During various parts of the year I participate in Renaissance Faiires here in southern california.Those of us near the main gate are amazed at the 6 to 12year old "Pirate Hookers" and "Pirate Strippers" that come to the faires with their parents approval. Apparantly,parenting now means that as long as you approve it,its ok no matter how slutty your little snowflake looks.

While having no insights about this particular issue, I'm going to steal the "little snowflake" thing.

(No two are the same, you know... )

When my 16 year old was 6, my now Ex and I used to have a running battle over her wardrobe. He thought dressing her up as a prosti-tot was "cute", and I was horrified that my baby wasn't allowed to be a baby. I threw away the hooker clothes and replaced them repeatedly, and honestly, I don't think she cared, it was her Dad. Which is part of why he's an Ex....

there are vastly different takes on this stuff, but teaching the kid what is sensible is the best way... my daughter wears skirts that her mom makes her wear, although appropriate for a 10 year old... mid calf or lower. When she's over at my place, she totally ditches them for pants, because we go hiking and things like that. I think she will find a balance of practicality as she gets older...

But. The dress up thing used to be just that... kid steals her moms shoes and plays. Once they commoditized that by making stuff that you could by actutally in their own size? That changed the game. It wasn't an illusion of adult dress, but a small copy of it. If it is not well presented by a parent, you get a mini-me version of an adult. Seems like that would be a bad idea.

Rebellious kids are also about picking battles, and setting boundaries. If you don't do it early, it can be trouble. But if you go too far, the kid sneaks out of her house with a spare change in her backpack... and at highschool she looks like she gets paid for her services. I live near a HS and see it every day. Except for the part where I can't tell if they snuck out or their parents don't care...

Our culture has been sending a LOT of strange and conflicting signals to it's children, and young adults, this is just one.

Giggle test - literally:

Ask around. You laugh at the antics of Kelly Bundy. Do you want your daughter to do that stuff?

This brings to mind some television show my mother happened upon while channel surfing. It appeared a show about kids in those four to eight year old beauty pageants.

I cannot believe we still have those things. Those parents should be charged with child abuse for subjecting their children to that. We have enough perverts in this country who are only too glad to see our children as sex objects. Why leave nothing to their imagination? It's sick and disgusting.

Rebellious kids are also about picking battles, and setting boundaries. If you don't do it early, it can be trouble. But if you go too far, the kid sneaks out of her house with a spare change in her backpack... and at highschool she looks like she gets paid for her services.

Yep. While I'm appalled at the trend of creating high-heeled shoes for small girls, I don't think the first mom in the story is terrible for allowing her daughter to continue to wear one pair of shoes, at home, that she wore on a special occasion. The kid'll outgrow them and go on; plus, I bet she likes them in large part because she liked being a flower girl. Now, my feelings about the bride who picked out the shoes are a bit different (at least, that was my interpretation of the article). It's part of a growing trend -- more and more flower girl dresses look like small versions of adult dresses. When I recently got hitched, one of the hardest type of clothing to find was little-boy ring bearer clothing -- i.e., no small tuxes -- in a bigger-than-toddler size. Our flower girl was dressed like a little girl, not a miniature bridesmaid. I'm not sure her parents would still be speaking to me if I'd asked to have her wear heels.

I don't think the first mom in the story is terrible for allowing her daughter to continue to wear one pair of shoes, at home, that she wore on a special occasion.

I just don't think you get kids used to wearing heels at 6.

I think you need to have divisions between being a kid and being an adult and being the stern mom. I see how good it is for my neighbors' kids that they hear no when appropriate. The little girl, who's 5, will sometimes interrupt her mother while her mother and I are talking. Her mother tells her something like, "I'm saying something to Amy" or "Amy's saying something," and that she'll answer her question as soon as she or I finish. And she does.

The stores I see at the mall that turn your little snowflakes into prostitots frighten me, but then again, I guess I don't understand, I don't have kids... but seriously it looks like they are training them... preparing them to be shipped off to Thailand or something. It's gross.

Heh. My girls are just the opposite of the prostitots - they wonder why they can't find regular-waist pants rather than those low-cut hip huggers! Number 2 is constantly complaining about her pants being "too low" at the waist. She wears kind of longish t-shirts to compensate. And both my girls HATE high heel shoes. They love their sneakers and flats! They do wear dresses on occasion (school dances, etc.) but prefer pants (jeans mostly) most of the time. (I remember when we (girls) weren't even allowed to wear pants to school. You know, back in the stone age? In the 60s.)
My girls have even made comments about some of their friends "dressing like hookers"! Cracks me up. Most of the girls they hang with dress kind of conservatively, but one or 2 like to show off what they've got, and plaster on the make-up with a trowel. Both of them have started getting into make-up a little, blush and some mascara, but they're in high school, so it's appropriate. It bothers me when I see moms pushing their younger girls to wear make-up and dress like little tarts. What the hell are they thinking?

