn't say a thing about my weight after my last visit. I'd guess he doesn't think I'm obese either.

You may be right, Brian. Not seeing you we have to take your word on it.

I worked with a man built like Gov. Arnold in his prime. When he was in the Air Force many years ago, they concluded for his height he was too heavy. He was ordered to go to weight loss classes. When he showed up the fat little sergeant in charge told him, "Get yer arse out of here. I'll fix it."

The only way he could have lost weight was to cut out large quantities of muscle.

By the way, several of you demonstrate extreme ignorance of obesity problems. You announce, they simply need to cut back on eating. Nonsense.

Atkins Diet works for those who have qualified coaches or are able to figure it out for themselves. So do similar low carb diets. Atkins is merely a gimmick to get people to control their carb intake, and its complexity can make it hard to follow.

The reason they work is because carbs do a number of bad things to people. The worst thing they do is cause more hunger. Most of those morbidly obese people are absolutely famished, and people who don't have the problem arrogantly announce they simply need to reduce the amount of food they eat.

Four years ago, I was rather overweight, and once I read Atkins I realized I was very close to diabetes. In mid morning I was exhausted and needed a long rest. My wife asked me why I was eating all the time. I told her the obvious, which was because I was hungry all the time.

The very first day I eliminated carbs, all that fatigue and hunger was gone as if by magic. Yeah, I get hungry now when I should be hungry, but it is a different form of hunger, and is as hard to explain as explaining sex to a virgin. Normal healthy hunger can be ignored for a long time. Carb hunger half kills you.

The real reason we have so many fat people is because the morons who pass for doctors in the US have been preaching for decades to eat carbs and avoid fat in our diet. I assume they are simply stupid, but one has to at least consider the possibility they want lots of obese sick people.

We could make a bigger health care reform for free by putting to rest this hoax that fat makes you fat. And, sue C&H into oblivion just as we did the tobacco companies for doctoring research to prove their products are good for you.

When I am in the States, thanks to this insanity, I have trouble finding enough fat, and have had to resort to eating lard and butter to bring up the ratio. When I fry stuff, I add lots of Virgin Olive Oil and eat it with the food.

Mom of 4,
Crushing (spelling?) disease? Gain weight on an 1000 cal diet.

Psych meds? Zero change in diet/life style but suddenly you are 50 pounds heaver. When the doc was asked about not warning about weight gain he insisted that the meds DID NOT cause the gain.

Doctors are WAY to fond of the "if you gained weight stop eating so much/eating junk and you need to exercise more". They don't/won't believe that you ARE following the recommended diet and exercise.

When you are advocating removing children and codifying fat discrimination your definition of obesity need to be better the "I know it when I see it" AND (this is even more important) you need a effective treatment. Scientifically proven to be effective treatment. No "mega-studies" or any of that crap.

Brian,
That is what I'm talking about with the difference between medical and social views on obesity.

"Some of their friends won't eat apples or cheese and crackers"

It's my personal theory (haven't time to look into it, I will one day) that if you get used to eating huge quantities of sugar, vegetables and meat taste weird. The obese people in my family will eat any quantity of ice cream, cookies and candy...amounts that would have me shaking like a chihuahua, with no problems. Try to get them to eat broiled chicken, steak, salad...'that doesn't taste good' 'ew' etc. Cooked veggies seem to be okay, raw ones are out of the question.

The incidence of Cushing's syndrome is 1 in 500,000. Not exactly a garden variety problem. Statistics show that thyroid disorders affect 3% of the population.

Here's a link to dealing with medication-induced weight gain--

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/bipolar/2008/10/preventing-and-reversing-weight-gain-associated-with-psychiatric-medications/

Switching meds is recommended as well as cholesterol checks, diet modification and exercise recommendations.

That leaves a lot of people without an excuse. I'm sorry, but the majority of obese people eat themselves into that condition. d, if you have a medical problem, then so be it. I have no problem with people who are obese for medical reasons. However, the majority are not.

Caliper tests etc are accurate, along with body measurements (thigh,upper arm, chest waist hips etc), for calculating % of body fat. If you flunk a caliper test/measurement test, you are overweight. The BMI means next to nothing if you lift weights. My body fat is about 25%, the BMI calculation gives me 31%, 'obese'. So while I think you can safely ditch the BMI, hands-on body fat measurement tools are pretty accurate.

My mother was 225 pounds when she died, at 5'3". She was never a light woman, but she didn't eat much more than Jell-O over the last six months -- nothing more than a feeding tube over the last 12 weeks. The weight was mostly big-ass tumor, abscess and swelling. Being sick is a bitch.

I beg to differ, crella. I've a sweet tooth. But one can eat only so much sugar. If I let myself, I could eat half a sack of cookies but I'd feel sick as hell after. And I like veggies both raw and cooked. And I also can't live without meat.

I count calories to maintain my weight. Have been for years and it works so amazingly well that I'm convinced of the simple math of calories in, calories out. I burn about 2,200 calories a day. A 220 calorie candy bar or a handful of hard candy (this is a good trick if you've a sweet tooth, satisfies and last longer, you can't inhale it like you can half a bag of cookies) is not going to do in my weight.

"I beg to differ, crella. I've a sweet tooth. But one can eat only so much sugar."

Well as I said, it's a theory :-D

However, as you said, you can only eat so much...my obese rellies tuck away a pound of candy (jelly beans, mint leaves, orange slices, See's) in an evening watching TV, which for me is beyond the pale.

All the plans that have excellent science backing them up are missing a major thing (based on the ones I've seen): actual food.

They tell you how your body reacts to X and why you should eat more Y in this proportion. But tell me how to do it explicitly for my height and activity level. Don't just give me a set of rules. I have a full arsenal of recipes that I turn to...a lot of people do. It's easier to shop that way and cook during a hectic week.

I need NEW recipes. And I fucking hate fish so the next diet that tries to make me eat fish gets the middle finger. These scientists need to get together with a chef with a nutrition background (who can grasp the science part) and develop an enormous cookbook with breakfast, lunch, dinner and snack options that you can pick and choose from to build a really satisfying plan.

I am carrying around about 5-10 lbs. right now that I don't want to (because I'd like to be more ripped). I know how to do it in theory but I'm a huge foodie. It is hard to find something that satisfies my inner food snob that demands complex, interesting foods while also sticking to the science.

One hopeful cookbook I am looking into: Gourmet Nutrition II. I have number one but only liked about 5 things from it.