Dr. Eades will be the first person to tell you that population-based studies like this are only useful for generating hypotheses that can be tested in a controlled experiment.

ie. all this tells you is that A is correlated with B. Doesn't mean that A causes B. It might well be that the women who eat carbs also do something else (eg. not get enough protein) etc.

I'm in the process of reading Eades's book and find it extremely convincing. Even to the point where, the other day, when I stopped for a fast food lunch, I pulled the bun off the burger I ate as you mentioned the other day.
It was a little messy but worth I think.

Why would there be a difference between women and men? There's something else going on here.

Life will make me dead eventually. In the meantime, fresh, homemade bread makes life good.

Go into a death prison, oh, excuse me, I mean nursing home, and see what your good life based on fresh, homemade bread is going to bring down on you.

But, of course, it's your body and your life. Have at it. Can you eat an entire loaf in one setting?

Good try, Engineer, but no cigar. Atkins proved causation with over 60,000 patients. So have others. The exact biochemistry is well established.

Actually, it is never too late. You can go ahead and eat exactly like hogs. When you finally realize your health has turned to shit, IF you have enough will power, you can still turn your health around. The problem is, a lifetime of eating like hogs is emotionally nearly impossible to change.

It isn't just cardiovascular suicide. It was established in the 1920's, that most cancers that kill us get their nutrition from glucose. A couple years ago, a study was done on TERMINAL cancer patients, so close to death that of the 25 volunteers, they started dying within 72 hours. The doctors would not let them enter the study until they ascertained that all hope was lost. Nice guys!

More said they had to have their carbs and died.

Even then, out of the 25, FIVE ARE STILL ALIVE.

The technical name for diets such as the Atkins and similar low carb diets is, a ketogenic diet. That term many years ago applied to a special diet for epileptic kids, which involved a very strict diet that almost no one could follow. Today, it includes all diets so low in carbs that the individual burns fat and not muscle, and produces ketones.

I have been on a very strict version of the diet for several years. Last night, my b.p. was 100/63. When I started I was normal for an American hog in my 60's. Fat; pre-diabetic; b.p. 135/?; simply put a hog. Eat like a hog; die like a hog.

Go back and look at Amy's picture, that is what happens to people who cut back on carbs.

Can you eat an entire loaf in one setting? ... You can go ahead and eat exactly like hogs. When you finally realize your health has turned to shit, IF you have enough will power, you can still turn your health around.

I'm not sure how liking fresh, homemade bread equals eating like a hog. Somehow, "I eat carbs" = "I shove loaves of bread into my gaping breadhole every day."

The thing about homemade bread is that it's difficult to come by. I have to find the time to make it, so I don't eat it often. And that's where we run into portion control.

A slice of fresh sourdough bread every few weeks is not going to kill me. Or maybe it will. But I'm eating a balanced diet of lots of different foods, and I do not have a weight problem or any health issues or allergies. I eat carbs, and my last blood pressure reading was 98/68, so we can all play this game.

I've never had a blood pressure problem or a cholesterol problem. True, I'm young enough that these problems may simply have not presented yet, but I have friends my age who do have these problems, and the difference between them and people who don't is that they completely overdo it.

Carbs are not the devil. Too many carbs can be harmful, but so can too much water. The fact that I eat such a wide variety of foods means I probably DO eat a low-carb diet overall, but I don't see any value in putting things like bread and candy and beer on some kind of "Bad Foods" list. I eat them when I want them.

If I live long enough, I will end up in a nursing home whatever I eat. Old age sucks even on a good diet.

I had half a doughnut this morning. I NEVER eat them! That's what I get for working out at 6:30 AM; I turn into a ravenous food monster. But I pulled myself away and will stick with the food I brought from home...

Snack: 8 cherry tomatoes and half an avocado topped w/ a little balsamic, salt and pepper. I am a total avocado addict.

Lunch: chicken fingers (they're not processed - it's actual chicken and it's not high-carb, as some of those pre-packaged ones are...I went through lots of labels to find something quick and easy I could put in the little oven at work and not consume too many carbs). I have a little container with some Frank's hot sauce, a bit of butter and garlic powder. I microwave it to get the butter melted and pour it over the cooked chicken. Mmm.

For dinner I'm making a little chickpea and chicken curry. I would love to eat it over some couscous but that would make it naughty :-(

"I'm in the process of reading Eades's book and find it extremely convincing."

I started Eades' 6 Week Cure for the Middle aged Middle just over 6 weeks ago. I am 57, never had any BP or Cholesterol problems, but I WAS carrying at least 20 extra pounds.

In 6 weeks, I have lost 17 pounds and I am at a weight I haven't seen for 30 years. I have read Protein Power and I am reading the Protein Power Lifeplan and I plan to keep eating low carb. I feel great and I do get a little hungry in the hour before meal times, but it's nothing I can't live with.