My 3 year old has little princess plastic dress-up shoes that are heels, she wears all over the house with her cinderella dress. I don't see the problem with it. I have a problem with the bride. In the house, playing, as dress-up, sure. Out at a wedding? No. The mom should have said no then.

My girls wear sneakers to school, and if they want to wear a dress or skirt, they have to wear bike shorts or leggings underneath. We don't do clothing with bratty sayings, and don't get me started on the little sweatpants with "cute" on the butt. Ick.

Flynne-they make and sell little cotton stretchy tubes of fabric, that you wear around your waist with low-cut pants, it covers from your hips up, and looks like a layered undershirt with whatever top you wear, and keeps the butt form peeking out. Wish I could remember the name, I saw them online...

Thanks, M4,that sounds like a good idea, I'll look into it!

Kat in post #3 must have had a way out there ex.

When I go to the stores I have seen girls between the ages of 7-14 dressed inappropriately. They are always with their mothers. Some have shorts, pants or sweats with glitter writing on the butts,
that say things like"Hot," "Sexy," "Juicy," "Boy Crazy," etc...
None of my guy friends think it is appropriate that their daughters wear this stuff and don't buy them this stuff. The mom's think it's cute.

My ex bought her 7 yr old daughter and her 10 yr old step daughter hooker boots. Many people, in my experience mostly women, justify it by saying- if they sell it I can buy it. Or the always justifiable "its cute."

My daughter who is now 7 has gotten 2 or 3 Little Bratz dolls for Christmas and/or a birthday. My friend Elizabeth call them little hooker dolls.
These little hooker dolls conveniently found their way into my garbage- never to be seen again.

Thanks for bringing this up Amy. Definitely a topic that needs to be brought up.

I'm reminded of when our daughter, now 13, used to have a yearly combination Halloween/birthday party, since she was born on October 30th (1 hour and 8 minutes before Halloween, FTR), before she decided she preferred spa-themed parties. Hubby and I were always stunned at how revealing some of the girls' costumes were -- kids from 8 to 10 years old were wearing slinky catsuits with revealing cut-outs in places that would even give grownups pause. We didn't say anything, since we didn't feel it was our place to tell other people's kids how to dress. Compared to the other girls, our daughter looked positively demure in her pink ballerina outfit.

Bratz- i HATE THEM!! They will never enter my house.

My daughter is 13 and thankfully conservative in her taste for clothing. I will never forget when she was about 8 going into a children's shoe store and seeing thigh high boots with heels. I walked out. I went into Abercrombie once because I felt bad she was the only kid dressed primarily from Target. I asked the salesperson if they had any sweats that didn't have something written across the ass. He looked down his nose at me and told me he'd be over there if I decided I needed help. And forget Halloween costumes. I don't aspire for my daughter to be a stripper one day though I wonder if maybe I should rethink that and tell her the women that get ahead sleep with celebrities and sell their stories. Either way, its terrible what passes for kid's clothing in the stores.

I kept all of my "forbidden" clothing at school and changed when I got there. Did the same thing with makeup when I was forbidden to wear it in junior high.

I'm glad I can sew, as my girls will not wear little hooker wear. My youngest wore a pink lab coat for Halloween, complete with glow sticks in test tubes for the mad scientist look. I have a terrible time finding non-slutty stuff for my teen.

I have told several store owners as I was walking out without buying anything why I considered none of their stuff appropriate for my kids. Someone is buying this junk, so they are not likely to listen to me.

The sweatpants with the sayings across the ass are just obnoxious! WHY would you let your kid wear pants that ENCOURAGE people to look at her ass? I just don't get it. Especially when these seem to be the same mothers who think there's a child molester around every corner. And yes, I KNOW that dressing like a hooker is not "asking for it" but come on - dressing up a fourteen-year-old as a twenty-year-old is asking for trouble.

The "little hooker" look really needs to die a swift and painful death. And this whole "I quit fighting" crap from the mother - parenting FAIL.

