Just read through Lori's article-gotta wonder how the guys on here feel about this. I can't imagine anyone is doing cartwheels over the thought of being "settled" for. Something about this line especially gets me,

"So if you rarely see your husband—but he’s a decent guy who takes out the trash and sets up the baby gear, and he provides a second income that allows you to spend time with your child instead of working 60 hours a week to support a family on your own—how much does it matter whether the guy you marry is The One?"

Basically, she's saying that husbands are interchangeable: all you need is someone with a penis who takes out the trash and earns a paycheck. If you read further on, she's suggests an ideal hubby might not even be heterosexual! (One has to wonder how the guy feels about entering a marriage that doesn't even match his sexual orientation)

I'm curious at to what her expectations are for a husband: is he supposed to worship the ground she walks on, or he just settling too? It's either incredibly narcisstic or incredibly depressing, and either way is not an inspiring portrayal of what a relationship should be.

What exactly is meant by "settling"? The word's dashed off so briskly in the blog post... I mean, do all women agree that if you just presume a certain fate will come to you, and you pretend long enough and hard enough, then it certainly will?... But that if you blink and decide that there might be more to it than that, the magical outcome will vanish in a puff of pixie powder?

I honestly wouldn't know: Isn't a happy marriage about sizing up a partner thoughtfully, investing wholeheartedly, and helping that person in the ways which you can (where they want to be helped), while understanding that some rankling irritations will last a lifetime (though they may well originate in one's own weak heart and not that of the partner)?

Do women who chatter about "settling" want more from a relationship than that? Or less? Do they know anyone who's been brought deep and enduring comfort from a marriage through any other approach?

It sometimes seems like when feminism righteously resolved to rid young women of the Disney fantasies of Prince Charming, the replacement daydreams were every bit as narcissistic and improbable.
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Reviewing, Shannon used the word narcissistic too.

I love, love commenting without following the links.

I think it comes down to separating the fantasy from the reality - and facing it and being okay with it.

Many people who are married forever have learned what Gottlieb is saying a long time ago. They're together after 20+ years because they want to be, even if they could have some burning passionate-filled relationship with a newer person. Their priorities, benefits received and respect for their partner align in such a way that being married, and dealing with some of the drudgery that it may include, far outweighs the negative. Most married people get this. Most single 30+ year olds, *who want to be married*, don't get it. They're looking for something that doesn't necessarily exist.

Then they suddenly have an epiphany: they aren't going to wind up with some stud who cooks, cleans, makes tons of money and worships the ground they walk on 24/7 and who they will be totally smitten for forever. They realign their priorities: children; travel partner; dinner and theater companion; whatever, and realize that no one is perfectly able to fulfill every single item on their checklist. Maybe they can forgo "six pack and thick head of hair" for "is really good with kids, makes me laugh when shit gets tough".

Again. People in good relationships, who want the long term thing, get it. They live it and work at it every day. "Settling" sounds bad because it implies you're with a partner that you can do better than. But these woman aren't doing better, b/c they can't necessarily do better b/c their expectations are not based in reality. That seems to be Gottliebs point...

I didn't read the book, nor the articles, but I see the point. There are three billion women in the world, more or less. There might even be one better than Mrs D. I won't live long enough to even say hello to all of them, so in a sense, I settled too.

The book might not have sold as well if it were titled "Make Up Your Mind Already."

I think Gretchen said it very well. "Settling" sounds bad. It's more about being realistic, although if that passage about the guy taking out the garbage is represenative of the whole book, I'd say she's advocating just finding ANY nice guy to settle down with.

When I was on the dating scene, one of my girfriends advised me to settle kind of like that. She basically recommended dating only ugly men with kind hearts and fat wallets. That is her dating scheme. Ugly because she thinks they won't cheat. Kind and rich for obvious reasons.

The money wasn't such a factor for me, but for awhile, I did try to date men who weren't very attractive, and it wasn't much fun. Finally, I decided there were many attractive men who were kind and faithful too, so what I was doing to myself?

You can settle in certain areas, but each of us has requirements that must be met or the relationship won't last. The trick is not to have so many requirements that you price yourself out of the market.

I think this is kind of the ultimate relationship epiphany experience. And this is what "marriage" means.

http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/article.aspx?cp-documentid=23709555

What so many people, who are miserable in their relationships, seem to realize is that it's not a fairytale and things will go wrong. Being married means you stay and work it out, even if it takes a year and it hurts a lot. You put your faith into something bigger than yourself. That article really puts it into perspective.