I bought some new pants with a size 34 waist a few weeks ago when the 36" ones started to slid off my hips. Now the 34" ones are loose, so I went to Value Village to buy some 33" pants. I'm not buying the expensive ones again until my waist size stabilizes.

Good god, woman, mercy! Mercy!

You are going to make me reconsider my once-a-week whole grain bagels with bacon and egg and cream cheese.

And I really, really love those things.

>>If I live long enough, I will end up in a nursing home whatever I eat. Old age sucks even on a good diet.

Most people do not end up in a nursing home.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/census/2007-09-27-nursing-homes_N.htm

Old age, for the most part, only sucks on those who do not eat and exercise properly. The exceptions are those with genetic peculiarities.

As I have written here in the mountains of Mexico, we are not used to people dying in their 60's, but my U.S. classmates in that age range are dying.

And, for a high percentage of American people, carbs are indeed the devil.

As I said, eat as much of whatever you want to eat, it's your life. Just don't say no one ever warned you.

With my low-carb diet, I did lose 20 or 30 pounds. My b.p. dropped to 106/65 or so.

Then, in October, I told my daughter-in-law that I had trouble in the US eating enough fat for my diet. She came home from the grocery store with a $5 book, EAT FAT LOSE FAT.

One of the authors was a science researcher, who some years ago did a study on heart attack patients. Those who ate saturated fats, such as coconut oil or lard, were much less likely to have another heart attack, than those who ate the vegetable oils.

When she issued her study report, she received a visit from a very angry official of the vegetable oil industry, who told her if she didn't withdraw the study, she would get no more research funds. She told him to go pound sand, and sure enough they gave her no more funds, so she went elsewhere.

She said coconut oil, especially cold pressed coconut oil, is the healthiest, with natural lard the second on the list.

I can't find pure, unaltered lard in the States in regular stores. Here we buy it by the kilo, and it is a light brown, not chemically altered. And, after a time it can get bad as good foods should.

With my breakfast egg, I add a tablespoon of natural lard in the frying pan, and eat it, egg; lard; and all. Hot lard tastes so good!

My b.p. started dropping slowly again, and bounces around 101/63.

Remember, weight itself isn't the problem. It's the fat and plaque in your veins and arteries that kills you.

>>I LOVE DOUGHNUTS! But, I love feeling as great as I do not eating them even more.

Exactly!!! It feels so good to be healthy, I don't give a hoot what I eat, if I am able to choke it down, as long as that good feeling keeps on feeling good!!!

I don't give a hoot what I eat, if I am able to choke it down, as long as that good feeling keeps on feeling good!!!

Interesting. If it doesn't taste good to me, I'm not eating it unless I'm in a social situation in which not eating it would be rude.

Eating a wide variety of tasty, well-prepared food is a huge quality-of-life issue for me, and I do realize I'm a snob about it. My husband and I love to try new recipes, explore new restaurants, etc., and cutting out carbs would be miserable for us from a social perspective. Which is why I make it a point to focus on variety and quality, and I cook most of my own meals.

So I guess my problem isn't really with a low-carb diet, since I doubt my own diet is very high in carbs. My problem is with labeling so many foods as "bad." If I were to do that, I would do nothing but crave those foods. I find it more helpful to allow those foods in moderation. Cookies are a sometimes food and all that.

I am a big fan of a low carb diet and tend to do very well by reducing my carbs considerably. However, I am not a big fan of most of these so called scientific studies and am wary of the assumptions underlying the study. As another poster mentioned correlation is not causation. If you get a number of obese older people together chances are good that a large percentage of them will have heart disease. If you get a population of skinny older people who are smokers, chances are good a large number of the smokers will have heart disease. If you get a group of people together with a genetic predisposition for heart disease together chances are good that you will see increased rates of heart disease. In a study with so few people it is hard to allow for all these other factors and narrow it down to the carbs. The chances for error are compounded when you have studies that are based on self reporting. In the words of Gregory House; "everybody lies". I think the miracle of modern existence is that in the first world at least we have eliminated so many things that used to kill people as infants, children young adults and adults under the age of 50. We are now picking around the edges to get a few more months (on average)for the octogenarians. Isabel

I'm with you, MonicaP, all the way.

I have low-carbers in one ear, low-fatters in another, a raw food acquaintance who never shuts up about how cooked food will kill you, a vegan friend or two who think meat will kill you, and one particularly irksome friend who keeps insisting everyone needs to eliminate all dairy foods. And they've all got studies and articles. Oh, boy, do they ever. It is so the opposite of fun to dine with any of them. (Actually, I don't dine with them anymore. I watch movies with them. I'm eating with people like MonicaP.) I'm very, very, very tired of food Nazis.

I eat everything and enjoy every bit of it. And yet I'm thin and extremely healthy -- and I don't annoy the shit out of all my dinner companions! (Well, at least not by telling them what not to eat.)