I don't see the high heel thing as that big a deal. Most little kids go through a phase where they just HAVE to have the same clothes, food, book, etc on a daily basis. When I was 4 and 5 years old, I insisted on wearing dresses and tights every single day, and it didn't hurt me any. And I was 13, I wore hooker eye makeup to school most days. I wasn't trying to look slutty-I literally just didn't know how to apply makeup, and by high school I was wearing a minimum once I learned to apply properly. In retrospect, I'm glad my mom didn't make a big deal of it because I grew out of the habit anyway and it would have been a silly battle to fight every morning.

On the other hand, I think the oversexualized clothing for little girls is pretty awful. I've walked by stores in the mall where a birthday party of 5 and 6 year old girls are learning to bellydance in midriff shirts and makeup right in the store window, and I can't imagine letting my kid be exposed like that. I think at-home dress-up is basically harmless but buying revealing clothing meant to be worn on an everyday basis is a bad idea.

And I was 13, I wore hooker eye makeup to school most days. I wasn't trying to look slutty-I literally just didn't know how to apply makeup,

If you weren't dressed full-on streetwalker, then you just look like a little girl who went heavy on the Maybelline.

I wore socks in my bra in junior high school. My breast size varied daily, from flat (me, back then--things have changed considerably since then!) to a lumpy 28 DDD to a lumpy 28 C with one lumpy C-minus. We all make fashion errors. But, there's a word more parents need to learn and it's "NO."

I haven't watched it but- most disgusting show from seeing the promos- Toddlers and Tiaras.

When I was 14, my mother took me to Macy's and had the woman behind the makeup counter show me how to apply eyeshadow, blush, lipstick and foundation. We bought a couple high-priced items, then went to the local store for a few more things.

It was definitely one of her smoother moves in preventing me from looking like a wee hooker.

"I don't see the high heel thing as that big a deal. Most little kids go through a phase where they just HAVE to have the same clothes, food, book, etc on a daily basis. When I was 4 and 5 years old, I insisted on wearing dresses and tights every single day, and it didn't hurt me any."

I don't like the "little hooker" look either, but I also don't believe that a girl will become a hooker just because she falls in love with a pair of heeled shoes at age 6. Very few girls become hookers, and I'm pretty sure those who do have other issues beyond wardrobe.

As a parent of a teen girl, I see no correlation at all between what she wore at age 6 and what she wears now. She was girly girly then, loved heels and dressup - did dance class and recitals where they were mandated to wear makeup, even at age 4 (teacher required it if you were going to be on stage). The dance outfits were more provocative than I liked too, but she was an amazing dancer and performing gave her such confidence. I worried about it, but I'm glad I didn't obesess over it.

Today, she wears jeans, Ts, hoodies, flats and almost never any makeup. I guess as an "old" parent, I've learned to relax more over these things.

That mom is just picking her battles. She doesn't allow them at school. It's silly to "forbid" the heels altogether because you think they'll have some lasting, immoral effect. They won't.

One of the most fascinating features of society, to me, is taboos - how they're developed, how they change, etc.

As I have pointed out to many a fellow sailor, the babe in the centerfold is probably not anything like your imaginings.
Also, we disregard nudity outside a burning home, find it amusing in some public places and offensive at others; the bikini, mrely daring at the beach, is considered a real risk and/or obscene two blocks inland.

And, of course, the beautiful have different privileges in this issue, as well as burdens, than the ordinary, or plain.

With appearances, the effect on the audience has to be considered every bit as much as the effect on the center of attention, because the audience can really get out of hand - not just be offended.

>>As a parent of a teen girl, I see no correlation at all between what she wore at age 6 and what she wears now.

Exactly, lovelysoul.

If there was a correlation with later fashion choices, 90% of young men would dress permanently as cowboys!

Though I thoroughly dislike the look of wee girls in teeny high heels, that's just my taste. I think bald babies with bows attached to their downy heads look like hideous fleshy Easter eggs - but I keep quiet in public about that too.

Thanks, Jody. That's a funny image - grown men in cowboy outfits (though I guess there are real cowboys some places).

One of my friend's sons insisted on wearing army fatigues all through 3rd grade. A lot of the other moms would "tsk tsk" and put her down, but, alas, her son did not grow up to be a soldier or assassin.

There has been a shift against parents forcing their will on children in petty areas like clothing. When my son was in Montessori, the teacher encouraged me to let him to wear whatever he wanted, even if he came to school looking silly. The whole Montessori method is based on kids developing independence and having choices. Allowing them to pick out their own clothes, within reason, is considered a good thing now, whereas, in our parent's day, it wasn't viewed positively.