I think it's also worth noting the fact the author of the article saw through her husband's turmoil and felt confident he was having a personal crisis that was separate from their marriage, and that he did still love her...if someone genuinely doesn't love you, that changes things obviously. Then the choice is actually easier: How you do make it work until the kids leave the home?

Very well said Gretchen! I especially liked: "Maybe they can forgo "six pack and thick head of hair" for "is really good with kids, makes me laugh when shit gets tough".
That made me laugh and maybe think of my wonderful husband a little bit! Of course he's also kind and responsible and I can always count on him to help support his family. I think fairy tales and finding your perfect "soulmate" are silly! No relationship is going to be perfect all the time. After 8 years and kids I still feel like I picked my husband for all the right reasons!

Wow, that little girl *is* Ramona Quimby! She's perfect! I am looking forward to this movie waaay more than a childless woman ought to, but I drink the Beverly Cleary koolaid (or I did as a child), so it's great.

As for settling...well, maybe going into a relationship with lowered expectations is a good thing. I'd rather be moderately happy with moments of pure joy for the rest of my life, than on fire for ten minutes, and then disappointed and heartbroken the rest.

How many people are convinced that they've found The One, only to be divorced seven years later (and most of the time with kids to take care of)? Sometimes, you just need to separate reality from fantasy and work hard to keep a relationship afloat, rather than trying to touch the sky every day.

Accepting your partner's faults and not expecting perfection is one thing. Grabbing some random guy you don't really love to use him as a sperm bank is another. It's pathetic.

I couldn't agree more. What was the question?

The question was: How is it that feminine nature –whether under the social and commercial pressures of yesteryear or the you-must-never-settle prattle of today– seems always to assume that when the world is working correctly, life's greatest fulfillment will be rewarded as a matter of course, rather than through effort and achievement?

(Sure, men have problems too, but they're not our topic today.)

(And to be perfectly clear: Gretchen's comments are correct in all respects...)

Thanks. That's what I thought.

You look fabulous. As always.

Everyone settles.

The question is, is your priority the hot musician with a motorcycle, so you settle for someone who isn't the family man type? Or is your priority the family man type, so you settle for someone who isn't the hot musician with a motorcycle type?

Bad boys have their allure, so do good boys, and very few people can manage to have someone who is both. So it's a choice.

I know way too many women who say, "But doctors and lawyers are nerdy and boooooring...why doesn't my 23-year-old punk rocker f* buddy want to marry me???"

Gail wrote the word I was wanting to see.

Acceptance.

A person isn't a list, they are a whole other thing that isn't you. Settling is an idea that makes the assumption that there ACTUALLY IS someone out there that is perfect, you just can't find 'em or they are already taken. That is why the idea is framed as a letdown. Nobody is that, and a person who thinks of it that way should relize that he or she is also not a list.

Not to say that there aren't people who aren't really settling at all. They actually do have goals and agendas that include a Generic Partner... Their goal isn't that partner at all, but that partner as a means to an end. Once that end is achieved? "See 'ya, but make sure that check continues to clear." That actually IS settling. But if they are that disinterested, they usually just kick you out. Or if you are unlucky they make life so difficult that you leave on your own.

So, settling is a really negative way of looking at it. "Accepting" is a realization that YOUR OWN lists are impossible, and might even be missing things that you actually might find in someone else. Like accepting that a sunset is what it is. I've known a number of people [incl me] who really would like to valued for who they themselves are, rather than merely tolerated because of what they can do.

A person who settles is never actually happy, because they are still looking for a list to be fulfilled rather than a person... IMHO.

I was once more sympathetic to Gottleib, just because the criticism of her is so overwrought, until I picked up on what Shannon has noticed - her advice to 'settle' is kind of exploitative. She does seem to promote the attitude that men are substitutable.

Having read a few interviews with her, it's apparent that she's projecting a bit when she describes women generally. She's really warning women not to be like her.

But you have to give her some credit for putting her argument out there. She's certainly hit a nerve.

I loved the Ramona books as a kid, and my kids love them now-looking forward to the movie.

I married a man with lovely hair even knowing baldness runs in the family. His hair is receding, but he still is great with our kids and can make me laugh.

Acceptance is important for kids, too. Accepting my kids ADD and autism doesn't mean not teaching and expecting effort from them. I understand one will need a job that lets her move and one will be happy in a cubicle with limited contact with people-the world needs both.