By the way, I have at least half a dozen scientist friends (real scientists who do their own hands-on research, not journalists with an undergraduate degree in one of the sciences, like Taubes). They are all eaters, every one of them. Not one is following a restrictive diet. (And they are not impressed with Taubes's research or credentials, by the way.) I have three doctor friends -- ditto. Oh, and two professional nutritionist friends (one with a couple books out), both omnivores. They're bigger on quinoa than I am, and they strictly limit their sugar intake, but they're not eliminating carbs (or meat or fat), and they eat a cookie once in a while. Given my own health -- and theirs! and that my 90+ year old relatives! -- I'm just. Not. Buying. The food Nazis of any stripe.

OK. That's my absolute last rant, I promise. I'm officially going to stop clicking on low carb-related threads on this blog. I'm not going to convince you or you're not going to convince me. And there are so many other more interesting topics. (That said, it was fun to reminisce about childhood breakfast cereals in the last low-carb thread.)

Monica - I am with you on food as being part of an enjoyable lifestyle. Being thin, healthy and feeling good are undoubtedly great benefits. However, I really, really, really love pizza. If I stopped my Thursday night pizza ritual I would be very sad, as it is something Dave and I look forward to all week! (Couch + our favorite pizza + red wine + our puppy + Bones and Fringe on T.V) For me, I just try to balance it out with extra exercise and low-carb eating the rest of the week.

Cooking and eating are part of my life - I love doing those two things. Coming home to prepare a yummy meal with a glass of wine and some music in the kitchen = complete bliss and relaxation. I make an effort to make low carb things and I cannot remember the last time we made pasta. But it takes more effort and planning to keep this kind of eating on track - there is a commitment there to get creative and sate both my need to cook, eat delicious food and succeed in the nutrition arenas. It's easier the more I do it.

Just sayin: as a person who gets a lot out of the preparation and consumption of food, this kind of eating takes a lot more than just flipping a switch and passing over the bread basket.

But stuff like that 1/2 doughnut I stuffed into my mouth was just bullshit. I'm kickin myself for that. I didn't even really like it and I never give into whims like that. Lame!

Well, I still believe people should eat what they want to eat.

Having said that, I find that my desire to eat certain things has changed.

I learned about the glycemic index recently, when I was looking up hard fat, because I had been feeling an odd but painless "firmness" below my rib-cage. I knew it wasn't muscle, and I'd heard the term before, so I googled "hard fat", which I learned was actually visceral fat. Lovely term, that. Vissserulll fat! Which is not uncommon among middle-aged, menopausal females, even those who are not particularly overweight.

One more damned thing to worry about. Is this what those ubiquitous belly-fat ads are about? I never looked at them. They annoy me. But anyway, as I looked up ways to get rid of it I learned about the glycemic-index and a few other things, and I've made some changes.

I don't eat in the evenings much anymore, for one thing, which has helped me sleep better; and I am doing the exercises and cutting back on the carbs.
(Cutting back, not giving up on them. I find sticking with the low-level stuff seems to be working fine.)

Which brings me back to the beginning: Eating what you want. I'm no crusader, and I love my carbs, but the old bod's starting to tell me I've had my fun, and it's time to slow down. No more midnight pizzas, unless I want to listen to my heart thumping while I try to sleep. Bummer.

Lazywebs type question here (and yes, I'm going to do the real research, but thought I'd ask it in this forum, as there are obviously a lot of folks who've made low-carb work).

I don't eat refined carbs, but I do love fruits and veggies, including "bad" veggies like corn and yams, and I occasionally eat brown rice or oatmeal.

I am training for my first marathon, and every source I read from experienced runners talks about carb loading. I will probably up my brown rice consumption before my long run days (once a week), and maybe even add something like buckwheat noodles. What do other low and no carb distance runners do? I do believe all life is balance, and a bowl of plain oatmeal is unlikely to kill me, but folks seem to be so avid on the no-carb tip, just wondered what the thinking is.

Oh low carb... My boyfriend started it last january and lost a whopping 80 pounds! Probably more! He's looking sexy and great, so I decided to try. He's of the "carbs are evil" camp, so I tried to adopt that mindset. Bad idea. I, like MonicaP, couldn't stop thinking about cookies and candy and rice krispy treats and potato chips, so I overdosed on them way more than I ever did as a balanced eater.

While I may not be dropping the pounds as quickly as my boy, by allowing some indulgences I am not in either extreme which, quite frankly, was unhealthy for me. I tried it seriously, obsessed over it, bought only low carb foods, ate low carb stuff in restaurants but still I found somewhere to slip. That kind of guilt and constantly beating myself up for being "bad" today was stressful and made me miserable.

I am sure though that if I were dying, I would find a way.

Kate,

Try finding unsweet (not artificial sweetener) drinks. I.e. iced tea with no sugar or only one packet, not three. I bet your carb (and other) cravings will drop off significantly.