From the Marie Montessori method:

"children as competent beings, encouraged to make maximal decisions"

I'm pretty sure Marie Montessori would've applauded, not condemned, this mom's decision to let her daughter choose those shoes.

The truth is there is really no correlation between bossing a child around, being super-strict, and getting a good outcome. In fact, quite the reverse, usually. The more mastery and autonomy the child feels over his/her environment and life choices, the better the outcome.

"The efficacy of Montessori teaching methods has most recently been demonstrated by the results of a study published in the US journal, Science (29 September 2006)[9] which indicates that Montessori children have improved behavioral and academic skills compared with a control group from the mainstream system. The authors concluded that 'when strictly implemented, Montessori education fosters social and academic skills that are equal or superior to those fostered by a pool of other types of schools.'"

"The more mastery and autonomy the child feels over his/her environment and life choices, the better the outcome."

I suggest this is true only if a lesson is learned.

Many adults, presumably beyond wardrobe choices and thus dressing themselves, are totally at sea about their real level of "mastery" over their environment. Check the absurd arguments about gun possession, TSA searches, etc.

My daughter was a flower girl--she wore ballet slippers. Who needs to buy heels for a 6 yr old?

Parenting tips from Katie Holmes? RONTFLMAO!
And so on.

We have to look at another component to this. Children's feet are getting larger. I currently wear a 3.5-4 sized shoe. It used to be a 5.5-6. (This has only happened in my observation within the past few years) What happened? Kids are getting much taller and consequently have much larger feet. Stores have 'vanity changed' the shoe sizes. I can tell you that my feet haven't shrunk, however I'm usually shopping for shoes with 8-10 year olds. So kids are wearing shoe sizes that adults are also currently wearing. Because of that they are making adult type shoes attempting to market them to the adults, and the parents aren't smart enough to see the difference.

-Julie

I think there's a huge difference between a kid who loves dressing up at home and the parents who allow or encourage the inappropriate clothing in public. My sisters and I had a basket of dress up clothes with some pretty outrageous stuff (fur stoles, strappy heels that were far too big, etc) that we'd get at thrift stores and were allowed to wear at home while PLAYING dress up. We understood that when we left the house, it was time to wear "real" clothes. If you watch shows like that Toddlers and Tiaras, you'll notice that it's almost ALWAYS the mother (or, in some cases, what seems like a closeted father) encouraging the "full glitz" (JonBenet)look, full makeup, heels, exotic swimwear, etc., and that the glitzier ones always win. There was a kid on one episode whose mother wouldn't let her go full glitz--put her in a nice little party dress and flat Mary Janes for the formalwear portion, and that kid didn't win anything because the judges didn't think her attire was "pageant appropriate" (the mother was pissed, saying it may not have been pageant appropriate, but it was "child appropriate"--at least there's hope for that kid, anyway). I'd worry much more about parents who encourage the glitz than the ones who allow their daughter dress up time in the privacy of their home.

All this B.S. really, does, though, is makes me glad I have a son.

"the effect on the audience has to be considered every bit as much as the effect on the center of attention..." Radwaste @10:31

Raquel Welch seems to be having quite an effect on these lucky GIs in Da Nang:

http://www.vietnampix.com/hippie2.htm

"At least he had sweet dreams that night in Vietnam" Indeed!

I always thought that was a very brave & noble thing for her & Ann-Margret to do.

I don't like the "little hooker" look either, but I also don't believe that a girl will become a hooker just because she falls in love with a pair of heeled shoes at age 6.

I don't think anybody else believes that either. The risk I'm most concerned about regarding the "little hooker" look is that girls will grow up thinking it's normal to dress in a way that communicates their willingness to do things that they are not actually willing to do.

I think young women underestimate the messages that their choice of clothing sends, sometimes tragically.

I'm concerned about that too, Pseudonym. Yet, I also agree with Radwaste's point that it all depends on context.

I live in FL, where none of us wear much clothes, but the kids, especially, walk around in bikini tops (girls) and shorts. The boys are often shirtless. So, it was never really an option for me to tell my daughter or son that they couldn't show too much skin.

Yet, here, if someone sees a girl in a midriff bearing or bikini top, they don't necessarily perceive that she's sending the message that she's slutty. They perceive that she's sending the message that it's freaking hot.

That said, I never allowed those hideous shorts with words on the butt....or Bratz dolls. We have to hold these industries accountable too. I honestly don't believe parents went to the toy companies and said what we need is a slutty, spoiled, obnoxious doll for our young girls to play with.

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